Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/12

Commons Gazette 2024-12

• Currently, there are 180 sysops.
• Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) is hosting a series of community calls to help prioritize support efforts for 2025-2026 Fiscal Year. Next calls will be held at 08:00 and 16:00 UTC, 12 December 2024. Join and have your say!

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Edited by RoyZuo.

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Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RoyZuo (talk) 08:56, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I found a really strangely formatted file

This file File:Shikaumi Jinja Torii up20060426.jpg was uploaded in 2006 and appears to not have standard data formatting. Can someone fix it? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: Do you mean with regards to the Summary section? I'm afraid you'll find a tremendous amount of files that were uploaded in the early days of Commons before upload forms were standardized that look like this. I'll fix this one but this is an expansive job to correct all of them. Bastique ^{☎ let's talk!} 16:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@Bastique Yeah that is what I meant. Thank you for fixing it. Is there any proposal to make a bot that fixes these early uploaded files? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 17:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Since most of the files in question were uploaded more than 10–15 years ago, the clear answer would be obviously not, or the problem would have been corrected by now. Then there's still the problem of mass uploads that are poorly described and/or poorly categorized. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 22:49, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

CropTool not working again

I've tried to use CropTool a number of times lately. Instead of simply opening up the file, it takes me to a dialog box asking me to enter the filename. Nothing happens when I do that and press the "Go" button. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 23:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Brakes

I must be using the wrong search word, as I cant find find a category for brakes. Also File:Brakes Valve1.jpg has no category.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

See Category:Brakes Wouter (talk) 10:16, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

thanks, Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I suspect File:Brakes Valve1.jpg is in the Category:Brake master cylinders.Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

It's inappropriate to ask about this at villagepump, even more so when the category is just called "Brakes" like the section title and basically the first thing one would look for, and further even more so to remove the issue is solved template despite it obviously being solved. I suggest categories you find interesting are promoted elsewhere, if no place for that exists you could create such a category. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

disagree. I find Smiley.toerist's questions frequently interesting. Users who don't like them can read some other stuff.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 16:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

There is lots of stuff on villagepump, maybe it would be good to have a separate page about casual talk. I was not talking about Smiley.toerist's questions. I was talking about this question. Lots of people watch VP. Prototyperspective (talk) 16:31, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

How to categorize, where was a picture taken, what does it represent are useful questions.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 16:33, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Like I said 1. if the solution is pretty self-explanatory and in the section title it's not a good thread to begin with 2. it's pretty niche and doesn't need this much attention etc when there are lots of problems to solve etc 3. again, if it was a valid thread that doesn't mean it does to bloat this long page more by inappropriately removing the thread solved template when the thread is solved.

Moreover, maybe it would be a good idea to put these kinds of questions onto a separate page so this here is more focused on e.g. project-wide subjects and only get the question if it remains unsolved where it was asked earlier. Prototyperspective (talk) 16:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Re the image, I don't think that the depicted part is a brake, it looks much more like a "PZB-Fahrzeugmagnet" to me - the device over which the vehicle's train protection system communicates with the infrastructure (via electromagnetic induction). See the second image on de:Punktförmige Zugbeeinflussung (or en:Punktförmige Zugbeeinflussung) Looks like Category:Intermittent train control systems is a better fit. ~TheImaCow (talk) 18:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

May be best to ask about what this is (different question than what has been asked here) at en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains or in this case with this info at en:Talk:Punktförmige Zugbeeinflussung. Prototyperspective (talk) 18:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

You are right. It is an "Indusi" not a brake. For a magnetic track brake also the mounting would be too weak (and badly positioned outside the bogey). --тнояsтеn ⇔ 20:14, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Search for image orientation and similar parameters

I've got an interesting question: "How can I search for a specific topic and only images which have portrait orientation?"

