Talk:Eddie Van Halen/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

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External links modified

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I have just modified 6 external links on Eddie Van Halen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140723175023/http://www.van-halen.com/video/vh-interviews to http://www.van-halen.com/video/vh-interviews
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029195320/http://www.guitarlessons.com/guitarists/rock/eddie-van-halen/ to http://www.guitarlessons.com/guitarists/rock/eddie-van-halen/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.vhnd.com/2013/07/08/15-years-on-eddie-van-halen-interview-revisted/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101125065939/http://www.wayneguitars.com/history.html to http://www.wayneguitars.com/history.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100801014348/http://davemarks.com/test-1/interviews/seymour-duncan/ to http://davemarks.com/test-1/interviews/seymour-duncan/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090629225141/http://news-briefs.ew.com:80/2009/06/eddie-van-halen-marries.html to http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/06/eddie-van-halen-marries.html

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Suggestion to add information

I wanted to add the following information to Eddie Van Halen but Mlpearc (talk · contribs) keeps removing it without giving me viable reasons for doing so. Please look over my suggested edits so that we can reach a consensus. Thank You.

What I wanted to add in the Style and Influence section of Eddie Van Halen:-

Eric Clapton

Van Halen once said, "Eric Clapton is basically the only guitar player who influenced me – even though I don't sound like him. There was a basic simplicity to his playing, his style, his vibe and his sound. He took a Gibson guitar and plugged it into a Marshall, and that was it. The basics. The blues. His solos were melodic and memorable – and that's what guitar solos should be, part of the song. I could hum them to you", adding that Clapton's solos are permanently imprinted in his brain and that Clapton's early stuff is what inspired him to pick up a guitar and his "blues-based sound" is still the core of modern rock guitar.

Unfortunately Mlpearc (talk · contribs) is consistently undoing my edits for no apparent reason and it is, therefore, becoming increasingly difficult for me to do my job so I request other members' help so that we can reach a consensus. Lord NnNn (talk) 15:02, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Already replied on this issue here. - Mlpearc (open channel) 15:24, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

GB fan (talk · contribs) suggested on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User%3ALord_NnNn that I give my reasons for adding the content I want to add on the talk page itself, so here;

I think it's necessary to add Clapton as an influence since there is a section specifically for Style and Influence on Eddie Van Halen's page and Eddie himself has cited Eric Clapton as having a major influence on him several times and therefore Clapton needs to be mentioned as having an influence on him in some way on his page. Lord NnNn (talk) 12:25, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I have no objections to a mention, however I would oppose a whole section, an inline mention and a ref is sufficient. - Mlpearc (open channel) 12:52, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

This could be worked into the page in way that flows well but it's pretty odd just stuck at the top of a section that's predominantly about Van Halen's playing style. It doesn't read well and isn't cohesive with the rest of the section. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 14:36, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. - Mlpearc (open channel) 14:48, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

References

Eddie Van Halen as a keyboardist?

I was wondering why Eddie has guitar listed as his only instrument. He is also a very skilled keyboardist, and you can clearly see him playing keys in the videos for Jump, Why Can't This Be Love, and When It's Love as well as in the live video Live Without a Net. He's also been known to play it on I'll Wait, Love Walks In, and Right Now. Plus, well, in the band page he's listed as playing guitar and keyboard:

So it's pretty clear to me that keyboard should be listed as one of his instruments. 162.72.151.81 (talk) 07:26, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

I totally agree, Keyboards are definitely a secondary instrument, and should be mentioned in the body of the article, not the infobox because only primary instruments go in the infobox per Template:Infobox_musical_artist#instrument. Mlpearc (open channel) 20:35, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

And you completely misinterpreted me. I was saying that keyboards should go in the infobox. 162.72.151.81 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:08, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Keyboards only represent about 10% of Ed's recorded output. It's a secondary instrument. Redrkr (talk) 18:51, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

By stating 'instruments the person is primarily known for using', does it mean the instrument that they are most associated only or instruments that they use on a regular basis? 220.253.170.250 (talk) 14:52, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

As stated in the template's documentation "Instruments listed in the infobox should be limited to only those that the artist is primarily known for using." (emphasis mine) - FlightTime (open channel) 15:01, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

