User talk:Kudpung/Archive Mar 2011

Beat the 'crat congrats

Well, it's not official yet, but on the basis of 84% support I think I can confidently congratulate you on the admin bit which should be coming any minute now.

If you're not a teetotaller then drink this, and if you are then use it to shampoo your hair. If you're a bald teetotaller, well, it's the thought that counts.

In the serious advice section, I will be lazy and copy-paste what I wrote to Boing! said Zebedee, rather than make the effort to write you a custom note. I recommend looking round to see what you can poach to put in User:Kudpung/monobook.js. There's lots of good stuff to go in there that can be really useful to admins, and copying from others who have already found it is a good way to get it. Also, put a handy link to Template:Admin dashboard somewhere, if you haven't already: it's pretty useful. I trust you will look into Wikipedia:New admin school, and when you've done so you may or may not find Wikipedia:What you won't learn in new admin school helpful: I did, but it's a matter of personal taste. Do ask other admins for advice and instructions. You will, I am sure, soon become a very proficient administrator, but while you are getting there I'm sure we will all be happy to give you help when you can use it. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:36, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

- and you know from past experience that you are going to be one admin whom I will be continuing to pester for advice on policy. Thankyou James, for all your kind support since you got the mop yourself. Kudpung (talk) 09:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

You are now an administrator

Congratulations, I have just closed your RfA as successful and made you an administrator. Take a look at the administrators' how-to guide and the administrators' reading list if you haven't read those already. Also, the practice exercises at the new admin school may be useful. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to get in touch on my talk page. WJBscribe (talk) 10:06, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you WJB! --Kudpung (talk) 10:08, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

THANKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations!

Thank you everyone! - supporters and opposers alike. I'm not sending out thankspam, because there are some of you who don't like it, and it would be too much work to send you all some nice individual words, but I'll catch up with you all later. Likewise, please don't feel obliged to spam my talk page with congratulations - a packet of Aspirin and five barnstars from each of you will be quite sufficient, but please not on my talk page.

Now I'm off to scare some kids and burn down a few primary schools. Kudpung (talk) 10:09, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh dear. I've already congratulated you, and now you say you don't want lots of congrats here. (Shrinks back and crawls into hole.) JamesBWatson (talk) 10:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

And you're getting my congrats too, whether you want it or not! I have one or two observations, but I'll spare you for now. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:19, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Congrats, well deserved! Strange Passerby (talk • contribs • Editor review) 10:26, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

• Terrific. Congratulations!!! You can copy the scripts from my books... Thanks. Wifione _....... ^{Leave a message}
• My hearty congrats, and I trust you will enjoy the extra buttons and use them firmly but fairly. Again, best wishes! Jusdafax 11:12, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratualations (even though Adminship is supposed to be a "demotion", on dit)! Now I can bug you for a favour I've been meaning to ask for, hmmm, about ten months... --Shirt58 (talk) 11:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Welcome to the admin world! :) I've given you an admin T-shirt and a drink. HeyMid (contribs) 11:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congrats! I don't think we've had any interaction, but as another who got in on a relatively close margin, I've been there and done that, and I !voted for you. By the way, junior admin brings coffee for everyone, you know, you can buy the wheeled tank from the last sucker.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:19, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• And about time too! Alzarian16 (talk) 12:36, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Welcome to the madhouse. - Dank (push to talk) 12:50, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratulations Kudpung (and yes after all that I'm not missing out on posting it on your talk page). Use the tools well! CT Cooper · talk 13:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratulations on the promotion -- and on getting through the RfA with your sense of humor intact. You'll do fine. --Orlady (talk) 13:26, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

• Good luck with your new job! Maybe this will be better than some aspirins! Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:00, 2 March 2011 (UTC) (BTW, I took the liberty of removing the outdated icons.)
• Congratulations - well-deserved. I was extremely pleased to se the nomination, and ven happoer to see the result.SPhilbrickT 14:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congrats! —SW— ^chatter 14:59, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratulations, and well deserved! --joe decker^{talk to me} 16:18, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Heartiest congratulations, well done! – SMasters (talk) 17:03, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratulations from me, as well! See my response to your message on my talk page. – GorillaWarfare ^{talk • contribs} 20:24, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Not sure how I missed the RfA, but I'm sure you'll use the tools wisely. Good luck! Nev1 (talk) 20:28, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratulations Kudpung! Drmies (talk) 21:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Félicitations, je vous souhaite une belle réussite. Great!!! Best regards --Geneviève (talk) 21:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• a bit late, but congrats! Kayau Voting IS evil 22:22, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• a dark day for Wikipedia Silent Billy (talk) 23:42, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Late Congrats! (however, the earliest I could). Good Luck. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 02:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• Good on ya mate! -- œ^™ 04:44, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congrats. Don't listen to anyone about how great this gig is. I haven't receive any of the genitalia photographs I was promised. May you be more fortunate. Danger (talk) 10:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

  

  They fall so enticingly. Use wisely.

• Congratulations; have a good one. bobrayner (talk) 13:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• Nice one, I'll let you know when someone spills water on my floor. – SMasters (talk) 15:29, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congratulations - I did not spot you had applied. Hope you ordered the large size bucket to go with the mop! Keith D (talk) 16:42, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
• Good job man! Liked working with you on Malvern Water and your conscientious editing style should help you succeed as admin. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
• Congrats mate, do us proud and don't delete the main page! :) —Ancient Apparition • Champagne? • 12:34pm • 01:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Please be the mentor for the students working on Grassroots lobbying

Hi again, Kudpung! I'm currently trying to assign mentors to all the remaining groups in Professor Obar's class. Would you be the mentor for the group of students working on Grassroots lobbying (not yet created)? If you can do it, thanks! If not, please let me know.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 01:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I already have one student on the Abassadors program to mentor already, and because I now have to find my feet as a sysop, I have a lot of reading up on stuff to do over the next few weeks and finding out how the tools work, so I'm afraid I'll have to decline this time round. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 05:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Online Ambassador Program

Please take a look at this project page and see if you can be a mentor to one of the many Areas of Study. If you can, please put your name in the "Online Mentor" area of the Area of Study of your choice and then contact the students you will be working with. As the Coordinating Online Ambassador for this project, please let me know if I can be of assistance. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. See my reply to sage above :) Kudpung (talk) 05:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, sorry about that. Congrats on your adminship, though. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at JamesBWatson's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

JamesBWatson (talk) 14:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Wow

I haven't seen this page in my watchlist in years! Thanks for the fix...I hadn't noticed the error since I had forgotten I even had that page! I've also commented on the talk page. Congratulations on your successful RfA too. Best. Acalamari 14:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks :) Kudpung (talk) 14:56, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Recent CSD

The Eliette bisson (sp?) page was just deleted:

13:36, March 4, 2011 Lectonar (talk

— contribs) deleted "Eliette bisson" ‎ (A7: Article about a real person, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject)

Perhaps I was right after all? Lord Chamberlain, the Renowned (talk) 13:40, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I did a WP:BEFORE and found some sources. Perhaps the deletion was an edit conflict. We'll see if the creator refers. Please consider not tagging quite so quickly, especially when WP:BLPPROD can be applied. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 13:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

My slight error, it was not of course a living person, but it could still have been tagged for 'ref improve' or'noref' unless you believe it was really not notable. Has lots of refs in the French Google. Never mind.--Kudpung (talk) 13:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

NPP

Hey, I saw your recent message on my talk page. I did a little digging and found some fishy stuff. See my recent post at WP:VPT. —SW— ^confer 19:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I also left a message at User talk:Kamkek regarding his prolific patrolling. —SW— ^spout 19:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I've been watching Kamkek for a long while. I though DGG was going to have a word. There are a lot of odd things going on tonight, including my first mistake with the tools (Gaw!). --Kudpung (talk) 20:03, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

PS - looks like he did - twice already. --Kudpung (talk) 20:16, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

How do you do that?