Seems normal search is not very smart, it can at least use semantic data somewhat, but not complex parameters, including image size, aspect ratio and orientation. Is there any way to search based on media technical data as well? --grin ✎ 16:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

RIP JarrahTree

I'm sad to announce the passing of JarrahTree, an admin and regular contributor here. There's an English Wikipedia obituary of him and someone here might want to create one on Commons too. Graham87 (talk) 10:05, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm still in shock, even though I received the news a couple of hours ago. I have added JarrahTree to Commons:Deceased contributors. He will be dearly missed and my condolences go out to his family, friends and colleagues. Bidgee (talk) 10:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

rest in peace. my condolonces to his family. modern_primat ^{ඞඞඞ ----TALK} 11:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying us, Graham. My brief interactions with him were pleasant. Condolences to family and friends. Abzeronow (talk) 18:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

A type of monument that needs a category

• 
• 
• 
• 

All of the above are examples of a type of monument very common in Washington State, and which I'm sure also exists elsewhere: a cross-section of a large tree, covered by a shed. They are variously monuments to loggers who died in work accidents, monuments to the logging industry in general, or even just science/history-oriented displays of the trees themselves. We should have a category for these, but I don't know what to call it. I suspect there is no standard term, but if there is then I'd love to get it right. - Jmabel ! talk 02:16, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

waymarking.com (Internet Archive's Wayback Machine) defines them as "Tree ring displays" "Tree Growth Ring Displays", but this category also includes tree rings without sheds. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 05:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: that would apply to the last one (File:Mt Rainier Nat'l Park — Douglas Fir Historical Timeline (2021-09-04), 01.jpg) because it labels dates on the growth rings, but I think not to the others. - Jmabel ! talk 19:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel: , according to the Tyrolean website www.Kaiserhotels.com (Internet Archive's Wayback Machine) uses the term "Wooden fountain", though I'm not sure if they're talking about the display or an actual fountain made of wood, the Tyrolean hotel's wooden fountain is apparently the largest in the world, but searching for the term I only find actual fountains made of wood... According to the American website m.Wikipedia.org the one on display here is called a "cross section on exhibit", so following this website's model we could use the category title "Cross sections on exhibit", but that would also include tree cross sections not covered by a shed, so it's still more ambiguous than what you intend to categorise, but it should be a sub-category of that ("Category:Cross sections on exhibit"). You could make the broader category provisionally and then move it to the more narrowly defined category after you've discovered the correct term.

For context, I use Google Lens in Google Photos to search, I just take the image and look for similar images, if I find a term used in Google Photos I then Ecosia it for similar results, unfortunately, no name has been consistent. I can't find a name that has been repeated a lot with this specific type of image, if I can find something better using Google Lens I'll write about it here. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:31, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

The "wooden fountain" is a fountain, that's why it is called like that. Doesn't help in our case. --тнояsтеn ⇔ 20:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I asked Google Gemini to define the structure, this is all the robot told me. "The structure in the image is a cross-section of a redwood tree. - A cross-section is a slice through an object that reveals its internal structure. In this case, the cross-section shows the tree's rings, which can be used to determine its age." - Google Gemini. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I also asked Google Gemini to describe the first image for me, it said: "The image shows a large cross-section of a tree trunk displayed under a wooden shelter. - The structure is likely a tree stump display or tree stump exhibit." All these terms are a lot more ambiguous as they can include displays without the wooden shed, for example inside of a museum or on a sort of pedestal or podium. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:42, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll add Category:Cross sections of trees on exhibit so we at least have a place to gather these, even if not ideally named. We do already have Category:Cross sections of trees. - Jmabel ! talk 19:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I feel like that name would invite some confusion with tree cross sections which are on display in other contexts, like in natural history museums - the "monuments" you're describing in Washington State are something a bit different, and I feel like it does make sense to keep them separate for the moment. Perhaps Category:Logging monuments in Washington State? Omphalographer (talk) 20:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Omphalographer: I gave it subcats. Have a look. - Jmabel ! talk 20:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I also stated that, but this type of monument is not unique to the State of Washington and none of us know what the exact name of this monument is, I even asked a robot 🤖 and it kept giving me differing answers. "Category:Cross sections of trees on exhibit as monuments and memorials" is a good category that explains what these are, but it's not the exact name for this kind of monument, it's essentially the "good enough" until an expert (as in someone with the knowledge) can name these things. Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:51, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Clarification Regarding the Appearance of the "Infobox" Template

When the site is displayed in the Arabic language, the "Infobox" template is shown by default on the right side of the page. However, there may be a need to adjust this layout to appear on the left side, either to suit specific design preferences or to ensure consistency with content in other languages.-- Mohammed Qays  🗣 19:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@Mike Peel: This would be a good idea for languages that read right to left. Abzeronow (talk) 20:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there a stylesheet entry for this? The infobox already uses "mw-content-<ltr/rtl>" as appropriate, is that not also doing this? (In general it's best to post such questions at Template talk:Wikidata Infobox, BTW). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:17, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Similar images with very different licences

Hello, recently File:Emblem of the Korean National Youth Association.svg was uploaded as a PD-geometric shape. If this is true, there is a larger flag version on en.wiki at en:File:KoreanNationalYouthAssociation.jpeg. Would the PD also apply to that, and if so should that be imported here too? Pink Mrmw and NorthTension. Best, CMD (talk) 03:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

It's in PD because the party was founded 77 years ago, and Korean copyright law dictates "70 years from publication (anonymous or pseudonymous work)". Whoever uploaded that other file originally never checked this. NorthTension (talk) 03:39, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I will see about getting the flag to Commons too then. CMD (talk) 05:33, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

I set the copyright status of both files to the South Korean PD but I'm not sure if I did it correctly, would it be fine if you took a look at that? NorthTension (talk) 12:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks correct to me. CMD (talk) 15:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Minor changes coming to UploadWizard

Hi all! This week we will release some minor improvements to UploadWizard, mostly concerning the “not own work” option in the “release right” step.

More specifically, we will:

• improve slightly information about CC licenses (phab:T375494)
• add a “I don’t know” option (phab:T375790)
• fix the style of the warnings (phab:T374165)
• remove the question about “personal use” for auto-confirmed users (phab:T370104)
• remove the checkbox about media not including copyrighted material (phab:T370105)

We will also do some more revision of the texts of the “own” and “not own work” section, to give more information to the user about the options they are choosing (phab:T370103), and to match the new “describe” step style (phab:T361055). Plus, we are improving the options to choose a custom license/PD-tag (phab:T371050), and fixing some minor bugs (phab:T373567, phab:T373568 and phab:T380922).

If you have questions, suggestions or comments, please feel free to reply here or on our project’s talk page. Thanks in advance! Sannita (WMF) (talk) 11:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Temporary Accounts - introduction to the project

A temporary account notification after publishing the first edit

The Wikimedia Foundation is in the process of rolling out temporary accounts for unregistered (logged-out) editors on multiple wikis. The pilot communities have the chance to test and share comments to improve the feature before it is deployed on all wikis in mid-2025.

Temporary accounts will be used to attribute new edits made by logged-out users instead of the IP addresses. It will not be an exact replacement, though. First, temporary users will have access to some functionalities currently inaccessible for logged-out editors (like notifications). Secondly, the Wikimedia projects will continue to use IP addresses of logged-out editors behind the scenes, and experienced community members will be able to access them when necessary. This change is especially relevant to the logged-out editors and anyone who uses IP addresses when blocking users and keeping the wikis safe. Older IP addresses that were recorded before the introduction of temporary accounts on a wiki will not be modified.

We would like to invite you to read the first of a series of posts dedicated to temporary accounts. It gives an overview of the basics of the project, impact on different groups of users, and the plan for introducing the change on all wikis.

We will do our best to inform everyone impacted ahead of time. Information about temporary accounts will be available on Tech News, Diff, other blogs, different wikipages, banners, and other forms. At conferences, we or our colleagues on our behalf are inviting attendees to talk about this project. In addition, we are contacting affiliates running community support programs.

Subscribe to our new newsletter to stay close in touch. To learn more about the project, check out the FAQ and look at the latest updates. Talk to us on our project page or off-wiki. See you! NKohli (WMF) and SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:10, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

OCR of a pdf

I need to run ocr on this: File:Doctored Records In Graft Case Bare Mysterious $3,500.pdf. Google Cloud Vision OCR cannot handle a multi-page pdf, any suggestions? I want to avoid converting the file into two jpgs. If no other option, I will convert. RAN (talk) 19:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

https://ocr.wmcloud.org/?image=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F2%2F27%2FDoctored_Records_In_Graft_Case_Bare_Mysterious_%25243%252C500.pdf%2Fpage1-885px-Doctored_Records_In_Graft_Case_Bare_Mysterious_%25243%252C500.pdf.jpg&engine=google&psm=3&line_id=null

https://ocr.wmcloud.org/?image=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F2%2F27%2FDoctored_Records_In_Graft_Case_Bare_Mysterious_%25243%252C500.pdf%2Fpage2-6502px-Doctored_Records_In_Graft_Case_Bare_Mysterious_%25243%252C500.pdf.jpg&engine=google&psm=3&line_id=null

trick is, copy the link to the preview jpg and feed it to wmcloud ocr. RoyZuo (talk) 20:06, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks! The OCR from Google is amazing, I have been rerunning older news articles that had so many errors, I could not migrate them to Wikisource. It even works well on handwritten cursive, I have been uploading wills from the 1800s of people recently. Google Cloud Vision OCR still makes mistakes with columns, as do all the others. It doesn't always recognize a column and continues reading the same horizontal line from the adjacent column, but you can isolate individual columns with the included tool. --RAN (talk) 20:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Deletion of obsolete versions of a graphical file

I wish the old (previous) versions of a certain file to be deleted, since in those versions there is a graphical error making them misleading. Is it possible to use the “Nominate for deletion” option, specifying that it is the earlier versions that should be deleted? Or is the current version also deleted this way? Are there other ways to request this kind of deletion? Thanks --Antonov (talk) 09:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Antonov: Hi, We do not delete old files. Just mark it as obsolete. It can also be renamed. Yann (talk) 10:45, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

See Commons:REVDEL. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Conflicting info on sculptures

I uploaded two pictures of sculptures, you can find the images here and here. The relevant article on the Dutch Wiki states that the figure on the right is Hannibal Barkas, and the figure on the left is Philip II of Macedon, however a small number of files in the category for these sculptures (Category:Bearers of memorial tomb of Engelbert II of Nassau) are named/categorized the other way around. Can someone help me figure out which is accurate? ReneeWrites (talk) 22:15, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe the references in the Dutch article can help?
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 08:43, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi Renee. It appears that the identity of these two figures is uncertain; there's no way to know for sure who they represent, much less which one is "Hannibal" and which one is "Philip". The figures of Caesar and Regulus on the other side of the tomb are identified by inscriptions, but the inscriptions for the two in your photographs are lost, and the tradition that they represent Hannibal and Philip, although frequently repeated, does not seem to have any contemporary (i.e, 16th-century) evidence to support it. See, e.g., E. M. Kavaler, Actors Carved and Cast: Netherlandish Sculpture of the Sixteenth Century, p. 84. This is the reason for the confusion in your sources: no one really knows who these guys are, and they may not be Hannibal and Philip at all. A quick Google Books search turned up several different suggested identifications in 19th- and 20th-century sources: Hannibal and Alexander the Great, Hannibal and Scipio (which Scipio is not stated, but presumably Africanus), Achilles and Ulysses, or simply "two Grecian heroes". Like the traditional attribution to Michelangelo, which was common in the 19th century but is unanimously rejected today, this is just a story that has become attached to the tomb: maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but without more evidence, you're never going to be able to put definitive names to your photos. – Cheers, Crawdad Blues (talk) 14:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

This is a fantastic answer, thank you so much for taking the time to find all of this out, and even providing a source. ReneeWrites (talk) 15:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

to flip or not to flip

usually selfies are mirrored images, e.g. File:Grossglockner 2021 Signor Vespa.jpg (compare the lake with File:20190624.Kaiser-Franz-Joseph-Höhe, Grossglockner.-011.jpg to be sure). They show the backround mirrored. Shall we flip them or not? Shall the image be marked with {{Flopped}}, shall this be done in the root category for selfies? best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 23:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

For most photos that are flipped at the source (ex. File:Mystic river drawbridge no. 7.jpg), I think it's best to flip to the correct orientation and note that in the file description. For selfies, given how common flipping is (and how difficult it can be to tell lacking a telltale background clue), I'm not sure. I'd certainly welcome a discussion.

The specific image you linked was self-promotion by a non-contributor; I've deleted it as such. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

thanks for speedy. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 08:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

It can be really tricky to decide which version is preferable when it was a mirror image in the first place. You can always upload the "corrected" version as a separate file. - Jmabel ! talk 17:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Bot job request

I don't know where I can request a bot job on Commons, so I'm writing here. I have my own bot, but I need to manage WD statements linked with files, they aren't stored in wikitext, so standard bots can't change them. I need, for several categories, to do this job: remove one WD property and add another, with a different value for different categories. Could someine do that, or where should I request this? MBH 06:09, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@MBH: There's Commons:Bots/Requests for if you want to request the ability to do a bot edit and also Commons:Bots/Work requests for requesting that someone else use a bot to do something for you. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:09, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Prototyperspective (talk) 11:37, 12 December 2024 (UTC)