Talk:Huītzilōpōchtli

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Pronunciation

How about a pronunciation key? I would add one but I have no idea how Huitzilopochtli is said and I'm afraid the spelling is a bastardized American form.

Sultan Yakub

His name can be heard here: http://members.aol.com/emdelcamp/huitz.wav The "HU" in Nahuatl makes a "w" sound, like in Huehueteotl's name and Huitzilpochtli. Xuchilbara (talk) 00:22, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have any proof that the Aztec Empire fell at the end of its calendar's 52 year cycle? As I remember it, One Rabbit, the beginning of their calendar, fell somewhere around 1454 or 1455. This was a year of severe famine and drought, and a blemish on the reign of Motecuzoma I. If we push another 52 years forward, we get 1506-1507 as the date that the Aztecs fell, which isn't even remotely correct. Therefore, until someone can substantiate this claim, I'm editing it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sultan Yakub (talk • contribs) 19:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Hay guyz. This article is actually pretty badly written, and it needs to cite more sources. I'll try to deal with as much of the writing as I can, but can the author please cite his sources? I don't know the code for "citation needed".

Stormchaser (talk) 17:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Wait, never mind. Didn't see the thing at the top. Sorry.

Stormchaser (talk) 17:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The name Huitzilopokhtli is formed by joining four Sanskrit words- Hu + itzi + lopok + htli - which mean-hu = Su ( good/beautiful),/ itzi =( Akshi) = eye ,/ lopok = lopaka/lupta= (missing)/ ,htli = stree ( woman )/. Thus the God is in fact a Goddess whose one eye is missing. His/ her one breast was also severely wounded by a spear which pierced his Armour,thereby making him fall forward and leave the battle field.Thus the great warrior God was in reality a woman, but was brought up as a man,from the time of his/her birth. He lost one eye and one breast in a great war with an Asura king called Tarakasura, an Asura who wore a medallion of star around his neck. This great God was worshiped since the times of King David. The great God is none other than Lord Vela who terrorized the entire Middle-East with his army of Naga soldiers (the modern day Gurkhas. He is also called by various names such as – Shanmukha, Kumara, Skanda Kartikeya, and also Kubera. The people of Tamilnadu( India) worship him by the name Vela (one who holds a spear). He had established six forts in TamilNadu,which were used as military camps as well as go- downs for storing the precious spices. The temples constructed on these six mountains at a later date are very sacred for the people of Tamilnadu. The south Indians also call him as Subrahmanya,which is a misnomer for the word Sarpamanian (a serpent who wears a diamond on his head ). In the Middle East He was worshiped by many ancient civilizations. Temple of Baal (Bel) in Palmyra,Syria, Baal of Haran, Baal- the chief of the Canaanite Pantheon, the rider of the skies etc. According to the Holy Bible Prophet Eliza demonstrated a miracle before the 450 priests of Baal. In Tora the word Be’allim is used in connection with Baal, which means a spear in South Indian languages. Ballam/ Ballemu is called Bhala in Hindi. Name of his mother Coatlicue is KRITTIKA. There are in fact six or seven Krittikas or Krityas in Hindu mythology. They are also called Matrukas. The Krittikas are fearful warrior Goddesses who are associated with Goddess Kali, but were loaned to Lord Shiva, when peace was established between the two. If Shiva hands over a token or a medallion with specific number of Krittikas to any person, they will protect him 24 hours a day as long as he wears the medallion on his body. The details of the birth of Skanda are available in Skandapurana and a rationalized version is available in the ‘ Kumara Smbhava’ of Kalidasa. The name Ometecotl means Amara Matruka tra - the protector of the mother of Amaras(Gods)/(Devas) or it may simply mean that he tried to protect his mother Krittika. The name of the half moon Quetzal coatr ( Quetzal = Krittikas,co-atra: fellow traveler )- means the half sun that co- travels with the constellation of Krityas of the ‘Great Bear’, during the month which starts from 16 December to 14 January. The winter solstice is celebrated as Makara Sankraman (when the Sun is on the tropic of Capricorn, according to the Hindu calendar). Perhaps half of the Sun only is visible in the month of December in Mexico. His sister Koyala+ axau + qui - a woman with the eyes of a Koyal (a black bird which sings like a cuckoo in the Spring) became the moon that followed the course of the constellation during that month. The story about Vela trying to kill his mother because of his ignoble birth seems to be added locally by the Nagas to appease the other tribes. However the local scholars of the Middle East condemned Vela regarding his birth, and called him an abomination, because he was born by the process of artificial insemination of a blond woman, with the Semen of Lord shiva. The semen was obtained by exciting Lord Shiva with heavenly music and erotic dances of the Apsaras, when He was in meditation. There was an ejaculation and the semen seems to have been collected very carefully and preserved by Lord Indra and other Gods. This was the usual practice through which Naga queens/who functioned as kings used to produce children in those days. The Naga society functioned like a bee-hive.( Ref: Polyandry in Tibet). The four hundred brothers were the priests of God Bela/Vela and hence they were symbolically represented as the multitude of stars that are present in the constellation' Great Bear. Vela is described as a fiery star, because the astronomical chart showing the relative positions of about 43 important stars of the constellation is called ‘ SRI CHAKRA’ prepared by the ancient astronomers of North-West India. The Star of David shows the position of only six stars. Actually the diagram contains four equilateral triangles drawn one above other paralleled, their vertices pointing upwards ,and five equilateral triangles with their vertices downward cutting the up/erect triangles and thus making 43 triangles in total. All the points of intersections of these nine triangles show the position of a number of stars in the constellation.The vertical triangles represent the Male organ which is fiery. The triangles facing downward are called the 'divine feminine'in the famous book 'Davinci Code'. This diagram was the only navigational tool available in those days. If a line is drawn joining the top two stars and the line is extended downwards like an arrow, the arrow will show the direction of the Pole Star (The small bear). The sailors had to depend on the, moon and the constellation Vela to steer their way across the oceans. For this purpose they had to draw the ‘Sri Chakra’ on a shield like object and punch holes to look at the main six or seven stars through the holes,and navigate accordingly. Nahuatra (Nasua + tra) month was the month during which the Nahua people (people with long-pointed bird-like noses) were protected by the Naga soldiers of God Vela, by their timely intervention in a great war of the Nasua People with some other tribe, even though they are sworn enemies. That is why, both the snake and bird people celebrate the month, during which time the Sun stays in the constellation Great Bear. The birth day of God Vela is celebrated all over South India, and especially in Tamilnadu,in the month of December on the sixth day after the new moon day. This year The birth day of Lord Vela ( called Subrahmanya Shashti) ) falls on 8-12-2013. I am only doubtful about the seeds which are mixed with honey to make the skull shaped God. Are they Sesame seeds or Ragi seeds or the seeds of a plant,the tender leaves of which are used to prepare various dishes? The names Tillan and Talppalan sound as if they are derived from the Sanskrit word‘ Til’( Sesame)and ' taila' ( the sesame oil), because Sesame only is connected with death ceremonies or skull worship.