I was wondering, how is it you can put a custom message on the talk page when some one clicks the edit button? --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Kudpung created User talk:Kudpung/Editnotice. You can do the same with User talk:Jerem43/Editnotice. You can read more about it at Wikipedia:Editnotice. 28bytes (talk) 20:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

yes, but you need WP:account creator or admin rights to do it - unless the rules have been changed recently. --Kudpung (talk) 20:13, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Not in your own userspace. You don't need ACC or Admin to do it in your userspace -- I have them on my User and talk pages. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 20:16, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)::Sorry, you can do it for your own, but not for other pages. --Kudpung (talk) 20:18, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, you can edit other people's user talk page edit notices without any advanced rights. Just tested it myself on yours. :) 28bytes (talk) 20:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, whaddayaknow! --Kudpung (talk) 20:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you guys! It worked... --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:39, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Royal Grammar School, Guildford

I would like to thank you for your comments on the Royal Grammar School, Guildford article, I thought you might like to know that the article is now a GA :) (bringing the number across the project to 24). As for the info-box I think you already know my opinion on the appearance on the UK school version. Since for this article none of the special features (DfE number, Ofstead, etc) are being used as the school is not state maintained, I would like to keep it with the generic info-box if thats ok? Thank you again for your comments on the article. Glanis^Talk 15:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Like you, I'm well aware that the generic box is far more attractive and I fully support your rationle. However, the UK schools infobox is currently undergoing a lot of new programming, amongst other things to incorporate the parameters for independent schools and their inspectorates (ISC, etc, see also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools/Article guidelines#United Kingdom). I am not involved in that talk because I have so many plates spinning at the moment, but now would be a very good time to join the discussion and voice your opinion because there might not always be enough players to assure a consensus. One of the problems with school infoboxes is that really too many different ones have been created in the past, and where the majority of school articles are created by SPA who don't read WP:WPSCH/AG, we're trying to cut down on the confusion. We currently have over 5,000 UK schools using the wrong boxes of one kind or another. There should be no technical difficulties in improving the aesthetics, but the programmers may consider it to be low on the priorities just for the moment. Do keep me up to date :) --Kudpung (talk) 21:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Redirect vs Prod for non-notable UK schools

Replied to you on my talk page, thanks for the note. TheGrappler (talk) 21:47, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Dams in Isan

Kudpung, thanks for the offer and congrats on your RFA. There is always pictures and information on the Sirindhorn Dam, Ubol Ratana Dam and Pak Mun Dam but I think some of those are several hours east of you. I was just recently in Thailand; Lampang, Bangkok, Rayong and Pattaya. Not too many dams there but a neat place.--NortyNort (Holla) 01:14, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

F and A

Hi, could you check the blurb on you here, and change if you wish? Tony (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Opt-in

Hi Kudpung, for Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/JaGa, I've created the JS pages to opt-in. Did I miss anything? Thanks, --JaGa^talk 06:53, 9 March 2011 (UTC):It's not working> I can't remember how to do it but you should be getting something like this http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/pcount/index.php?name=Kudpung&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia. It's important that RfA voters can access this. Sorry I can't be of more help. --Kudpung (talk) 07:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you for granting me the honor and the privilege of being a Reviewer. I will continue to do my best to earn the confidence of the community.

Best regards: Cliff L. Knickerbocker, MS (talk) 01:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Protection International

Hi, Kudpung, sorry to bother you. I'm just working through some of the historic unreviewed article backlogs and have come across this article. I get the feeling it's been copied and pasted from a source. A google search revels many other sites with the the same text, but they all cite Wikipedia as a source. Even if it is not a copyright violation then it does seem very 'adverty'. I'm not sure if is blatant enough for CSD though, would you mind taking a look? Pol430 talk to me 11:16, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Scratch the adverty bit Pol430 talk to me 11:17, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Protection international (with a small 'i') was once tagged for CSD and speedy deleted because the creator had blanked the page. It was a very short one-line stub by the same creator. There are a lot of sites that mirror Wikipedia content. If those sites with this text clearly attribute it to Wikipedia, that may be alright, but you'll have to check up on our rules about this. It may even be a translation of a French text from somewhere, such as for example http://www.lamediatheque.be/loc/part_protection_international.php?reset=1&secured= but this would be harder to prove without knowing some of the sentences in the original. I agree, even though you struck it, that the page does sound spammy - no organisations whether commercial or not are allowed to promote themselves through Wikipedia. You'll need to check the creator and see if you consider there to be a WP:COI. A quick random look at the refs show me that they may be what I call 'scraping the barrel for notability'. Many of the refs seem to be used by the article to justify Protection International's raison d'être, but such refs do not assert notability. The user name Quentinnoirfalisse is a unique coined word but it shows up a couple of times in Google. A Quentin Falisse has a page on a social networking site at http://fr.netlog.com/Quentin0u/shouts, also Belgian, and also a black (noir) coloured site - this may just be conincidences even though the name is again not common.

• Ref #17 is an entirely personal blog written by a Clette Braekmaref http://blog.lesoir.be/colette-braeckman/2009/06/24/affaire-maheshe-une-parodie-de-justice-a-bukavu/ on WordPress sofware hosted by lesoir.be, a Belgian news website owned by Rossel & Cie. S.A. - if lesoir is a mainstream newspaper, then the blog may be subject to the newspaper's editorial controls, but it doesn't look like it. Rossel & Cie. S.A. seems to be a a holding company for a group of news medias including print.
• Ref #6 is a Belgian parliamentary bill about NGO's, but is not specifically about Protection International
• Ref #7 Is a German parliamentary bill concerning the protection of NGOs; It mentions nothing specific about Protection International.
• Ref #8 Is a Spanish parliamentary bill concerning the protection of NGOs; It mentions nothing specific about Protection International, and the cited page numbers don't gel.
• Ref #9 Is a Spanish parliamentary bill but according to Firefox it is a risky website.
• Ref #11 http://www.reliefweb.int/ocha_ol/pub/idp_gp/idp.html is another United Nations paper on which Protection Interbational bases it philosophy

Nevertheless, this NGO seems to be important and may well be notable - it appears to have the support of the EU. The remaining refs need to be checked to see if they are WP:RS third party articles about Protection Internationale. Articles like this are often written in good faith, but spam is spam. If you have time, do some more research and let me know how you get on - we might both learn something. --Kudpung (talk) 13:52, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Kudpung, I will re-visit the article soon Pol430 talk to me 19:47, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

NOTE: This thread has been copied to Talk:Protection International. Kudpung (talk) 04:25, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Karina Longworth

Hi Kudpung, did you see my final message on the page Talk:Karina Longworth? I want to thank you very much your help.--Foobarnix (talk) 21:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I've asked Tony to take another look at this. I wouldn't worry about immediate deletion though - let that come from an uninvolved editor if it does. --Kudpung (talk) 02:01, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The reason I have several times asked that it be sent "to WP:AfD where the community will decide." as you suggested on 08:59, 8 March 2011 is that I want the issue settled one way or the other so that I can move on. I have done some research and I have noticed that pages that attract certain kinds of attention are almost always deleted sooner or later. I will be very nervous until either I can get the tags removed from the article, or it is deleted or kept by consensus. I cannot spend any more time fighting for this one page. Let the chips fall where they may. Thanks for everything--Foobarnix (talk) 04:40, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

All of us, including admins, have had pages deleted in the past. It's no big issue - we learn from the experience, improve our knowledge of policies, and move on to create better pages about other subjects, edit and improve other articles, or join in with bringing articles up to Good Article status. Tony and I have now both taken an in-depth look at Karina and neither of us is in a hurry to remove the tags, because someone else might come along and find just the right references. We also therefore feel there's no point in forcing the the article through the AfD process just to get a ruling on it. The concern you have shown for the Karina article convinces me that you'll find some other articles to work on, and if at any time you need any suggestions, help, or advice, don't hesitate to ask me on my talk page.--Kudpung (talk) 08:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi I had seen this. That's OK with me.--Foobarnix (talk) 20:50, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

For you.....

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	Lets see....for passing RFA, being a superb editor, helping others, a _small_ sense of humor, ohh and did I mention being a superb editor?. Thanks Tofutwitch11 (TALK) 01:39, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Tofu! The kind words mean much, much more to me than the barnstar itself. I hope this has nothing to do with the barnstar issues that were raised on my RfA and nearly caused me to fail ;) <joke>. Take care, and if you need any help at all with anything, you know whose door you can knock. --Kudpung (talk) 01:58, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations, Thanks, and other?

