Talk:Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria

Fork

This newly-"created" article is a cut-and-paste fork of about 80% of the material in Galicia (Central Europe). The problems with this are:

• The cut-and-paste doesn't acknowledge the source in the edit summary, orphaning the long edit history of the original material. See Wikipedia:Copyrights.
• It is a content fork: an exact duplicate of a very large block of material which is now in two places. If this warrants its own article, then the source should be pared down in summary style. See Wikipedia:Content forking.

 —Michael Z. 2006-11-27 16:17 Z

I restored a redirect back to a source. First, forks are harmful in multiple ways. Second, by rule of thumb many articles on historic territories we now have cover both the territory in general and an the territorial provinces/states. See, eg. Moldavia, which is about both the Moldavian principality and the historic territory, or Bukovina. --Irpen 17:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. This entity should have an article of its own, and using material from G(CE) to create it is a normal Wiki growth procedure. Both articles are linked - this one notes that the main history article is at G(CE), and that article links to this one - so all is perfectly normal. This is also not a content fork. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Nominal Independence?

This article states that the Kingdom was independent in from mid-1917 to the end of 1918. There are no sources that I know of which mention this, can one be cited?--68.1.119.40 (talk) 02:35, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Recent reverts

The discussion is under the same subject at Austria-Hungary talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC))

Borders map

The map showing Galicia's borders and modern state borders is in Spanish and, as its creator mentions based on a German version. Since this is English WP perhaps one of you AaronCR7god/HurricaneLaura2020, Amitchell125, BD2412, Boubloub, HeyElliott, IvanScrooge98, Laurel Lodged, Phaisit16207, Synotia or Wario2 could replace it with an English version. Mcljlm (talk) 23:18, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I don't have those skills. But it's such a good map that I would hate to lose it, even if it is in Spanish. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:47, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I wondered if someone could create an English version based on the German or Spanish versions. Mcljlm (talk) 14:42, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Sure, I'm gonna translate it (not only to English but to other languages as well). Wario2 (talk) 18:03, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

@Wario2: I wish I'd replied a little sooner. I was going to say you shouldn't bother with it as the map is pretty inaccurate, so translating it in its current state, particularly into several languages, seems counter-productive. However, I see you've done it already, at least for English. (I do notice though that you haven't attributed the original author which is required by the Creative Commons Attribution and Free Art Licenses used.)

Regardless, I am in the process of making a sort-of hybrid of this map and a partitions map such as Kingdom of Galicia.png (i.e. it shows the various historical parts of Galicia and Lodomeria on modern borders) to a high level of detail and precision (similar to a locator map).

If a simpler map like the current one is preferred it would be very straightforward to do (and I will probably do it regardless once I am finished), but a consensus on which "version" of Galicia and Lodomeria to do (with or without Kraków, Bukovina, Zamość etc) would be good.

P.S. Mcljlm, I took the liberty of changing the links in your "refs" to standard wikilinks rather than URLs. I hope you don't mind. (For future reference you can do this by adding a colon : at the beginning of the link so that it displays as a link rather than an image.)

Alphathon /'æɫ.fə.θɒn/ ^(talk) 22:17, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Wario2. I've only just come across your reply as the notification only seems to have appeared in the last day or so. Thanks to you too Alphathon for your changes. I don't mind at all; useful to know about. If I'd noticed your December map edit I would have pinged you but I only included those who'd edited this year. Mcljlm (talk) 03:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Contribution (some reliable information and thoughtful consideration)

In terms of wages, if Lower Austria was indexed at 100, wages in Lviv grew from 47.4 in 1895 to 62.4 in 1913 (Also Dalmatia was even poorer than East Galicia). While economic historian David Good sees in this increase an indication of diminishing regional disparity throughout the empire, the figures also show dramatically how impoverished Galicia’s workers were. https://books.google.ca/books?id=jNaFc1OdN-QC&pg=PA44&dq=poverty+galicia+austria+dalmatia&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3dFiUf7CEqSU0QGN64HIBA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=poverty%20galicia%20austria%20dalmatia&f=true

Alison Fleig Frank’s book above also mentioned lengthy and complex battle for land and mineral rights, where there were those (polish gentry and ironically some Ruthenian peasants) who were against the use of their land for industrial development and oil given to foreign hand, but there were also those who supported use of land for industrial development. There were also those who support that Imperial Mining Prerogative should retain ownership of minerals and oil resources, but those from the Polish Gentry who insisted and later secured mineral rights to petroleum products in the hands of private landowners. In the case of the oil industry, the empire followed the American pattern and demonstrated considerable respect for private property by allowing each individual landowner to decide how to exploit or refuse to exploit, mineral rights to his or her land.

Also according to the chart list by https://books.google.ca/books?id=TepeBUZDCKsC&pg=PA230&dq=per+capita+growth+regions+austria-hungary+dalmatia&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_tRiUerEIYaS0QG0w4HQAQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=per%20capita%20growth%20regions%20austria-hungary%20dalmatia&f=false

And https://books.google.ca/books?id=TepeBUZDCKsC&dq=per+capita+growth+regions+austria-hungary+dalmatia&pg=PA230&redir_esc=y In 1890, the per capita product, in 2010 dollars, for Galicia was $1,947. In contrast, the per capita product in Austria was $3,005 and in Bohemia was $2,513. Galicia was not as poor as eastern Hungary, whose per capita product was $1,824 and Croatia-Slavonia, whose per capita product in 2010 dollars was $1,897. Galicia's per capita product was almost identical to that of Transylvania, which was $1,956 in 2010 dollars. Galicia's annual growth rate from 1870 to 1910 was 1.21 percent, slightly lower than the imperial average

The emancipation of serfs in 1848 did not improve their situation significantly, as they were given poorly-paid jobs by the local major landowners, who owned 43% of the arable land in 1848, which did little to improve the peasant’s welfare from the previous feudal relations. Other changes in the law made the peasants also lose access to many forests and pastures, which the large landowners tried to secure for themselves (AF Frank, JE Bodnar, Halsted) Also, 6% of Ukrainian speakers engaged in non-agricultural occupation vs 33% of polish speakers, as AF Frank said, “It was Polish landlords who retained control over forests and meadows (and hence over sources of fuel and building materials) and blocked any reforms put forward in the imperial Parliament intended to improve the social or economic status of Austria’s disenfranchised peasant population. Indeed, if the emperor could grant rights that were worthless as long as the Polish nobility prevented their exercise, what good was the emperor?” https://books.google.ca/books?id=jNaFc1OdN-QC&pg=PA46&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Also, Frank asked the ultimate question and I quote, "was Galician poverty really beneficial to Viennese policy makers? Why would Vienna, eager to promote industrialization and catch up to its economically more vibrant western neighbors, be content to let the Galician economy rot? Recent research has shown the extent to which Austria-Hungary’s economy was much more vital than historians had previously allowed, but this vitality did not somehow extend to Galicia. That this failure to thrive was caused by a poorly defined colonial policy (as Galicia was definitely not the only poor region in AH, Dalmatia, Croatia-Slavonia, Transylvania, Tirol were poor as well) however has not yet been proven, and the real source of Galician poverty puzzled contemporaries…" A insightful, balanced, fair and non-nationalist examination and approach is always helpful. 2604:3D09:D07D:6250:0:0:0:3871 (talk) 19:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

An excerpt from Frank's book on Industrial Development of Galicia

Here’s an excerpt from Alison Fleig Frank’s book on industrial development of Galicia in late 19 century, after a decade of steady growth, on 4 July 1895, MacGarvey and Bergheim transformed their private firm into a joint-stock company that became one of the leading corporations in the Galician oil industry: the Galizische Karpathen-Petroleum Actien-Gesellschaft vormals Bergheim & MarGarvey… The company’s headquarters were in Vienna, its machine shops and foundry were in Glinik Maryampolski… The Carpathian Company was founded with a capital of 10 million crowns and ran with equipment and tools and on property that had been purchased for 8 million crowns. In its first year of existence, the new joint-stock company produced nearly 35 million km of crude oil, 17.5 million of which were refined in its own refinery in Glinik Maryampolski. By the early 20 century, the company employed 2400 workers, owned steam engines and water power in the strength of 2800 horsepower, and produced crude oil, refined petroleum, gasoline, lubricating oil, paraffin, steam drilling engines, drilling rigs, boilers, pumps, core drills, winding machines, portable electric cranes, and eccentric drilling bits that had been patented by McGarvery himself... 2604:3D09:D07D:6250:0:0:0:3871 (talk) 20:41, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Military Service

Military service was long and not easy back then, but wasn't it a way of employment or job security for poor people and peasants around the world back then? At least being in the military meant the peasant-turned-soilder could earn a somewhat stable amount of income. 2604:3D09:D07D:6250:0:0:0:3871 (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)