Talk:Elisabeth Moss

Name

I'm not sure why her last name is being changed but it requires a WP:RS. MarnetteD|Talk 20:22, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Actor?

Hello, so I read the note arguing that Moss refers to herself as an actor, what is the source? Because considering her feminist positions, I find that surprising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé (talk • contribs) 21:11, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Based on a quick Google search, it appears you can look up almost any interview with her: [1] [2]. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 21:52, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I've added these links as sources. Regards. Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé (talk) 10:42, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Both those sources identify her as an actress. The first one literally has right at the start "Occupation: Actress". The terminology used by the sources is more important than the terminology used by the subject. See MOS:ID: "When there is a discrepancy between the term most commonly used by reliable sources for a person or group and the term that person or group uses for themselves, use the term that is most commonly used by recent reliable sources." She doesn't say in either of those sources that she prefers "actor" to "actress". Both terms are accurate, one is more specific. There's no need to make a point of not using "actress". Any interpretation of her use of "actor" in those interviews as meaning she identifies as an actor rather than an actress is WP:OR. See WP:PRIMARY: "Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation." MClay1 (talk) 07:38, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Just for the record, my first edit summary where I wrote "These sources do support the idea..." should be "don't support". MClay1 (talk) 03:39, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm really struggling with this. I just castigated an IP editor (90.254.190.141) for changing actor to actress, based on the hidden-text note, but then chased it up with Google and I can't find any serious evidence that she objects to being called an actress. Yes, actor is a gender-neutral term, but that's a double-edged sword: the fact she has referred to herself as an actor in an interview does not necessarily mean she objects to being called an actress. If no one can come up with a reference that specifically says she doesn't want to be called an actress, can we get rid of that note? Elemimele (talk) 20:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with objections. She refers to herself as an actor in the DVD commentary for Mad Men. She is also referred to as an actor on the Comcast menu listing performers in a series and by various newspapers noting her birthday. The term is clearly gender neutral and specific to human beings. MarnetteD|Talk 21:22, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I am not aware of any sources where she refers to herself as an "actress", while there are numerous interviews where she calls herself an "actor" (in addition to the 2 above, here are a few more from the top of the Google results: [3] [4] [5]). Reliable sources refer to her as both and do not appear to prefer one over the other, and even sources like her Emmys bio uses "actor" [6]. In that situation, I'm not sure why we wouldn't go with the preference of the article subject. Can anyone find a single article where she calls herself an "actress"? – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 08:47, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

But is it her preference? I see copious reputable sources that call her an actress after interviewing her; if she felt strongly about it, she'd probably have asked them to call her an actor. I don't see any sources in which she says "please don't call me an actress". Just because someone uses a particular term themselves, it doesn't mean they disapprove of all other terms, or feel strongly about which term is right. Regarding the sources above, in two of them, Moss is comparing herself to other actors, and naturally uses the generic, genderless term; the Emmy one lists her as an American actor but then awards her best actress awards, so it's a bit cherry-picky to choose one term over the other. Unless she really has expressed this preference, it feels a little as though we're forcing a point of view that is an editor's, rather than hers. Elemimele (talk) 12:27, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

American and British

Moss is an American and British actor, not just an American actor. Let's compare Wikipedia's consistency on this with that of Christopher Nolan. Both Nolan and Moss are in the same position as each other: one parent was British, one parent was American. Both were born and raised primarily in one country - Nolan in Britain, and Moss in America. Both hold citizenship of the other country through their foreign-born parent. Yet Nolan is described as a "British and American director", yet Moss is simply an "American actor". I'd like for the logic of this to be explained, as it seems there are inconsistent standards being applied here. I propose that the article be changed to reflect both Moss's dual heritage and dual citizenship, to match the standards that are firmly applied elsewhere. Hell, even Nolan's brother Jonathan is described as a "British and American screenwriter and producer", yet he's much more distinctively recognisable as an American than anything else. (PaulThomas92 (talk) 03:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC))

Not only does WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST, but the Nolans were born and raised in both London and Chicago, among other connections to both countries in their careers. Not comparable examples at all. – notwally (talk) 05:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

And how about Christopher Hitchens then, who was very firmly born and raised entirely in the United Kingdom with no American parents, and only became an American citizen much later in his life, yet he's described as a "British and American author". Hitchens didn't even move to the United States until 1981 when he was 32 years of age. There's also Andrew Sullivan, born and raised entirely in Britain to British citizens of Irish descent, and didn't move to the United States until 1984 when he was in his early 20s, yet is also described as "British-American". These are of course moot points, unless we're suggesting that you have to live in a country for an arbitrary period of time to be classed as a citizen of that country.(PaulThomas92 (talk) 21:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC))

Again, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST. Your arguments should be about this article subject. Especially since your examples literally have no comparison to this article subject considering every single one of them lived in both countries, unlike Moss. – notwally (talk) 22:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Again, I don't care, I was told to bring it to this talk page, since, you know, it's about Elisabeth Moss. The fact that every single one of them lived in both countries is completely and utterly irrelevant, since if it was relevant, Moss wouldn't hold British citizenship now, would she? If like most other Wikipedians you're just going to be cliquey, argumentative, and obtuse with an over-inflated sense of your own self-importance with nothing to actually say other than "nope", just don't bother commenting anything further.(216.174.109.231 (talk) 00:44, 30 June 2024 (UTC))

Moss's British citizenship has nothing to do with her living in the country. Someone who has lived in worked in two countries, has citizenship in both those countries, and whose notability is relevant to their work in both those countries is an entirely different example than this article subject. Maybe try projecting less and actually providing examples that would be relevant or even try discussing the actual article subject. – notwally (talk) 04:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)