Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 82

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Metrics woe?

I suspect our metrics are on the blink again; it's not v.credble that Reports bot would find so few bytes to add to the July metrics over the last two days. User:The Earwig has helped on this in the past & I'll escalate in their direction should the ill-looking pattern continue. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:56, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for identifying that, Tagishsimon. Also, User:WP 1.0 bot hasn't been updating the various "women" projects properly (e.g. User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Women writers) since 27 July, for which I created a ticket on Github yesterday. --Rosiestep (talk) 12:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I've noticed similar problems with a number of bots and tools over the past two days. I wonder if some major updating initiative is slowing everything down. There was a similar situation about two weeks ago in connection with all the WikiProject updates. It seemed to right itself with no specific call for action.--Ipigott (talk) 12:56, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, it has righted itself (or, at least, been righted without escalation from us. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't think the statistics are fully fixed. I check my contributions via xtools and the article I wrote on 31 July is not listed. Oronsay (talk) 19:03, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Which article? I'm seeing a 29 July from you, but nothing for the 31st. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:07, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Not about a woman, Australian Academy of Law. Oronsay (talk) 19:09, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I see what you mean - not showing up via xtools after more than 24 hours. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, After 3 or 4 exchanges with folks through Github, the issue seemed to resolve yesterday, August 1st, for which I'm grateful. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:19, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Women in STEM event - 16 August

Hi all, just a quick note to say that the University of Edinburgh Women in STEM student society are hosting an event on Sunday 16 August 1pm-5pm GMT with Dr. Jess Wade. If anyone would like to come join us and/or help add to our worklist of names to edit/create then you're more than welcome. Book here. Many thanks, Stinglehammer (talk) 13:43, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

"Une femme"

For those of you who are fluent in French, I recommend you take a look at the ironic page on the French wiki Wikipédia:Pastiches/Une femme. You'll note all her "achievements" have been reported in the press simply because she is a woman rather than a man. If you don't read French, you'll find all the background you need at ‘A woman’: Wikipedia page records trials and achievements of invisible women from France 24.--Ipigott (talk) 09:17, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

That is such a brilliant page. Wasn't it translated in Wikipedia:Signpost recently? Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 11:20, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Interesting one, On side note, If one wants to have interesting eye opener here on en Wikipedia itself, I suggest to collect status of women mentions from each of countries article. For example en-Wikipedia article France#Society rightfully brags ...France is one of the world leaders of gender equality in the workplace... Same time fails to mention issues, may be intimate Partner Violence is there in France too.USA#Family structure takes note mainly on women fertility and abortion rates talks of women rights issues to the least. Usually countries names get highest view hit ratio and that is nice place to see how all each one of them fare.

Bookku (talk) 11:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

HathiTrust ProTip for US based editors: ask and ye shall receive

If you write historic biographies and you're based in the U.S. you know HathiTrust is an excellent place to check for sources. One of the reasons is even though they get many (most?) of their books from the same mass scanning project as Google Books, they actually research the copyright status of books more carefully. In the US a book can be public domain for a number of reasons, not just its age. So in many cases Google Books will indicate something is still in copyright and hide it from you; but HathiTrust will have the same book on full view and will correctly indicate that it has fallen into the public domain. Not only is this good for sourcing, but it means it means you may be able to find photos you can use from books as late as 1963. I've gotten a bunch of great photos this way such as the one on Nora Lawrence Smith. HathiTrust even has a handy "download this page as PDF" button that is perfect for this, import the PDF into a graphics program, crop the photo and boom.

Here's the tip: if you find a book dated from 1925 to 1963 on HathiTrust that you can search but not view, it is possible the copyright was not renewed but HathiTrust just hasn't noticed yet. You can go check. Anyone can look up book copyright renewals at this page at Stanford. Try title, author and publisher and try a few different versions of names. If you find no renewal record and are therefore confident the copyright is lapsed, click the Feedback link on the top line back at the HathiTrust site. Ask them to check the copyright on the book for you, be sure to identify it fully (such as with the URL) so they know which book you are talking about.

I found a potential source on Sunday and did this, and lo they had opened the book up for full view by Tuesday morning! Unfortunately this tip is not great for non-US editors, because HathiTrust only concerns themselves with US copyright law. As a result I'm told they block access outside the United States to avoid legal issues. Cheers and happy hunting. --Krelnik (talk) 17:55, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

All good advice. Note, though 1) that googlebooks are very open to being asked to open up access to books, using the feedback link associated with their books. I've requested they do his for tens of books over the years, and they've come through in every case. 2) as you allude, Hathi take a *really* conservative view of copyright on non-US publications, for non-US users - "access is also restricted for users outside the United States to works published outside the United States after and including 1880"; the Internet Archive takes a much more liberal approach and often has titles available that are restricted within Hathi. (Hathi's approach has the irksome effect of preventing a UKian seeing a PD UK text, but allowing a USian to see it. IMO wars have been started over smaller causes.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:10, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh,interesting. My past experience with Google has always been anything that starts with "Ask someone at Google to..." is just not gonna go anywhere. Did you use the "Report a Problem" link that is in tiny text way down at the bottom of the Google Books page for the book in question? This also gets me thinking, does anyone make a browser widget or something that will help automate the process of jumping between the three services (Google/Hathi/Internet Archive) while looking at the same book? --Krelnik (talk) 18:28, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, 'report an issue' -> 'I have a question or feedback about a book' -> 'I’d like to see the entire book, and I believe the book is in the public domain'. Set out your PD argument. A human will respond; they're always lovely. & yes, the widget you describe would be handy. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:10, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Elizabeth Willing Powel at FAC

I and GreenMeansGo have a FA nomination at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elizabeth Willing Powel/archive1. Anyone with experience reviewing featured articles is invited to add their comments. Thank you! --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 16:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry state of women's colleges people pages

One thing I've been noticing recently is just how much work there is left to do for many pages relating to women's colleges. If anyone is in the mood to create a list, List of Scripps College people for Scripps College does not yet exist and very much should. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 14:54, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

This sort of thing? Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by education/US - Scripps College. But few items have employed by or educated at Scripps. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:37, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, thanks for the link to that; I wasn't aware that existed! Regarding finding people for the list, there are already 43 bluelinked people categorized as alums and 14 as faculty, per Category:Scripps College people, so it's just a matter of going through that. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Farah Baker

I just closed the AfD for this as "keep", but the article needs serious work. Can anyone deal? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:39, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Images

Hazel MacKaye

It's not that I haven't been doing restorations of women, but it's a little hard to argue that, for example, Ethel Smyth, likely the most acclaimed female composer of operas before the modern period, and who accordingly had an article long before WiR existed, is a Woman who was in Red, nor Harriet Jacobs, or Jenny Nyström, or Lucy Arbell or Julie d'Aubigny - all women who deserve attention, but who we weren't responsible for bringing to attention. Although the terrible state of Featured Pictures as regarded women likely justifies a bit of bending the rules, I think that's probably a bit too much.

That said, I absolutely love the latest restoration I did, and it is very much for a Women-in-Red-created article. Behold, Hazel MacKaye!

