Talk:Secret Service code name

Untitled

NOTE: To avoid bloat and trivial info in the "Fictional" section, please follow the following guidelines before adding something to it:

1. The addition should have something to do with the President of the United States, his/her family, or the United States Secret Service.
2. If the name itself is significant to the work, it should be included.
3. The codename should not be merely a trivial or incidental inclusion in the work. Simply having a character's name mentioned should not itself warrant inclusion on the list.
4. All fictional additions should be sourced.

Any questions about inclusion should be discussed on this page.
The above only applies to fictional codenames. All codenames of real people should be added.

Five relevant Wiki Categories found

I have found and added five relevant Wiki Categories for this article; with "Good Intentions," I will now remove the Categorization tag. We can all discuss this here, on the talk page. By the way--I would love it if this list could be expanded. What were U.S. Vice Presidents called? Al Gore once joked on the David Letterman Show that he was so boring that, "My Secret Service codename is Al Gore." ProfessorPaul 02:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• Ooo, source that, that should be added! --UsaSatsui 04:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
• That joke was on The West Wing too. The Vice President Bob Russell joked that he was so boring that his Secret Service codename was Bob Russell...

I added a few from a book I have ( I like "cobweb" and "pacemaker")...I hope I sourced it right. I'm also wanting to see this article expand, but we should make sure that everything is properly sourced. I also want to find something on the practice of the names, whether the people involved get a say in them, just how secret are they, and so on. I also tried to make it clear a lot of these names aren't in use anymore. --UsaSatsui 04:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• Can we get some of these "fictional" ones sourced? Good additions, but the more sources we have, the better we can survive future AfD's --UsaSatsui 03:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
• I reformatted things a little bit. If it sucks, change it back, but I think that people who are related should be grouped together (like FLOUTSes with thier Presidents). Anyways, let's get some more here. This list is getting interesting. Also, if someone can find some information on the codenames (the history of the names, any significance to them), let's do it, make this more than "just a list". --UsaSatsui 10:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

What is McCain's codename?

I've read online the suggestion "Phoenix." (Really don't see how it could be beat, since it analogizes so well with his having been a Navy flyer, being from Arizona, and rising from the dead during the campaign.)--Justmeherenow (talk) 20:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

More tinkering

I added a couple of images to illustrate some of the people in question. 3 images is probably a good number. I'm still kind of a "noob" with images, so feel free to fix my mistakes if I made any, or put in some different images if you don't like my choices (the one of the Clintons I mostly used because it demonstrated 4 people, so I'd like to keep that one in at least). I wouldn't add any more images, though, 3 seems like a good number. I tried to find one "fictional" example, but I couldn't find any non fair use images for it (an image in this article doesn't seem like fair use to me). --UsaSatsui (talk) 21:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Fictional

Can we get rid of the fictional stuff? DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

• Why? I think it belongs here as well.96.237.63.234 (talk) 20:41, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I think we need to come up with a compromise on the fictional ones. Some of them probably belong on the list, others probably don't. Any suggestions for guidelines? (and they should -all- be cited). --UsaSatsui (talk) 21:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
• I also agree, the fictional code names detracts from the article about actual secret service code words. If those codewords are note worthy they should be in the article about the book, show, or movie. --64.175.38.71 (talk) 18:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I tend to think the fictional ones should be kept. They provide context to the non-fictional ones, do no harm to the article, and I just plain can't imagine a reader's experience being ruined or detracted from by them.

—Adrian~enwiki (talk) 23:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

What does 'provide context for' mean here? DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• It is appropriate for here and is not so large that it needs it's own article. I think it should stay.--Rtphokie (talk) 00:55, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• Suggestion. As I mentioned before, we probably need some sort of criteria guideline for the fictional names. Here's my suggestion: If the Presidency, or the Secret Service, or the codename itself, plays a significant role in the work, it should be on the list (things like The West Wing and 24). If it's just ancillary or trivial (like the current entry for Shooter or Superman's code name), leave it out. And please don't remove the whole section without discussion.--UsaSatsui (talk) 01:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The whole of the fictional section is just awful. It's one of those sections that makes Wikipedia look like fanboy material: "hey I saw a movie where they used a codename - I'll add that". My proposal is that nothing gets in there unless the nature of the codename is significant. Currently the only example I can think of is C.J. Cregg's codename from The West Wing.