Congratulations on the RfA. Now you can be looked at with more scrutiny! Sarcasm aside, you've done a great job. Also, thanks for participating in my RfA, I actually have to say you brought up some points that have affected my editing. I also found your biography most interesting. These three random points aside, I would like to congratulate you, and thank you for your involvement. NativeForeigner ^Talk/_Contribs 04:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for those kind words. Mine was the first 'oppose' vote on your RfA, and actually I had every intention of moving that !vote at least to 'neutral' but by the time I got round to it, it was all over. The main thing is you passed, and you are doing a grand job - I hope I'll be able to meet the communities expectations too :) Kudpung (talk) 05:05, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

So far so good in my book! :) NativeForeigner ^Talk/_Contribs 06:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

My first and probably last photo I add to Wikipedia :|

Kudpung! I have managed to make a mess :/ The photo I tried to upload for some reason is'nt showing up on the article...instead when I click the old image for some reason my image comes up....what did I do wrong...? Oh-- the Article is... Casey Novak.... Im like stressing here :S -- MelbourneStar☆ (talk) 09:47, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm looking into it... --Kudpung (talk) 09:48, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

There's this photo: File:Casey Novak - SVU.jpg in the infobox, which you uploaded. Isn't that what you wanted? --Kudpung (talk) 09:52, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

If you click that picture your talking about, you'll then see another picture, which was the one I uploaded. Then you will notice how I basically have messed this up :/ -- MelbourneStar☆ (talk) 09:54, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Kudpung!!! Its working!!!!! :)) Thank You SOOO Much for your Help! :)!! -- MelbourneStar☆ (talk) 09:57, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

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Marking articles students are working on

Howdy, Online Ambassador!

This is a quick message to all the ambassadors about marking and tracking which articles students are working on. For the classes working with the ambassador program, please look over any articles being worked on by students (in particular, any ones you are mentoring, but others who don't have mentors as well) and do these things:

1. Add {{WAP assignment | term = Spring 2011 }} to the articles' talk pages. (The other parameters of the {{WAP assignment}} template are helpful, so please add them as well, but the term = Spring 2011 one is most important.)
2. If the article is related to United States public policy, make sure the article the WikiProject banner is on the talk page: {{WikiProject United States Public Policy}}
3. Add Category:Article Feedback Pilot (a hidden category) to the article itself. The second phase of the Article Feedback Tool project has started, and this time we're trying to include all of the articles students are working on. Please test out the Article Feedback Tool, as well. The new version just deployed, so any bug reports or feedback will be appreciated by the tech team working on it.

And of course, don't forget to check in on the students, give them constructive feedback, praise them for positive contributions, award them {{The WikiPen}} if they are doing excellent work, and so on. And if you haven't done so, make sure any students you are mentoring are listed on your mentor profile.

Thanks! --Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 18:12, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I Need Advice

Hey Kudpung, I was wondering if you could maybe give me some advice on how to distribute the genres on a particular album? I have found sources stating that an album (Passages (Frank Gambale album)) is contemporary jazz/smooth jazz, jazz fusion. Yet, the person I'm arguing with does not want me to put contemporary jazz. Instead he wants instrumental rock to be in the forefront; and he doesn't even have a valid source stating that the album is instrumental rock. The thing is that this album is only about: 50% contemporary/smooth jazz, 25% jazz fusion, and 25% instrumental rock. So what should I do? Thanks.

My sources for the album being contemporary jazz/smooth jazz: http://www.allmusic.com/album/passages-r203663 http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/FrankGambale6 http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/FrankGambale14 Sprecher (talk)

I would suggest that you explain your problem again on the article talk page in much that same way as you have explained it here, with the percentages. Reliable sources are important and will trump anything that is not sourced. Unsourced claims are either point of view or original research, neither of which is acceptable. 'Jazz' is an extremely broad term and as a 'jazz' musician and former jazz journalist I often found it hard to clearly define the sub-genres. As Wikipedia articles, track listings annoy me, because I feel editors should go the extra mile to include some interesting reading rather than just a list. This may be an opportunity to expand the list with short descriptions of the individual tracks with their genres. In the infobox, perhaps it could be acceptable by all parties to say 'Mainly jazz. (Mixed genres)', or something similar. Do take note however of the most recent message on your talk page - it appears that the other editor(s) is/are open to compromise. Please also remember to sign your posts.

I hope this helps. Kudpung (talk) 03:37, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Hey, well thanks for replying. Feel free to interfere any time. For some reason this guy really wants instrumental rock on this album; yet he has no good source stating that Passages has instrumental rock. Personally, I think he may be a little bias. Listen to the whole album yourself and tell us what you think: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/FrankGambale6. Me and him are discussing this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mac_Dreamstate. Thanks!!! Sprecher (talk)

Yo Kudpung, thanks for saving the day!!! Sprecher (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:57, 17 March 2011 (UTC).

From the message I left on Sprecher's talk page, it got me thinking: would you, Kudpung, happen to know where I can find the archived discussion of the 2008 music genre debate on Wikipedia? I used to know where it was back then, but its since probably wound up deep within the depths of... somewhere. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 10:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, can't help. However, if you can remember any of the phrases that were in it, try Google - Google is sometimes a better search engine that the Wiki's built-in one. Kudpung (talk) 11:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

No worries. I managed to find it buried within the discussion archives of Template:Infobox album, which eventually led me here, all the way to here. Whew! It'll take some time for me to read all that, but I'm interested to know how they eventually came to a consensus on keeping it. I was a pretty strong advocate of keeping the genres on the infobox back then (even though I didn't participate in the discussion), but now I find myself re-thinking that stance. Oh well. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:51, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Ryan Neil Falcone

Could you take a look at this article (if it's still there) as well as the potential shenanigans on the talk page? Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Golly! Interesting. It'll take me a while to untangle it all. I'll start by having a peek at the deleted version. I'm not a CU but I have one or two tricks up my sleeve. I'll let you know how I get on. --Kudpung (talk) 11:30, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

This is what I think:

• withmanyshades is a Google blogspot that anyone can create and populate. Not RS.
• macabrecadaver is membership only access. I don;t regard sites like this with much RS.
• lightningflashmag does not assert any kind of notability
• The deleted version is far too similar for there to be any coincidence. It was created by Cmagha.
• Cmm388 is a new account. First edit was a minor edit to an unconnected page. Second edit was the creation.
• Cindamuse is a very trusted editor.
• 128.84.156.32 is a new IP user, first and only edits are to contribute to Facon. Two basically blank edits. Could be someone who genuinely forgot to login. Could be Dsker5
• Ajh256 New user. 13 edits since 5 Mar. Has an interest in Cornell. Rather knowledgeable about policies, editing, and processes for a new user. Very similar to Cmm388 and Cmagha.
• Dsker5 new account created 6 Mar. Could be 128.84.156.32
• Too many meaty fish in this pond with the same DNA. I find the 'co-worker' defence in the previous ISP highly suspicious. I realise that the CUs were acting in GF, but more recently CUs now tend to block more often on circumstantial evidence (Eg.: User talk:Tofutwitch11, whom I know not to be a sockmaster - nevertheless I have the greatest respect for Beeblebrox). I suggest starting a new SPI based on the new evidence, calling on the old one. And it looks to me as if the article is a valid CSD. Could be sent to Afd though. The effort should be to not turn its talk page into a pseudo Afd. Kudpung (talk) 12:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. The admin who declined the speedy immediately put it up for AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Neil Falcone (2nd nomination). I'm going to start an SPI on Cmagha. Voceditenore (talk) 13:48, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

• Help. I started Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Cmagha, but it doesn't show up on Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. Did I do something wrong, or does an adminstrator add it there? Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been away from my macine for 2 hours. Don't worry, it's there. You'll have to wait awhile now for comments to come in. Ill be watching it. BTW, the admin who declined the CSD and sent it to AfD is one of the best we've got for BLP issues. Kudpung (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I didn't ask for a CheckUser, but apparently they ran one and the conclusion is that they are all likely "friends and associates" of Cmagha and none of them are likely to actually be him. Give his past MO, that's quite plausible too, but like you, I didn't buy the story from the original SPI. Simply co-workers in the same government agency who all happen to be wildly interested in the fate of articles about Cmagha's fraternity and its members, and who helpfully edited for him while he was blocked? Ah well, I now await the arrival of the flashmob at the AfD. ;-) And yes, I do have your talk page on permanent watch, so need for talkbacks. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:52, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Time for the CUs to get their WP:DUCKS in a row. Kudpung (talk) 18:02, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

