Talk:Liberal arts education
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 | On 7 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Liberal arts. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Requested move 7 February 2023
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. RM is not the best place for discussions about rescoping, as it's an either/or thing. That said, the rescoping discussion has merit and I don't want this closure to prematurely end it. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 20:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Liberal arts education → Liberal arts – Shorter and more consistent title; see WP:AT and WP:COMMONNAME. Mast303 (talk) 00:37, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose not the same thing. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:49, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment – @Mast303: Is it your intention to change the article's scope? Graham (talk) 05:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes. We should have an article on liberal arts in general. Mast303 (talk) 01:17, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- That seems like a rather different rationale from your initial proposal. Graham (talk) 02:52, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, if you want to do that, changing the scope of this article, you should get consensus for that first. I think you would find it a rather more slippery concept than you imagine. Johnbod (talk) 05:24, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- That seems like a rather different rationale from your initial proposal. Graham (talk) 02:52, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes. We should have an article on liberal arts in general. Mast303 (talk) 01:17, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose not the same thing. Johnbod (talk) 05:53, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support - By judging the article's current content, clearly "education" is an extraneous appendage to the article's topic and title. "Liberal arts" is a shorter Boolean search term, and the succinctness of the title would offer a better grasp of the topic more broadly, with a subsection to address the topic pedagogically. I fully support the change. Sapienna (talk) 02:13, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- But literally the whole article is about education! Johnbod (talk) 22:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Johnbod, @In ictu occuli: We should not only move, but also make the article about liberal arts in general. Then, we should devote a section to Liberal arts education. I might also consider splitting off this article into Liberal arts. Mast303 (talk) 22:35, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- What does "splitting off this article into Liberal arts" mean? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:40, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- I propose having an article on liberal arts (in general) and another article specific to liberal arts education. Or we could have a section on liberal arts education. Mast303 (talk) 22:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- I would support a new article on the liberal arts in general. That doesn't require doing anything to this one. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- That's a moving _target! We already have Trivium and Quadrivium, between them covering the 7 arts in the classical and medieval idea of the term, plus articles on all the much longer list of subjects that might be covered by the modern idea of the term (see the article). I'm not sure anything else is needed. Anyway, as you say, only a link or two would be needed here. On the other hand, the lead could do with an expansion clarifying the difference between the older 7 and the much wider modern range. That's all in the article now, but somewhat buried in the dense 2nd section. The very last thing we need imo is a listy series of short paras explaining everything given in the article for modern areas:
Johnbod (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2023 (UTC)The modern use of the term liberal arts consists of four areas: the natural sciences, social sciences, arts, and humanities. Academic areas that are associated with the term liberal arts include:
- Life sciences (biology, ecology, neuroscience)
- Physical science (physics, astronomy, chemistry, physical geography)
- Logic, mathematics, statistics, computer science
- Philosophy
- History
- Social science (anthropology, economics, human geography, linguistics, political science, jurisprudence, psychology, and sociology)
- Creative arts (fine arts, music, performing arts, literature)
- That's a moving _target! We already have Trivium and Quadrivium, between them covering the 7 arts in the classical and medieval idea of the term, plus articles on all the much longer list of subjects that might be covered by the modern idea of the term (see the article). I'm not sure anything else is needed. Anyway, as you say, only a link or two would be needed here. On the other hand, the lead could do with an expansion clarifying the difference between the older 7 and the much wider modern range. That's all in the article now, but somewhat buried in the dense 2nd section. The very last thing we need imo is a listy series of short paras explaining everything given in the article for modern areas:
- I would support a new article on the liberal arts in general. That doesn't require doing anything to this one. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- I propose having an article on liberal arts (in general) and another article specific to liberal arts education. Or we could have a section on liberal arts education. Mast303 (talk) 22:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- What does "splitting off this article into Liberal arts" mean? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:40, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Johnbod, @In ictu occuli: We should not only move, but also make the article about liberal arts in general. Then, we should devote a section to Liberal arts education. I might also consider splitting off this article into Liberal arts. Mast303 (talk) 22:35, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- But literally the whole article is about education! Johnbod (talk) 22:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- I've added a para to the lead as I suggested above. Johnbod (talk) 05:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
“Mathematics, Geometry”
editI might be wrong here, but isn’t the term “Arithmetic” better suited? 141.179.80.215 (talk) 12:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
Formal Sciences and Natural Sciences are taught within a Liberal Arts Education Framework; Liberal Arts is not synonymous with Humanities and/or Social Sciences
edit| IP sock of Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Hoaeter |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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According to the sources cited, the "formal sciences" which includes "logic, mathematics, statistics, computer science" among others is taught as part of a liberal arts education framework in all universities, at least in North America were all accredited universities follow a liberal arts education framework and where most liberal arts-style education is most taught in the world. If you have problems with the scholarly consensus definition of liberal arts education (which is also known as the " arts and sciences" at most universities) which includes the natural sciences and formal sciences along side the humanities, social sciences, and creative arts, go to the talk page to air out your objections to scholarly consensus. And stop deleting sourced material.
66.44.114.72 (talk) 15:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
More sources incoming:
66.44.114.72 (talk) 16:17, 19 July 2023 (UTC) The spitefulness I just faced is just petty, are they really just going to revert the term "legal case" to "or a specific/a specific group of lawsuit(s)/court case(s)" evidenced by them in the strategic communication article saying "Dept of redundancy dep" just as a jab at me because I made sourced edits on a completely different article that didn't fit their personal beliefs. The term "legal case" is a lot better and concise relative to the phrase "or a specific/a specific group of lawsuit(s)/court case(s)". That's just unfair. [Just to be on the safe side and to give the benefit of the doubt to other, if that wasn't meant to be a spiteful jab at me over something petty and was a good faith edit, I will recant this and continue as if it never happened]. 66.44.114.72 (talk) 16:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
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I get that most academics count the liberal arts as encompassing the sciences as well
but would it be possible to just include a side note in brackets about the fact that quite a lot of people don't consider mathematics or the sciences as liberal arts? I mean in the context of university degrees the liberal arts only seem to encompass history, literature, writing, philosophy, sociology, psychology and maybe a few more. If the goal is to be as impartial as possible then i think this should be taken note of.
Zoology Class Exercise on Wikipedia Editing: What kinds of conversations, if any, are going on behind the scenes about how to represent this topic?
- The previous conversations that are spoken about above are related to moving this page to the Liberal Arts page as it would combine both efforts of Liberal Arts and Liberal Arts Education together. --KalebEvans (talk) 20:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Benefits
editWhat are the benefits of a liberal arts education? Buttercup0715 (talk) 03:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)