Can we at least trim them down? DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Sure. I nuked the one I think is clearly inappropriate in my eyes. I'm also removing the 24 one because the source doesn't mention it's his SS code name. Without seeing the source material, though, I'm just not sure about the others, but it looks like maybe some of the West Wing and Clancy ones can be trimmed. --UsaSatsui (talk) 20:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Seeing no objections to my proposal, I went ahead and cut the ones that didn't meet the criteria I set up, plus the ones that weren't sourced. I also alphabetized them. --UsaSatsui (talk) 06:41, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
• The ones for the Ryanverse seemed sort of interesting, if only because of the effort to find things that matched that weren't just generic patriotic terms (eagle, liberty, etc.). Also, the fact that it is almost as large of a grouping as some of the real life White House families and correctly all start with the same letter. A good number of those Novels exist online and so can be referenced (Both Ryan's wife and most (all?) of the kids are on *one* page in one of the novels.) Are people OK on those being re-added if correctly referenced?Naraht (talk) 17:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Go ahead. --UsaSatsui (talk) 19:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
• I wanted to add Anna Foster from "Chasing Liberty" as the name for the movie is based, in part, on her codename being Liberty (and, of course, references to the definition of Liberty). I feel it is relevant and it shows a pattern for the use of the codename "Liberty" in ficition - or it is the kind of detail that I, as a writer, want to know when I am trying to create detail in my pieces. My problem is (a) relevant? (b) source: I know this because I own the DVD (hey, we all need some of those feel-good, cheesy movies for bad days). Any problems with this addition/source?----Blondtraillite (talk) 19:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm fine with it. Seems like it's significant. As for the sourcing, yes, it can be sourced to the DVD. --UsaSatsui (talk) 22:38, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
• Under this criteria, I think the only code name from The West Wing that makes the cut is C.J. Cregg's codename "Flamingo," which was one of the additions I made in this edit. The codename itself was an issue in the storyline. For all the others, including President Bartlet's, the use of the codename is incidental. (Note, Sam Seaborn's "Princeton" codename, also added my edit, does not make the cut.) TJRC (talk) 00:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
  • The President is...the President. The "Big Sur" one probably doesn't fit in (just read the transcript). Can you elaborate on the C.J. Cregg one? I read the source that was provided and it just seemed like it was a couple of people riffing on their names. --UsaSatsui (talk) 00:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
    • It may not come across in the printed transcript. Cregg (I corrected my misspelling) was played by 6-foot Alison Janey. The "Flamingo" codename is apparently based on her somewhat gawky appearance, or at least she seems to take it that way. She hears it for the first time in the opening sequence, and the character is visibly startled and discomfited by it. She brings it up a few times in the episode, first to Sam, then twice to Danny (a reporter). Her discomfort with the code name is used to give insight that the character, despite being press secretary, a very visible position, is still a little uncomfortable. This is the only episode that I am aware of where a code name was used other than as a passing reference. TJRC (talk) 01:14, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
      • See, that's all I wanted to see. Go ahead and add it in (but yeah, take out Big Sur there). --UsaSatsui (talk) 03:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I did provide the basis for the inclusion: "The codename itself was an issue in the storyline." I provided the additional info as a courtesy, but I don't think any editor is in a position to require a detailed explanation as a condition to allowing an edit.

Apart from Cregg, I note that the "Bookbag" codename has been re-added. My own take is that the references to that codename were all incidental, and it doesn't rate inclusion here. Thoughts?

By the way, all of these fictional codenames would be, I think, completely appropriate for inclusion in articles about the fictional works themselves, or, in cases where they exist, articles about the fictional character. TJRC (talk) 18:46, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

It's just my opinion, but it just seems right. President's daughter just seems like something that should be included. --UsaSatsui (talk) 00:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Although this debate has been settled, I felt I should add (for future reference) that "Flamingo" as C.J. Cregg's codename was featured prominently in later seasons, specifically Season 3 when she receives a death threat and is granted Secret Service protection. There are also more hints towards her displeasure with this codename and its motivation (including her "nice thing" she has to tell her primary agent being that she likes how he is taller than her). While it is not always a direct source of tension, it is similarly symbolic of her being awkward in her youth for her height and still reliving similar awkwardness as an adult with this almost system-approved teasing (a theme that recurs during the series). As such, I think it is an implicit symbolism throughout and therefore meeting the criteria for inclusion in the fiction section.--Blondtraillite (talk) 03:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Now that I've said that, can I nominate "Lucky Charm" from First Daughter for deletion? ;) While it is relevant to the work in that her name is said by the romantic male lead (as it establishes him as a Secret Service Agent), the choice in codename is irrelevant to the movie. I may be biased because I hate the writing in this movie... --99.254.123.238 (talk) 03:13, 27 May 2010 (UTC) Sorry, thought I was logged in. This was mine: --Blondtraillite (talk) 03:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The two Barbaras