It's amazing how the time flies - I've spent four hours going through all this. See my comments at the SPI. Kudpung (talk) 20:03, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Dynamic duo

User:123456789cheese‎ and User:Roberthaha seem to be vandalizing in tandem. What's your take? The Interior (Talk) 13:11, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I've just deleted something from Cheese. I'll go back and have another look at them both.--Kudpung (talk) 13:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Nice observation. Pretty obviously vandalism-only accounts by the same user. I won't block them just yet - it may just incite them to make more accounts. I would suggest you keep their talk pages and contributed articles on your watchlist and wait for their next move. Then you can either file a SPI, or let me know directly. --Kudpung (talk) 13:33, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured that wasn't coincidental. Chopin does look like Hitler in that photo though. cheers, The Interior (Talk) 13:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Empty votes

Any chance you could swiftly move this over to WT:RFA#Are votes with no rationale "useless noise"? - I'm sure you understand why. I'm trying to keep the RfA on-topic. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  03:00, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

It was an edit conflict - my connection is much slower than yours. Point taken, however. I'll copy it to the discussion. The problem is that the vast majority of RfA !voters - and candidates! - don't even know about the existence of WT:RFA. I'll have a chat with you later about WT:RFA in general, because I would like your feedback on one or two aspects of the talk page itself. --Kudpung (talk) 03:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Yep yep, all good, thanks very much.

I appreciate "copied" - RfA, can't be too careful. But maybe you could also strike it on the RfA, and put moved to WT:RFA. Maybe. I'm just doing my best to keep RfA sane. (yes, yes, I know...it is indeed like trying to plait fog).

Talk to me any time, sure. Also Chzzlive.co.uk and, more directly, via IRC.

Cheers and beers,  Chzz  ►  03:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

With the the greatest of respect Chzz, because I know that you, like me, are deeply concerned about the farce that the RfA process has become, I'm going to leave it there unstruck this time. But I will remember your solution to unrelated chat on RfAs and I'll tend to use it too in the future. There is also of course, the possiblity of using the talk page of the individual RfA, but in my experience, hardly anyone looks at it. What should we do about new kids on the block who talk in a difficult-for-the-most-people-to-understand prose? I'm all for new impetus, but much more of this, and I'll abandon RfA as a focus of my interest. Kudpung (talk) 03:41, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh Gods, I agree with you so much. Anything longer than 140 characters (or whatever the twits can handle is tl;dr. And RfA is so broken, yes, I quite understand anyone who abandons it as beyond repair. We need to discuss this more. Mostly, we agree.  Chzz  ►  04:05, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I suppose Jimbo's statement today clinches it once and for all. I propose putting an end to the cyclic perennial talk at WT:RfA and getting something done about it. My idea would be to take all the threads on that page since 1 Jan 2010 and organising them into separate talk pages per improvement topic, then running an RfC on each of them. Doable? Kudpung (talk) 12:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I really don't know the best approach - and not for lack of thinking. I've been wondering how we could "fix" things for years. Some people say RfA is the worst form of selection except for all the others (paraphrasing Churchill) - and they have a point.

I understand what you mean about the talk archives - and maybe something could be gleaned from them, to form proposals that could be accepted. I just don't know - because so many times, so many things have been suggested...and they've never got consensus.

Any suggestion of the 'usual' types - unbundling, or 'trainee admin', or changing it to a closed vote, or whatever - meet fairly stiff reasoned opposition and, with some justification, people just point to WP:PEREN or the archived discussions. A lot of people rub their chins and say "yes, in theory, BUT...".

The ideas I spoke about in email - making it much less of a "big deal" - is what I personally think should happen - but I doubt it ever will happen.

I'm sorry that's all so negative, but...well, it is an enormous problem, it is one I've given considerable thought to, and I haven't really come up with any solution that I think could work (or at least, that could pass consensus).

Maybe some changes could though. For example, recently I have been following the discussion Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Time limits on adminship. Whilst I don't think that proposal will work, what I do see is, quite a lot of support for some (long) time limitation, but with no enforced break period - ie, admins who became admins more than 6 years ago would have to re-apply via RfA. I'm not, currently, sure how many that would affect - and I am trying to get stats on that. I asked on User talk:WereSpielChequers#Stats question, but if xe doesn't have the info I guess nobody does - so I'll probably be trying to gather that for myself.

I believe Commons has been removing inactive SysOps recently, but got off to a rather poor start when they removed Jimbo (as one of the first changes).

Still - it may be worth looking over the archives, and seeing if there was any possible ideas. It'll be quite a big undertaking to get anything coherent though. I'm not sure if you've been following WP:PCRFC - but I suspect, if anything, it'd be even more difficult than that one.  Chzz  ►  03:51, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I follow all those discussions but I have not !voted on some because they are TLDR and with my slow connection I can't get a word in edgeways because of edit conflicts. I think there could be something to be gained by parsing the major topics on WT:RfA over the last 12 months or so and see where I get. Much of the reason why the threads are perennial is because new threads get started and the interest in the previous ones gets clouded. I'll start by creating a sub user page to do this , so you'll be able to check it out from time to time. It will be a long job because I don't think it's possible to create a script that will help. Kudpung (talk) 04:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

It's going to be an uphill battle. If there's anything I've learned lately, it's that it is nearly impossible to get a consensus on anything when hundreds of people are involved. It would be difficult to get an agreement that "the sky is blue" around here if you posted it somewhere where hundreds of people could see it. My proposal would be to create a process whereby a committee is chosen/elected, and we task that committee of 10 or so editors to come to a consensus on how to fix RfA. Then, whatever they end up deciding is what we are bound to do. Otherwise, a meaningful change will never be made because someone will always find a reason to oppose it, and then their friends will jump on the bandwagon and oppose it, etc. etc. etc. —SW— ^converse 14:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Funny you should say that - it's exactly what I said to CT Cooper when we were discussing getting a consensus on the notability ruling for schools. Getting a consensus for the BLPPROD was my major lesson in getting things done at Wikipedia. Problem is, you'd have to get a consensus to agree to have a comittee, and then have voting for the members of the committee and then... Kudpung (talk) 15:05, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

It is also what I've been suggesting for the PC debate - after all the existing reams of discussion, I think it makes sense to appoint a small committee to come up with clear and specific proposals based on evaluation of consensus, which can then be put to the community in a managable short way. I thought of 12, which we use in UK juries. My rough draft thoughts were here on 3 March. At present, the debate is just rambling; I think - eventually - something like that will be the way ahead. Same could well be true of RfA change, and N-Schools. Chzz  ►  17:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

From my answer to Q4 at my RfA: I think many of us learned a lot through that process that our method of insisting on consensus by everyone for every little detail makes a process extremely long, and drawn out. Some editors actually resigned from Wikipedia from fatigue on that project. I believe that for site-wide operations like this, we ought to lend more confidence in sub-comittees or work groups with defined members who can reach their own consensus and report back to a steering committee. I am not suggesting that we overturn or modify the Wikipedia fundamental philosophy of consensus, but a show of hands occasionally would get things done faster. One of the main problems with the BLPPROD programme was that new people would come in on it at very late stages and make some very aggressive demands for things to be reviewed all over again, and this began to be quite a problem.
Kudpung (talk) 17:10, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

• I think that one of the problems with wt:RFA proposals is that people will hijack each thread at wt:RFA to revive their own hobbyhorses. So any reform package that involves changing policy needs to be structured to contain multiple threads at the same time - I'd suggest an RFC with separate transcluded RFCs for each option of change. Those that are at peren need a section that explains the previous reasons for rejection and ideally makes a case that the past reasons for rejection no longer apply or can be mitigated. Getting consensus for change is difficult, and yes people will come in at any stage, but we did get consensus for BLPprod. An easier and possibly earlier phase for RFA reform is to float some of the ideas that don't need consensus to enact. I may jot a few ideas down at user:WereSpielChequers/RFA reform. ϢereSpielChequers 23:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

