Talk:Eunuchs in China

Making major changes to the formatting and references/citations

Hi there fellow Wikipedians,

I started working on this article as it appears on a list that the Guild of Copy Writers reference as needing revision to improve the quality of the article. I immediately noticed that, while extensively researched and referenced, the end notes and Reference page were overwhelming to the reader and would need to be pared down. I began to reorganize the dynasty sections into groups as I noticed almost all of the short, transitional dynasties in China during that time had little data concerning eunuchs. I combined a series of two or three dynasties until a more influential dynasty was created.

Feel free to let me know if you think this idea works, or if I should revert my edits. Thanks! Jenbird831 (talk) 10:43, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Jenbird831 didn't copyedit but destroyed the article with original research and synthesis.

This is the restored article to when before he edited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eunuchs_in_China&oldid=1180066830

He added "For example" between "Indigenous tribals from southern China were used as eunuchs during the Sui and Tang dynasties." and "the rebel An Lushan had a Khitan (Liao) eunuch"

That was not an example of the former. Khitan people are not from southern China which is why the original version didn't say "for example".

He synthesised the separate three Liao, Jin and Yuan sections into one destroying it with hiz own made up assertions.

He synthesised them and made up his own random claims

"The Liao, Jin, and Yuan dynasties regularly castrated enemy prisoners of war under age 10, forcing them to serve royalty or esteemed citizens. "

There is no source for the Jin and Yuan castrating enemy prisoners of war and them serving "esteemed citizens". It was only the Liao dynasty that castrated enemy prisoners of war under 10 which is what it said before she synthesised it with no sources.

She changed "The Liao enacted a new ling (ordinance) on castration, when an yila (i-la) (footsoldier) named Tuli (T'u-li)'s underage daughter was raped by an Imperial consort clan uncle, lang jun (lang-chün) Xiao Yan's (Hsiao Yen)'s slave Haili (Hai-li) in 962 when Emperor Muzong of Liao was reigning. Haili was made a slave to Tuli after being castrated." into "Like the dynasties which rose and fell before theirs, the Khitans enacted an ordinance permitting castration in 962 after the rape of a footsoldier's young daughter during the reign of Emperor Muzong of Liao. The rapist (an uncle of an imperial consort) was castrated and enslaved to his victim for life."

That completely changed the meaning. Tuli's daughter was raped by Haili, a slave of Xiao Yan, the imperial uncle. Haili was castrated and made a slave of Tuli. He changed it into the uncle doing the rape of the victim and becoming a slave of the victim.

These are just some examples of what he did.Serenebea (talk) 15:46, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Pinging Jenbird831 and Miniapolis, who both seem to have participated in the GOCE pass. Please see the message above from an editor who has reverted to a revision before your changes. I'm not at all familiar with this article, and just passed by while patrolling for vandalism. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 16:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

This seems to be a content issue between Jenbird831 (who posted here over a year ago, before I copyedited the article in response to a {{copy edit}} tag) and Serenebea, who provides no sources for their allegations of WP:SYN and WP:NOR violations and seems unwilling to assume good faith. Miniapolis 17:21, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Are you serious? Miniapolis I didn't assume bad faith or accuse jenbird of vandalism, I only said they were violating policy (original research and synthesis) which they did.

The person making up original research is the one providing no sources. JenBird completely reversed the meaning of cited sentences (an uncle's slave raping someone was changed to the uncle raping someone) made up complete disinformation with no sources (Jin and Yuan castration enemy prisoners of war).Serenebea (talk) 18:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

@Miniapolis @Serenebea@TechnoSquirrel69 hi guys, seems like my edits really struck a nerve with @Serenebea not sure why this person felt the need to take it this far. I honestly believe the edits and style changes I made helped make what had been a poorly written and disorganized mess more cohesive. I made these edits in good faith and was honestly only trying to help. The creator of the article is prolific, but many of his articles need a great deal of revision. Jenbird831 (talk) 08:39, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

(←) Jenbird831, thanks for the ping. Regarding your October post to me, Serenebea, no one said you accused Jenbird of vandalism; TechnoSquirrel69 was patrolling for vandalism. I did, however, caution you for incivility and personal attacks in edit summaries (which, ironically, you rarely provide); repeatedly accusing another editor of policy violations with nothing to back up your accusations is a personal attack. Have either of you considered asking WikiProject China for help? Dispute-resolution tools also exist, and accusing another editor of "destroying" an article (with no sources, no less) is unwise on a collaborative project like WP. Miniapolis 20:11, 28 December 2023 (UTC)