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Ref needed for origin of the word Clan
editWe have seen comments on this talk page (see Clann, above), especially from User:Roidhrigh, calling into question the derivation of "clan" suggested by George Way. At present the statement in the article is actually unreferenced (in the section: Clan membership) - Way's comments on derivation are on page 21, whilst the citation after the end of the next sentence covers just that sentence and refers to page 28 of the source.
What is needed is (1) a decision on what is the correct, widely accepted etymology of the word "clan" - with alternative theories listed if they have sufficient support, and (2) references to support what is stated under (1). At present, the article does not have that. Hence the continued need for a citation needed tag.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 19:46, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Roidhrigh: Certainly a correct reference needs to be made, one that is scholarly and up-to-date. However, the reference needs to be with the first mention of clann in the first sentence of the whole article, which is the first appearance. The mention of clann in "Clan Membership" should state "as noted above".
- The first mention of the etymology of clan is in the lead. It is usual for the the lead not to be overburdened with references, since these will appear in the main part of the article (the lead is meant to summarise the article). Hence the reference should be in the second mention of the etymology in this article.
- User:Roidhrigh (1) Do you have a suitable reference to include in the article? (2) Please do not forget to sign your posts on the talk page.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 19:21, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. I understand the concept of lead; I disagree with the placement of the reference at the second mention. Inefficiency. But, of course, that is neither here nor there.
The reference I have put is the most appropriate in this case. eDIL is from the Royal Irish Academy, and is in its way encyclopaedic. It refers to the use of Gaelic (both Scottish and Irish) up to the 1700s, sources including Brehon legal tracts dealing with family and clan law, among all other Old, Middle and Classical Gaelic/Irish texts. With examples (see http://www.dil.ie/about). Moreover, referencing modern Irish and Gaelic dictionaries will give the core uses of the word clann, such as (Irish) https://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fgb/clann and (Scottish) https://www.faclair.com/ViewEntry.aspx?ID=E487C4950A71930F177A5D746F689043. roidhrigh 8:26, 16 October 2019 (CET)
- The Oxford Companion To Irish History does not actually support what was being stated, I have a copy of it myself. The online website is not exactly a reliable source. I have therefore changed it to as stated by the Oxford Companion to Scottish History, this article is about Scottish clans after all.QuintusPetillius (talk) 16:51, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks for that. Roidhrigh 19:00 , 17 October 2019 (CET).
Armigerous Clan Section
editGreetings How do I add MacLaurin to the list of Armigerous clans? I am also assembling a Clan MacLaurin page. Cordially Macrorybeg (talk) 14:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
Maxwell missing in the clan map
editAs the title says, Maxwell seems to be omitted, or, if I'm somehow missing it, it is not on the place where it should have been found. 87.126.21.225 (talk) 10:26, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- If you look at the list of Scottish clans, you will see that most are not represented on the map. Some are only showm in one of the clan areas, and not the full geographic spread.
- The clan areas changed over time, and a map can only show a snapshot of that process. So it will always be far from perfect. Shipsview (talk) 11:02, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Population
editAre there any statistics of population number? Maybe in census? Kaiyr (talk) 04:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- See here: Johnston, Thomas Brumby; Robertson, James Alexander; Dickson, William Kirk (1899). "General Wade's Report". Historical Geography of the Clans of Scotland. Edinburgh and London: W. & A.K. Johnston. QuintusPetillius (talk) 11:48, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Let's add statistics to the article. Kaiyr (talk) 09:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)