User:94.0.216.221

Hi, I'm curious as to why you recently served 94.0.216.221 with a {{subst:uw-vandalism4}} when he had made no edits (other than one to his own user talk page) after I had served a {{subst:uw-vandalism3}} over fifteen hours earlier. His user talk page edit was entirely within that permitted by WP:BLANKING; this, together with his immediate cessation of vandalism, demonstrates that he had read at least one of the three warning messages. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:06, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, there is no ruling that the warnings have to be served incrementally, but you're right that serving them close together is not always useful. I had visited all the pages they vandalised and the diffs. This is clearly a vandalism-only user, and I had in fact considered an immediate block. Instead, I issued a final warning. They've seen the warnings, but by blanking the page other vandalism/RCP patrollers might not check the history before warning again and there comes a time when people do have to be blocked. This might be a shared IP, and it also serves to inform others who may be using the same connection or machine. Keep up the good work on railways. If you need photos of stations in Worcestershire, Herefordshire, or Birmingham to illustrate pages, don't hesitate to let me know. --Kudpung (talk) 00:43, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

When you think about it, it's interesting that someone would only want to vandalise railway stations. railways is not a topic that would generally attract much vandalism. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is a goodhand/badhand account. Kudpung (talk) 10:02, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

G.I.D. AfD

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Danielklotz's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Reply

I Took The Description Form TheWikiManager. Hes A Blocked Sock Puppet So Shouldn't Mind. User:UserBoxen 11:47, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I think perhaps it would be a good idea if you were to edit out all the stuff that doesn't apply to you. It might give the wrong impression if you leave it in. If you're not sure how to do these edits, don't hesitate to ask for my help. --Kudpung (talk) 12:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

hi ! nice to meet you

why deleted the article MIU (Movement for Israeli Urbanism) ? ....... i think you shouldn't deleted the article Mastic ice cream (turkish ice cream + arabic ice cream) . פארוק (talk) 17:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I didn't delete either of them. I've tagged MIU (Movement for Israeli Urbanism) for attention, and the reasons are on the page. Mastic ice cream was deleted by another admin because it was a duplication of an existing article. --Kudpung (talk) 17:25, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

MIU (Movement for Israeli Urbanism) is not a commercial company but only non-profit institution.

Mastic ice cream is a total name of Turkis ice cream (Dondurma) + Arabic ice cream (Booza) becouse there both have the Mastic spice inside.

in israel we call this Mastic ice cream to both of these ice creams. פארוק (talk) 17:38, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

NPP

Hello, Marking as "Patrolled" means that, a page does not have any special problems and does not meet Deletion Critia, and I checked those pages, I still think those have not any problems, they are just stub or orphan. About tagging, tagging process is not very important as the other editors will tag it, on the other hand, the editor may fill the article so tagging tags like stub and orphan should not be done in the first minutes but patrolling should. I appriciate your help and your advice, anything I did wrong? Thanks, Nima Nima1024 (talk) 17:28, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Nima. Patrolling is quite a bit more than that. Apart from the ones that need careful tagging for one of the methods of deletion, there are dozens of reasons for applying tags for other issues. This is important because all those tags automatically list those pages on cats and backlogs that editors are working on. Chances are actually very high that if you don't tag a page for attention, it will go unnoticed. For example, any page that is unreferenced must be tagged for referencing. You need to read up on:

• Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles#Message boxes - this will give you an overview of the main templates we use at NPP. You can add these tags immediately, but try to recognise articles that someone is obviously still working on.
• WP:CSD - This will explain in detail all the criteria for deletion. Remember that you must also put a notification template on the creator's talk page too. remember also that except for blatant nonsense and attack pages, it's best to give a creator some time to finish their article before tagging it.
• WP:NPP - This is very important because it lists all the other tasks that patrollers should be doing. Patrolling is a lot more than just looking at an article, clicking a mouse, and moving on to the next one.

If you want to make things a lot easier, you can install WP:Twinkle. It automates most of the tasks, provides a drop-down menu for tagging and a drop-down menu for deleting. Speed of tagging is absolutely not important - figure that I spend up to five minutes on each new page that I tag. I hope all this helps, keep asking if you're not sure about anything. --Kudpung (talk) 17:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, I also use Twinkle for tagging, so you say that I must tag the pages when I patroll them? Thanks for the info. Nima1024 (talk) 21:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Not every page needs a tag of some kind, but from my own experience of new page patrolling, the majority do need a tag of some sort even if they don't need to be deleted - so you must be very careful not to allow problem pages through without tagging them. Do read the pages I linked to in the message above - most of the answers are in there, but do ask again if you're not sure about anything, and do read about the tasks that patrollers should be doing. Kudpung (talk) 01:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

User:UserBoxen

Well spotted. I've been watching him but hadn't made the connection - I couldn't remember who else it was who capitalized every word. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

We need to keep watching too. I'm still learning how this SPI stuff works - do they put an IP block on a case like this? --Kudpung (talk) 18:02, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Not sure - I think there's an autoblock on the IP, but I don't think it lasts long -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

New pages

hello,

thank you for your message on my talk page! Reading the guideline WP:NPP, it helped me to increase my knowledge about new page patrolling (as you can see I am not a New Page Patroller, but I would like to be some day). I might made a mistake, using the wrong tag, but unfortunately I am not able to see the article again and therefore can not answer to this. Regards!--♫Greatorangepumpkin♫T 21:15, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi

Hey I am a newbie here. I added bit details to Gujar Khan page under Base School System which is now displaying immediate deletion tag. What to do to recover and maintain it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mascot99 (talk • contribs) 07:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, the Base School System page is an advertisment for a school, and the article does not state why the school is important enough for an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia is not a directory for listing schools. Please read the requirements for school articles at WP:WPSCH/AG, and please see how to assert notability at WP:NOTABILITY, and how to include references at WP:RS. If you think you can meet those conditions, please put the {{hang on}} template on the page as described in the instructions, with your comments on the article talk page. --Kudpung (talk) 07:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

A7 doesn't apply to schools. Feezo (Talk) 10:50, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Feezo. You can trout me for this one, because I do know it of course (I said it to someone yesterday), and I'm supppposed to be an expert on schools policy! --Kudpung (talk) 10:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Imsogb

(if the link above is red then disregard this) :) I tagged the page with some very gentle tags suggesting the page needs alot of work. The author then deleted the tags and proceeded to do no more work on the page. I believe it is probably a great candidate for speedy but I wanted him to see the consensus of other editors. Either way the article is pretty poor and should be removed one way or another.Golgofrinchian (talk) 14:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you are quite right to err on the side of caution. I could have deleted it immediately, but like you I want the author to understand we don't tolerate spam, so I've left it up to another admin to delete. As far as I can see you never fully completed the AfD process anyway. You certainly did the right thing by tagging it, and don't hesitate to ask me if you're not sure what tags to use.--Kudpung (talk) 14:25, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! Yea I am a new Huggle user and I try to be as gentle as I can. I thought I did the AfD correctly. Please feel free to fix it so I can see what I did wrong. I really do want to learn and I usually emulate what I have seen other users do. Thanks again Golgofrinchian (talk) 14:28, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I can't use Huggle because it doesn't work on Mac. I guess it's OK for vandal fighting, but for New Page Patrol I think Twinkle is better and safer - there are so many other tasks that have to be done to new pages, and Twinkle does it all except perhaps for adding stub templates. It does the whole process for making AfD - if it doesn't, check out the Twinkle page or the Village Pump (tech), for possible bug reports. --Kudpung (talk) 14:54, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Imsogb

I shall come back with more relevant and solid stuff. Thanks a lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sp651 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

CSD question

Hello Kudpung. I thought I would take you up on your offer for advice regarding CSD criteria. A question: I've seen a number of "articles" that are basically a person's résumé. Here is one recent example. What CSD criteria, if any, would you suggest be applied to such pages? A7? G11? I notice the other patrollers have generally not been tagging these for speedy deletion, so I thought I would solicit your opinion. Thanks, 28bytes (talk) 19:23, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

We should add an uncatagorized CSD criteria for all those sticky ones. That's how some of the iffy articles make it through, they don't fall under and CSD category..but they really shouldn't be there. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 20:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I think that would be a very dangerous path to tread. The key strength of CSD is that it is very strictly only for certain categories that have been decided in advance by the community as being uncontroversial. If we should extend that to include "or any other reason you please" we'll have all kinds of things that people (and admins) think should be speedy deleted but which would not be uncontroversial. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:49, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I completely understand that -- and what I said had a hint of saracasim (though not able to be picked up via text). It's just frustrating when you know it shouldn't be there, but can't decide why. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 23:14, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah :-) And yes, I do know the frustration when you see some complete b....... that just doesn't fit a speedy category -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 23:34, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I thoroughly agree that it's frustrating that we do not have CSD criteria to cover every case and that utter bs sometimes has to fester for seven days while the community decides on its fate. Problem is, while Wikipedia has a largely inclusionist philosophy, it's actually run by what appears to be a slight majority of deletionists. I'm not in either camp, but I do find it an affront to my intelligence to be expected to copyedit and find refs for a page that was posted by an SPA for purely promotional purposes.

