Talk:Kurds in Sweden

The article is black washed

Kurdish articles are black washed and some users have added a new "Issues section" to all Kurdish articles and explained some specific honour killings with details. I checked British Turks, British Pakistanis, British Indian and other different people in western countries, they haven't added such sections even though some of them have similar issues and even much worse. Also, there is no such issue honour killing among the Kurds, if some individuals commit crimes, it doesn't mean it's issue among that ethnicity. You need strong and reliable source for such claim. Ferakp (talk) 21:08, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Here is a potentially useful source for this article. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:59, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Did you really check these articles? They mention political issues and gender violence like forced marrriage, cousin marriage and female foeticide. The topic of HBV (Honor based violence) is notable, at least as relevant as Nigerians_in_the_Netherlands#Crime or Turks_in_Germany#Integration_problems or Moroccan-Dutch#LGBT-related_attitudes.‎

Some of these cases are very notable, especially the Honor killing of Pela and Fatime, which led to the creation of National Organization GAPF (the acronym stands for Never Forget Pela and Fadime). The organization's name is taken from Pela Atroshi and Fadime Sahindal which is Sweden's best-known and high-profile cases of honor killings . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.127.213.144 (talk) 23:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Good edits, but still not an issue to mention here. You are showing them as an issue. Adding those persons to the see also section was great idea. You should add those to the Kurdish women article.Ferakp (talk) 08:52, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

It is unclear to me why material about Kurdish women murdered in Sweden belongs at Kurdish women but not at Kurds in Sweden. What's the rationale here? Cordless Larry (talk) 09:59, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry: My point is that this same user is copy pasting the same "issue" to all "Kurdish in X" articles. He is trying to black wash all articles with specific details of crimes. As I said before, those honour killings would be better if they belong to the Kurdish women or Honour killing articles, not here. Just imagine, how Turks in Germany, British Pakistani and other ethnicities in Europe would look like if I gather their "notable" crimes and add them to their articles. I bet, all those articles will be full of crimes, their details and thus their will be massive edit wars. Have you read British Americans? Do you see any "issues" or list of crimes with specific details? Adding some crimes with their details will simply black wash the article. If there is honour killings, it's good to mention them, but don't need to fill the article with honour killings issues. If you look the edits of this user, you will realize that he has literally ***** all Kurdish articles. For example, he has filled Kurdish women article with tons of crimes and their details. I have 63 times proved that his edits violates WP:FAKE, WP:ORIGINAL, WP:RELIABLE, WP:NPOV and many other rules. Compare Kurdish women to Women in Iran, Women in Pakistan or Women in Iraq. You will realize that none of those articles mention details of crimes or have been filled with list of crimes. Seriously, just compare them. Ferakp (talk) 10:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

British Americans is hardly comparable, because that is a huge, diverse group, whereas Kurds in Sweden constitute a smaller, more cohesive community which has experienced specific issues with integration, which are documented in reliable sources. A better comparison would be with an article such as British migration to Spain, which does have a social issues section. As for "filling" the article, surely the solution here is to expand the other sections so that this material, which is not particularly lengthy, does not dominate. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:44, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Your comments are also inconsistent. Above, you state "You should add those to the Kurdish women article", but then you complain that "he has filled Kurdish women article with tons of crimes and their details". Cordless Larry (talk) 10:57, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry: Kurds in Sweden is diverse group, Kurds are usually diverse group. There are Kurds from Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Armenia. They have different languages, cultures, religions, citizenship and even identity. These article are full of crimes, mainly added by this user who I reported. This user has also added details of crimes and I don't understand, why Kurdish articles contain such crimes and details, but Turks in Germany, British Pakistani, British Turks, Assyrians in Sweden and all other articles are cleaned from such crimes and sections. Issues like employment and racism are appropriate things to mention, but talking about crimes and fill the article with their details is totally crazy thing. If you really don't see any problems with edits of this user, I will start to fill all articles of Turks, Pakistanis, Assyrians, British, Arabs and other ethnicities with their crimes, gangs and details of these things. I just want you know that there will dozens of edit wars and I will show this page and you as a proof that I am allowed to add those things to their page. Just let you know that for example, there have been even books written about crimes of Turks, their gangs and notable crimes.[1], [2], [3]. Just because there are no crimes mentioned in those articles don't mean that there are no crimes of those people, I have realized that it creates a huge edit wars and users usually discuss and remove them. The same thing with Assyrians in Sweden, this article will be full of notable crimes[4] and gangs. My comments are not inconsistent, I just meant that if there are honour related crimes, add them to the Kurdish women. The user won't add because he/she has already added to there, as I said, this user is copy pasting everything from article to another. Ferakp (talk) 19:26, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it's rather hypocritical that you would object to this material about Kurds, when you yourself added this to Turks_in_Germany, Ferakp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.127.213.144 (talk • contribs) 11:28, 21 May 2016‎ (UTC)