Trying to spend a bit of time working through all the stuff I said I'd do and haven't yet. Sándor Vay, Elleanor Eldridge, Inter-Allied Women's Conference (once I actually have access to my files for that one again, anyway), and so on. Still, I'm happy to add some things to the to-do list, so suggest away! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 06:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Mary Louise Booth

• Hi, Adam Cuerden. Hazel MacKaye image is nice! I especially like that she's holding a dog. Here's one to consider, Mary Louise Booth. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:30, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: Adding her to the queue. Probably going to hold off briefly, as I kind of want a more colourful image for FP #500, which is likely to be either the next one I do, or the one after that, depending on if Sándor Vay passes. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 20:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

• Happy to make some suggestions, Adam Cuerden, you do such beautiful work!

JeanElmslieHendersonFindlay  Done

Jean Elmslie Henderson Findlay, Scottish author  Done

SusanBMerwin1916  Done

Susan B. Merwin, superintendent, Kentucky School for the Blind  Done

-Penny Richards (talk) 18:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: The last two aren't large enough to pass FPC, but I'll do a quick cleanup of both. I did grab a larger copy of Susan, but still not big enough to pass, and there's no obvious way to get higher-resolution copies. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 13:29, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, while we're at it... Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 13:29, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

In the news

This article from the Washington Post features interviews with two WiR members Rosiestep and Another Believer:
Covid-19 is one of Wikipedia’s biggest challenges ever. Here’s how the site is handling it.
---- WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Miriam Jiménez Román

Any thoughts about this one? Seems pretty dubious for WP:NPROF given Google Scholar citation counts. I'm also not seeing much to satisfy GNG. Perhaps she'll have an obit or two in the next few months in a relevant journal if she's as important as the draft claims? Calliopejen1 (talk) 07:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning this one, Calliopejen1. I found plenty of authority controls for Miriam so a Wikidata item would be suitable, if someone has time and inclination. Also, I reached out to the editor, a newbie, here: User talk:Warriorwoman1967#Women in Red. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:25, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q98217023 - all contributions welcome. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

In answer to the notability question, yes, she appears to me to be extremely notable within her field, on a par with Juan Flores (professor), with whom she co-published. By way of illustration, a 8pp review of their magnum opus The Afro-Latin@ Reader in Transition. I've no doubt we should have an article on her; well worth an investment of time to push the article beyond the reach of deletion. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

FYI, the draft was declined. I probably won't go back to work on this but invite others to do so! Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:51, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Her citation counts definitely aren't good enough to argue for notability via WP:PROF#C1 but that's unsurprising for a field where book publishing and book reviews may be more important than journal articles and citations. However, the draft also lists no books authored (The Afro-Latin Reader is an edited volume, which counts for much less) and no published reviews of books, so it makes no case for notability via WP:AUTHOR. It merely states that she has published some articles, which is never enough without evidence that what she published has made an impact. There do at least exist published reviews of The Afro-Latin Reader, which can be added to source that part of the draft [1] [2] [3], but they're not enough for notability by themselves and I didn't find anything else. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

The article has now been promoted - Miriam Jiménez Román. At least a couple of Afro-Latino/a websites list her as a leading & important Afro-Latina. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:51, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Susie Rayos Marmon - Nominated and awaiting DYK approval

I've nominated the new Susie Rayos Marmon article that I created for the August 2020 Indigenous women edit-a-thon for DYK. It's my first time submitting a DYK, and I would love any feedback and support. Please let me know if I missed a space within this WikiProject for this type of request. Thank you! --Ahsoka Dillard (talk) 02:16, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Tehilah Abakasanga and Öfuurë

If there is someone here who likes to write about fashion and fashion brands, this Nigerian-Canadian entrepreneur is missing an article (as is her company). Not sure about the notability requirements for this field beyond being mentioned a lot in independent sources, which she passes. Also would fit in the BLM campaign that's still going on :) -Yupik (talk) 09:12, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

There might be other people in this article who would pass the notability requirements too. -Yupik (talk) 09:19, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

August brainstorming

Now that we are moving into August, I thought it might be useful to sound out feelings about our monthly priorities and indeed on whether we are offering the best opportunities for increasing the proportion of articles about women and their achievements. I see that in July, for example, by far the most popular "priority" was #1day1woman with some 300 new or expanded articles, substantially more than all the other priorities together. Apart from considerable interest in BLM, participation in the others was pretty low. In reviewing new articles about women, I have also noticed that a fair number carry some kind of general Women in Red tag on their talk pages although they are not specifically included in any of the listings on our events pages. While this ensures considerable increases in the stats on our WiR pages, it might also indicate that we are not covering the priorities our editors are most interested in. As a result of all this, in August we have decided to keep to just two new priorities, "Indigenous women" and "Countries headed by women". It is hoped this will provide additional encouragement for participation on these topics.

Looking further ahead, it would be useful to have more reactions from our members and contributors on how we should develop our focus for September and the coming months. Are the monthly priorities a good idea or should we have more events stretching over longer periods? What topics should we be repeating on a year-to-year basis and what new topics deserve special consideration? Is the supporting information on our site what new and continuing contributors need to understand our objectives. Do we provide assistance for identifying the names of women or related topics requiring coverage? And finally, how useful are our monthly invitations to participate in specific events?

Please feel free to help us along with any reactions or ideas you may have on these items or indeed on the project as a whole. It might be useful to respond here but we also look forward to specific suggestions for the months ahead on our Ideas page. Let me finish by saying how much I enjoy monitoring all the additions and improvements which come in every month, helping us to make incremental progress on the stats for women on the English Wikipedia. While short informative articles account for a substantial proportion of our progress, I have noted increasing concern with quality -- as can be seen from the number of articles created on WiR which reach GA rating or higher. Keep up the good work and let us know how we can do even better. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 12:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• I enjoy what I see as a monthly challenge to find articles I can create on the chosen topics, sometimes way outside my comfort zone. I've managed at least one solid stub with sound references and appropriate incoming redirects and surname page entries, for each editathon so far: here's the list. But I'm a non-specialist retired layabout gnome, pottering around Wikipedia falling down time-sink rabbit-holes. My other article creations are a pretty random collection - see my user page for a list. PamD 14:49, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
• Personally, I find the broader monthly topics to be most feasible: I've enjoyed contributing to the annual Indigenous women event in August over the past couple of years, as it allows for a big range of occupations/geographical locations. Narrower topics such as "July Julies" are (while interesting!) much more challenging to find article candidates and sourcing for. I'd love to see a larger WiR contest event again sometime, similar to the World Contest -- it's not so much about prizes (barnstars might be a simple enough incentive), but I really like the energy generated when a group is aiming for a collective goal together (e.g. X number of new articles in 2-month period). Alanna the Brave (talk) 15:25, 31 July 2020 (UTC)-cc Encyclopædius--Ipigott (talk) 16:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• Hi Ipigott, I like the on-going, year long #1day1woman. I really enjoyed the year long Focus on Suffrage last year and I think I have read that you are considering a year long Olympics focus, which would be exciting for me if we could incorporate the artistic medals.
  
