Talk:Language shift

The Netherlands as an Example?

The Dutch may be shifting to English. For example, university classes there are now all taught in English, not Dutch any longer. Should this be added to the article? 71.34.146.193 (talk) 19:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. In case some Dutch families decided to speak to their babies in English rather than in Dutch (or Frisian, etc.), then it should be added. --Jotamar (talk) 17:10, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

France, Italy and Germany

We need sections about language shift in those countries. Those countries, especially France, are probably the best example of recent and, in many cases, successful language shift from the dozens of regional languages to the "foreign" so-called standard language. --Belchman (talk) 13:02, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

The Finland example

The Finland example is clearly erroneous, as the development described under this heading has nothing to do with language change. The decrease in the percentage of Swedish speakers in Finland is mainly due to two things: emigration to Sweden and the increase in Finland's overall population size, it is only to a lesser extent due to language shift. Since 1900 the Finnish population has more or less doubled (see the official Finnish statistics http://www.stat.fi/tup/suoluk/suoluk_vaesto_en.html), whereas the number of Swedish speakers has decreased by about 50,000 people. The estimated number of Finland Swedes living in Sweden is 60,000 (Info from National Union of Finland Swedes in Sweden), which means, that apart from emigration the Swedish-speaking population has not decreased to any significant extent. The fact that a traditional linguistic minority gets smaller percentagewise does not mean that there has been language shift. 130.232.221.241 (talk) 17:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Language shift/reform

A section regarding the Turkish language reforms of the 1920s was removed with this edit, the editor citing that it didn't describe a "language shift, but reformation". I've restored it for now, but would anyone care to weigh in? AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 06:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

The edit you mention has no relation to language shift, therefore it doesn't belong in this page. Maybe in some other. Jotamar (talk) 00:00, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

If you think that the Turkish case is included in the definition provided in the lead, then obviously the definition is faulty. If you tell us how you interpret it, it would help to find a better definition. Jotamar (talk) 00:11, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Upon re-reading, I think I understand the difference is the fact that it describes Arabic and Persian loanwords which were being removed from the Turkish language, rather than the outright replacement of one language with another? That is - the complete change of usage from one language to the other is what constitutes a language shift? I suppose I imagined there may have been, in some cases, a transitional period in which loanwords are adopted from one language into the other (thinking, e.g., Spanglish), but it seems that the other sections don't describe that kind of scenario. In any case, if not language shift, is there another term which is used to describe what the removed section discusses? AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 06:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps: Language planning, Language reform, Linguistic purism, ... Jotamar (talk) 16:56, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Interesting, thank you. Cheers! AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 02:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

How to improve this article

@Taivo, Maunus, Florian Blaschke, and Paul Barlow: Any suggestions? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

• Thomason, Sarah Grey; Kaufman, Terrence (1988), Language Contact, Creolization, and Genetic Linguistics, University of California Press (published 1991), ISBN 0-520-07893-4.
• Blench, Roger; Spriggs, Matthew (eds.), Archaeology and Language, vol. IV: Language Change and Cultural Transformation, London: Routledge, pp. 138–148
• LANGUAGE MAINTENANCE AND LANGUAGE SHIFT AS A FIELD OF INQUIRY. A DEFINITION OF THE FIELD AND SUGGESTIONS FOR ITS FURTHER DEVELOPMENT. JOSHUA A. FISHMAN (Hey, Joshua!)
• Bridget Allchin (1982), The Rise of Civilization in India and Pakistan, Cambridge University Press. D. Hudson: "I find the Allchin's "Birth of Indian Civilization" quite good, because it summarizes the archeological evidence for six different waves of migration by Indo-Europeans, one of which settled in Harappa and probably interacted in some way with Harappan culture and religion. The sixth and strongest wave was the one that produced the Rig Veda; so we have no information about the nature of the religions and cultures of the other five waves, one of which appears to have moved along the Himalayan foothills, to ermerge later as the Sakya and other tribes in the Gangetic east (that idea was developed by Sharma, whose book I will dig out if you want it)." [1]
• Colin Baker,Sylvia Prys Jones, Encyclopedia of Bilingualism and Bilingual Education
• Janet Holmes, An Introduction to Sociolinguistics
• Raymond Hickey, The Handbook of Language Contact

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 09:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

The most relevant of those is Fishman, the general sociolinguistics literature is only tangentially relevant. Thi article really has very little relation to the Indo-Aryan question and should be kept separate from that stupid debate.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

• Kulick, D. (1997). Language shift and cultural reproduction: Socialization, self and syncretism in a Papua New Guinean village (No. 14). Cambridge University Press.
• Veltman, C. J. (1983). Language shift in the United States (No. 34). Walter de Gruyter.
• Fishman, J. A. (2013). Language maintenance and language shift as a field of inquiry: A definition of the field and suggestions for its further development. Linguistics, 51(Jubilee), 9-10.
• Gal, S. (1979). Language shift: Social determinants of linguistic change in bilingual Austria. Academic Press.
• Fishman, J. A. (1991). Reversing language shift: Theoretical and empirical foundations of assistance to threatened languages (Vol. 76). Multilingual matters.
• Dressler, W. U. (1981). Language shift and language death—A protean challenge for the linguist. Folia linguistica, 15(1-2), 5-28.
• Fishman, J. A. (2006). Language policy and language shift. An introduction to language policy: Theory and method, 311-328.
• Hill, J. H. (1993). Structure and practice in language shift. Hyltenstam and Viberg eds, 68-93.
• Fishman, J. A. (2008). 16 Language Maintenance, Language Shift, and Reversing Language Shift. The handbook of bilingualism, 8, 406.
• Hamel, R. E. (1997). Language conflict and language shift: A sociolinguistic framework for linguistic human rights. International Journal of the Sociology of Language, 127(1), 105-134.

User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:24, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Glottophagy

The concept of glottophagy (one language absorbing another) should probably be covered here, in the lead. Presently various sections in this article (e.g. Language shift#Hungary) dwell on it, but it is never named or made an overall part of the article's conceptual scope. Glottophagy belongs here because it is a socio-linguistic process of the absorbing language and culture not a linguistic process of the absorbed one, and it often does not result in language death/extinction, but rather the abandonment of the use of a language in a particular geo-cultural area while use of the same language continues elsewhere. See Talk:Language death#Linguicide and glottophagy for previous discussion. There's very little material on the concept at that other article; it should really be treated here, instead, and expanded upon and sourced.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  04:23, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Must admit that I have never heard or read of that concept. Linguicide yes, "killer languages" yes, but not glottophagy. I dont think this is a very established concept in the literature on language shift with which I am quite familiar.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 05:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Looking at Google scholar the concept seems to be limited to its proposer Calvet, and a couple of the 55 hits are not about his concept but about people actually eating other peoples tongues.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 05:45, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Reversion re: "Sourced statements"

@Iñaki LL: Can you explain what sourced statements are being affected by my revision? Hongthay (talk) 00:27, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Hongthay: for one, you replaced Yilan Creole Japanese with Hanxi Language (Kankei, Chinese: 寒溪語). That piece of information refers to a sourced statement coming next. If your edit is a correction, an information found in the source, I am totally fine with that. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 13:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

@Iñaki LL:, I can see that there are sourced statements following "Yilan Creole", but I do not see a conflict in using that name as opposed to Hanxi, Kankei. Those names are included in the article titled Yilan Creole Japanese. There are other improvements that I made, including referring to Ang Ui-jin directly as an author, and removing Hanzi already at their respective articles. That is why I went ahead and undid your revert. Hongthay (talk) 21:36, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

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Edit Reverted

"The shift from Gaelic to Scots and Scottish English has been ongoing since about 1200 CE; Gaelic has gone from being the dominant language in almost all areas of modern-day Scotland to an endangered language spoken by only about 1% of the population."

There's been a substantial English minority population in Scotland since around the 500s at least, so the dating of this is way off. Initially contained to Lothian and the southeast we know there was also English presence in Dumfries and Galloway as far north as the Plain of Kyle (by before the 700s), and this is referenced and sourced in other articles.

David I of Scotland's 'Davidian Revolution' also took place well before 1200 in the early 1100s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.216.40 (talk • contribs)

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