Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 October 24

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October 24

Fall 2015

With a fall 2015 freshman acceptance rate of 6%. Shouldn't the F in Fall be capitalized since it is part of the term 'Fall 2015'? Thanks. --regentspark (comment) 14:29, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

It's a matter of style. Some people (not so many now) view the names of the seasons as proper names and always capitalize them; some view constructs like "fall 2015" as proper names and would capitalize "fall" for that reason; and some view them as simple descriptive expressions and don't capitalize. Wikipedia style is that they aren't capitalized. --69.159.61.230 (talk) 18:19, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

It should be autumn anyway, as that is understood far more widely than fall. 86.28.195.109 (talk) 18:23, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Depends where you are. Checkout the University of Minnesota calendar for this year.[1] The word "fall" appears over 30 times. The word "autumn", 0. And "Fall" is capitalized in the calendar only in the dropdown and when it begins a sentence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:31, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I think the IP meant that Fall is a US and perhaps Canadian term and is not used anywhere else in the English speaking world. Sort of a World famous in New Zealand situation, except that in this case you're saying that it's the US where Fall is world famous. Akld guy (talk) 21:52, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I think you'll find that the US is a significant portion of the English-speaking world. And etymologically, spring and fall are nice counterpoints. If you're going to say "autumn" instead of "fall", you should say something like "verna" instead of "spring". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:14, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

• Given it refers to a specific school-term it should be capitalized, just as one would say he went south, but The South lost the American Civil War. μηδείς (talk) 22:04, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

See my first response. --69.159.61.230 (talk) 04:32, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

I'll admit I didn't read your comment all the way to the end, since you started with "it's a matter of style". But we agree on the rationalization between why it's done. When I was in elementary school, the seasons, days, months and cardinal directions were always capitalized in any context. I have since dropped that with directions and seasons except under the circumstances noted above. μηδείς (talk) 00:50, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Usage of "public viewing" in English

In German, the term "Public Viewing" is used for public live broadcastingscreening of sport events. In German newspaper columns and blogs, for years there has been squabble going on how this expression is actually used in English or not, and whether it's a pseudo-Anglicism. Here in the English Wikipedia, Public viewing is a redirect to Lying in repose, and this has been used as source in the debate. What do native English speakers usually think of when the term is used? Lying in repose, a public broadcast, an open house day, having a look in declassified papers...? Is the redirect appropriate? --KnightMove (talk) 20:29, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm just one person, but as a Midwestern American, the first thing that "public viewing" brought to my mind was the "lying in repose" sense. In my neck of the woods Viewing (funeral) is a familiar use of the term. Deor (talk) 21:19, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

In Britain the term usually refers to the period before an auction when the items can be viewed by potential bidders. A public viewing area is a place set aside for the public to observe some activity: there will often be one at an airport where enthusiasts can watch the planes. Sport events which have to be available to everyone are known as "free to view" and the process of allowing the public to observe the body of someone who has died tends to be called a "lying in state" (even though that should only refer to an official event for someone of public importance). Wymspen (talk) 21:26, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I have no problem with using the term to describe a public live broadcast of some event or other. I can't see what else you might call it. --Viennese Waltz 07:30, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

That's interesting because I would never have thought that you could use the expression to mean a "live broadcast" if you hadn't told me here. It's certainly not so used in my (northern) English. To me a "viewing" essentially involves the "viewer" going to a specified place to "view". Dbfirs 07:43, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

But that's what we're talking about, a group of people (viewers) going to a park or square or other public place, to sit in front of a large screen and view the event. --Viennese Waltz 08:27, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I see. That's a public screening (and not a broadcast), though I suppose it is also a public viewing in a sense. Dbfirs 08:32, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Note that viewing a corpse is not part of British culture, we generally expect the lid to be firmly nailed-down beforehand. Alansplodge (talk) 09:12, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Good shout. I actually think "public screening" is preferable to "public viewing". --Viennese Waltz 09:20, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

The term "big screen" is widely used in the UK for sports events: see World Cup Big Screens: where you can watch the football games and Rio 2016: Here are the best London big screens to watch team GB go for gold. Alansplodge (talk) 09:24, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

