Talk:Ewing sarcoma

Change Page Name

This page should be renamed Ewing sarcoma and the re-direct should be from Ewing's sarcoma. ArchonMeld (talk) 13:47, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

ArchonMeld, a bit late, but I have requested a move. AdrianHObradors (talk) 23:10, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Patrick Ewing Reference

The explanation that adding up the Chromosone 11 and 22 equals Patrick Ewing's jersey number is nuts. This should be removed from the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.30.188 (talk) 05:37, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Agree

As a medical student, I assure you that this mnemonic is used all the time and is actually really helpful for remembering the translocation (there are many translocations that we are expected to memorize, so every mnemonic helps). I didn't see the original entry so I'm not sure how it was phrased, but I think it's worth including this tidbit as medical students use Wikipedia frequently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.37.210.254 (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I think it is a bit comical to have that inputted into an encyclopedia entry, but it is very commonly used for Board (USMLE Step 1) review material. I think if enough people want it; it won't take away from the facts of the article. It'll just make a few other med students chuckle a bit. -- Paul K. | MechE | MSY-2 | Chemist | Coffee Addict 19:40, 17 August 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulkarr (talk • contribs)

I'm

I'm not a doctor but I think the upper arm bone link is dead because it should be humerus. Art LaPella 03:51, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

211.31.163.133 01:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC) be serious

PNET

I don't think Ewing's and PNET are synonymous. Can someone with expertise in this area comment? Hnc 19:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, my research when my son was diagnosed, indicates this is only a theory, not an established fact.

It's true. PNET describes a number of tumors characterized by primitive "round, small blue cells". Other examples are medulloblastoma, Wilm's tumors and a number of others —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.32.162 (talk) 15:41, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the term "PNET" is somewhat ambiguous. As a pediatric oncologist, I have never heard of Wilms tumor referred to as PNET. Medulloblastoma looks like a particular type of PNET, but again, nobody uses those terms interchangably. To be specific, primative neuroectodermal tumor (PNET) is a type of brain tumor that has nothing to do with Ewing's sarcoma. This is sometimes called a "central PNET" or a "supratentorial PNET." Peripheral PNET (pPNET), on the other hand, is a tumor type that is essentially identical to Ewing's sarcoma, and is not found in the CNS. It'd be fine to merge this latter type with the Ewing's discussion, since most docs now refer to these things as Ewing's sarcoma, or Ewing's sarcoma family of tumors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.100.235.165 (talk) 20:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The NCCN Guidelines for the treatment of Ewing's Sarcoma include the following statement: "Ewing's sarcoma family of tumors (ESFT) includes Ewing's sarcoma, primitive neuroectodermal tumor (PNET), Askin's tumor, PNET of bone, and extraosseous Ewing's sarcoma." See also http://www.nccn.org/professionals/physician_gls/PDF/bone.pdf --BAW (talk) 13:33, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

External links

Wikipedia's external links policy and the specific guidelines for medicine-related articles do not permit the inclusion of external links to non-encyclopedic material, particularly including: patient support groups, personal experience/survivor stories, internet chat boards, e-mail discussion groups, recruiters for clinical trials, healthcare providers, fundraisers, or similar pages.

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an advertising opportunity or a support group for patients or their families. Please do not re-insert links that do not conform to the standard rules.

External links are not required in Wikipedia articles. They are permitted in limited numbers and in accordance with the policies linked above. If you want to include one or more external links in this article, please link directly to a webpage that provides detailed, encyclopedic information about the disease. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Transposons

In the wiki article on "Alu Sequence" it says that it might have something to do with Ewing's sarcoma.

"In the review article referenced below [5], the authors report that the following human diseases have been linked with Alu insertions:

... Ewing's sarcoma ... "

maybe that should be added to this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Believr4god (talk • contribs) 18:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge

Noting that I don't know much about this:

• If it's true that Ewing's and PNET are the same, then we should merge the articles.
• If it's not true, then we need to fix the first sentence to reflect that, and perhaps add a short section at the end that differentiates the two (so that the assertion won't keep returning in the future).

WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they are the same. PNET can arise everywhere, can Ewing's sarcoma do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Toypasu (talk • contribs) 07:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

PNET and Ewing Sarcoma are not synonymous. A primitive neuroectodermal tumor (PNET) is generally a brain tumor, and maintains that diagnosis when found in the brain. However, a peripheral primitive neuroectodermal tumor (pPNET) can be found elsewhere in the body, and is very similar pathologically to a Ewing Sarcoma. Ewing sarcomas are generally bone related, whereas pPNETs do not have to grow near or on the bone. Therefore, though the two diagnoses are similar pathologically, they should remain separate as they represent different disease types and locations. There is already some differentiation noted on the page. --Danman2012 (talk) 15:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Per this discussion, I have removed the merge tags from the article and attempted to (re-)explain the distinction in this article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Ewing's vs Ewing

The current naming convention favors avoiding the "apostrophe s". We believe the title should be changed from "Ewing's" to "Ewing". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.218.125.170 (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

no language on symptons?

how would one have a clue to get to doctor? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.115.220 (talk) 15:58, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121029092227/http://atlasgeneticsoncology.org/Tumors/Ewing5010.html to http://atlasgeneticsoncology.org/Tumors/Ewing5010.html
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080422075522/http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_3X_How_is_Ewings_Family_of_tumors_staged_48.asp?sitearea= to http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_3X_How_is_Ewings_Family_of_tumors_staged_48.asp?sitearea=
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Source

https://www.cancer.gov/types/bone/hp/ewing-treatment-pdq

Barbara ✐  ✉ 00:11, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 10 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Result:
Moved. Fairly close, rationale-wise, however the consensus below leans toward renaming to lose the "'s". Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 20:56, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

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Ewing's sarcoma → Ewing sarcoma – Most modern sources call it Ewing sarcoma, also de majority and the most important ones AdrianHObradors (talk) 23:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 07:28, 22 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 20:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. >>> Extorc.talk 08:33, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• This one should probably go through a full RM discussion, given previous move history and that a decent number of citations (including NEJM) have "Ewing's" in the title. DanCherek (talk) 23:45, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

  I agree. I'd never seen it in my life without the 's Dr. Vogel (talk) 00:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:17, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

• Some more info: "Ewing sarcoma": 1,520,000 results. "Ewing's sarcoma": 644,000 results.

Some places that call it Ewing sarcoma

1. National Organization of Rare Diseases. US, NPO. NORD
2. National Institute of Health. American, goverment organization NIH
3. Soft Tissue and Bone Tumours WHO Classification of Tumours This series (also known as the WHO Blue Books) is regarded as the gold standard for the diagnosis of tumours—WHO
4. Bone Cancer research trust UK. Actually one of the sources on this article is from them and they used "Ewing's". But link is now dead and they are using "Ewing" now. BRCT
5. Mayo Clinic US Mayo Clinic
6. NHS UK NHS
7. The Johns Hopkins Hospital US JHH
8. St. Jude Children's Research Hospital St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
9. American Society of Clinical Oncology ASCO

Places calling it Ewing's sarcoma

1. NEJM NEJM, US
2. webmd WebMD
3. American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, US AAOS
4. Cleveland clinic In the title, but actually use Ewing sarcoma in the text. Cleveland clinic

This is a quick summary from a search, feel free to add more resources to this comment if I missed some important organization. But it feels to me that Ewing sarcoma, without the "'s", is the most used term. More input from MD would be appreciated though. AdrianHObradors (talk) 08:46, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

• More data:
  PubMed review articles from the past five years for Ewing's sarcoma: 76 results
  PubMed review articles from the past five years for Ewing sarcoma: 265 results
  Centre for Reviews and Dissemination: Ewing sarcoma: 4 results. Ewing's sarcoma: 0 results AdrianHObradors (talk) 09:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support ICD-11, and therefore WHO, uses Ewing (2B52) Little pob (talk) 12:00, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  I recalled that similar was discussed previously on other eponymous conditions. I've managed to track down two: Talk:Parkinson's disease/Archive 6#Move request and Talk:Alzheimer's disease/Archive 12#Alzheimer disease neither were moved for lack of support.

