Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Royalty and nobility

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Royalty and nobility. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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For the general policy on the inclusion of individual people in Wikipedia, see WP:BIO.

Articles for deletion

Wittekind, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont

Wittekind, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article subject does not meet GNG and is mostly a genealogical entry. WP:NOTGENEOLOGY . D1551D3N7 (talk) 17:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Royalty and nobility-related deletion discussions. D1551D3N7 (talk) 17:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Bobby Cohn (talk) 17:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Weak keep - this is not just genealogy, but now I've violated Godwin's law. Sorry Mike Godwin. Bearian (talk) 04:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

  That source is mainly about his father who is significantly more notable. Wittekind is only referred to 2 times in it - page 265 and 266. Once to mention Himmler was his godfather and sent him presents. And once to say he succeeded his father as "head of the house". This doesn't seem like it meets the bar for WP:SIGCOV to me. D1551D3N7 (talk) 18:05, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

• I am inclined to weak keep, even if only by fact, that he was Himmler's godson and head of this nobles family. Another reason is (which, strictly speaking, has no impact on the enwiki), that there are articles about him in 12 other wiki projects. I would really like to see this article on our wiki not delited, given these weak arguments.--Noel baran (talk) 18:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

  Being Himmler's child isn't enough for notability so I don't see why being his godson would be either.

  Being the head of a formerly noble family is just genealogy at this point, he is 2 generations removed from the abolition of the monarchy in Germany.

  The point about the other language wikis is irrelevant as you point out (WP:OTHERLANGS) D1551D3N7 (talk) 20:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

  Even if OTHERLANGS was a valid argument, most (all?) of the other language articles on him are just direct machine translations of the en.wp page, that's not evidence of his being independently notable in those projects. JoelleJay (talk) 02:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per User:Noel baran — Cosmic6811 T/C 19:00, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

  )))) Noel baran (talk) 19:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. The notability bar would have to be lowered considerably if being Himmler's godson and head of a now-obscure aristocratic family in these modern times qualifies. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Weak keep per above, there's certainly a few mentions of him, but fairly obscure. Thief-River-Faller (talk) 19:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per above, and in the hope that a German obituary might be published providing more details of his army career and cultural and forestry work. Plus, the house of which he was head once ruled one of Germany's principalities so it was more than just an average aristocratic family. Baldwin de Toeni (talk) 20:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. Notability requires IRS SIGCOV in multiple sources, which has not been demonstrated here. Passing mentions do not count, even in aggregate, and the argument that "being Himmler's godson" or "being head of a defunct noble family" is a claim to notability is in direct contravention of NOTINHERITED. JoelleJay (talk) 01:57, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per above arguments. 66.99.15.163 (talk) 15:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Aside from what's already in the article, there's an additional source from Histioires Royales in France (here). Also, the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany, which he was awarded, is the only federal decoration of Germany and very prestigious. Since there's coverage in reliable sources and a federal-level award, I'm a solid "keep". --16:11, 19 December 2024 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gym Samba (talk • contribs)

  I disagree that the award alone is significant enough to warrant this article. Over 262k people have received an Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany. HistoiresRoyales seems more like a royalist fanblog rather than a reliable news source and would be pretty weak if the article's references are hinged on that. D1551D3N7 (talk) 17:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Histoires Royales is a non-expert blog, it cannot be used as a source. And the award is certainly not enough to meet ANYBIO. JoelleJay (talk) 19:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

@D1551D3N7: Why would they be hinged on that single source rather than the ones already in the article? I pointed out the source I linked is an additional source, not that it's the only source.

As for the award, it meets WP:ANYBIO #1, which says, "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times." There's nothing in the description of that criteria that weighs how often the award it presented. It's well known, and significant, as it's the highest level of honor in Germany.--Gym Samba (talk) 19:49, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

There are many degrees of the order and he received one of the lower degrees. For a similar example, not everyone who is an Officer of the Order of the British Empire is notable enough by virtue of their reward to get a Wikipedia article. 66.99.15.163 (talk) 21:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

If the fact Wittekind received this award is so significant why is the only reference available an article from 2001 in a small regional newspaper? I can't even find out what class of honour it was.

There's an essay (not a policy) here Wikipedia:Notability_(awards_and_honors) that mentions the problems with the interpretation of awards significance for notability. D1551D3N7 (talk) 21:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

• Very weak keep. Notability is borderline re GNG with an obit at local/regional newspaper Waldeckische Landeszeitung with several paragraphs of biographical information and the Hesse government's article on the death of the Prince where Boris Rhein praises him as "a defining character who shaped not only the region, but the entire country" and to a lesser extent: an article about his 80th birthday met Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and one sentence of Prince Wittekind stepping down as chair of the Foundation of the Princely House of Waldeck and Pyrmont. Worst case scenario redirect to Josias,_Hereditary_Prince_of_Waldeck_and_Pyrmont#Family. ミラP@Miraclepine 04:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. ミラP@Miraclepine 04:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

• Weak keep due to the above German-language coverage and meriting a statement from the head of government of a German state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ignatiusjreillythefirst (talk • contribs) 20:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletions

• Hywel ab Owain (via WP:PROD on 2 November 2024)

Deletion reviews

The following royalty and nobility-related Deletion reviews are currently open for discussion: