Tomchen1989

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--Baycrest (Talk) 16:14, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
	Thank you for getting File:Gansu Baiyin Ultramarathon 2021.svg up quickly! — xaosflux Talk 01:14, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Map of Tour de France 2021

Thanks for this map. But I noticed that the city of Lorient (Bretagne) has a bad spelling.

Thanks for correcting if possible.

Regards. LeoAlig (talk) 15:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Another remark.

This time it’s correct, but you may also write in French : “Andorre-la-Vieille” et “Le Pas de la Case”, instead of their corresponding names in catalan.

Friendly yours. LeoAlig (talk) 15:51, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@LeoAlig: Thanks for spotting those. Lorient corrected. The map is used in all Wikipedia language variants so I want the map to be "language neutral" where possible, I didn't use "nth" and the month names in English like previous TdF maps (File:Route of the 2020 Tour de France.png, etc.), but I didn't use "108e", "juin" in French either, although the title "Tour de France 2021" and the date format are French style. As for the towns, I think to be "language neutral", we should use the native names, so it makes sense to use Catalan for the names of the Andorran towns. However, I guess I can add a small translucent French name in parentheses below the native name since it's the organizer's language. --Tomchen1989 (talk) 18:09, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much Tomchen1989 for the corrections. I checked all the other city names and it remains a typography typo : an hyphen is missing for “Luz-Ardiden” [1]. As it is scarcely visible, it may stay that way.

Regards. LeoAlig (talk) 22:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@LeoAlig: Actually the official website of the station uses "Luz Ardiden" without hyphen in both its French and English versions. And on Google maps its French name is also "Station de Ski de Luz Ardiden" without hyphen. I think fr:Luz-Ardiden should be moved to "Luz Ardiden". What's your opinion, do you have any good source to claim otherwise? --Tomchen1989 (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

And have a look at the building in File:Luz Ardiden (Hautes-Pyrénées) 1.jpg which is the title picture of fr:Luz-Ardiden, no hyphen either. --Tomchen1989 (talk) 17:42, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to come back again, but reading a last time the map, I see that the final “s” is missing in the name of “Tours”. I guess there won’t be any other last-minute comments 🙂 ! LeoAlig (talk) 23:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@LeoAlig: Yeah thanks, corrected. --Tomchen1989 (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Tomchen1989, thanks for correcting Tours. About Luz-Ardiden, the writing of geographic places in French Wikipedia is guided by our Typographical Conventions; see the case number 6 here which asks to insert an hyphen between the words composing the place denomination. We do not take into account information which are read on visible manifestations or internet sites. LeoAlig (talk) 18:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

In French, it appears that typographic rules are rather complex sometimes: it seems that capitals are often banned and that hyphenation is often recommended in compound words. LeoAlig (talk) 18:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@LeoAlig: Mais fr:Luz-Ardiden c'est une station de ski, ça fait pas partie dans le Cas no 6 : "Noms français ou francisés d’unités administratives (pays, départements, localités…)". Le propriétaire d'une station de ski privée peut le nommer comme il veut, et apparament celui de cette station a choisi "Luz Ardiden" sans trait d'union. --Tomchen1989 (talk) 20:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

C’est quand même un endroit, géographiquement une localité, même si ce n’est pas une commune.

Il y a aussi l’exemple du fr:tunnel du Mont-Blanc (voir le cas nº 3) qui est du même type, alors qu’on écrit le fr:mont Blanc (voir le cas nº 2), là c’est la « station de Luz-Ardiden », qu’on simplifie en écrivant Luz-Ardiden. C’est la coutume typographique française (celle des spécialistes de typographie de la langue française) de mettre un trait d’union pour montrer que les deux noms propres sont indissolublement associés. Il y a des milliers d’exemples comme cela : voir aussi ici les exemples « club Jean-Moulin » et « SARL Europ-Impex », peu importe comment les écrivent les propriétaires des marques, avec ou sans trait d’union. Je connais aussi l’exemple de la page fr:fondation Marcel-Bleustein-Blanchet pour la vocation pour avoir un peu travaillé dessus (où on a mis un trait d’union après Marcel alors que la fondation ne le fait pas). Si vous voulez que je traduise mon mot en anglais, merci de me le dire. Cordialement. - LeoAlig (talk) 21:41, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@LeoAlig: Pour fr:tunnel du Mont-Blanc, tunnelmb.net utilise "tunnel du Mont-Blanc" et atmb.com prefère "tunnel du Mont Blanc", il est donc raisonnable que fr:WP:Conventions typographiques s'appliquent ici. Mais comme vous avez dit, pour fr:Fondation Marcel-Bleustein-Blanchet pour la vocation, le nom officiel est "Fondation Marcel Bleustein-Blanchet pour la vocation" sans trait d’union entre "Marcel" et "Bleustein", et il est d'après non seulement le site officiel mais aussi l'arrêté du ministre de l’intérieur et l'article « Les prix de la vocation de la fondation Marcel-Bleustein-Blanchet » de gouv.fr. Vous avec bien mis ces références dans fr:Discussion:Fondation Marcel-Bleustein-Blanchet pour la vocation, mais je ne sais pas pourquoi vous avez changé le titre « Les Prix de la Vocation de la Fondation Marcel Bleustein-Blanchet » à « Les prix de la vocation de la fondation Marcel-Bleustein-Blanchet » quand vous avez cité l'article. La fondation porte toujours le nom "Marcel Bleustein-Blanchet" quand elle dépose des marques et fait leur business. Tous les articles sur Internet utilisent "Marcel Bleustein-Blanchet" sauf Wikipédia en francais. Dans Wikipédia en anglais et de nombreuses autres Wikipédias, nom officiel ET nom commun prévalent sur en:WP:Manual of Style. Il est étonnant que Wikipédia en français fasse le contraire. --Tomchen1989 (talk) 11:44, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Non @Tomchen1989: , ce n’est pas étonnant car fr.Wikipedia privilégie les références aux ouvrages de typographie par rapport à ce qu’on trouve ailleurs : les sites de journaux, de l’administration, etc., qui souvent ne respectent pas ces règles de spécialistes qui ont réfléchi à la bonne manière d’écrire le français. C’est pourquoi le trait d’union est souvent préconisé pour éviter les ambiguïtés et les confusions. J’ai vu par exemple dans les discussions sur la typographie cet exemple connu qui ressemble à ça, si je me souviens bien : « Avez-vous fréquenté Henri-IV ? » n’a pas le même sens que « Avez-vous fréquenté Henri IV ? », parce que dans le premier cas, c’est le lycée, alors que dans le second, c’est le bon roi Henri !

On pourrait imaginer la même chose avec le trophée Jules-Verne, qui permet de bien montrer qu’on ne parle pas de l’écrivain friand de voyages (« Avez-vous remporté le trophée Jules-Verne ? » différent de « Avez-vous remporté le trophée, Jules Verne ? »).

Tout ça semble issu des traditions de la typographie et de la logique françaises.

En plus, ça permet de simplifier la rédaction de l’encyclopédie, sinon de nombreux conflits ou discussions pourraient surgir à propos de ce genre de détails, pour lesquels il vaut mieux suivre l’avis des spécialistes, qui ont écrit des livres de bonne conduite sur le sujet, permettant de comprendre correctement un texte écrit, de manière plus rapide car il y aurait moins d’ambiguïtés.

Cordialement. -LeoAlig (talk) 13:24, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

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