Template:Did you know nominations/Jack Baer (art dealer)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vanamonde93 (talk) 13:40, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Jack Baer (art dealer)

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... that British art dealer Sir Jack Baer saved £150 million of art for the nation?

ALT1 ... that British art dealer Sir Jack Baer's career blossomed after his boss Max was jailed for fraud, and another Max suddenly died and Baer took over his business?

ALT2 ... that in 1955, British art dealer Sir Jack Baer bought 35 works by out-of-favour 19th-century French artists including Corot, Millet and Rousseau, for a mere £10,000?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Rivka Basman Ben-Hayim‎#Rivka Basman Ben-Hayim
Comment: other hooks welcome

Created by Edwardx (talk) and Joseph2302 (talk). Nominated by Edwardx (talk) at 19:58, 3 June 2016 (UTC).

This article has close paraphrasing issues:

Article (Personal Life - the first one): Jack Mervyn Frank Baer was born on 29 August 1924, the son of Frank Baer, a business executive with the British Metal Corporation, who was of German Jewish extraction, and had settled in England as a young man.

Source: Jack Mervyn Baer was born on August 29 1924, the son of Frank Baer, a businessman of German-Jewish extraction who had settled in England as a young man.

Note: the source I am quoting is number 2 in the article, but the attribution in the article is to reference 1.

Article (Career): In 1948, Baer took over the Hazlitt Gallery, and built it into "a world-class concern", and in 1973, a merger created Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox, opening a New York affiliate gallery.

Source: From 1948, when he took over the obligations of the fledgling Hazlitt Gallery, Baer built up his business into a world-class concern. Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox was formed as the result of a merger in 1973, and an affiliate gallery was opened in New York.

Article (Career): He was managing director of Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox from 1973, until 1992, when he became chairman.

Source: He became Managing Director of the merged Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox in '1973 and succeeded as Chairman in 1992.

Article (Career): Baer left Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox in 2001 to set up his own consultancy.

[1]: This month Baer leaves the gallery with which he has been associated for 54 years, Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox, to set up his own consultancy.

Article (Career): From 1977 to 1980, Baer was chairman of the Society of London Art Dealers. Baer served on the Museums and Galleries Commission, where he worked as chairman of the acceptance in lieu panel; Baer is estimated to have saved £150 million of art. He became a member of the Reviewing Committee on Export of Works of Art in 1992.

Source: Chairman of the Society of London Art Dealers from 1977 until 1980. Served on the Museums and Galleries Commission and became a Member of the Reviewing Committee on Export of Works of Art in 1992.

Article (Personal Life - the second one): From 1952 to 1969, Baer was married to the English actress Jean St. Clair, and they had one daughter together. In 1970, he married Diana Downes Baillieu, and she survived him, as did his daughter, and two stepdaughters

Source: Jack Baer married first, in 1952, the actress Jean St Clair (marriage dissolved 1969), and secondly, in 1970, Diana Downes Baillieu; she survives him with his daughter from the first marriage and two stepdaughters.'

To illustrate the extent of the paraphrasing issue, here is the full text of the body of the article with issues from above highlighted:

Jack Mervyn Frank Baer was born on 29 August 1924, the son of Frank Baer, a business executive with the British Metal Corporation, who was of German Jewish extraction, and had settled in England as a young man.

He was educated at Bryanston School, as was the slightly older artist Lucien Freud, and they would meet again in later life, followed by the Slade School of Fine Art.

In 1948, Baer took over the Hazlitt Gallery, and built it into "a world-class concern", and in 1973, a merger created Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox, opening a New York affiliate gallery.

He was managing director of Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox from 1973, until 1992, when he became chairman. Baer left Hazlitt, Gooden & Fox in 2001 to set up his own consultancy.

From 1977 to 1980, Baer was chairman of the Society of London Art Dealers. Baer served on the Museums and Galleries Commission, where he worked as chairman of the acceptance in lieu panel; Baer is estimated to have saved £150 million of art. He became a member of the Reviewing Committee on Export of Works of Art in 1992. In 2003, Baer was part of an advisory committee overseeing the updating of information on 1933-45 collections in UK museums.

Baer was knighted in 1997.

From 1952 to 1969, Baer was married to the English actress Jean St. Clair, and they had one daughter together. In 1970, he married Diana Downes Baillieu, and she survived him, as did his daughter, and two stepdaughters

Other issues: Three of the references are bare urls. Classified as a stub. Barely long enough (1591 characters). Two sections headed "Personal Life". Hook fact is cited, though not sure if it is clear that the money is from Acceptance in Lieu. EdChem (talk) 12:47, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

EdChem I've removed the copyvios, see [2]. Also filled in refs, renamed one of the "Personal Life" sections and changed rating to start. QPQ done. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:43, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Joseph2302 No, you haven't. Here's what you've done: [3] You've fixed the bare urls (good), changed the duplicate title (good) and redrafted one sentence. Earwig may give a low percentage but the examples above are still there. Remember that copying a sequence of ideas with a few altered words is still close paraphrasing and still not ok. I listed three different sources that have been closely paraphrased - if they had all been in one that would be a much higher percentage on Earwig, but them being from different sources doesn't lessen the seriousness from a policy perspective. EdChem (talk) 13:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC) Note also that the changed sentence which you still attribute to the Times is actually lifted from the Telegraph reference, and your changes haven't changed the sequence of ideas at all. EdChem (talk) 13:04, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you EdChem and Joseph2302. Been rather busy in the real world. Today, I will be expanding the article (trying to find something to bas a snappier hook on), and looking at the paraphrasing issues. Will let you know when it is worth having another look. Edwardx (talk) 12:08, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

I think I've dealt with the issues. Most of the stuff is simple facts and names that cannot be copyrighted, and paraphrasing possibilities are often limited. I have added two ALTs that are both more interesting than my original hook. Edwardx (talk) 14:04, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

@Edwardx: I have received another view here from Crow which confirms my concerns that duplicating the sequence of ideas is problematic. Perhaps I should post for a new review to see if some other editor concurs with my concern or is willing to give a tick? EdChem (talk) 08:34, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

I think some of the concerns above are overbroad - there are only so many ways to express a person's date of birth. However, there are still a few instances where the structure is a bit close for comfort. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

I have done some further rephrasing. As for any "sequence of ideas", it is simply chronological order, standard in any bio. Edwardx (talk) 19:41, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Good enough. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Note: full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

This article is new enough and long enough. Approving the original hook which is interesting and has an inline citation (ALT1 is too complex and ALT2 lacks an inline citation). The article is neutral and Nikkimaria is happy that any close paraphrasing issues have been addressed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)