  I like the recurring annual events of Public Domain, Black History Month, Art+Feminism.
  
  I generally do not participate in the geo-focus events. My suggestion would be to make some of the events quarterly instead of monthly. For example, if a geo-focus was continental, North American & South America, Asia, Africa, Europe & Australia/Oceania it would broaden the focus, appeal to a wider audience, and be easier to maintain administratively. FWIW, Public Domain could be expanded to quarterly or year-long, although most of the action occurs in the Wiki Commons area, and might not boost the metrics.
  
  It might be worthwhile to have an event called something like "the last mile" which would encourage participants to learn about how Wikidata and the Commons can be used to improve articles. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
• I like both the monthly priorities and the ever-once-and-awhile longer events (like the BLM one going on right now). Even when I don't complete a monthly article in the month an event is assigned, I usually start drafts on topics I wouldn't find otherwise (which can always then be completed for the #1day1woman later). Also, I agree with Alanna the Brave that broader topics are easier to get into. The "Women from where?" is an example of a really great topic (especially for researching underrepresented areas), but I felt the choices of regions were a tiny bit narrow (and the redlists were shorter to choose from, since they were auto-created from wiki-data), making it harder to get started.
  So, I think specific topics like those are really important, but the choices in them maybe need to be as broad as possible? Or, I wonder if there is a way to ask or remind the WiR community to get involved with adding to the redlists before a monthly event starts, so that we can collectively buff up the amount of choices in each topic? It would at least get us thinking of who we might want to work on ahead of time. In the more specific event topics, sometimes I find someone I want to research later on in the month, and so I'm not able to finish before the month is up. Just a thought. - Whisperjanes (talk) 04:04, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't think WMF are offering grants for contests at the moment. I agree that we're due another big contest though. I could of course set up a 50,000 article creation challenge for WIR, the destubbing one already has nearly 2400. That might encourage more people to contribute. † Encyclopædius 09:23, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Encyclopædius -- I find the 50,000 article creation challenges a bit overwhelming, honestly (my contributions are hardly a drop in the bucket). A smaller, more feasible collective goal might be more appealing for participants (e.g. 2500 or 5000). Alanna the Brave (talk) 12:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Well if you consider that (the last time I looked) we typically get between 1500 and 2000 on average a month in one year that's already about 20,000. 50,000 isn't that excessive. The 50,000 Challenge isn't a contest but a long term goal. In fact I actually originally proposed a 100,000 Challenge which had support from several members here. You could probably do a contest and aim for 5000 articles though with the prizes going to whoever creates the most articles when we hit the 5000 mark.† Encyclopædius 12:43, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Maybe we could arrange a series of "contests" for the various continents, not necessary with prizes other than virtual recognition. As suggested above, we could take them on a quarterly basis. In alphabetical order, we could have Africa (October to December 2020), Asia (January to March 2021), Europe (April to June 2021), Latin America (July to September 2021) and Oceania (October to December 2021). If these are successful, we could then devote the four quarters of 2022 to the states and provinces of the U.S. and Canada. If we do this, there would be no need for additional geofocus priorities.--Ipigott (talk) 15:02, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I do like this idea of quarterly geofocus "contests" by continent, Ipigott. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I like the idea too, and virtual recognition would likely work just fine -- I took part in a GA review backlog drive this year, with participants receiving various barnstars according to their contributions, and the drive was quite successful. Alanna the Brave (talk) 23:28, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Rough draft of list of countries. Please note that country grouping are subjective and I have used multiple sources, therefore Turkey appears in both Asia an Europe. A more thorough examination would reveal if a country has been left out. I have intentionally tried to exclude territories. I am unfamiliar with any longstanding policies regarding countries like Burma and Palestine and would not want to offend/irritate any one. If there are known issues, please feel free to comment. Thanks WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:28, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• Africa = Algeria, Angola, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cabo Verde, Cameroon, Central African Republic (CAR), Chad, Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of the, Congo, Republic of the, Cote d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Eswatini (formerly Swaziland), Ethiopia, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe
• Asia = Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, China, Cyprus, Georgia, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar (formerly Burma), Nepal, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Turkey, Turkmenistan, ,United Arab Emirates (UAE), Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen
• Europe = Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Uzbekistan
• Latin America is generally understood to consist of the entire continent of South America in addition to Mexico, Central America, and the islands of the Caribbean whose inhabitants speak a Romance language. = Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico. Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay, Venezuela
• Oceania = Australia, Micronesia, Fiji, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Nauru, New Zealand, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu and Vanuatu

WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:55, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott, Rosiestep Pinging you to find out if you would like me to continue refining this list, or if you already have one you want to use. Please let me know if I should continue working on it (checking that all countries recognized by the US State Department are on it etc.). Thanks. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:34, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Wow and thank you, WomenArtistUpdates. I think you've done a fine job with this research. As long as information closely correlates with the Wikipedia articles for these continents, it should be ok. But I will defer to Ipigott as I think he has more expertise in this area than I do. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:41, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates: Thanks for all this useful preparatory work. Unfortunately, I was not able to access your source for Africa, no doubt owing to legal difficulties for those of us who are based in Europe. However, your listing looks fine to me and covers exactly the same countries as those listed on List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Africa although some of the individual names are not exactly the same. I'll look more carefully at the other lists later. If we decide to go ahead with Africa for October to December, the top priority will be to expand our redlists. In particular, I think we need to develop crowd-sourced lists for the countries where the principal language is English as the Wikidata lists are not likely to offer much help. Any assistance you and others can offer in this connection would be greatly appreciated. (We might also consider collaborating with the Swedish initiatives in support of some of the African countries.)--Ipigott (talk) 08:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

It's probably worth noting that one issue with geofocus on a country is that countries change over time. For example, when do notable women from, say, the Kingdom of Bohemia or the Mayan Empire or the Hittite Empire get covered? The borders don't really map very well to any modern state. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 08:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Ipigott and Rosiestep for the feedback. I am so used to NOT using Wikipedia as a source, that I didn't do the (now) obvious thing of starting there. Starting with Africa, I'll review the appropriate wiki pages and then double check with a second source. Ipigott, that link works now. It was an error on my part. And I agree, the big job will be creating the red lists. It is beyond my expertise, so making the lists is the best I can do to help. Adam Cuerden, you are right that borders and countries change over time, and I would add, all the time. I propose that for this project we list the current countries as a starting point. If an editor wants to do an article on a subject from Bohemia, Timbuktu, or Van Diemen's Land they can do it during that continent's quarter. I wouldn't know where to begin to try to assemble a list of all the countries that ever existed. Best, WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:31, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott Here's a second draft (with coding and notes) WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

List of countries based on the Wikipedia articles List of sovereign states and dependent territories by continent and Portal:Latin America, reviewed for completeness using the US State Department's Independent States in the World Fact Sheet, July 16, 2020.

note: Wikipedia has articles for regions (List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Africa, List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Asia, List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Eurasia, List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Europe, List of sovereign states and dependent territories in North America, List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Oceania, List of sovereign states and dependent territories in South America) which have subtle differences from the main List of sovereign states and dependent territories by continent. List of sovereign states and dependent territories by continent was selected for completeness and lack of duplication. For purposes of the quarterly WIR geo-focus editathons, the continent of North and South America, excluding the US and Canada, are combined for the region Latin America.
The countries of Taiwan and Palestine have been included though their status as countries is disputed.

