Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 July 18

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July 18

Names' Names

Good Afternoon, I would be most grateful for your help in regard to a reference that is quoted in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-onym.

The last paragraph of the inntroductory section of the article reads:

According to a 1988 study[1] of words ending in -onym, there are four discernible classes of -onym words: (1) historic, classic, or, for want of better terms, naturally occurring or common words; (2) scientific terminology, occurring in particular in linguistics, onomastics, etc.; (3) language games; and (4) nonce words. Older terms are known to gain new, sometimes contradictory, meanings (e.g., eponym and cryptonym). In many cases, two or more words describe the same phenomenon, but no precedence is discernable (e.g., necronym and penthonym). New words are sometimes created, the meaning of which duplicating existing terms. On occasion, new words are formed with little regard to historical principles.

and the reference [1] refers to Scheetz, Names' Names, p. 1.

The full title of that article is given later under 'References' and is

Names' Names: A Descriptive and Prescriptive Onymicon. (“What’s In a Name?” Chapbook Series; 2.) Sioux City, Ia.: Schütz Verlag, August 1988.

So far so good _but_ my researches so far have revealed that that article was some 20 pages in length and was issued by the author in a _very_ limited edition of just 50 copies and so far I have not been able to find a single one (:

However, it is clear that the author of the paragraph quoted above _must_ have had some form of access to Scheetz' publication.

Since I really would like to be able to read the entire publication I wondered if you could possibly contact the author and ask her/him to contact me

I appreciate that this is an unusual request and it is not made lightly and I hope that you will feel able to help

Many thanks Yours Michael Message 81.86.115.192 (talk) 10:44, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the history of that page, the information was added by User:PlaysInPeoria in this edit [1]. You would probably need to ask that editor (PlaysInPeoria). It looks like they're still occasionally active, and including a link to their name here in this comment should mean they receive a notification to join this conversation. 86.164.27.197 (talk) 13:19, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

The other place to ask is at the resource exchange. --ColinFine (talk) 15:45, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

off of

Hello. What does it mean to say "I'm living off of grass", it's from the song Something in the Way. -- 2.181.80.201 (talk) 15:44, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

"Off of" is normal in some dialects of English where other dialects (and Standard Englishes) use "off" or "from". So "living off of" means the same as "living off". What "grass" means in this song I couldn't say without context. Quite likely cannabis, but it may be something else. --ColinFine (talk) 15:48, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

So, taken literally, it would mean "I derive all my nutritional needs from grass". Unless the singer happens to be a ruminant, I find this unlikely, so it probably means "I smoke a large quantity of cannabis", as noted above. StuRat (talk) 17:14, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Just to say that the lyrics were written by Kurt Cobain who comes from Aberdeen, Washington, so "off of" must have some colloquial use in the USA too. Looking at the lyrics on Google, it talks about the subject living under a bridge and not having the heart to kill the animals that he traps, so it's possible that it means that he lives in such straightened circumstances that he's reduced to eating grass for sustenance (I know humans can't digest grass, but Cobain may not have done). Besides that, looking for sense in popular music lyrics is often a fruitless pursuit. 17:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

It's OK to eat fish, because they're not made of cellulose. And "they don't have any feelings." InedibleHulk (talk) 18:41, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

But, as the song article says, if Cobain was literally under the bridge, he'd have been swept away by the Wishkah River. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:46, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Probably not what Kurt meant, but I'll note that contrary to some comments above, millions of people derive their sustenance primarily from grass grass. Another thing to consider is that "I went off of [stuff]" can mean "I stopped using [stuff]]" in some contexts. But in my experience "living off of" would mean something like "sustaining myself by," e.g. "living off of my inheritance." does not mean that the speaker eats her inheritance, but that it provides a means for living.

As for people being so hungry that they eat non-nutritive turf grasses, there are many reports of such in the media [2], [3]. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:04, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

From my experience, having weed for yourself at night is harder when you're homeless. Friends will share while you're couch-surfing, but generally won't follow you under the bridge (where he may indeed have slept a few times). When you're sober, alone and getting dripped on, depression and introspection follow, and if you're a songwriter, something like "Something in the Way" may occur.

Also keep in mind, cats eat grass to purge their systems. Could be that "living off of grass" means "getting off of something else". Something that was in the way, perhaps. Cats seem a common animal to trap and befriend in Aberdeen, and may have given him the fishing idea, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:27, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

The recent release of the film Jersey Boys has re-ignited discussion over the original title of Can't Take My Eyes Off (Of) You. HiLo48 (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Franki Valli sang it without the "of". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:12, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

• Just to remind everyone, while the narrow question of what the "off of" means, we've all likely over analyzed what the deeper meaning of the song is. Cobain wrote (like many writers) for many different reasons, and "telling a literal autobiographical story which was entirely plausible and likely could happen" is but one possibility, and is likely not even the meaning behind this one song. Cobain wrote many songs based on the meter, rhythm, and sounds of the words themselves rather than having any inherent meaning; his songs could also have emotional or allegorical meaning. After scanning some google searches on meanings of this song, I'm led to think that Charles R. Cross's biography of Cobain titled Heavier Than Heaven may have some insight as to Cobain's songwriting process and the meaning of this song in particular. Several websites I have found say as much. I've not read it, but if someone wants to know what Cobain really meant behind his words, it would be a good way to start. --Jayron32 15:45, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I've heard him say about as much about "meaning" in interviews. If "nothing on the top but a bucket and a mop, and an illustrated book about birds" goes any deeper than syllables, I'd be shocked. But this one has always seemed uniquely straightforward. Of course, that may just be my own paleomammalian complex reacting to the sound itself. The esteemed psychologist Alfred M. Yankovic may have clearly explained the unexplainable in "Smells Like Nirvana". Bargling noodle zous (or nawdle zouss) does beat raising cattle. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:58, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Hard on

What is the origin and etymology of this word/phrase?--86.171.5.136 (talk) 20:07, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

As in erections or "you're being too hard on him". StuRat (talk) 20:36, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

First known use for a boner is 1888. I imagine it's simply because it gets "hard on" you. Like it gets "wide on" the others. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:39, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

There is a shop in Japan which uses the opposite. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 20:42, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Heh...junk. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:44, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

And there's this little shop in Redmond, which also qualifies as the opposite to "hard-on". They bought Nokia; wonder if they're gonna buy Pfizer too. - ¡Ouch! (^{hurt me} / _{more pain}) 05:51, 21 July 2014 (UTC)