Talk:Gender inequality in South Korea

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hbkweon.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ljk3. Peer reviewers: Mlb13.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 September 2018 and 15 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pcl013.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 October 2019 and 13 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Akang8.

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deletion of sources problematic

this has already been noted on the editor's talk page, but deletion of sources problematic. south korea operates under a press club system, so Oh My News and other community-sourced venues have high repute--much higher than CNN Ireport, for example. Where are we going to source criminal activity if the press club itself fires reporters who report on political issues? -Samsara9 (talk) 20:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

The three sources I removed were as follows:

• A personal blog hosted on blogspot.kr
• HollywoodLife.com, a celebrity tabloid
• SexMenu.info, which is a pornographic site subtitled "Real Amateur Porn."

All of them obviously and blatantly fail reliable sourcing requirements. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 22:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

This is the East Asian press club system in a nut-shell. In America, reporters, almost like a police officer, 'walk a beat.' From day 1 of British, American, German, French, Swedish (etc.) cub reporter's career, the reporter is assigned to generate a quota of stories, including if he or she chooses, coverage of a politician's malfeseance. If the reporter fails to come up with a story after a reasonable amount of time, he or she is fired. The interest of the reporter and the public are aligned. This is the Korea/Japan press club system. A junior reporter, as described by Adelstein et al., is assigned for two to three years to pour sake for the politician, bring groceries to the politician, cultivate a relationship with the politician. After two or three years of service, whereupon the financial interests of the reporter begin to align with the politician in whom time and effort have been invested, the junior reporter is finally permitted to begin asking questions of the politician. The financial interest of the reporter and politician are aligned. The result: (at this completely random moment of comment generation, with the two main capital city newspapers being picked at random):

Washington Post main headline: Controversies show paradox of Obama’s style Korean Herald main headling: Park honors May 18 movement, calls for national unity

For this reason, blogs, even ones that would raise an eyebrow in the West, are the main source of news and credibility in a closed, financially-tied together newspaper market. This is why Missy USA broke the Yoon Chang-jung affair. This is why an apparent photo blog is a form of reporting that shows the subject's forcible entry and unwilling participation in prostitution activities (a subject that would result in full investigation and reporting in the West). -Samsara9 (talk) 03:29, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe that there are opposition news outlets in Korea that are also run outside the press system. Isn't OMN one of those? Unfortunately, even in countries with much worse press freedom situation (ex. China) this does not make us treat Chinese blogs are reliable. Rather, we will use Western sources (press). Anyway, press is not a very good source either way; please use ACADEMIC works. There should be quite a few on this topic. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I disagree entirely, some things should have academic articles used, other things call for different kinds of reporting. It is entirely ethnocentric to utilize rules of THUMB that work in the west for notability instead of honestly considering the quality of the source and system. 75.161.35.166 (talk) 11:06, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

References

press club system

this is the Japan article ->Mass media and politics in Japan, it happens to apply to S. Korea as well. Prominent politicians are "protected" by the press club, which only gains access after several years to politicians. -Samsara9 (talk) 20:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Mass media and politics in South Korea would make for a good article to write. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Reliable sources

It took me all of two minutes on Google to find these reliable sources which could be used to build the article:

• Sexist Taunt From North Korea Raises Gender Issue for the South’s New Leader - New York Times
• Gender arbitrage: profiting from sexism in South Korea - The Economist
• Sexism in Korea - again - The Korea Times
• In Sexist South Korea, The Girls Even The Score - New York Times
• Sexism's $89 Billion Price Is Past Sell-By Date For Asia - Bloomberg News
• Sexism, Ageism and Racism Prevalent Throughout the South Korean System of Education - paper from Korea University-IFLS hosted on the US Department of Education's Education Resources Information Center

Those were just in the first five pages of Google results for a search of sexism in South Korea. I'm sure there are many more. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 03:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

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Editing Proposal

Hi! For a class project, I would like to add more information about the different types of inequality in South Korea and the economic and social effects of underutilizing women in the South Korean workforce. I've listed some references I will use on my user page and included a couple of them here:

Abelmann, Nancy. “Narrating Selfhood and Personality in South Korea: Women and Social Mobility.” American Ethnologist, vol. 24, no. 4, 1997, pp. 786–812. JSTOR, JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/646809.