I suspect (but can't confirm) that one of the two codenames for former first lady Barbara Bush should be attached to the younger Barbara Bush, twin of Jenna Bush. Anyone else have a way of determining this? JamesLucas (" " / +) 18:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Good point. Never thought of that. Unfortunately, the sources don't distinguish between the "Barbara Bushes". I would guess it's "Tranquility" for the younger, but still. Possibly a footnote is in order. --UsaSatsui (talk) 21:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
• Found a reference which specifies which younger Barbara was assigned Turquoise. This should clear things up a bit.--Rtphokie (talk) 02:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Public?

Why on Earth are these codenames public knowledge? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.26.111.99 (talk) 22:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm wondering the same thing? Chimeradave Nov. 11, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.105.225.29 (talk) 23:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Because they're not really "secret" in the sense that "nobody knows them". They're just not common knowledge. As for how they get out, who knows? --UsaSatsui (talk) 08:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

The secret service release them. If you google "secret service codenames" then there are hundreds of newspaper articles which explain the practise. Darrenhusted (talk) 09:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Because secret service radio and other communications are encrypted. Codenames are assigned more out of a sense of tradition than anything else.--Rtphokie (talk) 12:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Unreliable source

A huge number of these codenames seem to come from one website www.2600.com . This does not appear to be a reliable organisation, and I propose that anything solely referenced by this website is removed. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• What about it makes it unreliable? Looks OK to me. --UsaSatsui (talk) 17:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

This header for the website makes it look like a conspiracy theory site. It may be marginally more respectable than that (it has a print edition) but why should a magazine devoted to hacking (by which they mean illegally gaining access to computer systems) be considered a reliable source of info about the secret service? DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be. The "computer hacking" part of the SS is different from the "protecting Presidents" part. But anyways. I think it would be a good idea to lean less heavily on that source, but I don't think it's "not reliable" enough to be used as one. I -really- don't think they got the Bush families right, now that I look at it. --UsaSatsui (talk) 18:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

a) the website seems to have a very antagonistic view of the Secret Service, which I think makes them suspect when writing about it, whatever the separation between the parts b) if they got the Bush family wrong, doesn't that make them unreliable for the others? DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

They didn't necessarily get them wrong. They just aren't differentiating between Bushes with the same name. --UsaSatsui (talk) 20:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Suggestion - Since the question over the Bush's codenames is so great (because of the repeating of names in the family), I would suggest removing any entries only attributed to this source, or any source that does not explicitly state which George/Barbara is which. For other names, where there's no confusion, I think it's fine. --UsaSatsui (talk) 01:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• Rather than filet the article due to this reference, can we leave them for a few days. I've replaced a good number of the 2600 references with less controversial ones (such as the appendix from the Air Force 1 book, various biographies and a book written by a secret service agent) There are more to do but it's in much better shape now.--Rtphokie (talk) 02:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • You, my friend, are awesome. Nice work. --UsaSatsui (talk) 08:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Kudos, Rtphokie. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Issue Resolved. --UsaSatsui (talk) 06:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

White House codename?

William Manchester's The Death of a President has a good list of codenames for people and locations used in late 1963; he had interviewed many Secret Service agents, including some who had left the service, so the list is no doubt reliable. He gives Castle as codename for the White House, Crown for the Capitol and Charcoal for the president's temporary office rooms/base when not at Washington. Does anyone have sources for other codenames that have been used for the White House (it would change now and then) and other high-profile locations? Strausszek November 14, 08.32(CET)

• Add them! If you need help with citing the book, we can do that. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any sources for any other locations except the ones I added a while back ("Cobweb" for the VP's office still amuses me). --UsaSatsui (talk) 07:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• Thanks, I'll get the list and copy in. Unicorn for Prince Charles is brilliant too, both because of the old heraldic associations and 'cause his siring two sons (cock - horn) will be one of his principal contributions to the British state. Many people in England, and maybe Charles himself, would prefer that the crown pass directly from Elizabeth to William. Strausszek November 14, 17.00(CET) —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC).
• Done - the footnotes ended up multiple though - should suffice with one note number directing from several points in the locations section, shouldn't it? Hope someone will clear that up and also check the page number from the American edition of Death of a president, I'm adding this from the Swedish transaltion. The codename list is at the beginning.

Notice that at least in thge 1960s, Castle'denoted all of the White House while Crown was the central part, the representative spaces. Strausszek 23:26, November 24, 2008 (CET) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC).

Cabinet officers

Does anyone have references for the terms for the Cabinet Officers? Some of them seem rather odd.Naraht (talk) 21:09, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• I've removed them until some references can be provided.--Rtphokie (talk) 00:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Bill and Hillary

There's no reason for duplicate entries on the list...particularly when both Bill and Hillary had the same codenames even though they "qualify" for multiple positions on the list (as President/family and as Candidate/family). The question is where to list them. Bill should obviously be under President. Hillary, though, I'm for putting her as a "candidate" instead of a "family member". Seems more prestigious to me. Comments? --UsaSatsui (talk) 06:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that is where they should go, however a comment of (See Candidates with a link to that section for Hillary Clinton) or something like that might be useful. A comment in the other direction for Bill may be useful as well.Naraht (talk) 16:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

• The problem is completeness. I was looking for Hillary's secret service codename. I found Bill Clinton, under a heading which said "Presidents and their families". No Hillary listed. I went off on another fruitless Google search for the information I needed, only to discover it was indeed on the page but not next to Bill where, by the heading, I had been expecting to find it. And under the heading "Presidential candidates and their spouses", it appears that Hillary has no spouse or that the secret service has not given him a codename. I think it would be better to have the full information in both places even if it then appears twice, than leave a reader with the impression that it had been forgotten, did not exist, or that the page was incomplete. And by the way, calling it is duplication is inaccurate: the information does appear twice, but it is appropriately formatted under the appropriate heading. Duncombe (talk) 18:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• So what about others who qualify multiple times? It doesn't make sense to do it for one person and not for another one (Al Gore, for example. -UsaSatsui (talk) 23:21, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• Certainly if there are persons who fit in two categories, I agree they should appear in both places. Also, how long is this "Candidates" list going to appear on the page anyway? In four years time will anyone care? Someone might want to know what the codename of a person who was a candidate for high office. Where do they find that information if all the people on that list have been removed becuase it is no longer topical? Should there not be a list of all people who have ever achieved a SS codename, without any categorization? That way there is no danger of repeating a name, and duplicates can be unequivocally removed. Duncombe (talk) 16:51, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• I think I'm actually for eliminating the "Candidates" section and moving them into the other sections as appropriate (this would solve the issue at hand, too, actually). I'm completely against ust making one single list, though. I say "Presidents and families", "VPs and families", "Government officials", "Other individuals", "Locations and objects", and "Fictional". It may also be a good idea to include a note that the indented people are family members, so the headers don't have to be "...and their families". --UsaSatsui (talk) 19:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Al Gore?

Why does the photo caption say that one of his codenames was "Sawhorse," and the main article say that it was "Sundance," with no mention of any other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.22.48 (talk) 03:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Marian Shields Robinson - Michelle Obama's Mother

Marian Robinson, Barack Obama's Mother-in-law is moving into the White House with the Obamas. (last parent of President or First Lady in the White House were in the Eisenhower and Truman administrations) I would guess then that as a close family member, she would receive a codename and that it would be appropriate for the article. Has anyone seen anything?Naraht (talk) 14:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Smurfette?

That wasn't seriously Al's daughter's name, was it? Quite unfortunate (yet hilarious) if it was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.121.64.48 (talk) 01:41, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

NNDB inappropriate...

I don't consider NNDB to be a trustworthy source, working on backing it up with other references and eventually deleting it.Naraht (talk) 16:09, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Mrs. Johnson for Lucy Rutherford?

Should this include the use by the Secret Service of "Mrs Johnson" for Lucy Rutherford? https://books.google.com/books?id=gvskicb_UTsC&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=%22secret+service%22+fdr+%22mrs+johnson%22&source=bl&ots=8DCFmBs-sX&sig=KMpnzPC2r7aXqxq5cW4nwNazWGs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBWoVChMIg5jahYqHyQIViaw-Ch3FeAzU#v=onepage&q=%22secret%20service%22%20fdr%20%22mrs%20johnson%22&f=false and other sources...Naraht (talk) 00:21, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Roger Clinton

Any idea on how to determine which of the two references (which definitely contradict) is correct?