As for Alex Chu Executive Creative Director, the answer (for me at l east) is clear: {{Db-multiple|G11|A7}} (person/org + advertising) plus a {{uw-auto}} (Don't warite about yourself) tag for good measure; there's no doubt whatsoever that posting a CV is bltant promotion. All tags serve two distinct purposes: they alert regular editors and admins that an article needs attention, and they inform creators and 'non regular' editors what they are doing wrong or what needs improving. It is important that new page patrollers begin to understand that there is a lot more than just looking at a page and slapping a tag on it in fifteen seconds. It generally takes five minutes to check the edit history to locate the author, check the creator's history for previous warnings and vandalism to other pages, incorrectly created pages, and sockpuppetry, and stub tags added and the project banner added to the talk page. I'm gradually loosing my patience with the Hugglers who think they can accurately patrol pages at a rate of six a minute. Kudpung (talk) 03:05, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Kudpung; that's useful information. 28bytes (talk) 03:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Kudpung, it looks like you notified the page's creator about tagging it for deletion; however, I don't see your name in the page's edit history (it's never been tagged for deletion). Am I missing something here? Airplaneman ✈ 03:15, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

What happened was that this creator had also created another unusual article the same day, that was rather unconnected with his CV. I started hunting around for possible sockpupetry and then the Wikipedia server went off line and I was called away to RL and left the intervention unfinished. Kudpung (talk) 03:31, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I misread your tag. Since Alex Chu Creative Director and Alex Chu Executive Creative Director are identical, and CSD reasoning seems obvious, I have deleted the latter page using the same reason as the one for its sister page. A source search also doesn't bring anything substantial so A7 could have applied as well. Airplaneman ✈ 03:39, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I didn't delete the page immediately myself because I wanted the creator to reflect on the situation. Actually, if you look at the page source you will see that my CSD template is there as I had in fact placed it manually (Twinkle can't do multiple criteria, and maybe should be modified to do so). Perhaps you could take a look and tell me why it was not displaying and why the edit wasn't recorded in the history - perhaps there is a coding element missing, ior perhaps it was the problem with Wikipedia server. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 03:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that while Twinkle usually applies the article tags then notifies the article creator, occasionally sometimes the second task will complete before the first (at least going by the order in my contribution history). Could be that the creator notification completed but the article tagging timed out. 28bytes (talk) 03:57, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

This was definitely a manual opoeration that I made, because there is no (TW) in the es of the user talk page edit summary. I suppose the failure of the CSD template I manually applied on the article could have been due to time out, because the template code is there in the page source. There are lots of bugs with twinkle at the moment, and lots of server problems. Kudpung (talk) 04:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm confused. Was the edit not recorded in the Alex Chu Creative Director or the Alex Chu Executive Creative Director article? For the Alex Chu Creative Director article, I can see your edit in the history. For the Alex Chu Executive Creative Director article, I neither see your edit nor any CSD template code in the history of the article. Maybe your session conveniently timed out when the server went offline? (I wrote this reply without seeing your reply directly above this, which basically says what I said :D). There are indeed many TW bugs and server problems in general. I've switched back to monobook for the time being because so many of my scripts were breaking for no apparent reason in Vector (they work fine in monobook). Airplaneman ✈ 04:13, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, let's not worry too much about Alex Chu now, what's been done has been done until he pops up again. I have always used Monobook - I've experimented with Vector, and like you, many of my js scripts just don't work in it. I'll never understand why it was chosen as the default skin. It even looks horrible.Kudpung (talk) 04:31, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I am a terrible mentoree.

Kudpung, I am so sorry for being absolutely non-responsive during our talks and talkbacks. I am a terrible communicator and really need to step up and get in better touch with the wiki community. I would explain why I have been so absent on wiki, and online all together, but I don't feel comfortable discussing certain things on talk pages. Do you have an email address where I can explain things more clearly? I'm trying to get in touch with my professor and discuss these things with her and figure out what is expected of me and what I can reasonably do. Once I get your email address this will be less cryptic, I'm sorry for any stress or confusion I've caused and I really do appreciate the help you've already provided me. Hope to hear from you soon, Ohheyheidi (talk) 18:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

No worries; Just click on the 'user' tab and you will see the 'email this user' link. You are most welcome to send me an email through the Wikipedia email system. Anonyity is guaranteed. Looking forward to hearing from you - don't be afraid to discuss anything you like with me. --Kudpung (talk) 01:04, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: User:Pkavinda123

Yeah I blocked based on the user's edits, unaware of any socking issue, but was made aware of the socking by MuZemike within minutes of my blocking. Feel free to tweak my block, as always, if you believe it's needed by the specific of the case. Thanks again for letting me know. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 19:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Not necessary, it was only an FYI - blocked is blocked - that's the main thing. --Kudpung (talk) 01:05, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

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Task force

Pursuing the task force idea ... would you be interested in participating, and if so, would it be possible for you to round up some people who share your views and keep in touch with them as the task force makes recommendations? - Dank (push to talk) 21:08, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I've spent the last couple of days parsing all the relevant threads in the talk archives over the last 12 months, to separate them from the background noises, and to identify the people who need to be rounded up. I can only do this manually - should be finished today. --Kudpung (talk) 01:57, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Fantastic. - Dank (push to talk) 02:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll mail you the results when they are ready - you'll probably wish to suggest some changes. --Kudpung (talk) 02:17, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Per your request to stay notified of current developments, see Eureka! We're all morons. - Dank (push to talk) 21:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I read it almost as soon as you had posted it. I fear a lot of it will fall on deaf ears. I've said before that WT:Talk is little more than a virtual pub, and people are already discussing the things that really ought to be treated seriously at select committee level. It'll continue like this for a few more days, with perhaps a bit more discussion over Penguin's RfA, then there will be a week-long hiatus on the page like there had been before the Strat RfA. Finally, it will get archived until until the perennial sessions start all over again. Time to get the show on the road. I count about 12 people who are interested, but even they are not all sure if they can dedicate the time (or want to). --Kudpung (talk) 04:21, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Worcestershire sauce

Why on earth do we need a pronunciation guide for the word "sauce"? I'm familiar with the use of prounciation notes, and normally only unfamiliar words are included in the pronunciation note. Surely nobody needs it explained how to pronounce "sauce"? 109.154.68.162 (talk) 17:46, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

You might be familiar with the pronunciation used in your particular language zone, and not need a guide. A vast number of visitors to the Wikipedia are high level English language users but not native speakers. In the case of Worcestershire sauce, alone the AE/BE difference already makes it sound an entirely different word in each regional variation. We cannot remove established features from the encyclopedia just because one reader out of many millions does not like them. You will garner broader response to enquiries of this kind if you take up the issues either on the article talk page, or at WP:EAR. --Kudpung (talk) 18:54, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Again Vandalism on my user page Help me please

Dear Brother Kudpung,

I am very disappointed due to this act of vandalism on my user page, after the help of User:JamesBWatsonyour who semi protected my user page I was very happy and satisfied that now I can write and edit Wikipedia articles but few days ago some one vandalized my user page again I want to report this user User:Sajjadhunzai to be deleted as he insulted me by typing given below comments on my main user page due to these comments few people in my social circle insulted me I was never encourage to write for Wikipedia but still i keep writing for Wiki but these comments honestly made me grief, I am too sad honestly therefore I would like to request with you to BLOCK this user because if he can leave these comments on my main user page he can do this with everyone and please Full protect my page please so I and Admins only can edit my user page because I love this place and I am Wikipedia addicted now he insulted and disrespect me with given below comments which he wrote on my user name kindly tell me IS it good?

below is the story of RETARDED PERSON, please join me in saying a BIG LOL :)))

THIS GUY NEEDS SOME SERIOUS HELP, HIS ENGLISH IS TOO HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND, BUT GOOD SCRIPT TO MAKE ME LAUGH AFTER WORK

I will be very helpful to you if you help me to protect my own page which is my property and honestly help me in this major concern because it’s not only my insult but also insult of all wikipedians.

