Talk:Top, bottom, and versatile

Requested move 6 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 00:59, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

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Gay sex roles → Sex roles in sex between men – as someone mentioned Ernne (talk) 11:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

• it is been 7 days so the discussion is closed why the title was not changed? --Ernne (talk) 13:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

• Relisted because gender-related topics can be contentious. – robertsky (talk) 14:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
• Note: WikiProject Sexology and sexuality has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 14:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
• Note: WikiProject LGBT studies has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 14:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - the roles observed and described in the article are not exclusive to men, so to the rename the article would not be accurate. In fact it looks like this article is largely a duplicate with the article Top, bottom, switch and should probably be merged and the one article can explain the nuances of some people using the terms in a purely sexual act and some in that of BDSM. Or moved back to the original title that it looks like someone WP:BOLDly renamed from Top, bottom and versatile without discussion and was a more universal title than the current one. So either we should merge it with the article I mentioned, or I propose we move it back to the title this article used to have before the move. Raladic (talk) 15:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

What about "same-sex sex roles"? --MikutoH ^talk! 00:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

That wouldn’t be accurate either, the original title that the article used to have - Top, bottom, versatile was the most accurate.

The roles described are not exclusive to same sex individuals. Some heterosexual individuals also use those terms to refer to their sexual positions.

Per my oppose comment above, I really think this article should be merged with Top, bottom, switch as there is large overlaps in the content of both the current article and that one. Raladic (talk) 04:30, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

I proposed the move after reading this by other user on the same talk page,

"The title of the article is incorrect. Most men who have sex with men (MSM) do not describe themselves or their (sexual) relationships as "gay" (see here; also The Guardian: "The proportion of people with same-sex experience is higher than the proportion who identify as gay and bisexual"). MSM range from 5%-20% worldwide, while 4% of men are "mostly heterosexual", 0.5% of men are "evenly bisexual", 0.5% of men are "mostly homosexual", and 2% of men are "completely homosexual". A better title might be "Sex roles in sex between men". Same goes for the use of the adjective "gay" within the article, for the same reason"

There are bisexual men too so the title is not inclusive --Ernne (talk) 15:06, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 8 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested RM (closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 18:53, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

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Gay sex roles → Top, bottom, and versatile – This article was moved from Top, bottom and versatile in 2022 by another editor without discussion. As the previous RM has shown, the current title is not ideal, and the proposed title in that RM was also imprecise, since these roles can also apply to heterosexual or lesbian couples as per the sources in the article, so I suggest moving the article back to the original title. Alternatively a merge with Top, bottom, switch since a lot of the topic really has an overlap and I think could be explained in one article could also still be a viable option, which just needs to explain that sometimes the terms are used purely as a sexual position, and sometimes in more of a BDSM context, noting we do have Dominance and submission that goes into more detail about that as well already. Raladic (talk) 16:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Sexology and sexuality and WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies have been notified of this discussion. Raladic (talk) 16:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support because of the very obvious and careless omission of lesbians in this title. If it's only returning it to the status quo, that's still better than leaving it here. A merge can be discussed in a different discussion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:07, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy rename per above. Or make at least add Oxford comma, based in Top, bottom, switch. LIrala (talk) 00:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support, the old title was better and the move was undiscussed. I also support adding an Oxford comma. Crossroads ^-talk- 22:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  Amended move request adding the Oxford comma based on your and @LIrala's suggestion. Raladic (talk) 22:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support there are pansexuals, bisexuals, heteroflexible and hetereosexuals engaging in these roles --Beneutral100 (talk) 12:14, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.