                                            117.195.234.157 (talk) 15:20, 20 July 2013 (UTC)Bksatyanarayana

Stormchaser, where did you get the comparative religion/Any particular text(s)? Thanks. 2605:6000:C741:A900:4CFF:BFEE:E339:F529 (talk) 09:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)jc-at-ccad/march16,2014.2605:6000:C741:A900:4CFF:BFEE:E339:F529 (talk) 09:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Genealogy

The article says: "...His sister was Malinalxochitl...". Then in the next paragraph: "...His sister, Coyolxauhqui...". So which one was it? The answer is Coyolxauhqui. Over all this article is pretty bad.Senor Cuete (talk) 19:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete

Both Malinalxochitl and Coyolxauhqui appear as sisters of Huitzilopochtli, albeit in different contexts in the mythological accounts.

Coyolxauhqui appears in the legend of Huitzilopochtli's birth/origins at Coatepec (cf. Sahagun Book III), where she is his elder (half-)sister who, enraged/ashamed at her mother Coatlicue becoming (unwittingly) pregnant with Huitzilopochtli, stirs up her brothers —the Centzonuitznaua— to have her mother killed. Huitzilopochtli, still in the womb, consoles his mother that he'll protect her, then is born fully-armed just as Coyolxauhqui & her brothers are about to strike. He dices up Coyolxauhqui and sends her remains tumbling down the hill.

Malinalxochitl appears in the context of the legendary Mexica migrations (such as recounted in Duran), where she is his malevolent sister. The Mexica, fed up with her magic, petition Huitzilopochtli to get rid of her, but are advised instead to pack up and leave her behind when she's asleep without her knowing where they have gone. The mexica do this, and Malinalxochitl is unable to find them again, so she founds the town of Malinalco. She later bore a son, Copil, who pledges revenge for his mother's abandonment. He sets out to track the mexica down, but before he can cause too much trouble Huitzilopochtli gets wind of this and warns the mexica, who eventually capture and sacrifice Copil. Huitzilopochtli tells the priests to fling his heart into Lake Texcoco, where it lands in the spot where they would later build Tenochtitlan.

Both of these accounts have been seen as possible allegories of actual but separate & distant political machinations. See for eg the ref for Kay Almere Read.

