Talk:Second-wave feminism

Article focuses on USA

This article focuses almost exclusively on the American situation. It would be good to see subsequent efforts include women's experience and legislation from other countries, even if just western countries to start with. User:Lyn V C 03:46, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Four years later, your comment is still true. I will try to flesh out the article a little over the next few weeks; it would be great if others can help. Sue Gardner (talk) 03:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

@Sue Gardner: Still a nice gallery. –84.46.53.87 (talk) 05:22, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Article is getting better with some additions on German film-making (which were unduly long in my opinion, but others are looking at that.). Further additions would be good, especially from French feminism, including Wittig, and many others. At least it mentions De Beauvoir, although probably not sufficiently. Mathglot (talk) 21:20, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians, I added some information on Switzerland about what was happening during the time American suffrage activist during their second wave of feminism, and the struggle for them to accomplish basically their first wave, which was the right to vote until the 1970s. I had a little trouble constructing the paragraphs and citations onto this page! If anyone can help fix them that would be great. I used the same source for the whole paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlygould96 (talk • contribs) 20:26, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Page preview for "Third-wave feminism"

When you hover over the link to the article on "Third-wave feminism," the following (incorrect, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic) text is displayed:

"Third-wave feminism is a mental illness characterized by victimization, collective hysteria and denial of biological differences between men and women. It is also a misandric ideology aligned with the dogmas of the extreme left and cultural marxism..."

128.189.135.68 (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

 – by Mojo Hand on the linked page, thanks, Wiki-Legacy was indefinitely blocked, two revisions were deleted (not more visible in the edit history.) –84.46.52.217 (talk) 09:09, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Radical feminism

Isn't radical feminism third-wave feminism? Or doesn't it at least represent a shift from second-wave feminism to third-wave feminism and is not second-wave alone? --LauraHale (talk) 18:19, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps a book will make clear the answer. Try Radical Feminism: A Documentary Reader published by NYU in 2000. Binksternet (talk) 19:24, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I've been reading multiple books on the topic as I am drafting User:LauraHale/Feminism in Francoist Spain and the democratic transition period. They are all pretty clear that radical feminism is third-wave, not second wave. As these sources apparently conflict with what you cited and you have access to that text which would be difficult for me to get out a library in Spain, could you possibly provide a small quote that cites the movement as part of second-wave feminism? Nothing in the section explicitly does that, and given the abundance of source I can find saying it is definitely third wave, it would be useful to explain in that section how it is second wave. --LauraHale (talk) 20:11, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

The book is a collection of earlier works, put into context by editor Barbara Crow. The book is slanted toward feminism on the East Coast of the United States during the period 1967–1975, and it defines radical feminism perhaps more broadly than others. A reviewer in the NWSA Journal said the criteria used by Crow was this: "A work counts as radical if: a) the author/s of the work identify themselves as radical; b) women's oppression as women is seen as the primary locus of oppression; c) consciousness-raising is identified as feminism's primary mechanism for personal and, hence, political transformation; or d) both the limitations and efficiency of several other sorts of political strategies are recognized and appreciated." But the message is clear that radical feminism was on the rise starting in 1967.

Another book makes the same statement in its title: Daring To Be Bad: Radical Feminism in America 1967-1975, published in 1995. Binksternet (talk) 21:42, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

@Binksternet:, can you provide sources that are more globalized in perspective instead of presenting American feminism as the default? El movimiento feminista en Salamanca después de la muerte de Franco and other papers on feminism waves, both in Spain and Latin America, situate radical feminism in the third wave, not the second. - LAS OLAS DEL FEMINISM also puts radical feminism in the third wave, "Surgen corrientes y afiliaciones diversas, a veces opuestas o disyuntivas : doble militancia o no; feminismo socialista, radical o liberal; feminismo de la Igualdad o de la diferencia, ciber y ecofeminismo. Se enriquecen las propuestas y crecen las feministas influyentes: representantes sociales, académicas, líderesas sindicales, políticas". this source too puts Radical feminism in the third wave. A more international scope for understanding this would be useful. The definitions you offer are on conflict with ones about the nature of different waves in Spain. Perhaps I am misreading the Spanish sources here? Can you provide sources that explain how it situated in Spain? Because your definitions continue to be all out of sync with everything I am reading. (And many sources in Spain are already talking about us being into fourth wave feminism.)

I am honestly not trying to be difficult here. I know very little about this topic except what I have been reading in Spanish language sources about feminism in Spain and how the various waves existed here, mostly coming out of response to the dictatorship... and the framing around the American definition as a global one is not providing me with much insight. The model you're talking about that situates radical feminism firmly on the second wave just isn't meshing with sources. Hence this desire for more internationalism, or at this point a consideration of forking the American only perspective into a US article while trying to more internationalize this article itself. (Since radical feminism clearly isn't universal to second wave feminism.) :( --LauraHale (talk) 07:38, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

The original question was about whether radical feminism existed in the second wave, which I answered by pointing out books from the US describing radical feminism during the period 1967–1975. That was the easy part. It's a different matter to tell the reader when radical feminism arose in each country. I don't know what source talks about that. Binksternet (talk) 15:28, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Laura, no not at all; radical feminism definitely goes back to second wave, both in the U.S. and in France (not currently represented in the article, but see Monique Wittig for example). Binksternet has some good quotes for you, plenty more available if you search. It has persisted, and continued to evolve, since its origins. Mathglot (talk) 21:26, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

@Mathglot:, Since the case appears to be that the vast of content is explictly focused on Americans, it seems like second-wave feminism in the United States should be created. Otherwise, you end up with the white American female experience being defined globally. --LauraHale (talk) 07:38, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

@LauraHale:, Thanks for your response. You are absolutely right, and I often remark about this very problem on many articles at Wikipedia; it's partly due to systemic bias and anglo-saxon provincialism. I encourage globalization of articles, contribute to them where I can, and otherwise call attention to the problem by placing templates like {{Globalize/US}} at the top of articles that deserve them. You can add the {{Globalize}} template, too. If after a significant elapsed time the article is still narrowly focused geographically, you could add a section on the Talk page requesting a rename of the article as you propose; see WP:RM for how to do this. Mathglot (talk) 08:26, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Second or third-wave feminism (Third-wave for Europe, Second-wave for Americans)

Third Wave feminism outside the Anglo-Saxon context is often second wave in the Anglo-Saxon feminist context. This comes up in a number of non-English sources. Is there anyway the article could be split with this article disambiguated to provide a better understanding here without reinforcing the US centric perspective? [1][2][3] This problematic naming being out of sync is referenced in Spanish Wikipedia with es:Segunda ola del feminismo en EEUU and es:Segunda ola del feminismo. es:Primera ola del feminismo. --LauraHale (talk) 12:02, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Recent revert

Hi Laura, this is to explain why I reverted your recent changes. This article is not in good shape and needs to be fixed. But your edits seemed to me to be original research, e.g. the lead: "Second-wave feminism describes two distinct types of feminism. Anglo-Saxon first-wave feminism is second-wave for Europeans and Latin American feminists. Second-wave American and British feminism is also third-wave for Europeans and Latin Americans." You also removed the entire overview section.

Such drastic changes need consensus and have to be supported by high-quality academic sources. It seems odd to me to assume that Britain isn't part of Europe, and that British feminism = "Anglo-Saxon feminism", whatever that is. I'm also puzzled by the idea that Germany or Italy, for example, had already experienced first- and second-wave feminism before the US or UK. You made the claim but didn't explain what you meant or give examples. I stand to be corrected, but I would need to see high-quality sources that support it.

If you want to add a section about other definitions of "second wave", that would be fine, so long as you have good sources, and so long as you explain clearly what you mean. SarahSV ^(talk) 20:54, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Endorsed by at least one IP ;-) Exporting over 40 KB US-centric stuff to an US-centric page is an interesting idea, but looking at over 50 abortion law pages for all US states and even some territories I'm unconvinced that this helps. Some rogue states could be relevant, e.g., Alabama, Mississippi, …, and maybe a remotely related US-centric list created by John Oliver could help to figure it out.^[4] –84.46.52.138 (talk) 03:12, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

FYI: Talk:John Oliver#Feminist. –84.46.52.79 (talk) 06:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

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Nothing about litterature?!

Hello,

I am very surprised to not find anything in this article about The Left Hand of Darkness and feminist litterature of the period. El Comandante (talk) 12:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)