Yours Truly,

Wikipedian --Faizanalivarya (talk) 03:02, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay in replying. If you a re still experiencing problems, please either ask James again, or post an official request through Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. --Kudpung (talk) 13:28, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Kudpung for alerting me to this. Actually, I received a copy of the same message, and responded to it, but there's no harm in telling me anyway, to make sure. (While I'm here, I will also mention the message below from user Swarm. I can fully see why you say it means more to you than any other compliment you have ever received. It's a sort of prodigal son situation: the one who was against you and has come to support you is worth more than ones who never left you. If even an opposer now says you are doing a good job then you really must be doing OK. It also goes some way towards confirming the faith I and other supporters had in you all along.) JamesBWatson (talk) 21:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Admin's Barnstar

		The Admin's Barnstar
		I opposed your RfA. Suffice it to say you proved me completely wrong. Thanks for being a great admin. Swarm X 19:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

You're free to replace the message with:

I opposed your RfA for some pile-on bullshit reason and in hindsight I was completely wrong. Thanks for being a great admin. Swarm ^X 19:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Take your pick. Best regards, Swarm ^X 19:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

That is an extraodinarily magnanimous statement Swarm, and means more to me than any other compliment I have ever received for my work on Wikipedia. I don't know how to thank you enough for it. BTW: I already have you shortlisted for collaboration on an upcoming project concerning RfA - talk to you later. --Kudpung (talk) 00:35, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

WP UK Education idea

Hi you have done a lot of stuff relating to education in the UK I was wondering what you thought of a Sub project About UK Education as there are many articles which need creating/updating and ones that are not covered by existing projects. If you think it's a good idea write back to me and we can discus it Mark999 21:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. A good suggestion. However, this has been discussed recently already and it was found that because there is so little involvement from the over 300 members of the school project, it would be better to leave things as they are. A majority of the four or five genuinely active members on the project are in fact from the UK, along with also one very active user from the UK who is not listed as a project member. Your input on UK schools is nevertheless highly appreciated, and don't hesitate to post questions on either the project talk page, or directly on mine, or on user talk:CT Cooper's talk page. --Kudpung (talk) 00:25, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I think we could make a good go of it, even if we start with a few users, I have noticed a few users that have done work on multiple articles that are not currently members of a project and have contacted them, I would put a lot of work in setting it up and assessing articles and we can get a standard for all articles and try to sort out articles as even despite all are effort it is still a massive task, I've done a lot of work on Bristol articles, creating them making sure there is a list and making sure they all have the correct Infobox, I will try and start it and just work at getting it straight and also trying to work with the other Wikiprojects covering Education. By the way I fixed the signing issue and the end of posts, it is because I had ticked a box in my settings that stopped it linking to my profile! Mark999 (talk) 13:13, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Your enthusiasm is to be congratulated but I'm still not optimistic about getting a UK task force together - those who are already working in this domain, such as Kanguole for example, and myself, are probably already doing as much as they can. Nevertheless you have my support and don't hesitate to ask me for any help or advice. However, I would certainly recommend that you read all the WP:WPSCH pages carefully and single out UK schools listed as needing urgent attention, and closely following the bot report of problem pages and proposed deletions. There may also be some UK schools among the potential GA candidates - I'd certainly lend a hand there too. Kudpung (talk) 14:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Here it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Education_in_the_United_Kingdom I will prove it can work Mark999 (talk) 15:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

"{{User UK Education project}}" Mark999 (talk) 18:49, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Remember that you generally need six members before you move a project proposal to project space. The short cut is not really a shortcut. Can I suggest using WP:UKEDU ? I'll put a link to your project in the newsletter - it might help generate some interest. Kudpung (talk) 23:04, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Interest

This may be of interest to you. If you look at the deleted contribs, you can see the original CSD tag (by Baseball Watcher) and my change to a G10 attack page. I was hesitant to bring this up to BW. Your thoughts? Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 01:25, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Well noted. I come across this sort of thing a lot. It appears that some editors either do not understand the full implications of attack pages, or do not fully read the page to recognise an attack. I've had a look at the deleted page and it was a blatant example of an attack. Do go ahead and mention it in the nicest possible way, if you want, thanking for work on NPP, and referring to WP:NPP, and WP:CSD. You could also check the user's patrol logs for any other glaring errors. --Kudpung (talk) 18:17, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll look over the patrol log, but since I cannot view the deleted contrib's; it will be hard to judge whether the right tag was placed (unless the speedy was declined and the article remains). Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 18:51, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

[1]Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 19:00, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I see your point, but I don't want to make a witch hunt out of reviewing deleted pages. I usually take my leads either by complaints on the user's talk page, or simply by looking at pages that have supposedly been patrolled while I'm doing some NPP myself. You get a feel for pages that might have been wrongly tagged by looking at the speed in which the entry turns from yellow to white, and unusual page names, and then checking to see who tagged them or who patrolled them. --Kudpung (talk) 19:04, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to keep my third eye on Baseball Watcher to see what happens. If something like that happens again -- I'll be sure to drop him/her another note. I have WP Maintenance tasks piled up all around me that I have to get around to as well. I really don't have a third eye, it's just a metaphorTofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 19:11, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

RfA reform

I will try to consider this seriously and submit my thoughts as soon as I have time, but that is unlikely to be for less than about 36 hours at least, and could be significantly longer. JamesBWatson (talk) 22:12, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks James. There are a couple of other user sub pages that are collecting thoughts too. At the moment, I'm collecting people for the work group and it would be great to have you along. It's not a question of having the same ideas as mine, but being able to reach a consensus on the different points without all the background noise. If you can think of anyone whom you would like to suggest for the work group, don't hesitate to let them know. --Kudpung (talk) 22:18, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

FYI

[2]. I wonder if this user even read what I wrote the first time...I doubt it. I've written to him/her before -- but he/she doesn't respond to constructive criticism, that frustrates me. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 22:51, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I've left another message on his tp this morning. There's no point in patrolling if he can't get it right. If he refuses to improve we'll have to ask him to stop patrolling, and write some content instead. Too many people think 'speedy deletion' means tagging articles as fast as possible. Kudpung (talk) 00:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

He must really like you more....Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 01:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

With the best will in the world, sooner or later patience wears thin, and it's back to formal language. If he gets it wrong again lte me know.--Kudpung (talk) 01:24, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Will do, I don't want to suck up any more of your time. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 01:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

That last IP edit was me...for some reason it always logs me out on my phone. Sorry. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 02:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry about sucking up my time - that's what I'm here for. I'm just hoping to delegate some of the stuff to people who have a head on their shoulders and who will be admins themselves one of the days ;) Kudpung (talk) 02:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

task force? what task force?