As a native British-English speaker, I most associate the phrase "public viewing" with an exhibition of art mostly not on display, like before an auction or of art in a private collection like the government's. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear the phrase used for something like putting a screen up in a public square to show a sports match. Blythwood (talk) 12:24, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

It depends what you mean by "British culture". At Ghanaian funerals in Britain the mourners file past the open coffin at the beginning of the service and are given pieces of material which has been torn into strips. They're as British as any other citizen. 86.128.234.239 (talk) 15:07, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

... and there are parts of traditional UK where it is not unusual for the coffin to be left open for public viewing, but the practice is rapidly dying out. Dbfirs 16:05, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In Russian Orthodox funerals (and possibly other orthodox churches), not only is the coffin open, but the congregation files past and each person bends over and kisses the body. I'd be surprised if this practice doesn't apply to Orthodox Britons. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:18, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

See Funeral practices: British customs which suggests that not viewing corpses is a fairly recent development here. Of course, Ghanaians in the UK may wish to follow Ghanaian customs and so on, but I have never been invited to view a corpse and hope I never shall. Alansplodge (talk) 10:57, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

The point 86.* was making was to call you out on your questionable use of the term "British culture". Britain is a multicultural society and "Ghanaian customs" are as much a part of British culture as Morris dancing. --Viennese Waltz 11:13, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

I take your point in a way, but how would you describe the customs of people of "white British" (per the census) descent without entering a PC minefield? I'd be the last to suggest that British people of Ghanaian descent shouldn't feel free to follow Ghanaian customs, but at least one strand of our multi-cultures is the one I belong to. Alansplodge (talk) 14:04, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

To be honest I probably wouldn't generalize about it at all, I would have kept it as a comment about your own experience ("viewing a corpse is not part of my culture, I generally expect the lid to be firmly nailed-down beforehand"). --Viennese Waltz 14:46, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps we'll leave it there. Alansplodge (talk) 16:15, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Canadian here. I would never use "public viewing" in the context of a sporting event. Without any context, I would likely assume the "lying in repose" meaning, but an art gallery or similar showing that was open to the public (especially in contrast to an earlier "private viewing") would also be sensible. Matt Deres (talk) 13:04, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

The analogy of testicles to balls, or to other objects, in various languages.

In English, the most common analogy of testicles is to balls. In Hebrew, the most common analogy of testicles is to eggs. What is the analogy (if any) of the testicles, in other languages? 185.3.147.184 (talk) 23:28, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

In Russian it's yaichki, "little eggs". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:50, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Spanish huevo (egg). Navajo ayęęzhii (egg). Khmer ពង (pɔɔŋ, egg). —Stephen (talk) 00:16, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

I thought Spanish used cojones (KAH-HONE-EASE). StuRat (talk) 00:21, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

And English has multiple slang words for testicles too...--Jayron32 00:33, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Spanish does also have cojones, but that's the entire set: scrotum, balls, and all, from Latin cōleus ‎(sack). As a figure of speech, a cojón means a testicle. —Stephen (talk) 00:40, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

The Russian translation of the Bible uses yatra, an obscure word for "viscera", but most likely chosen by association with yadra, meaning "cores" or "cannonballs". KJV used "stones" in the same passages. --90.221.197.129 (talk) 07:40, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In German Eier, (eggs).
Sleigh (talk) 03:43, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In Persian, it's eggs. Omidinist (talk) 04:17, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Farsi?
Sleigh (talk) 04:20, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Farsi. And, I add, Arabic synonym of eggs is used to seem more polite. Omidinist (talk) 06:16, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In French paire de couilles, (pair of balls).
Sleigh (talk) 04:21, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

It's correct, but we also use "noix" (walnuts), wich may be closer to the answers expected by OP. Kainkenny (talk) 14:38, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

But couille doesn't literally translate as "ball", according to Wiktionary it is derived from the Laitn coleus meaning "bag". Alansplodge (talk) 10:02, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

The closest to the English "balls" in French is "les boules" as in "j'ai les boules". The origin of "j'ai les boules" is lost. It originally consisted of mimicking with both hands under one's head, that one's balls were so annoyed (by the situation), that they were growing up to one's head. It was the equivalent of the English "it sucks". It could be shortened into "les boules!" just like "it sucks" sometimes is shortened into "sucks!". There are dozens of slang words for "balls" in French. Besides "les couilles", the most common is probably "les burnes". "Les couilles" is very often used for "courage" just like in English "to have the balls to do something". "Tu me casses les couilles" or "ça me casse les couilles", (= "you suck" or "it sucks") is more and more often used also by girls nowadays. Akseli9 (talk) 20:51, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

In Chinese (Mandarin), "eggs" is also typical. However, this phenomenon seems to demonstrate the cognitive effects of familiarity on listeners' perception of what seems logical or appropriate. To many native English speakers, the use of what would otherwise be an exclusively female-related biological object (e.g., ovum) for a male body part seems incongruous.--208.58.213.72 (talk) 06:27, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

No surprise in Polish; it's jaja, "eggs". The same word also has two metaphorical meanings in Polish slang. One is "courage" (like English "balls"); the other is "funny situation", as in ale jaja!, "how funny!" — Kpalion^(talk) 09:44, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

And the Polish medical term for testicles is jądra, which literally means "kernels". — Kpalion^(talk) 15:39, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In Welsh properly ceilliau but may be peli (balls) ... ouch. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:57, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In Cockney (doubtless a foreign language to some), besides the usual terms, I have heard "conkers". Alansplodge (talk) 10:08, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

More usually in Cockanay, of course, it's "cobblers (awls)". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:31, 25 October 2016 (UTC) (me old china)

Meaning "balls" of course (see rhyming slang). Also "knackers" although I'm not sure why. Alansplodge (talk) 13:11, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Knackers "may be derived from nakers – small mediaeval kettle drums which were typically played in pairs suspended from a belt around the waist." I am also informed by a young neighbour that the current schoolboy slang in England is "nuts" Wymspen (talk) 13:42, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Blimey! We have an article on the very thing called Naqareh. Alansplodge (talk) 14:33, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Chill thy beans, dude. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:48, 25 October 2016 (UTC) p.s. growing up in Wales, if one played "too enthusiastically" on the rugby pitch, one always risked getting a "swift kick in the taters".

Avocado#Etymology SemanticMantis (talk) 17:09, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Of reading Lord of the Flies in school, one of the few details I remember is the use of pills. —Tamfang (talk) 18:08, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

This reminds me of a story...
A cockney's chicken has escaped over the neighbour's fence. Peering into next-door's garden he spots both the chicken and a freshly laid egg. He knocks on his neighbour's door, whereupon a foreign gentleman answers.
The cockney says "Scuse me, but my chicken seems to have laid an egg in your garden." The neighbour replies "Yes, I know. You may have your chicken back, but in my country the person whose garden it is laid in owns the egg."
Momentarily taken aback, the cockney says "Er, but this ain't your country is it sunshine? Round 'ere we have a way of settling disputes such as this. We both kick each other in the plums. Now we're both bound to hit the deck of course. Whoever gets up soonest, gets the egg."
The neighbour says "Oh that sounds fair I suppose." Cockney goes "Right, I'll go first" *WALLOP!* boots him right in the knackers.
The foreign gentleman falls wailing to the floor. After a couple of minutes lying in the foetal position, with tears in his eyes, he slowly stands back up. "Ok then" he says "now my turn..."
The cockney laughs and says "S'alright mate, you can keep the fucking egg!" --Hillbillyholiday ^talk 23:15, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Me no understand the joke. Bus stop (talk) 00:36, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

See, I said Cockney was a foreign language to some. The gist of it is that Cocney proposes to solve the dispute by kicking each others testes ("plums", another expression that I'd forgotten about), the one who recovers fastest wins. However, the Cockney cunningly avoids getting kicked by conceding the contest before it's his turn to be on the receiving end. Alansplodge (talk) 11:02, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

I've 'eard that this joker Billy is a bit of a Plum Duff. He just 'as to be a rebel, don't he. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:14, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Get back to Canterbury ya Berkeley. --Hillbillyholiday ^talk 11:25, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

To explain further, his real goal was to kick his neighbor in the testicles with no repercussions, he didn't really care about the egg. StuRat (talk) 14:54, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

And he felt that the testicles could be found within the scrotum, demonstrating the power of deduction often attributed to the Cockney, a subgroup of the larger British population. Bus stop (talk) 15:19, 27 October 2016 (UTC)