He should have both keyboards and vocals added as instruments. He is known for his harmonies. AddingInstruments (talk) 10:11, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

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I have just modified 7 external links on Eddie Van Halen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111022020333/http://jasobrecht.com/eddie-van-halen-complete-1978-interviews/ to http://jasobrecht.com/eddie-van-halen-complete-1978-interviews/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061219081921/http://www.van-halen.com/newsite/road.html to http://www.van-halen.com/newsite/road.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110115053118/http://www.guitarworld.com/article/van_halen_vh1 to http://www.guitarworld.com/article/van_halen_vh1
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090205000308/http://www.guitarworld.com/article/eddie_van_halen_talks_about_his_new_evh_wolfgang_guitar to http://www.guitarworld.com/article/eddie_van_halen_talks_about_his_new_evh_wolfgang_guitar
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090312021615/http://songwriter101.com/articles/27411_0_6_0_M/ to http://songwriter101.com/articles/27411_0_6_0_M/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050206005300/http://www.steveescobar.com/rock/Ronnie.html to http://steveescobar.com/rock/Ronnie.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060823155657/http://www.spin.com/features/news/2006/07/060727_eddievanhalen/ to http://www.spin.com/features/news/2006/07/060727_eddievanhalen/

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Reasons for instrument switch?

I noticed that this article and the Van Halen article have different reasons for Eddie and Alex switching instruments, and neither mentions the other article's reason. According to this article, the two switched instruments because Eddie heard Alex's drum solo for "Wipeout", and decided that Alex was much better than him. However, in the Van Halen article, the reason explained is that Alex would sneak off to Eddie's drum set while Eddie was delivering newspapers and play the drums, and when Eddie found out, he decided they would just switch. Maybe both of these are true, but if that's the case, I think it might be a good idea to mention both in both articles. I'm posting here because I'm not too sure about the reason shown here. The Alex Van Halen article details a combination of the two reasons, so it may be possible that Eddie switched for both of those reasons. Parascout (talk) 15:21, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

"He is considered one of the best guitarists in the world..."

Considered by whom? This statement is vague, passively-voiced, and tells me nothing except what one editor believes other people believe. The information in the very next sentence actually gives me the same fact in a quantified, documented, meaningful way. PaulCHebert (talk) 05:45, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Country of birth of the mother of Alex & Eddie van Halen

The nation of Indonesia did not yet exist at all in 1914, at the time the mother of Alex and Eddie van Halen was born. At that time, it was a Dutch colony (thus part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands) called Dutch East Indies (or Netherlands Indies) until 1949.

So she was de facto a Dutch citizen, never an Indonesian citizen. I am of mixed Dutch-East Indian / Eurasian ancestry myself so I know what I am talking about, so please do not keep on reverting my small corrections. And why have I been imposed an IP block ban ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcel.Vermeer (talk • contribs) 19:46, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Can you please answer my remark/question?? And let me have this minor detail corrected as opposed to constantly and annoyingly reverting my rightful corrections. Are you Dutch of Dutch/Eurasian yourself, by any chance? No? Good, I thought so already. So please stop bossing people around who have better knowledge of a subject than you do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcel.Vermeer (talk • contribs) 00:36, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Please search through the talk page archives, this has been brought up countless times. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:43, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

History of the band "Van Halen"

This article is about an individual person. Much of it was written around a history of a band the person belonged to -- that information belongs in the article about that band, and is there. It does not need to be cluttering up an article about one guy.Thus, i removed it. PaulCHebert (talk) 06:06, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Clear as mud

This article states: "On March 8, 2007, Van Halen announced on the official band website that Van Halen was entering rehabilitation for unspecified reasons." Presumably the first Van Halen is the band while the second Van Halen is the person who is the subject of this article - obviously, this should be written in such a way that it doesn't sound, well, silly like it currently does, e.g., "On March 8, 2007, the band announced on their official website that Eddie Van Halen was entering...." After all, there are two Van Halens in the band and the band going by their last name as well is bound to generate confusion if you start referring to them without distinguishing which of the three you happen to be referring to at the moment — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.171.131.186 (talk) 22:47, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Jan van Halen