Hey. may I encourage you to alter your wikilink at Jimbo's talk, where you said, "If all goes well, we'll soon have a task force". The term "task force" links to a Wikipedia article about Select committees. Logically that may be fine, but in terms of helping people find where the TF is, it isn't helpful..... just alter the linky, wouldja? Tks. • Ling.Nut (talk) 02:30, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

The task force is here. It's not a closed shop - not yet anyway. --Kudpung (talk) 02:38, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Essay

After reading your own essay, I wrote my own, which may be helpful for Bureaucrats in the current process and your process.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: RfA

Hi Kudpung, sorry I'm so late getting back to you. I'm not really a good candidate for a task force on this as I've only ever !voted in an RfA once [3], and have read a few others in the past, always with my eyes popping at the bizarre discourse there. Plus I'll be away April 1-14. But let me know if/when it goes to a public discussion. Voceditenore (talk) 10:28, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Req

Can you please delete Midway International Airport (please delete the REDIRECT PAGE, not the article it redirects to), I am going to move the article there because that is the correct airport name. Someone moved it to Chicago Midway International Airport in 2007, and it never got reversed. It won't let me move it unless the page is deleted. Thanks -- Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 12:20, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Let me first bring up a discussion on the TP, and I will get back to you. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 12:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

WT:RFA

I'm not sure whether you were addressing me in particular, but I just thought I'd clarify here that I don't necessarily feel that we should lower the bar, but rather split the administrative maintenance role from the controversial judgment role. Again, I'm not sure whether you were addressing me (if you weren't, than I apologize). Thanks, Tyrol5 [Talk] 16:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Not really you in particular. It was a weak attempt to keep the discussion on track. But that's impossible - WT:RfA is a virtual pub, people stand around and talk till it's time to go home, but there's never any initiative to get anything really done. See how the talk page has developed today for example. Nevertheless, I get the feeling something is going to happen soon, but it won't be at WT:RfA, andit probably won't be on the lines of unbundling the admin tasks. Anyone who has recently been through that shite knows what's at stake and why dozens of good, experienced editors are refusing to go through that process. Generally the people who should pass will pass, and those who shouldn't be admins will fail. The majority of those who do not succeed should have been dissuaded from wasting everyone's time, by being pointed more firmly at the recommendations for running for office. There are some pretty naïve nominators around too. For those who should and do succeed, there should be no need to put them through such a trial by fire. --Kudpung (talk) 16:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I have noticed the general trend of ongoing discussion at WT:RFA to die off without any action taken on the discussed issue, and that's precisely why I typically do not post their often. Tyrol5 [Talk] 16:54, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Re Rfa

Did you see my email? I'm on the road at the moment, with NCAA basketball and work temporarily taking higher priorities at the moment. I will try to look at your draft later in the week, but I won't be able to do it justice until next week at least. SPhilbrickT 00:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Gosh, yes. I'm sorry, I had completely forgotten that I had already contacted you. My draft is not so important - it's not an intention to get my own ideas approved. It's just a stimulus. Much more important is that you consider signing on for the task force. I think you'd be a most valuable collaborator. --Kudpung (talk) 00:23, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

NP. I just worried that it hadn't gone through. I will sign up, will try to do more in next couple days.--SPhilbrickT 00:27, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry about going through the draft just yet, but do get your name on the list before we close it off. I'm sure you input later will be extremely important. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Paging Mr Kudpung

Knowing how passionate you are abut schools, you might want to keep an eye on Chapel-en-le-Frith High School where I just came across a bit of WP:OWN behaviour. If it turns into an edit war, perhaps you could step in and mediate. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 16:25, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll take a look and put it on my watchlist. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, so your place is named after bees (ผึ้ง) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Chai kap! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I had no idea what กุด means. Best I can find is "verb: cut off; behead; shorten", and "adj: stubby; cut off; severed; amputated" - Do you live in a village of bee mutilators? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:17, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

There are a lot of place names round here that have the prefix 'กุด', but I don't know in what context. I'll have to ask the missis. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:23, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

re: Rentschler farm

hi. how does tagging an article with unreferenced and uncategorized suggest the article wont "meet our criteria for inclusion"? - The Elves Of Dunsimore (talk) 04:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

If you had checked for references per the suggestions at WP:NPP, as I did, you will see that there are some references that that might assert notability. Of course, if in an hour or two the creator has still done nothing you could also leave a message on their talk page. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

which doesnt answer my question. which was, how does tagging an article with unreferenced and uncategorized suggest the article wont "meet our criteria for inclusion"? are they not in fact good indicators on how to improve the article so that it does "meet our criteria for inclusion"? - The Elves Of Dunsimore (talk) 04:45, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It answers your question, but perhaps indirectly, because the article had already indicated to you that it needed referencing. The recommended effort at page patrolling is to carry out some first checks. There is currently a drive on to improve new page patrolling - you can help. If anything in the recent updates to WP:NPP are not clear, do feel free to make suggestions for improvement on its talk page. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:52, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

to quote [[WP:NPP] ... "if the article is unreferenced or poorly referenced, you may be able to improve the article by adding better references. Otherwise, add appropriate tag(s) to the top of the article". i couldnt "improve the article by adding better references" because there wasnt sufficient context to identify the subject of the article, it was just the name of a farm, so i added the appropriate tags. - The Elves Of Dunsimore (talk) 05:07, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I know what WP:NPP says - I helped write some of it;) [4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12] - of course, you'll need to sort out what are WP:RS (blogs are obviously not admissible), but it's a start. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

yes, but as i said, there was insufficient context to identify the subject and thus no way to determine if the page created was referring to the same farm you have provided links for, thus i tagged it with unreferenced. - The Elves Of Dunsimore (talk) 05:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I found there was significant context based on the same information you saw in the article, and was able to come up with some sources very quickly - there is no other Rentschler farm listed. Please consider the other tasks that go hand-in-hand with new page patrolling - we need a strong NPP team, and don't hesitate to ask me for help if you get stuck on anything. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:11, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

and how did you determine there was sufficient context? it was just the name of the farm, it didnt have the word museum, theres no way i or you could know for sure, and thats why i tagged it asking for references. btw, it just got deleted with (A1: Not enough context to identify article's subject) so it looks like at least two other people also think it didnt have enough context. - The Elves Of Dunsimore (talk) 07:33, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

That's right, deleted with a perfectly accurate CSD rationale - and I would have deleted it it myself after that lapse of time without improvement. Neither of us can know at the time of patrolling if a short and/or poorly referenced article is going to be the work of a lazy creator. Nevertheless, our current philosophy, whether we like it or not, is to AGF and at least try and do some of the work for them. However, don't get me wrong - I'm not an inclusionist per se. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:33, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: RfA

Hello. You have a new message at GorillaWarfare's talk page.

RfA taskforce

Hi Kudpung, I think your task force is a great idea to stop conversations going round in circles and actually get something done. If you haven't already, will you advertise it at the village pump etc? Most people don't read RfA talk: I think if we make an effort to make the task force more representative of the whole community we'll get wider perspectives on the problem, and find it easier to get community consensus for whatever the eventual recommendations are. --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 14:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussions on RfA reform have been tried everywhere in the past, with the same result - too many cooks, too much background noise, too many unrealistic suggestions, side-tracking, incivility, you name it. This time we're trying to do something new. I'm hoping that a compact task force will be able to come up with some concrete suggestions for reform that can then be put to village pump for fine tuning and consensus. There is nothing official yet about what we have started on my page, it's just really an effort to get a serious task force together of people who can work towards this goal without too much background noise. Do feel free to add some suggestions for reform to the talk page, but we're not yet at the stage for heavy discussion on them, join the task force list too if you would like to be part of it, there's room for a few more. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite, though I'm relatively new so I'm not sure I have that many ideas on RfA to add. I agree that compact in number is good, I just fear compact in range would be bad. You perhaps risk being seen as an exclusive group of 'regulars', and missing the wikipedians who might have good ideas on reform, but avoid the whole area of RfA because they dislike it's current form. Though I suppose if dozens of people put their names down you'd then have the problem of too little focus.--Physics is all gnomes (talk) 16:08, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The task force that has formed is surprisingly eclectic. admins, crats, editors, M-F, ages -16 to 60+, longterm users, and relative newcomers. The common denominator is that they all have clue, and the most important thing is that they should be able to work together without friction. Though their ideas for change may diverge they should be able to reach consensus among themselves for a plan or plans of reform to offer to the community who can then accept them or reject them. Every thinkable solution has been discussed ad nauseam already - that is the experience the group can draw on. There will always be people outside the group who will complain about 'cabal', or as one commentator stated in another place: pushing the wheelbarrow of power. I think all admins will agree that being an admin is no big deal and that very few of them wanted the tools in order to wield power. The big deal is getting through that broken process to get the tools. Somebody has to have some tools. Admittedly we have some bad admins, but fortunately they are very few and between, 'tis true thought that some, even in the highest positions of authority, have been forced to leave in disgrace. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:28, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough. Sounds like you've thought it all though. :) --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 11:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Purplebackpack89

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

- Kingpin¹³ (talk) 08:55, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

No problem, was just making my bot a little upset ;), all the best, - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 09:05, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Hey, that's a damned good bot :) There are more bots than admins! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC)