Talk:Druze
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Discussing changes suggested to introduction
editPlease lets discuss these points on the current Druze article versus my suggested changes :
The Druze faith is an esoteric monotheistic religion based on the teachings of several Ismaili figures like Hamza ibn-'Ali ibn-Ahmad and Al-Muqtana Baha'uddin who were influenced by Greek philosophers such as Plato ,Aristotle and Plotinus.
Versus
The Druze faith is a monotheistic and Abrahamic religion based on the teachings of high Islamic figures like Hamza ibn-'Ali ibn-Ahmad and Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, and Greek philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle.
Reason for Edit :
- The main distiction about the Druze faith is being esoteric Batini this should be mentioned
- Druze are not an Abrahamic religion but monotheist , the position of Abraham is different for the Druze than the three abrahamic faiths
- high Islamic figures is not accurate , the prophet mohammad is a high islamic figure , Hamza was a preacher , Al-Hakim was the Fatimid Caliph , a more historically accurate and appropriate description is Ismaili
and other philosophies and beliefs, creating a distinct syncretic and secretive theology that is passed on through initiation
Verus :
and secretive theology known to interpret esoterically religious scriptures, and to highlight the role of the mind and truthfulness.
Reason for Edit :
Role of the mind and truthfulness is an over simplification of the Druze theology and its the universal mind nous rather than mind as human mind
− Also
Druze are theologically distinct from Muslims due to their eclectic system of doctrines [1] such as the belief in theophany and reincarnation .[2] , although Al Azhar of Egypt recognized them in 1959 as one of the Islamic sects in the Al-Azhar Shia Fatwa. [3][4][5][6][7]
− − − The Druze were subjected to persecution due to political and religious reasons during the Fatimid, Mamluks and Ottomans rule .[8] Most recently, Druze were _targeted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and Al-Qaeda[9] in order to cleanse Syria and neighboring countries of non-Islamic influence.[10]
Reason for Edit : Its important to mention main difference between Druze and orthodox islam as well the source of Fatwa
Also subsituted the persecution paragraph with a summary since its the introduction and details are found in body — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiram111 (talk • contribs)
References
- ^ "Druze". Britannica.
- ^ Nisan 2002, p. 95.
- ^ "Reforming Islam in Egypt". Economist.
- ^ Nisan, Mordechai. Minorities in the Middle East: A History of Struggle and Self-Expression. McFarland. ISBN 0-7864-5133-5.
- ^ Kayyali, Randa. The Arab Americans. Greenwood Publishing Group. ISBN 0-313-33219-3.
- ^ Sorenson, David. Global Security Watch-Lebanon: A Reference Handbook: A Reference Handbook. ABC-CLIO. ISBN 0-313-36579-2.
- ^ Abdul-Rahman, Muhammed Saed. Islam: Questions And Answers — Schools of Thought, Religions and Sects. AMSA Publication Limited. ISBN 5-551-29049-2.
- ^ Hitti 1924.
- ^ Al-Khalidi, Suleiman. "Calls for aid to Syria's Druze after al Qaeda kills 20". Reuters.
- ^ "Syria: ISIS Imposes 'Sharia' on Idlib's Druze".
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiram111 (talk • contribs)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 July 2024
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I proposed to change the beginning of the lead from the following:
The Druze (/ˈdruːz/ DROOZ;[1] Arabic: دَرْزِيّ, darzī or دُرْزِيّ durzī, pl. دُرُوز, durūz), who call themselves al-Muwaḥḥidūn (lit. 'the monotheists' or 'the unitarians'),[2] are an Arab and Arabic-speaking esoteric ethnoreligious group
to the following:
The Druze (/ˈdruːz/ DROOZ;[3] Arabic: دَرْزِيّ, darzī or دُرْزِيّ durzī, pl. دُرُوز, durūz), who call themselves al-Muwaḥḥidūn (lit. 'the monotheists' or 'the unitarians'),[2] are an Arab esoteric religious group[4][5][6][7]
Furthermore, regarding the sources attached about the Druze as an ethnic-religious group or Arabic-speaking in the article:
- 1. The first source (21), Britannica, describes the Druze as a religious sect rather than an ethnic-religious group, and it also characterizes them as Arabs, as the artilce cited: "The Druze are unique among the Arab communities in Israel, known for their loyalty to the state" and "They are the only Arab group conscripted into the Israel Defense Forces, and they participate in Israel’s border security and diplomatic corps". [1]
- 2. The second source (22), on page 135 [2], refers to the Druze as Arabs and notes that the Israeli government has given preferential treatment to the Druze compared to other Arabs. It does not categorize the Druze as an ethnic-religious group but mentions them in the context of "Arab Druze".
- 3. The third source (23) does not include any reference to the term "ethnic-religious".
- 4. The fourth source (24) does not use the term "ethnic-religious" and only discusses the Druze in the context of their practice of marrying within their sect to avoid assimilation. p.121
Another addition I proposed to change the beginning of the lead from the following:
West Asia who adhere to the Druze faith, an Abrahamic, monotheistic, syncretic, and ethnic religion whose main tenets assert the unity of God, reincarnation, and the eternity of the soul.[8][9][10][11]
to the following:
West Asia who adhere to the Druze faith, an Abrahamic, monotheistic, and syncretic religion whose main tenets assert the unity of God, reincarnation, and the eternity of the soul.
The term "ethnic religion" should be removed, as it is not supported by the referenced sources.
- 1. The first source (8) refers to the Druze religion as an Abrahamic religion but does not use the term "ethnic religion". [3]
- 2. The second source (9) discusses the Druze religion's origins and confirms its status as a monotheistic Abrahamic religion, without labeling it as an ethnic religion. [4]
- 3. The third source (10) describes Druze as Arabs, mentioning: "Druze... Their native language is Arabic, and they are Arabs by culture and tradition," but does not classify the religion as ethnic religion. p.314
- 4. The fourth source (11) also does not refer to the Druze religion as an ethnic religion.
The term "ethnic-religious" or "ethnic religion" in relation to the Druze does not appear to be supported by the attached sources. It seems that this term was introduced without proper backing from the provided references. I believe it should be remove 2.55.182.110 (talk) 21:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not to chum the waters but isn't "Arab" a definition for Arabic-speaking communities in the first place? In the 20th century, there were Arab Jews and Christians in north mesopotamia, and in the same areas Jews, Christians, and even Muslims that speak Aramaic who were not arabs. this argument is ridiculous, the only time the druze are not "arabs" is when "druze" is a separate, state-defined category on their identity cards, like in Israel. Ogress 22:13, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly. The concept of a "Druze ethnicity" was created solely in Israel, and it does not exist in Syria, Lebanon, the Golan Heights, Jordan, or among the Druze diaspora. Curiously, only in Israel did the government conclude that Druze are not Arabs, and they continue to promote this idea. Unfortunately, this misleading narrative has gained traction here as well, despite clear evidence from reliable sources that the Druze are, in fact, Arabs. 2.55.182.110 (talk) 22:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- The article lacks sources to support the claim that the Druze faith is an "ethnic religion" or that Druzes are an "ethnic religious group". Unlike Jews, Copts, or Yazidis, who view their religions through an ethnic lens, the Druze see their religion purely as a faith. Druze Sheiks do not treat their religion as an ethnicity, unlike Jewish rabbis, for example. The Druze are simply Arabs who practice their religion, much like Arab Muslims, Arab Christians, or Arab Baha'is. It is surprising that this description has persisted for years without editorial correction, despite the absence of evidence supporting the terms "ethnic religion" or "ethnic religious group". This misinformation has even been replicated in other Wikipedia versions and numerous other sites, further spreading the inaccuracy. 2.54.182.81 (talk) 23:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly. The concept of a "Druze ethnicity" was created solely in Israel, and it does not exist in Syria, Lebanon, the Golan Heights, Jordan, or among the Druze diaspora. Curiously, only in Israel did the government conclude that Druze are not Arabs, and they continue to promote this idea. Unfortunately, this misleading narrative has gained traction here as well, despite clear evidence from reliable sources that the Druze are, in fact, Arabs. 2.55.182.110 (talk) 22:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Definition of druze". Dictionary.com. 2013-07-18. Retrieved 2019-08-26.
- ^ a b Doniger, Wendy (1999). Merriam-Webster's Encyclopedia of World Religions. Merriam-Webster, Inc. ISBN 978-0-87779-044-0.
- ^ "Definition of druze". Dictionary.com. 2013-07-18. Retrieved 2019-08-26.
- ^ "Druze – History, Religion, & Facts". Encyclopedia Britannica. 20 July 1998. Retrieved 21 Jun 2023.
- ^ Quigley, John B. (2005). The Case for Palestine An International Law Perspective. Duke University Press. p. 135. ISBN 978-0-8223-3539-9.
- ^ Chatty, Dawn (2010). Displacement and Dispossession in the Modern Middle East. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-81792-9.
- ^ Harrison, Simon (2006). Fracturing Resemblances: Identity and Mimetic Conflict in Melanesia and the West. Berghahn Books. pp. 121–. ISBN 978-1-57181-680-1.
- ^ Abulafia, Anna Sapir (23 September 2019). "The Abrahamic religions". www.bl.uk. London: British Library. Archived from the original on 12 July 2020. Retrieved 9 March 2021.
- ^ Obeid, Anis (2006). The Druze & Their Faith in Tawhid. Syracuse University Press. p. 1. ISBN 978-0-8156-5257-1.
- ^ Dana, Léo-Paul (2010). Entrepreneurship and Religion. Edward Elgar Publishing. p. 314. ISBN 978-1-84980-632-9.
- ^ Morrison, Terri; Conaway, Wayne A. (2006). Kiss, Bow, Or Shake Hands: The Bestselling Guide to Doing Business in More Than 60 Countries (illustrated ed.). Adams Media. p. 259. ISBN 978-1-59337-368-9.
Already done -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 September 2024
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Change number of followers at the start. It states 800,000 to 2,000,0000. That should be 2 million based off the source. Thanks. Batmanvillain (talk) 20:49, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- done. thanks. Rainsage (talk) 02:17, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2024
editRequesting the following change -- In the Druze#Relationship with Jews section, "The epistle "Excuses and Warnings" predicts that, as a sign of the end times, Jews will seize control of Jerusalem and seek revenge on its inhabitants as well as those of Acre."
'Acre' incorrectly links to the unit of land measurement instead of the city in Israel.
Thank you! Economycaregiver (talk) 02:47, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 October 2024
edit| | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
this citation for the ibn Taymiyya allegation https://web.archive.org/web/20160304095224/http://app.shaanan.ac.il/shnaton/15/14.pdf has no mention of him nor his alleged ruling on Druze. I didn't check the other citation but if it's also true the whole sentence should be removed. Describing him as proto-salafi is also quite ideological, albeit accepted in the western discourse surrounding Islam, but that's less important. Mohammed Al-Keesh (talk) 04:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 16:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Expand the translation of darzi
editIn the section on Etymology, the first sentence translates darzi as "seamster". Please add "or tailor" after "seamster'. I was unfamiliar with the word seamster and had to look it up. It seems to be the male equivalent of seamstress. Gaucho65 (talk) 14:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)