• Africa = Algeria, Angola, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cabo Verde (Cape Verde), Cameroon, Central African Republic(CAR), Chad, Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of the (DRC), Congo, Republic of the, Cote d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Eswatini (formerly Swaziland), Ethiopia, Gabon, The Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe
• Asia = Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, China, Cyprus, Egypt, Georgia, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Korea, North, Korea, South, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar (formerly Burma), Nepal, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen
• Europe = Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic (Czechia), Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Moldova, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Vatican City (Holy See)
• Latin America (as defined in the Portal:Latin America article) = Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Aruba, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Martinique, Mexico, Montserrat, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, Uruguay, Venezuela
• Oceania = Australia, Fiji, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, New Zealand, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Timor-Leste (East Timor), Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu

• Hi All, Just to add I really like the geofocus months & I really like the narrow focuses we sometimes have too! Saying that I'm happy to edit along with the majority - it can be quite hard to find people to make pages for with the obscurer places. I'd be in favour of the WikiData/WikiCommons theme idea too. I'm trying to add more and more people to wikidata, but it would be great to connect what we do individually with WIR. I get confised with what themes have been done - but I wondered about time periods as a future theme (which could be global too) and as broad/narrow as we liked? e.g. pre-1000 CE or born in 1985, for example? Thanks so much for all the organising - I really enjoy contributing to the project! (Lajmmoore (talk) 18:30, 6 August 2020 (UTC))
• @WomenArtistUpdates: Egypt is in both Africa and Asia, because of the Sinai Peninsula. You can find out more about countries located in more than one continent here: List of transcontinental countries. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:06, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the information Finnusertop and the link to transcontinental countries! The Sinai Peninsula! I will update the note. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:22, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates, sounds like Women from Transcontinental Countries could be a theme! Lajmmoore (talk) 08:11, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Lajmmoore, Oh, Women from Transcontinental Countries sounds so exotic :)! I don't think we could get the competitive spirit going for that one though. As a betting person, I think Oceania will rule. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:10, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Women's Hockey and Notability; and support for Women's Hockey Task Force

Hi everyone, There is a discussion currently happening about the notability standards for hockey players, WP:NHOCKEY. It emerged from a AfD discussion. The notability guidelines for hockey don't include any mention of women's hockey. This apparently was discussed in past years, by the Hockey wikiproject. The discussion is whether the standards should be revisited, given increased coverage of women's hockey in recent years. Would be great to have some support in the discussion, if anyone wants to chime in. It's frustrating to be told that women's hockey as a sports doesn't even rate being included in the notability guidelines and that previous discussions have been held and the matter is considered closed. I doubt many women were involved in the discussion. Also, there is a lot of work to be done in the area of women's hockey, so if anyone wants to chip in to help out in August, while "sports" is a focus, that would be great! The Women's Hockey Task Force is trying to recommit to editing and improving articles in this space in the coming 12 months. We have identified some areas that need particular attention. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women%27s_sport/Ice_hockey_task_force WikiProject Women's sport/Ice hockey task force . Thank you! - PMCH2 (talk) 13:06, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• Here is the link to the current discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey#WP%3ANHOCKEY_should_be_updated_for_female_leagues PMCH2 (talk) 13:07, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Ethel Pye

I was researching Ethel Pye. She was a sculptor, and a neo-pagan in the group of Rupert Brooke. I knew she did not have a wiki page, but while researching also Brynhild Olivier I noticed a blue link; happily I clicked on it only to be redirected to Sybil Pye's page, her sister... I do not think this is a good redirect. Ethel Pye is a Woman in Red, and should not have her page redirect to her sister. --Elisa.rolle (talk) 12:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I created this stub Ethel Pye, can someone look at it and mark it as such? moreover I used some sentences from Sybil Pye, marking it in the references, but please can someone check it as well and let me know if I have to change them? --Elisa.rolle (talk) 13:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. There are many women in exactly the same situation on Wikipedia - existing only as redirects to somewhere more or less inappropriate. For the info lifted from Sybil, it's best to take the reference that was in that article - to ODNB - rather than use Wikipedia as a ref - which I've now done. (Wikipedia is not a reliable source!). What you were quite properly trying to do with your reference is better achieved by noting in the edit summary something like "including words taken from [[whatever article]] - see that for article history". I'm sure that Ethel is notable; possibility is we need to do a bit more work on her article to dissuade deletionists, but it's a very good start article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:33, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I suspect David Pye (furniture) is the nephew alluded to in your article, albeit you give -1992 and it says 1 Jan 93 for his death, but I've yet to look for corroborating info - you may know more. And was the mother really called Margaret Thompson Thompson Kidston? --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:40, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I added more info. There is even more, about her work in wood and clothes painter, but they are difficult to retrieve. For now I think we achieved the risk of deletion. Elisa.rolle (talk) 14:23, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Shame we don't know more of her work, particularly her jewellery. She still exists mainly because of her birth & friendships, which is tenuous. I think there's also a cite to be had that she inspired William Pye (sculptor) - I /think/ this is a photo of her & her work on his site. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:41, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I found that picture too, but there is not reference she is Ethel (even if I'm pretty much sure she is). Elisa.rolle (talk) 15:09, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Can someone help me to make a wiki page for myself?

Hi there,

I hope this is the right place to ask this question. If not please forgive me. My name is Didem Gurdur Broo. I am a scientist who works on data, ai and cyber-physical systems. Currently, I work for the University of Cambridge. I have been awarded marie skłodowska-curie fellowship from the european commission so after September I will be at the Stanford University.

I can provide my CV and have a profile page at the University of Cambridge. I also have a webpage, LinkedIn and Twitter accounts. I want to have a wikipage. I have never done one before and I really appreciate if someone can help me? I can provide all the necessary information.