I do not know how to fix this, but when one clicks on the "Jan van Halen" link, you are taken to the Van Halen band page instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:41:200:5260:58B9:9A15:CD5C:B812 (talk) 03:09, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

His smoking

The article states that he first smoked / started smoking at age 12. But did he smoke his entire life after that?, at least until he got throat cancer? Point being, did he get the throat cancer from smoking? Thanks in advance to anybody who knows.Betathetapi545 (talk) 19:55, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

If you smoke for basically any length of time, throat cancer is one of the well known by products (side effects) apart from tongue (which he also had previously) and lung cancer. If you live in the developed world, the yearly cost to the health system in just one country, of treating smoking related diseases is usually in the billions. Editrite! (talk) 21:15, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Mistake to be corrected: in dutch the family name is 'Halen'

The disclaimer at the start of the article states that dutch family name is 'Van Halen' not 'Halen' is misleading. In Dutch the use of prepositions such as 'van' (from) or articles such as 'de' (the) to connect given name and family name are quite common, but these 'connecting prepositions/articles' are not part of the family name. The way his birth name is spelled in the bio is actually correct (Edward Lodewijk van Halen) since the v in 'van' is not capitalized because it is not part of his family name. If you were to look for his birth certificate in the city archives it would be listed under 'H', not v. In the US his family name is spelled Van Halen. That is perfectly acceptable, but to state that 'In this Dutch name, the family name is Van Halen, not Halen.' sounds as if in Dutch, Van Halen was always his family name which is not true. Can someone change this to represent the fact that the way his family name is spelled is the result of the English language being unable to accommodate this type of last name in the same way it is done in the language it originates from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.166.44 (talk) 12:46, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

From my non-expert reading of Van_(Dutch), it does not support this proposed revision. We'd need several reliable sources to revise the article against the discussion in that article. Ccrrccrr (talk) 22:00, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Head and neck cancer

Where did head and neck cancer come from? The articles aren’t mentioning that at all, and they’re just mentioning throat cancer. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 20:13, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

If someone develops cancer and it's not detected (and treated) early, it can spread to other parts of the body (known as "secondaries"). Editrite! (talk) 21:24, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

It got removed from his Wikipedia article. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 22:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

MOS:SURNAME

I know that the general rule is to refer to the subject of the article by their last name per MOS:SURNAME but, given that the band is also called Van Halen and the article talks about various members of his family with the same last name, I think that this would be an exception to the general rule and it would be more appropriate to use "Eddie" throughout to avoid confusion and to disambiguate from the band and his family members. As a result, I have made with this change - please feel free to revert and discuss here. TribunalMan (talk) 01:03, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes. "Eddie" is used on all the Van Halen band articles. A few instances of SURNAME can be allowed when context is very clear. Binksternet (talk) 02:36, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Name

Correction needs to be made, from Marc Stone to Michael Anthony!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:B80:F240:3062:65D3:AAF6:A2F5 (talk) 03:10, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Mental Health

There is nothing on the main page that makes note of Van Halen's battle with depression. The press has mostly distilled the troubled parts of his public image into cancer and alcohol while hiding these comorbidities that probably plagued Van Halen as much as his cancer.

Most of the world knew Van Halen at one time or another as one of the greatest guitar players ever so it's shocking his self-esteem would eventually plummet so severely that he suffered years of notoriously self-destructive behavior. Rather than a slight on his heroic status these details if included would make him more heroic if not more human and give the public a better understanding of his life and the music business. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.203.145.100 (talk) 14:43, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

... the doctors say it's possible ...

I know it is something he said, but is there any evidence of what doctor(s) ever told him such a ridiculous falsehood? He was probably just having a send-up. But if an editor has a source, it would greatly clear up this issue. Tanx 50.111.19.2 (talk) 22:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know if it matters as it was his opinion. In theory, anything is possible. I found a source (a 501(c)(3) organization) that refutes this as a possibility, but again, I don't believe this really matters. Here is the source: https://oralcancerfoundation.org/people/arts-entertainment/eddie-van-halen/ Jurisdicta (talk) 00:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

No, anything is NOT possible, that's absolute bollocks - it is not possible for you to suddenly jump 300 feet into the air. It is not possible for a cat to change into a dog. Etc. The question was: is there a reference that points out which doctor or doctors told EVH that you can get cancer from holding a metal pick in your mouth for a few minutes? Your opinion on what matters is not the point. 50.111.19.2 (talk) 09:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

I seriously doubt that you will find any source for that statement. It sounds to me like his doctor was politely humouring a dying man, who was trying to rationalize that the cause of his cancer was something other than smoking. Editrite! (talk) 21:19, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Instruments

Eddie Van Halen wrote and played the keyboards on albums and played them live in concert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColdBlueFire (talk • contribs) 22:25, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Lung cancer

This mentions that he also had lung cancer.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/06/eddie-van-halen-dead-dies-cancer-65/

Should this be worth mentioning in his article? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 00:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Typically articles only talk about illnesses at the time of death but I don't see why it could not be included as part of the article as he was receiving treatment for lung cancer. I found another reference that could be used in place of TMZ.com that mentions his bout with lung cancer: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/entertainment/eddie-van-halen-dead/index.html Jurisdicta (talk) 05:06, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

I couldn’t find another reference that mentioned lung cancer so that’s why I put the TMZ.com article. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 09:06, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

His ex-wife Valerie Bertinelli, who was at his bedside when he passed, even mentioned lung cancer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColdBlueFire (talk • contribs) 22:32, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Website quoting Val about lung cancer https://theblast.com/c/eddie-van-halen-death-cancer-valerie-bertinelli-wolf And heres the Tweet https://twitter.com/Wolfiesmom/status/1313623330147037184?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColdBlueFire (talk • contribs) 22:36, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Beat It

Nobody's going to add that he played on the biggest selling album of all time? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.206.92 (talk) 17:05, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Why don't you add it then? Brantzmyers (talk) 18:47, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

fake HOAX

i think Eddie's death was a balant hoax because: A. Even though he had cancer in the first place, a hoaxer might have contacted The New York Times about it. B. The hoaxer was trying to do it to make all the Van Halen fans and the band upset. C. The person who had supposedly made the hoax upset Eddie's son Wolfgang, but they didn't use any credible evidence. I think this article should be reverted because of this out of order hoax.Astronomyscientist124 (talk) 09:17, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are based on what is reported in reliable sources, not speculation. Greyjoy ^talk 06:03, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

WP:BOOMERANG on Astronomyscientist124 who is hoaxing, placing false NYT URLs into the article. Binksternet (talk) 06:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

yeah, I would bet money these "Eddie is not dead" edits are being made by the same person who got chewed up by Wolfgang VH, maybe. Ibaman (talk) 10:08, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Disputing the genre of glam metal

Although there are sources calling Van Halen a glam metal band (also known as hair metal or pop metal), the sources do not describe Eddie as a glam guitarist. They call him a rock guitarist, as well as hard rock and heavy metal. Whatever reason that the band can be described as glam metal (which is supported by a few sources, disputed by others, and not mentioned in a lot of them), the label has not been placed on Eddie by observers writing about him. Binksternet (talk) 00:33, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree DLManiac (talk) 03:10, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't think "glam metal" is a distinct category of guitar playing. Glam metal guitar is basically edgy hard rock guitar and usually performed nowhere near the skill level of EVH. However, we are talking about genres which EVH's music falls under, thereby genres he is associated with - not necessarily what type of player he was. Van Halen's music, i.e. the music that Eddie created, falls under multiple categories, one of which is certainly glam metal. PJM (talk) 13:16, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

My position is that the glam label cannot be placed in the infobox because it is not used to describe Eddie himself in reliable sources. Certainly we can describe his band in all the glory of their various genres, but we would do it in prose in the article. When we assign a genre to Eddie, we pull that genre from descriptions of him alone. To do otherwise is synthesis. Binksternet (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I think all the genres his music fit into should be included. Look at Steve Vai's info box. It gives a complete picture of where his playing ventured...making it more informative and encyclopedic. PJM (talk) 16:11, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Steve Vai's infobox as you found it earlier today violated Template:Infobox_musical_artist in that it listed more than four genres. It violated MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE by listing genres that were not supported by article text. I removed those just now. Thanks for pointing it out.

The infobox should only contain simple facts, supported by verifiable article text. It should not be used as a replacement for article text. Nowhere in the Eddie Van Halen or Steve Vai biographies is glam discussed. Binksternet (talk) 17:37, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

speaking as a lifelong VH fan, I reckon David Lee Roth is the godfather of glam metal; glam metal is Dave Lee, in a sense. "Van Hagar" is pure classic hard rock and not glam. But, yes, this is fan's talk, not suitable for an encyclopedia, but worth of mention for the merit of achieving consensus in a talk page. Ibaman (talk) 22:27, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Some new information about his death

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/eddie-van-halen-cremated-ashes-delivered-to-his-son/

An article just came out and it has some new information about his death. Is it a reliable source? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 14:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Born in Amsterdam or Nijmegen?

I was looking in older, pre-Wikipedia books to see what they said about Eddie's place of birth. Some sources list Amsterdam, more list Nijmegen. DLManiac said on my user talk page that Alex and Eddie were both born in Amsterdam, then the family moved to Nijmegen. I don't see a cite for that sequence, but I'm open to whatever shows up. In the article, we need to summarize the published sources.

• 2004 History of Rock and Roll, page 190. Says both Alex and Eddie were born in Nijmegen. From textbook publishers Kendall Hunt.
• 2003 Rock N Roll Gold Rush: A Singles Un-Cyclopedia says Eddie was born in Nijmegen. By Maury Dean, a PhD musicologist, a writer of pop music books.
• 2002 People Almanac 2003 published by People magazine. It says on page 473 that Eddie was born in Amsterdam.
• 2001 Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock. On page 1028 it says Alex was born in Amsterdam. Limited to Google Book snippet previews, I can't confirm Eddie.
• 2000 Music critic Mikal Gilmore's Night Beat: A Shadow History of Rock & Roll. Gilmore writes on page 309 that both brothers were born in Nijmegen.
• 1996 The Rock Who's Who, page 701. "Edward Van Halen (b. Jan. 26, 1957, Nijmegen, Netherlands)"
• 1995 The Guinness Encyclopedia of Popular Music, volume 4. Says Nijmegen for both brothers.
• 1994 Pioneers of Rock and Roll: 100 Artists who Changed the Face of Rock, page 273. Says Nijmegen for Eddie.
• 1989 Contemporary Musicians, page 269, Gale Research. Says both brothers were born in Nijmegen.

To me, it looks like we have two options. The one I suggest is to weigh the sources and say Eddie was born in Nijmegen. The other option is to acknowledge that some sources say Eddie was born in Amsterdam while others say he was born in Nijmegen. In that case we would list the sources, and even name some explicitly for the reader. Binksternet (talk) 21:03, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I'll reiterate that the story has always felt like Eddie was born in Nijmegen and I only recently started to doubt that when this page was changed with the following source:

• Dutch Newspaper listing births in Amsterdam. This is the one that seems like the best source.

I also found this

• This site quotes "the family moved to Nijmegen shortly after the birth of Eddie". Granted I know nothing of the reliability here.

The conclusion I draw from the first source I listed is that he really was born in Amsterdam, but moved to Nijmegen shortly after, and somewhere along the line, all of these rock biography websites created the story that he was therefore born in Nijmegen, and it has been accepted as unsupported fact as a result. I am not emotionally attached to this narrative, that's just the way I have viewed this new source. DLManiac (talk) 07:44, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

The Dutch newspaper source is impressive and clearly the better reference. I have just substituted it on the article. Ibaman (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Glad we worked it out. Binksternet (talk) 20:40, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

So above it is sourced he was born in Amsterdam. Why is the phrase "Dutch-American" being reverted to simply American? He clearly was not born in the USA, the article says he didn't come to the USA until he was 7 years old. Maybe we need to have a definitive decision here in talk. Trackinfo (talk) 07:56, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

to me, the guidelines at MOS:ETHNICITY answer your question EVH is notabke for being an american guitarist in an american band.—DLManiac (talk) 09:03, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Keyboardist

More important than the topic above IMHO, the infobox should mention keyboards as well as guitar. The riff for "Dancing in the Street" was written and performed on Minimoog, And the Cradle Will Rock... was written and performed on Wurlitzer electric piano through a Marshall amp, Jump (Van Halen song) was written and performed on Oberheim OB-Xa, while Dreams (Van Halen song), Why Can't This Be Love and Love Walks In are with Oberheim OB-8. Eddie also wrote When It's Love and Right Now (Van Halen song) on keyboards. It surely merits the full mention I've just added in the article. Ibaman (talk) 23:06, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