Monk-Turner, Elizabeth, and Charlie G. Turner. “South Korean Labor Market Discrimination against Women: Estimating Its Cost.” The American Journal of Economics and Sociology, vol. 53, no. 4, 1994, pp. 433–442. JSTOR, JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3487187.

Ljk3 (talk) 22:12, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello! Also for a class project, I would like to expand on the existing Professional Inequality section. I plan on adding a subsection on Occupational Segregation, in particular discussing high part-time employment rates for women, and gendered occupational differences. I will be using recent statistics found on OECD, as well as more slightly more dated scholarly articles as sources.

Some sample sources:

Monk-Turner, Elizabeth, and Charlie G. Turner. “South Korean Labor Market Discrimination against Women: Estimating Its Cost.” The American Journal of Economics and Sociology, vol. 53, no. 4, 1994, pp. 433–442. JSTOR, JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3487187.

Staff, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (2002-7). OECD Employment Outlook, June 2002. Washington: Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development. ISBN 9789264197787. OCLC 552011070

Pcl013 (talk) 01:16, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Detailed Editing Proposal

What I hope to achieve by revising and expanding this article is to describe the natality, professional, and household inequalities that are often overlooked and reveal the debilitating effects of these injustices. I’ve included a list of technical reasons to edit this article below:

• To begin, the article is rated as start-class and mid-importance by four Wikiprojects. It was also proposed for deletion 2 years ago.
• There are a few grammar mistakes, and the style of writing can be dry and hard to follow sometimes, especially in the “Statistics and international rankings” and “Education & Employment” sections.
• In addition to a two-sentence introduction, the article contains underdeveloped sections that are disorganized and vague – there is a section called “Analysis,” and the “History” section is a single paragraph.
• Among its limited references, there are several news sources. There is also a “Bibliography” subsection which contains one book that can easily be added to the “References” section.
• While the article does include core information and statistics related to the topic, expansion and further development of the information is needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ljk3 (talk • contribs) 16:45, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

I plan on editing and adding the following sections:

• Gender Statistics
• Global Rankings and international rankings
• History
• Culture
• Natality Inequality
• Professional Inequality
• Employment
• Household Inequality

The first thing I will add to the article is a paragraph to the introduction of the article, briefly describing the prevalence of gender inequality in South Korea and its effects. I decided to organize the article according to the three types of inequality that are most common in South Korea.

1 Gender Statistics // 2 Global Rankings: I will add more updated statistics if possible and organize these sections in a clearer way, potentially with bullet points or a table. I will also add a short paragraph regarding issues about specific indices and measurements under “Global Rankings.”

3 History: Since this is such a broad topic, I will focus on aspects of history that contributed to gender inequality and/or perpetuated gender inequality, such as the period of comfort women, Park Geun-hye’s election and scandal, etc. I will also show the changes or lack of change in gender inequality throughout history.

4 Culture: Similar to the “History” section, I will focus on aspects of South Korean culture that drive and perpetuate gender inequality, such as Confucian values, traditional gender roles and expectations, etc. The original article contains basic information about this already, so I will add more specific evidence and information from scholarly sources.

5 Natality Inequality: I plan for this section to be relatively short, but I do want to include information about sex ratios and South Korea’s missing women. If this section is too short, I will add this information as a subtopic under “Gender Statistics.”

6 Professional Inequality // 6.1 Employment: This section will revolve around the wage gap, employment, and gendered professions. I will describe gender discrimination in the workplace and explain why it occurs. I will also add information about maternity leave, the economic effects of underutilizing women, etc. This section will be the longest because it is the most studied gender inequality in South Korea.

7 Household Inequality: This section will focus on household inequality as a result of traditional Confucian gender roles. I will describe examples of this inequality, add more specific evidence and information from scholarly sources, and show how household inequality perpetuates many other types of inequality.