Best wishes, Didem — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgurdur (talk • contribs) 11:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Dgurdur. Probably not on Wikipedia, where the standard for inclusion of academics is set out at Wikipedia:Notability (academics). Good luck with Stanford. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:47, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Although it's not how the standard is actually defined, a simpler description that's reasonably accurate is that full professors at good research universities usually are sufficiently notable for articles, assistant professors are usually not, and students and postdocs are almost always not. Associate professors, research-only staff, and people at lesser universities vary case by case. —David Eppstein (talk) 16:48, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Dgurdur: Congratulations on your academic progress. Stanford will indeed offer outstanding opportunities. I see that this request is your only contribution to Wikipedia. As a woman interested in improving the coverage of women, maybe you would like to become a member of Women in Red? You could start by creating your own user page where you could summarize your personal ambitions and describe how you wish to contribute to Wikipedia. And by the way, I see the correct spelling of your name is Didem Gürdür Broo.--Ipigott (talk) 14:14, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

What an interesting request. The short answer is 'don't' the long answer is far more interesting. With a maths/physics degree myself I have looked at the titles of some of the papers you have written- and you are working in an interesting field with missing articles. and corrections to be made. It would help Wikipedia immensely if you could contribute to those pages. It will only be a matter of time before your name is added to one of those pages by another editor, and one of us can use that as a hook to write a bio. If you look at Silvie Huijben who has similar prominence to yourself you will find an article has been written. Every wikipedian has their own home page, and the ability to add sandboxes to it. Personally I would start a sandbox User:Dgurdur/biography sandbox and mock up an article in a similar format. This is relaxing, allows you to practise and master wikipedia mark-up code, and gives us the material needed when someone else starts starts the article on you. Hopefully it will have lots of wikilinks to subjects in your field. Keep in touch.ClemRutter (talk) 15:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all for providing useful information. Now I know better how this works. I will surely consider the suggestions and try to learn more about the details. I will certainly start the mock up sandbox and play with it. If I feel that I can do more I am happy to support the Women in Red. I do not think that I am there yet. Best wishes and thanks again! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgurdur (talk • contribs) 18:03, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Ethel Booty

Anyone able to help this draft re: a British woman photographer of historic buildings? Current references don't really support notability, unfortunately. Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

This is now promoted - Ethel Booty; it has no new refs, but arguably meets WP:ARTIST criteria 4 "The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument" if we suppose that Historic England organising her work as the Ethel Booty collection is significant. It is for me. (Plus WomenArtistUpdate made it look way more authoritative with 30em columns & such.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Ann Graves Tanksley

Hi all, could any interested editors help clean up this article by a new editor, artist Draft:Ann Graves Tanksley? It's a great start but some of the referencing can be improved. I noticed there are quite a few news clippings about the subject on newspapers.com. I will get to it over the coming days if there isn't any interest! Thanks! - MapleSoy (talk) 02:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

There might be a bit too much cut & paste in that article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:53, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I can help with this article over the next week. PMCH2 (talk) 15:09, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I've promoted the article to Ann Graves Tanksley. Needs categorising & linking to wikidata. Like all articles, it could do with more work. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:00, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata link and some categories added. ---Oronsay (talk) 01:33, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon, PMCH2, and Oronsay: Wow, thank you all! - MapleSoy (talk) 03:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

S. R. Harris

Any help appreciated with S. R. Harris. I've done some work on her but the referencing isn't strong. There are also three WiR links on her page if anyone wants to check them out: Nicola McCartney, dramatist, Ailie Cohen, puppeteer, and Marieke Slovin Lewis, poet. Thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 07:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Gabriela Garcia Medina

This writer and performer seems notable. Subject may have been created by heror someone connected to her. FloridaArmy (talk) 11:33, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

She looks 100% not notable to me. She made a short film that showed at a few festivals -- there are TONS of these people, nothing special. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:08, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

But she did win an award. I’d say give it some encouragement to develop and offer comments per NFILM or something. It’s just in draftspace, doing no harm. Montanabw^(talk) 18:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

There are a LOT of festivals out there and they all give multiple awards. None of the awards were important enough to generate any secondary coverage. I agree it's not doing any harm, but I would not recommend that WIR members invest time in this one... Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Gendered categories

Both Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality and WP:non-diffusing say gendered categories should be non-diffusing "in most cases", but don't go into explaining when they aren't. Because a lot of Category:Female singer-songwriters by nationality and Category:Male singer-songwriters by nationality subcategories do not bear the corresponding tag and the categorisation of the included pages doesn't follow the rule either, it seems best to ask the WikiProject first before doing any changes. Is there any case where gendered categories for musicians are diffusing? 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 22:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, 1234qwer1234qwer4 - this is something I've been meaning to raise for a while. It seems to me that we're inconsistent. I've been treating female singer categories, for instance, as if they're non-diffusing, but that has been questioned by other editors. Meantime, we've accepted that other female musician categories, such as Category:American female classical composers, are non-diffusing as a matter of course. I'm easy either way, but I think we need to pick a standard. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 00:25, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I vaguely thought the pattern was non-diffusing where there's a genderless category and a gendered/female subcategory; and diffusing if all articles are placed in gendered categories only (and the genderless parent category is not used). --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:00, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The question of this topic is exactly when "the genderless parent category is not used". 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 10:37, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree - we need, I think, to come to a consensus on this topic. It seems generally clear, but when I've started trying to follow the non-diffusion rule with, say, certain categories of singer, I've run into a lot of pushback. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:25, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ser Amantio di Nicolao: Do you remember the usernames? It would probably be useful to ping them to increase participation. From the little number of replies, it seems this is a topic in that not many are interested right now. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 21:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I remember talking to Koavf about the issue, and to Lugnuts about something similar - I'm sure I had other discussions, but with whom I honestly don't remember. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Really? Nobody? Maybe this should be asked at the village pump then. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 22:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

I'd vastly prefer if we hash it out here, honestly. I still think we need to discuss and define a consensus. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

To add another point to this discussion, diffusing gendered categories don't seem like they would account for nonbinary people very well. To use the example of singer-songwriters, Tash Sultana is an Australian singer-songwriter, and thus belongs in Category:Australian singer-songwriters, but they're also nonbinary so their article doesn't belong in "Australian male singer-songwriters" or "Australian female singer-songwriters". Unfortunately, there aren't all that many articles on nonbinary people on Wikipedia - Category:Non-binary musicians only has 48 articles, and there are very few categories of nonbinary people by nationality that I can find - so creating parallel categories for nonbinary people could result in a lot of single-article categories. On the other hand, if those categories don't exist, articles on nonbinary people would end up awkwardly left in top-level categories that are supposedly diffusing (and are liable to be shoehorned into one of the gendered categories by misguided editors). I feel like we'd be better off not diffusing categories by gender than organizing our categories around the assumption that people can be neatly sorted into gendered subcategories. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 03:38, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Rfc:What do you feel about depiction of Women's rights issues in Country name articles?

What do you feel about depiction of Women's rights issues in Country name articles?

What do I mean by Country name articles?

For example USA France Russia China to Djibouti any of 193 UN member states

Many times I browse country name articles just to find what sort of information article gives about status of women in respective countries, and personally I do have reservations the way poorly most of articles cover women rights issues in respective countries.

1) Have you visited Wikipedia article page of Your own country, Your country of residence, if different from country of citizenship. Whether article represents Women's rights issue adequately?

2) If not, then do you feel need of country name articles to cover women's rights issues better.

3) Or do you opposed to the very idea of Country name articles to cover Women's rights issues in their own countries. If opposed what are the reasons you will push forwards including personal ones like to hide limitations in your country.

4) If you are opposed then what are best Wikipedia policies which can shield your country from depiction of Women rights issues and help in soft-censorship. Like of How to bite,WP:COATRACK,WP:CFORK suggest more.