  For the attention of the closer (if any): I still support the move per WP:MEDTITLE; but support less strongly than before given WP:TITLECON Little pob (talk) 09:37, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Most users of the English language, including people who make guidelines, are not native. If you're not a native speaker of a language, it can be tricky to get a feel for its nuances. "Ewing's sarcoma" is an eponym, whereas "Ewing sarcoma" is... God knows what. "Ewing" is not the name of the sarcoma itself, but that of the person it's named after. Hence the "'s". And even if you were to argue that it is indeed the name of the sarcoma itself (which doesn't make much sense to me), then why "Ewing" rather than "ewing"? I'm sorry, but to me, "Ewing sarcoma" is outright ungrammatical. Try saying to a Spanish person that it's "sarcoma Ewing" rather than sarcoma de Ewing. Dr. Vogel (talk) 05:24, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
  • DrVogel, personally I am not a native English speaker, but I would bet that the people making guidelines are familiar enough with something like eponyms. Or at least the editors, for something like the WHO Blue Books. Anyway, I think this link: Eponym#Genitive versus attributive answers your questions: English can use either genitive case or attributive position to indicate the adjectival nature of the eponymous part of the term. (In other words, that part may be either possessive or non-possessive.) Thus Parkinson's disease and Parkinson disease are both acceptable. Medical dictionaries have been shifting toward nonpossessive styling in recent decades. Thus Parkinson disease is more likely to be used in the latest medical literature (especially in postprints) than Parkinson's disease.. In maths and physics there are many eponyms without the "s" as well: Fermat polygonal number theorem, Kepler conjecture, or most of Kelvins -- AdrianHObradors (talk) 09:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support...New classifications eg WHO Blue books... use Ewing sarcoma. Whispyhistory (talk) 20:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Similar to Down's/Down syndrome, both are used. In my experience, the former style is more commonly used for conditions and diseases in the UK and the latter in the US. Both are valid, so per WP:RETAIN we should keep as is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:21, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Necrothesp, the page for Down syndrome is Down syndrome, without the 's. So while both are used, its title is "Down". Also I doubt WP:RETAIN applies here, the only place were it still has the apostrophe is in the title. I'll add more info. All this ties back to a Canadian National Institutes of Health conference from 1975, were they reached the conclusion The possessive use of an eponym should be discontinued, since the author neither had nor owned the disorder. (see Lists of medical eponyms) And while it is argued that this might be incorrect, as the possessive case does not always imply possession, I believe that we should still go with it. Unless there has been any other conference since were the naming of diseases has also been discussed, we should go by the established. Also, as shown above, NHS and Bone Cancer research trust, both from UK, use Ewing. Plus ICD-11, from the WHO. -- AdrianHObradors (talk) 11:19, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
    • It's irrelevant what that page is called. It's called Down syndrome because it was created with that title. It wasn't moved to it. And it doesn't set any sort of precedent. My point is that both forms are used so WP:RETAIN applies. And why is a Canadian decision relevant to what titles Wikipedia gives to its articles? NHS usage, incidentally, is mixed,[1][2] and Sarcoma UK uses Ewing's Sarcoma.[3][4] -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:18, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
      • Necrothesp, I still believe WP:RETAIN doesn't apply. That is about the wording of an article, using colour vs color. In any case, the main pages for Ewing Sarcoma for NHS [5], Sarcoma UK [6] and Macmillan Cancer Support [7] use Ewing Sarcoma. And to your question of why a Canadian decision is relevant to Wikipedia titles, that is because that decision was reported in The Lancet, (founded by a British surgeon), where the quote in my previous comment was obtained from. This has led to a shift since then in the medical community and now ICD-11 does use "Ewing" and not "Ewings". And that is relevant to Wikipedia titles.
        Edit: I want to add that even if there was a difference between the varieties of English (which I insist I don't believe it is the reason), the international standard should be used. Like WHO or ICD, which both use "Ewing". -- AdrianHObradors (talk) 10:21, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
• Relisters Note : I see convincing evidence presented but consensus is balanced between Move and Not Move. The Dilemma of applying WP:RETAIN still remains. >>> Extorc.talk 08:33, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

References

• Support. Anecdotally I have always heard it referred to as Ewing sarcoma, and it would align with the general move towards dropping the apostrophe in eponymous syndromes and diseases. Elshad (talk) 18:22, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.