Agree that these and other accounts concerning Huitzilopochtli should be made more distinct from one another to avoid confusion, and each should certainly be clearly annotated to indicate which source(s) the tales come from. --cjllw ʘ TALK 06:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

"According to ancient Aztec fable...":

1. If there's no source for this it should be removed since this at best an obscure story.

2. It shouldn't be in the Genealogy section. 23:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete

Removed that 'birthday party' para, if not an actual prank then it was a very garbled account of some minor tale.

Seems a bit odd to me to have a 'genealogy' section on an article about a mythical entity; if and when the article gets an overhaul it should probably be refactored into a structure more in keeping with the subject. --cjllw ʘ TALK 23:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Otherwise Malinalxochitl is frequently confused by Coyolxauhqui in the same context, because sources says Malinalxochitl is daughter of an earth mother (fertility) but Malinalxochitl doesn't appears as daughter of Coatlicue, only Centzonmimixcoa, Centzonhuitznahua, Huitzilopochtli, Coyolxauhqui. But according to sources of the creation of the 4 sun, Coatlicue is sister of Xochitlicue and Chimalman, all they are goddess of fertility (earth), but Chimalman couldn't be her mother because she's the only mother of Quetzalcoatl, Xolotl and Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli according to the Codex Chimalpopoca. Xochitlicue is the misunderstood mother of Malinalxochitl. --187.146.39.23 (talk) 18:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

How even a charlatan can sometimes provide a clue

Carlos Castañeda may have been a charlatan, and much of his material worse than misleading about Mesoamerican beliefs and spirituality. Yet one of his most compelling images - that of Death as an advisor, for ever hovering on your left-hand side - strikes me as giving us a clue about the symbolism of Huitzilopochtli, "hummingbird of the left". — Preceding unsigned comment added by UnknownSage (talk • contribs) 17:01, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Fifth Sun?

The article says Huitzilopochtli is the Fifth Sun, but other articles variously state Nanahuatzin and Tonatiuh to be the Fifth Sun. What's with the disparity? 207.216.218.214 (talk) 00:52, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Huitzilopochtli definitely is not the Fifth Sun. --Giggette (talk) 17:27, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I can't find where it says that. Senor Cuete (talk) 01:01, 4 August 2013 (UTC)Senor Cuete

I was looking at [the wiki page for the Five Suns myth], which stated Huitzilopochtli was the 5th Sun. I figured it out, though. Huitzilopochtli's article says "Huitzilopochtli replaced Nanahuatzin, the solar god from the Nahua legend" and Nanahuatzin's article says he is the Fifth Sun in Nahua cosmology, so by taking Nanahuatzin's place, Huitzilopochtli became the fifth sun god to the Aztecs, hence why he "was said to be in a constant struggle with the darkness and required nourishment in the form of sacrifices to ensure the sun would survive the cycle of 52 years". 207.216.218.214 (talk) 19:48, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Hue-tzil-o-poch-tli?

Could it be Hue-tzil-o-poch-tli (old tzil's young one) instead?

Just granpa (talk) 04:14, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Subjectivity of "rationalization of conversion" paragraph under History

The (currently) second-to-last paragraph of the History section reads like an angry condemnation of the Spaniard missionaries and conquistadors. While personally I agree with the idea that the justifications for the violence committed by the Spanish were weak at best, words used in this paragraph like "so called" and "supposedly" sound judgmental rather than like a neutral encyclopedia article laying out objective fact. TL;DR: This paragraph reads like a forum post not an encyclopedia article.

72.81.132.55 (talk) 23:47, 6 October 2018 (UTC)Chris K. 6 Oct 2018

Yes this paragraph is extremely unencyclopedic. It should be deleted. Senor Cuete (talk) 23:00, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Huitzilopochtli V.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:08, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Modern Presence

As the Aztec empire was finally dismantled by the Spaniards in 1521, faith in its mythology largely died with it as the Spaniards destroyed the majority of shrines and temples and forced conversion to Christianity.

Most remaining Aztec settlements now follow a religion much closer to monotheism and gods such as huītzilōpōchtli are now essentially thought of as pure myth.

Ancient gods are known to play a role in what we know as modern spirituality and during shamanic meditation practices, “epiphanies” in which people have interacted with hummingbird like deities have occurred.

Some have claimed to see a hummingbird awaken while sleeping inside a tree hollow, just as huītzilōpōchtli has been described.

The deity is said to guide us down a path of light, hope and extreme optimism but also of self righteousness, conflict and hatred for those who oppose us, which could be linked to the Aztec god’s rule over the sun and war. Tr1pt4m1n (talk) 04:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)