• Unlikely that a Clinton (designated "E") would be named Headache. Most likely an inside joke between SS agents and not official. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.104.67.122 (talk) 09:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

The Life in the White House book by Robert P. Watson on page 125 cites to a 1994 London Times article. Oh, Brother! Clinton Fears the Next Gaffe (14 October, 1994), by Geordie Greig for the premise that "By the time that Bill Clinton had been installed as the forty-second President of the United States, the Secret Service had already given his half-brother Roger a code name: Headache." I cannot find a copy of the original article, so it's hard to assess whether Greig was being facetious.

On the other hand, the other cited source, Inside the White House by Ronald Kessler, on page 73 specifically acknowledges the claim of the code name and says that it's not true; that Roger was not under Secret Service protection and would not be assigned a code name.

Watson is a professor and author who has written a number of books, some of them about politics; but on the other hand Kessler is an author whose specialty is agencies such as the Secret Service, CIA and FBI. Given the conflict I think that Kessler is likely the better authority. I suspect that Greig just missed a joke, or that Watson missed Grieg's. A number of sources (e.g. [1]) call it a "nickname," which sounds about right.

Even if we can't determine which author was correct, the mere fact that it can't be authenticated means it should not be in the article. I'm going to be WP:bold and remove it. TJRC (talk) 02:15, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

somebody recently added this factoid back in again; i elected to modify the absolute statement to a claim statement, and left both sources present, rather than remove it outright, because i had not thought to check the talk page before editing to see if this had been handled previously 2603:7000:8300:2742:8C82:14C0:EE70:3C2A (talk) 21:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

sidenote: i found kessler's statement, that "headache" was only a claim, in a different one of his books on page 206 of In the President's Secret Service (https://archive.org/details/inpresidentssecr00kess/page/206/mode/1up?q=headache), while checking the sources for "tumbler"/"trailblazer" because i was interested in instances of presidents having multiple/changing codenames; it's almost the exact same paragraph:

Inside the White House p73: "The press also repeatedly claims that Roger Clinton, Clinton's brother, is code named Headache, presumably because he has replaced Billy Carter as the first family's black sheep. But because he is not protected by the Secret Service, Roger Clinton has no code name.

In the President's Secret Service p206: "When Clinton was president, the press claimed that his brother Roger Clinton was code named Headache, presumably because he replaced Billy Carter as the black sheep of the first family. But because he was not protected by the Secret Service, Roger Clinton had no code name."

the fact that he repeats this in multiple books implies he's adamant on the matter and probably confident in the accuracy of his position 2603:7000:8300:2742:8C82:14C0:EE70:3C2A (talk) 21:54, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

side-side-note: should instances of multiple codenames for an individual have more explanation, a la carter currently? e.g. eisenhower was only searchlight after his presidency (https://web.archive.org/web/20070118215333/http://www.nps.gov/archive/eise/secret16.htm). i feel like, where it can be determined, we should make clear what was a person's main codename vs which were short-lived or during less important periods of their protection 2603:7000:8300:2742:8C82:14C0:EE70:3C2A (talk) 22:21, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

side-side-side-...: sorry, misspoke, eisenhower was scorecard after his presidency (he was providence during his terms, nixon was searchlight) 2603:7000:8300:2742:8C82:14C0:EE70:3C2A (talk) 22:24, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

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Bobby Kennedy?

Robert Kennedy is conspicuous by his absence from the list here, all the more strikingly so since his wife Ethel is included (and because he was assassinated). Could someone please find out what codenames were used for him? He must have had different ones as attorney general and as a presidential candidate in his last year.

Also, his nemesis J. Edgar Hoover? :) 83.254.130.21 (talk) 22:25, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Ethel Kennedy and a lot of the other people from that time period are from The Secret Service of Alan Kahn and Robert Kennedy doesn't appear to be there. I agree that he is likely to have one (as did Hoover), but we can only go with what is published. Should you find out the names for either RJK or JEH, they *certainly* would belong on this page. Also, since Presidential candidates are protected *because* of his death, he probably didn't have a code name due to that. However as his brothers AG, he might well have had one.Naraht (talk) 14:41, 28 August 2018 (UTC)