To review the references I plan to use for each section, please visit my user page. Ljk3 (talk) 16:41, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Editing Update 1

I added tables to the statistics sections and updated most of the statistics to the most recent available data. I added all the new sections I talked about in my detailed editing proposal and rearranged the original content. I made many grammar and stylistic edits. I am always open to feedback, so please let me know what you think of the new edits. Thank you! Ljk3 (talk) 22:23, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Peer Evaluation 1

Hi! I thought you did a great job with this article! Your intro really grabs the readers attention and keeps them interested. You go in depth into the different types of inequalities and how they all differ in relation to gender. I also really liked how you used tables to display data. I suggest adding a bit more about historical events that pertain to men, as this may show how current gender norms came about in South Korea. Additionally, I recommend fully writing out the studies of scholarly articles that you reference. For example, instead of saying “Han and Chu," you say “A study done by Han and Chu….” Additionally, there was one spelling error that can be easily fixed. Overall, your article looks great. The most important thing you could do is add to political inequality as well as add to historical events that influenced gender norms in South Korea. I'm really looking forward to reading your final article! Mlb13 (talk) 04:15, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review

Your article is very good, and raises many important issues. I am impressed by the amount of statistics you provided, it really added to the credibility of the article! Nice job. The only thing I came across was how some sections were small but had the potential to contain alot of information pertinent to the topic. Otherwise, solid article! Natsz72 (talk) 03:43, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Cull back?

Mathglot, why did you cull back my edits? I was following the WP:REFERS/WP:ISAWORDFOR and WP:REPEATLINK guidelines. Nowearskirts (talk) 07:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

There's also a WP:SCAREQUOTE violation you restored, and a WP:HEAD violation you restored. Nowearskirts (talk) 07:31, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Nowearskirts:, there was nothing wrong with your edit, which was an improvement to the article. My apologies, that was a fat finger error on my part, now reverted. (By the way, the term is either cull, or cut back, but not *cull back. ) Happy editing! Mathglot (talk) 17:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Mathglot:, I wondered if it was a mistake.

Yes, I've been transitioning into using "cull." For example, here. Nowearskirts (talk) 07:12, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

That's a slightly odd usage, that may make other editors wonder, especially if used all by itself. A typical usage might be related to selective reduction of wildlife, such as this: "Predators including wolves can cull weak or sick deer, elk and caribou much better than any wildlife 'manager'." It can be extended by metaphor to other uses, and I can imagine an edit summary something like, "Cull excess use of images causing WP:SANDWICHed text", or similar. But, "Cull" all by itself, is a bit cryptic. Mathglot (talk) 07:38, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

South Korea/North Korea/Korea

We need an article on Gender inequality in North Korea (another student project, this one supervised by me, may help: User:Jzhdylb/Gender equality in North Korea). That said, as often happens with Korean topics, we may need an artcle on pre-Korean War Korea (Gender inequality in Korea) dealing with history. I suggest splittign the first half of the Gender_inequality_in_South_Korea#History into such an article. Thoughts? @Toobigtokale _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Currently the North Korea equivalent title redirects to Women's rights in North Korea (for which there is no equivalent Women's rights in South Korea), but they are probably viable as separate topics. As for the pre-division history, I would suggest merging that into the short History of women in Korea article, which could use some attention. CMD (talk) 05:27, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment I'm not sure what the best thing to do is. I agree that women's rights and gender inequality may have separate notability. On the other hand, like @CMD has suggested, I think we should also try to flesh out existing articles with high topic overlap before a split. toobigtokale (talk) 16:28, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis @Toobigtokale Note that my student's article has been published. I still think we should combine the two history sections (mini forks effectively) into one article that would be Gender inequality in Korea, although I am not opposed to seeing a merge of this to History of women in Korea. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:25, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Nice work. Merging remains my preference, and perhaps your student might like to add a link to Gender inequality in North Korea somewhere in the higher-level article! CMD (talk) 16:20, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis I've added the links for now, feel free to add more if I missed anything. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:23, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

And I'll create a disambig for now at the "in Korea" page. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:23, 25 December 2023 (UTC)