Talk:Male privilege

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 17 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Calgirl22. Peer reviewers: Sanilamath.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Question of objectivity of the page.

There is an issue regarding the difference between objective and subjective discourse on this page- this article describes male privilege as if to be an objectively true and scientifically certain reality. Instead, more appropriate would be to present the conceptualization of male privilege as a theoretical postulation, or, vis-a-vis, one possible idea/theory.

The first sentence of the article reads:

″Male privilege is the system of advantages or rights that are available to men solely on the basis of their sex. A man's access to these benefits may vary depending on how closely they match their society's ideal masculine norm″

This implies that the described system should be inherently assumed as absolutely factual, rather than a postulation or interpretation. As reasonable postulations to the contrary exist, it would be more objectively accurate to refine this opening sentence along the lines of "According to the theory of male privilege,..[etc]".

Regarding matters of fluid and abstract notions such sociological topics, such as gender privilege, a more objective disposition better serves the discourse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:581:4504:8BF0:F952:4C2F:FCDF:842C (talk) 16:00, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not original research. Generalrelative (talk) 16:36, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

This article doesn't seem to include all majority and minority views though, as defined by wiki's definition. I'm not seeing what you are trying to address here. You said wikipedia is not based on 'original research', which wikipedia defines as " The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[a] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources". What is that addressing in the reply subsequent to your most recent reply? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:581:4504:8BF0:F952:4C2F:FCDF:842C (talk) 17:10, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

To add onto that, I've tried to post studies and suchlike on here that counter the claims of the page - only to have them removed. I've noticed other wiki pages seem more relaxed about studies that, for example, explain how disadvantaged young working-class men & boys are. Tiggy The Terrible (talk) 20:36, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Please refer to this RfC to see how the current consensus was derived. The consensus is that male privilege is a phenomenon, not a matter of opinion. We hold RfCs for precisely this reason, so that we don't need to relitigate fundamental issues every time an IP or SPA appears with a different view. Generalrelative (talk) 21:48, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

I respect your vote, but the logic used is pretty tortured from what I'm seeing. Essentially: "men have some fairly debatable gendered advantages, therefore this incredibly one-sided sociological theory is a phenomena." I mean, if you want to talk about men having privileges you can't ignore privileges conveyed to women and pretend they don't exist. Could we not even note that this is the opposite side of the coin to Gynocentrism? Tiggy The Terrible (talk)

You are free to disagree in private as much as you like. But you are not entitled to unlimited patience from the community here, nor to a WP:SOAPBOX on Wikipedia for continually airing your grievances. Generalrelative (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Interesting discussion. However I would be interested in what dissenting authors have to write regarding the topic of Male Privilege.Leavit2stever (talk) 20:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Simply placing a vote on whether or not your opinions are factual isn't remotely a gauge of objectivity. If this is a standard followed by wikipedia, the intellectual integrity of the entire website is called into question.

If you have a problem with Wikipedia:Consensus as a core policy, this is certainly not the place to complain about it. Generalrelative (talk) 19:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

New Article

Female Privilege Feel free to add content as per [1] BlackAmerican (talk) 06:31, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

I thought Wiki was supposed to be neutral?

This page clearly needs to be revised. This is supposed to be a neutral stance and it clearly is not and purports a local of crap. 98.177.111.254 (talk) 20:06, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Disputed content

I ask Panamitsu to discuss the content they wish to add to the article rather than edit warring to force inclusion. As I stated in my edit summary, devoting an entire new section to a single survey is WP:UNDUE, and inclusion of speculation as unencyclopedic in WP:TONE. Please address these issues and achieve consensus for inclusion before re-adding, as required by WP:ONUS. Generalrelative (talk) 06:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)