He is known as a guitarist, not a keyboardist. - FlightTime (open channel) 22:47, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Equipment section

This one reads like it was written by the companies that he endorsed. In the amp section, there is not even a mention of Marshall and variac. KhlavKhalash (talk) 14:52, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Why not add that info yourself? Just be sure to cite a source. PJM (talk) PJM (talk) 18:56, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Dutch-American vs. American (only)

Eddie Van Halen was a Dutch national and citizen from the age of 0, and an American national and citizen (we do not know if he obtained citizenship) from the age of 6. When he became famous, he was a Dutch-American national. This is called dual nationality. Two different people have reverted "Dutch-American" citing MOS:ETHNICITY, but it clearly states "if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable." In this case, that means "Dutch-American" is correct as EVH was a Dutch national and an American national when he became notable. That he became notable while residing in the United States does not mean that he had lost his Dutch nationality at the time he became notable.

That's the way I interpret it, does anyone have another opinion? Can we cite examples of other dual nationals who had their birth nationality deleted by moving across a border and do the reasons for losing their nationality apply here? Omnibus (talk) 13:13, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

My understandig was that nationality is not the issue in cases like this. If someone lived in country A until they were ten and then moved to country B, and have become famous in country B, this someone would be described as "a B someone", not because of nationality but rather because of country of origin or residency. Also, nationality is rather difficult to source. (Is a statement in an interview enough? Or only a copy of the passport?) I can think of no examples, simply stating what I thought was common practice and what my understanding of the meaning behind MOS:ETHNICITY is. Maybe others have a clearer understanding and/or preference. Mark in wiki (talk) 14:22, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

As far as common practice, the first two "U.S. immigrants who became notable only after coming to America" that came to mind are split: Andrew Grove is identified as Hungarian-American, whereas Mila Kunis is identified as American. So maybe it's not a hard and fast rule, but I'll try to think of more examples to point us in one direction or the other. Omnibus (talk) 16:52, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

There appears to be a reliable source which states he was a naturalized citizen stating: "Born in the Netherlands, Eddie Van Halen moved at age seven to the United States, settling in Southern California. Eddie was a naturalized U.S. citizen." The citation is here [1]. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:19, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for this, I've edited it in my original comment. Omnibus (talk) 16:52, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Interpretations of the relevant guidelines have long been contentious. The last line of MOS:ETHNICITY reads, "previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability", which seems to me to indicate that only "American" needs to be named for Eddie since that's where and what he was when he became notable. Otherwise, I'm not sure if I see why that line is even part of the guideline? MOS:FIRSTBIO states, "Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable" which also seems to me to mean that where was living as a citizen or permanent resident when he became notable.

I see how all this can be seen as fairly ambiguous, but I'm not sure why these lines would exist if, as in this example, "Dutch-American" is allowed as it's not clear what would be forbidden from any biography otherwise?

As for why these prohibitions exist in the first place, there's a lot of nationalism on Wikipedia and people are always trying to squeeze every single mention of any possible connection between a subject and every single nationality possible. I get that "Dutch-American" in this case isn't as extreme as mentioning that his family also has (I'm making this up) French, German, Icelandic, Finnish, and Welsh blood in the opening sentence but it's not clear to me that "Dutch-American" is where that line is drawn given the lines I quoted above. SQGibbon (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

American in the lead and Dutch ancestry can be handled in prose. - FlightTime (open channel) 19:07, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• It should be noted that there is no indication that Dutch is a "previous" nationality. We have a source for him being of Dutch nationality from birth onward and none of him ever losing this status. Also, limiting the description to the place residency and work is simply not compatible with the meaning of these words. Marty Friedman is a guitarist largely famous for his work done in Japan, but he is by no means whatsoever a 'Japanese' guitarist. Hannibal is largely known for his 'work' in the Roman Empire, where he necessarily resided during the campaigns, but he is by no means a 'Roman' warlord. Van Halen is an American guitarist because he had the passport, and by the same virtue he is or was Dutch. Korn (talk) 19:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Cause of Death: Cancer or Stroke?

