Talk:Old East Slavic

Old Ukrainian

Not sure why referenced "Old Ukrainian" was removed from the text. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:31, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

This was already discussed at Talk:Old_East_Slavic/Archive_2#Old_Ukrainian_2024. Do you have any new arguments here? Mellk (talk) 23:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

No, Shevelov [1] wasn't discussed there. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 23:05, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

There is clearly consensus against including "Old Ukrainian". In that discussion, you were already told this, as per the many previous discussions. Shevelov was for example mentioned at Talk:Old_East_Slavic/Archive_2#Removing_"Old_Russian". As I already mentioned in the edit summary, Shevelov only uses "Old Ukrainian" in reference to the history of the Ukrainian language. For this subject, which he calls a "hypothetical uniform language", he uses Common Russian/Common Eastern Slavic. This is already mentioned in the article. Mellk (talk) 23:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no consensus there. Note how editors present arguments supported with sources while those opposing make unsupported claims. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 23:20, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

In the last discussion, no one aside from yourself supported such changes. You also misrepresented the source, and this is the same thing with Shevelov. As you were already told when you started the last discussion: I don’t see that you’re offering any new arguments... The fact is that the name “Old Russian” is widely used in English, while the name “Old Ukrainian” is not. If you are not making any new arguments here, then simply starting a new discussion about this is not going to help. Mellk (talk) 01:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't see anything about Old Ukrainian in previous discussion.

Still, Shevelov uses Old Ukrainian in his work, so this should be pointed out in the article. Shahray (talk) 05:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Are you seriously trying to tell me that this discussion has nothing to do with "Old Ukrainian"?

Again, he gives this chronology in A Historical Phonology of the Ukrainian Language (1979), which also includes "Proto-Ukrainian" up to the 11th century, followed by "Old Ukrainian" then "Middle Ukrainian" and so on. "Old Ukrainian" in general usually refers a specific dialect from the 15/16th centuries. This is misrepresenting the source, plain and simple. Mellk (talk) 06:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

This discussion is archived, how am I supposed to know this?

Yeah, he does, and therefore it should be addressed in the article. You literally confirmed that he uses Old Ukrainian and Middle Ukrainian, and still "This is misrepresenting the source", really?

Same thing about old russain, quote:"Old Russian is also used to describe the written language in Russia until the 18th century". Shahray (talk) 06:15, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

This was already linked in this discussion. The talk page banner also has links to the archives since talk page discussions are automatically archived.

It should not be addressed in this article, because the source refers to Ukrainian phonology, not this subject. That belongs to the article about the Ukrainian language or perhaps Ukrainian phonology. What Shevelov has said about the subject is already mentioned in this article. Mellk (talk) 06:26, 28 October 2024 (UTC)