@Ferakp: In the articles you link to there are sections on gender violence like forced marrriage, cousin marriage and female foeticide. There is also an integration issues section and a Allegations of extremism section in some of the articles you linked. Honor based violence among Kurds is as notable as these sections, if not even more. The seriousness of these issues is well known among Kurdish human rights groups, and it is only chauvinist nationalists that would like to hide them. And in other articles there are sections on Nigerians_in_the_Netherlands#Crime or Turks_in_Germany#Integration_problems or Moroccan-Dutch#LGBT-related_attitudes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.127.213.144 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Do you understand what it is the difference between writing specific crimes, their details and talking about integration problems usually. There is no single book or article which says it's an issue for Diaspora Kurds. You are talking, but not using any sources. There is a huge rape and drug problems among Turks in Germany, do you have any idea how would their article look like if I start to mention their gangs, notable crimes, rape cases and statistics? Kurdish women problems belong to Kurdish women article, not here. Ferakp (talk) 19:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

There are studies focusing on this topic, for example this report here. Some of these incidents were also very notable, and led to major public/political debates and were presented in films. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.127.213.144 (talk) 19:49, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

@176.127.213.144: It looks like you don't understand me, I said above that there are tons of articles, studies, documentaries and news about Turkish, Arab, Pakistani and Assyrian gangs, crimes and mafias. If you for example think studies like this are good reason to fill Kurdish articles with such crimes and not use appropriate language to mention or transfer them to the right articles, just imagine how would Turks in Germany would look like if I add following crimes and details:
1. 36 boys gang, its members and crimes. I would also mention their "political activism".
2. Turkish mafias and their activities in United Kingdom (They have both Turkish and Kurdish members, but they are oginally Turkish)
3. Osmanen Germania which wants to bring Ottoman Empire to Germany and their crimes
4. Massive rape statistics of Turks in Germany
5. High crime rates of Turks in Germany
I would continue to bring articles, books and notable crimes and 50-60% of the Turks in Germany will consist of their crimes and immigration problems. The same thing with Arabs, Assyrians and Pakistanis in Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, the United Kingdom and in other European countries. Ferakp (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but more generally, I would suggest opening an RfC on this issue. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry: No need to RfC, it's impossible to stop 176.127.213.144. The user will change IP address and continue just like nothing happened with new IP address. I have dozens of times tried to talk about this with some administrators and other users, but the result has been a big zero. The only thing which the user understands is black wash Kurdish articles and copy paste the same crimes from article to another. I try to explain here that Kurdish articles are black washed and we need neutralize them, other similar articles like Turks in Germany, Assyrians in Sweden don't mention single crime or have sections like this article, even though they have much worse situation. It's not right to mention specific crimes in the article like this. When I am trying to talk about this, the result is always the same, the article stays black washed and the user continues its disruptive editing. I am really tired of this and I start to understand why so many users are leaving Wikipedia. Ferakp (talk) 21:26, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

An RfC would bring in more editors with fresh eyes, and help to establish a more stable consensus that would have to be respected. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

References

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Notable people

Since the IP doesn't want to take it to talk, I take it. We need to think about the readers. Will they like to read a list of names or will they like to read what the respective people have done? I assume it is the latter. If you want a list of people, create a list. There is already a list of Kurds. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:56, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

The edit above has been adjusted as I thought it was another article talk page.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 23:18, 6 June 2022 (UTC)