The article says that he died of a stroke, but the 3 cited articles all say cancer. Which is it? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:57, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Six strings... Or hell that's a statement. Hell that's all I got right now...

Voice of concern? History of hard rock music. 2600:2B00:7329:5D00:F8C8:BD47:ECF9:B91C (talk) 04:24, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

"They began learning the piano at age six"

Alex was born more than 20 months before Eddie was. If they began learning the piano at the same time (as opposed to the same age), they weren't both six years old. If each of them began learning the piano at age six, this statement needs clarification. —71.105.243.101 (talk) 22:29, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Weak

A shockingly disjointed and weak article for such an influential and iconic guitarist. 2601:41:200:5260:B879:C2E7:980C:27B6 (talk) 15:46, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Instead of complaining, why not help improve it? PJM (talk) 13:42, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I mean what went wrong the first time Susrage (talk) 01:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

No Marshall?

no word of his famous Marshall in the amp section? Wait a minute... KhlavKhalash (talk) 08:54, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Dutch-American?

Why is Eddie not described as "Dutch-American" despite him being born and growing up in the Netherlands, ever renouncing his citizenship? The infobox even states his nationality as both American and Dutch. Qbox673 (talk) 15:53, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia's standards on how to describe someone in this manner are noted at MOS:ETHNICITY. In this case "In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is currently a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable...Similarly, neither previous nationalities nor the country of birth should be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability." Eddie Van Halen was a resident of the U.S. during the entire time he was notable; being born in the Netherlands is true, it has been determined that birth alone is not directly relevant to the opening paragraph. Of course, being born in the Netherlands is mentioned elsewhere in the article, which is fine. We aren't trying to hide it, but insofar as the lead paragraph is a summary, we only summarize the most notable parts of a person's life, and he didn't do anything much notable while living in the Netherlands. --Jayron32 16:07, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Dutch in the lead sentence

I think we need to reach a consensus. Look at the edit history of this article. Various editors added Dutch to the lead sentence. Clearly just including American alone in the lead sentence is misleading and causing confusion. I am fully aware of the MOS:ETHNICITY guidelines. I think a good compromise would be to say "Dutch-born American" in the lead sentence like on the most recent edit in the article or add a note to American that clarifies he was born in the Netherlands. Same goes for Alex. Bowling is life (talk) 20:41, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

To note, I removed the recent edit as this discussion has just started. I have no qualms either way, but leave it status-quo until this discussion is complete. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, it's mainly anonymous IPs who are making the changes. I don't see how MOS:ETHNICITY isn't clear in this case especially where it states specifically that we don't mention the place of birth. There is no allowance for "X-born Y". Nor do we even need to mention that he was Dutch in the lead sentence as it in the infobox and in his early history section as well as in the short description (I'm not sure it belongs there but I haven't looked into it).

Also, we had already reached a consensus (see the archives). SQGibbon (talk) 04:48, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Can tapping be used for melodies?

I changed the text in the intro indicating that tapping can be used to play "rapid arpeggios," to say "rapid arpeggios and melodies." FlightTime reverted as unsourced OR. But the original claim has no citation either, so if my edit contains too much original reasoning to exist without a citation, shouldn't the whole sentence be deleted? Also, although in a strict sense my edit makes the sentence contain more words, I would argue it actually makes the sentence contain less original reasoning. (Wouldn't it be more original research to claim a guitar technique only allows you to play arpeggios? Some factor would have to intervene to prevent you from playing non-arpeggio notes.) Also, in the Two-handed tapping section of the Tapping page, it already refers to playing melodies without a citation specifically saying that melodies are possible. If my edit meets the bar for OR, it seems like that should be deleted too. 71.233.115.244 (talk) 02:06, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Birthname

Eddie was born in the Netherlands so at birth his surname was with a small ‘v’. Only after arriving in the US was his surname changed to a capital ‘V’. His entry in the population register of Amsterdam Are there any strong arguments to list his birth name with a capital ‘V’ anyway? It is not about the spelling of his surname in the rest of the article.

More info: van (Dutch)

Egel _Reaction? 12:57, 6 June 2024 (UTC)