Please don't be surprised or stressed, Wikipedians are good @ doing that to keep women in good humor. So take all such reasons humorously and easy, if you don't agree with ever eager curators who can throw policy document and interpretations at you with ease :)

Your comments please.

@Rosguill: May be you want to help by assisting by wikisplaining on some more policies, then you are most welcome.

Bookku (talk) 05:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Bookku: An interesting suggestion but I'm not at all sure we should add a section on women's rights to the main articles on countries. Many of them are already extremely long (over 300 kB), calling for more independent articles on aspects such as human rights, gender equality, etc. There are of course cases where the place of women deserves inclusion but there is no reason why this should be generalized. What might be useful is a List of women's rights by country, perhaps based on Category:Women's rights by country and Category:Human rights by country. (I note there are a number of countries which still have no articles on these aspects.) If we put together a list, we could draw on rankings such as Women's workforce country rankings and the Women Peace and Security Index.--Ipigott (talk) 08:22, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, and do appreciate your other suggestions

I suppose United States article is long enough has space to discuss teenage pregnancy and fertility rate but no space for women's rights issue?

France a long article has space to brag France is one of the world leaders of gender equality in the workplace: as of 2017, it has 36.8% of its corporate board seats held by women, which makes it the leader of the G20 for that metric; but no space for intimate violence issues?

I deliberately took examples form developed countries articles. If just every one visits articles of own countries and audit the same for Women related aspects and note here it will give fantastic information. 50% population of most countries why should not have adequate share in bytes along with the issues concerned. IMHO.

Bookku (talk) 09:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Rfc: Soft censoring of Ex-Muslim Articles

Hi, Request for comment discussion has been initiated @ Talk:List of former Muslims#Rfc: Soft censoring of Ex-Muslim Articles and has reference to Women article there in.

Those interested can express their views there in.

Thanks

Bookku (talk) 09:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

SKBL Biographical Dictionary of Swedish Women - Wikidata P4963

Hi project some good news from Sweden we have now > 1450 english articles in english about Swedish women created by "Biographical Dictionary of Swedish Women"

• text written in that project has license CC BY 4.0 see link
  • TODO I will try to speak with them this week and get the metadata with CC0 so we can have better data in Wikidata
• we have a Wikidata property Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) that we try to get in synch with new articles created in the Dictionary see in Swedish a Jupiter Notebook
• articles in en:Wikipedia and in SKBL = 680
  • articles missing in en:Wikipedia = 771
  • articles using Template:SKBL see = 679
    • articles missing the Template:SKBL see Petscan query = 1
• easiest way to communicate with the project is on Facebook maybe they can create an english FB group link
• the Swedish people on sv:Wikipedia communicates on the Talk page about this dictionary sv:Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon

Next step

• See GITHUB we hope that SKBL moves direction linked data and also starts do same as Wikidata for schools, places, occupations author

- Salgo60 (talk) 07:04, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Nice work. We've put together Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by dictionary/BDSW in response. Not sure if it is your plan to copy the BDSW articles to wikipedia (presuming we can take CC-BY; I forget.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon: Fast work!!!! I am most the Wikidata nerd but in the Swedish Wikipedia other people has

• written 1381 for people "same as" SKBL
  • I updated Wikidata this weekend and now we have a mismatch on 75 articles

my understanding is that people for new articles use the SKBL article as an base and then make it more WIkipedia like

• my hope is when we get much better SKBL metadata (CC-0) in Wikidata --> that we by adding information what schools people visited see suggestion on GITHUB we on Structured data on Commons easier can use that information to identify who is in an old painting/picture from a school....

- Salgo60 (talk) 08:31, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks, Salgo60, for bringing this to our attention. Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon is indeed a good starting point for biographies of Swedish women although for articles to be acceptable for the EN wiki, it is usually necessary for them to include at least two other reliable sources. The keywords in the BDSW English articles are good triggers for Wikipedia categories. Tagishsimon's WiR BDSW listing should be useful too, especially the "BDSW entry" column. Many of our existing articles on Swedish women could benefit from BDSW-based expansion. I'll certainly be making use of it.--Ipigott (talk) 08:42, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ipigott: thanks for the feedback please clarify what you define as a source, is an authority in a library good enough?. Dictionary of Swedish National Biography ID (P3217) is the Swedish National Archive that was started in 1918 see about SBL.... they write most about men just 6 percent is female... this project is just some years old and is as you can see on about managed by the University of Gothenburg. The problem SBL has is that they started writing bios in 1918 and started from letter A and has now after 100 years reached S.... and to be part of it you need to be dead --> a lot of famous female people like Astrid Lindgren was stil alive when they wrote her letter ;-) we guess they will reach the last letter i 20 years and can start fill up the gaps and then we get 2 sources ;-).... see below some Swedish related properties we have in Wikidata that has a person in common with SKBL and miss an article in en:Wikipedia

• List missing articles with ref Dictionary of Swedish National Biography ID (P3217) and Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) -> list 93 women
• List missing articles with ref Swedish Musical Heritage ID (P4607) and Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) -> list 2 women
• List missing articles with ref Dictionary of Swedish Translators ID (P5147) and Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) -> list 27 women
• List missing articles with ref Swedish Signaturer.se ID (P5316) and Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) -> list 19 women
• List missing articles with ref Swedish Literature Bank Author ID (P5101) and Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) -> list 45 women

- Salgo60 (talk) 09:09, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Salgo60: Thanks for your detailed response. Examples of other reliable sources include those with extensive coverage in recognized newspapers and magazines, descriptive passages in books, critical appraisals, significant awards, and coverage in informative websites not directly related to the individual. Published obituaries are frequently among the most useful sources for fairly recent deaths. Other biographical dictionaries can of course also be used. Authority library files are frequently listed as a result of including our "authority control" template in the EN wiki. As far as I can see, only women who are no longer living feature in the SKBL.

The investment in SKBL and its rapid progress is impressive. I see they expect to publish a further 1,000 biographies this year. (Are they still on schedule?) The coverage of each woman is considerably more detailed than in many of the current biographical dictionaries of women from other countries. The articles are easily accessible and carry the right Creative Commons license. The only minor difficulty at this stage is that it is not possible to save the images although the majority of them are actually public domain. Do you happen to know if they somewhere publish the source of each image like many other biographical dictionaries? (I realize many of them can be accessed by searching other sources but it would be more convenient to save them directly from the articles. I see, though, that SKBL states "Bilderna i SKBL har hämtats från muséer, arkiv och privatpersoner. SKBL äger alltså inte bilderna och kan därmed inte ge tillstånd till reproduktion.")

It looks to me as if it would be useful to include an English version of Svenskt_kvinnobiografiskt_lexikon along the lines of the KVINFO article.--Ipigott (talk) 10:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott

1) yes if someone with better english than me can write an english version of sv:Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon then I change the Template:SKBL to link that

2) copyright and me are not the my best friends but the URL to the picture is in the JSON --> article en/article/SelmaLagerlof has json --> SelmaLagerlof.json then you have the picture url in the portrait tag and a small description that can in an unstructured way give hints for source see GIST where I extracted the URL and the text for all SKBL profiles

2-1) In Sweden we use license PD-Sweden-photo in Wikicommons for "siumple" pictures older than xxxx

2-2) I have also created a WD property Swedish Portrait Archive ID (P4819) that has picture you can use as they normally fullfil PD-Sweden-photo

2-2-1) list of items with SKBL missing image (P18) but has a link to this crazy scanning project with > 700 000 Swedish portraits Swedish Portrait Archive ID (P4819) = 82 items

- Salgo60 (talk) 11:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott as you looks to have Nordic roots I also created yesterday a Template:Digitaltmuseum usage Category:Digitaltmuseum_template_using_Wikidata_property_P1248 i.e. they have a Linked Data like Wikidata 0.1 with same as and person/birth/death the idea is that a museums should add objects to Digitalmuseums and use a "common" authority for persons that we in WD store in KulturNav-ID (P1248)

• --> we have SKBL and P1248 list
• --> we have en:Wikipedia SKBL and P1248 list
• problem is that Swedish museum dont learn Linked data and dont understand the possibilities connecting SILOS I have tried them to push find SKBL people in some parts of Sweden see blog - no success. I also did connect another project Europeana with Wikidata in december and it was a tragedy museums sends text strings and Europeana tries to guess who the person is and no one complains or care that they have useless metadata and I guess no one using it. I feel Wikipedia feels 1000% more healthy than what paid museumsworkers deliver see blog

- Salgo60 (talk) 11:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Salgo60: Thanks to my wife, I am fluent in Danish and get by in the other Scandinavian languages. I actually helped to found the Europeana project while I was still at the European Commission and am happy to see it is still going strong. I do a fair amount of content editing but I am no expert with metadata or the intricacies of Wikidata. Others reading this page may be able to assist. I'm now working on Barbro Bächström but I'll try to put something together on Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon in the next day or two.--Ipigott (talk) 11:44, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott its a small world that is getting rather complex.... I like what I see in Wikidata and how skilled people start doing magic... in Sweden we have a lot of Parliament document in Wikidata and Judgement from the Swedish high court... what I feel as an outsider with the Europeana project is that "linked data needs linked people" and the project has underestimated the skills and communication needed to send "things" instead of Strings.... we need Entity management and a clear vision see T251225 I stopped working 10 years ago because getting bored and I was then on a Swedish bank doing international bank transactions and I would say that we had the feeling people get "killed" if the metadata was not maintained and transferred correct and if we had a mistake we rolled back the software version in 20 minutes ... now I see museums 2020 still creates "strings" it makes me sad as good curated museum data would be the winner with all the digital material coming alive... Hopefully we start also use Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon ID (P4963) for identify "same as" schools classes etc...

• the challenge I see is the one you stated in your first line are those "women relevant" do they have enough sources? If organisations like SKBL are doing the homework I guess they can together with an open loosely network like Wikipedia make a difference and hopefully we get museums also jump on the "linked data train"... the future will tell - Salgo60 (talk) 12:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

: Salgo60: Don't worry too much about the additional sources. Experienced editors will be able to find them if they exist. Then again, there are probably numerous cases when women in the SKBL are not considered notable enough to be included in the English wiki. If Swedish editors create articles about them, then it will be easier to justify English articles. Most of the SKBL biographies include useful sources but many cannot be accessed over the web. Let's just see how things develop over the next few weeks and months. Thanks once again for all your interest.--Ipigott (talk) 12:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Maddie Phillips attack

Hi there, one of my actress articles seems to be the victim of a possibly sexist/moralist witch-hunt, I am guessing because her latest acting role may be offensive to some. Maddie Phillips is my 106th article created and seems to be coming under attack despite my best intentions to source properly and keep within Wikipedia policy. I would be grateful if you would look at it to see if you agree with them or are they being harsh? James Kevin McMahon (talk) 18:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Visual aid to demonstrate systemic bias in sources

Been trolling old encyclopedias of biographies on HathiTrust for photos that are out of copyright, and boy it occurred to me yesterday while doing this... if you ever need to demonstrate systemic bias to someone, here is a simple way to do it. Go to the catalog listing for Encyclopedia of American Biography which was published by the American Historical Society ran from the 1930s to the 1960s. It has 40 volumes, about 32 of which are now public domain. Pick a volume at random and click the Full View link. Now on the right side, click View Thumbnails. These books have hundreds of biographies each, and about every third bio or so is accompanied by a photo on its own page.

Scroll through the thumbnails, and note how long you have to scroll before you see a picture of a woman. It takes a while. I would also suggest counting how long you have to scroll before you see a non-white person, but frankly I've been through probably 10 different volumes of books like this and I don't think I've seen one. 95% of it is just white man after white man. --Krelnik (talk) 18:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

(Oh the above demo will only work inside the United States due to HathiTrust restrictions, sorry). --Krelnik

Krelnik, I quickly stumbled upon a biography of a woman who we don't cover: Minna Leighton Zerann https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89080535628&view=1up&seq=128. I don't what 's worse; that they have so few biographies of women, or that we don't even have all the ones they do. Vexations (talk) 20:54, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Vexations Yes, I've found a few people to add to redlists too this way. I've mainly been focusing on the photos so I may be missing even more redlinks; but last night I found 8 photos usable in 2 volumes, one photo we already had, one was a photo for a redlink we've logged already, two were new redlinks, I made sure to very clearly mark up the book reference in each photo's data for future use. --Krelnik (talk) 21:06, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Vexations You inspired me to create Mary Schenck Woolman to go with one of the photos I found in that batch. She already had a Wikidata based on an American National Biography article on her. It was interesting working off a Wikidata shell that had sources in it, I've never done that before. I usually work on more obscure historical figures where I have to work up all the sources myself. But its always good to do something different once in a while. Cheers. --Krelnik (talk) 05:19, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I go to bed, only to wake up to the annoyance of a well-known administrator having drive-by tagged the article reads "rii much like an admiring obituary". UGGH. First, what does "rii" stand for? Second, can someone take a look and tell me what the hell he's talking about? I thought I stayed pretty factual, pretty much every sentence has a footnote on it. Yeah, some of the sources are admiring obituaries, but... --Krelnik (talk) 11:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Krelnik: I think "rii" is supposed to be "too", given the context and the location of the letters on your typical keyboard. Kingsif (talk) 11:37, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh good spot, I thought maybe it was "Required Inspection Item" which is apparently an aviation term that is obscure enough that it doesn't even have a listing on Wikipedia, and is only used in passing in one article. Just trying to tell the interesting story about how this woman was born into a wealthy family, almost went bankrupt, which accidentally put her in contact with a professor at a school where her career got started. It's an interesting story that makes the biography worth reading and not a dry recitation of facts. But I guess that's too much human interest for the drive by taggers. --11:46, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

The bias is so tremendous in these types of tomes. I recently finished listening to Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez (2019) and it reopened my eyes to how dire this issue is. I'm sorry to hear about the tag on the Woolman article. It doesn't read that way to me. But, I am a little confused why her husband's death is under career, not personal life.Fred (talk) 18:43, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Good point about the husband, I'll move it. I think I put it there chronologically and never revisited the positioning. I've also just now rewritten the "financial difficulties" section and renamed it "Move to New York", and made a few other edits, that I think might resolve the issue, psychically second guessing what this editor wants changed. If someone could give my edits a look and if you agree remove the tag at the top? I don't want to do it myself and get accused of something by that admin. --Krelnik (talk) 19:58, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Nadiashda Galli-Shohat

I've been (very slowly) going through the redlinked women on the List of American Physical Society Fellows. Having created articles for Alice Armstrong and Jane Dewey, I wanted to try making at least a brief biography of Nadiashda Galli-Shohat. It's in draft stage now:

• Draft:Nadiashda Galli-Shohat (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I turned up a couple other potential references that are in the "External links" section right now. Someone else may be able to access them more easily than I can (my university library's website is being rather uncooperative). XOR'easter (talk) 23:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

beta.trimread.com works reasonably well on newspapers.com links, without a subscription. Doesn't work on the Time story, though. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:55, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I was able to read the Abilene Reporter-News story and get a little more biographical information from it, so it's promoted to a reference now. XOR'easter (talk) 00:21, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I have a newspapers.com access, so I converted your newspaper reference to a "clip" link which is freely available to all. I put it in the draft. --Krelnik (talk) 11:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I recently needed another TIME article and two different people answered me at WP:RX - one with a page scan and one with full text. They got the full text out of EBSCOhost, but I can't seem to get the Wikipedia Library version of that resource to barf up old TIME issues, only recent ones. FWIW my article had photos in it, if yours does go look at Getty Images and you might find more photos there. Can't use them but they make a nice external link for readers to go look. --Krelnik (talk) 11:56, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I was able to access EBSCOhost through my university's library, but the website only let me browse back to April 2014. I'll ask at WP:RX. XOR'easter (talk) 17:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The good news is that per their advice, I was able to get the Time story through WP:TWL (and dealing with more website clunkiness — the public URL was useless, but the EBSCOhost "advanced search" eventually gave me what I needed). The less-good news is that it didn't have much about Galli-Shohat herself, being mostly about her nephew Shostakovich. But with enough references to establish her basic biographical details and a solid case for WP:PROF by way of her APS Fellowship, I went ahead and moved the article to mainspace. Thanks once again to everyone who's given advice and/or made edits! XOR'easter (talk) 17:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't have subscription access to this New York Times article. I found a different obituary of her with almost the same date, so I'm guessing the NYT article is also her obituary, but it would be good to confirm that, add as a reference if so, and check whether it has any additional information about her. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:37, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

David Eppstein & XOR'easter I have access to the NYT through my public library's subscription to ProQuest Historical Newspapers. Yes it the same person. Still no birth date. I added a sentence about where she died with citation. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 19:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

1880; not a reliable source; foiled by the grass. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/139220110/nadia-g-shohat --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:39, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Looks like 1879 to me. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:48, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Concur. Most odd. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:13, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Both the 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census says she was born in 1880 in Russia but gives no exact date. Family Search has the record but it requires a free sign-in to view. --Krelnik (talk) 05:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Based on that 1940 census you could use the template {{birth based on age as of date}} to get this (edit this comment to see syntax): 1879 or 1880 --Krelnik (talk) 11:31, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Since we're talking about Russia prior to 1918, could there be a calendar shift issue? XOR'easter (talk) 22:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Nora Mohler

Next in the list of American Physical Society women Fellows from the age of poor documentation:

• Draft:Nora Mohler (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

If anyone is good at scaring up old college records, figuring out her history at Smith would be helpful. It's possible that she joined the faculty as an instructor or junior lecturer of some sort and then later received her PhD there. XOR'easter (talk) 22:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Found this which has a birth and death date, but not reliable. It also states she was head of the Physics Department at Smith College. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Oddly, the death date there differs from that in this notice by a few days. Does anyone have access to Women in Chemistry and Physics: A Bibliographic Sourcebook (1993) or American National Biography: Volume 1 (1999)? XOR'easter (talk) 00:56, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

It looks like the November 29 death date is accurate, based on this obit. - MapleSoy (talk) 03:36, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I had a suspicion that an obituary was printed a few days after her death and the family genealogy website carelessly used the publication date. It's possible you've found the exact obituary I had hypothesized. XOR'easter (talk) 16:14, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Anjelica Bette Fellini problem

My latest actress article Anjelica Bette Fellini has an ongoing age dispiute. I just want to leave it as unknown, but a random person keeps putting in a date that makes her 15 years old. One of the references puts her at least 20 years of age, The Face.com reference Her persistence paid off: at age 20, the actress performed on stage herself in The Phantom of the Opera. This person is ignoring this, also not attempting to use a reference, and reverses anything I put. My apologies for approaching Women in Red, as didn't know where else to do. I would most be relieved if this could be resolved in an adult fashion. James Kevin McMahon (talk) 19:11, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

All we can do is talk to them, and watchlist the page to revert dubious edits, all of which Ivve done. You're right to bring it here. (Oh - and find a well sourced dob.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

And I see the problem - the web littered with unreliable sources giving the 2004 dob, unless they give the (more credible) 1994 dob. www.famousbirthdays.com/people/anjelica-bette-fellini.html vs https://allfamous.org/people/anjelica-bette-fellini-20041126.html --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:23, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Worth noting that it is also a timeworn thing (who knows why) that there are anonymous users that just like to alter dates with no rhyme or reason to it. Since this is a living person I think Tagishsimon's decision to just take her birthdate out entirely was probably a good one. There are arguments (identity theft and so on) for not posting an exact birthdates for living people, even if you do find a good source. Birth year is enough for most purposes, unless of course its clear the subject is fine with everyone knowing their birthdate. --Krelnik (talk) 19:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Katya Cengel

This came up over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women writers. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 00:11, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Little bit of a rant

So, it looks like two of my images, Sándor Vay and La Esmeralda, are going to fail FPC because of failure to reach quorum. This isn't a huge deal, I can renominate them in a month.

But I hold myself to a 50% female requirement pretty strongly, and, while I'm still ahead for the year (7 out of 12), I could use some suggestions right now, because I have two images I'm planning to do, but don't yet feel super-passionate about. Mind, Hazel MacKaye and Ethel Smyth were two of my recent images, so I might have a high bar just now. Currently my queue has Fanny Fern - not a bad choice, but not the best photo - and a very damaged photo of Mary Louise Booth that will take at least a week, which is not ideal when one has motivation issues from the quorum thing. I wasn't planning to do the next bout of research this soon. As for the others on my list - Elleanor Eldridge is awesome, but I give her a 50% chance at FPC, which is a little lower than I want just now, and Inter-Allied Woman's Conference has my work stuck on another computer I can't access right now. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 13:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I started an article on Gilda Darthy this week, found existing nice image in Commons; I also started one on Nelly Martyl this week, and used a gritty image I found, BUT there are some lovely images of her in those Reutlinger arrays on Commons (five arrays seem to feature her, including this one):

Btv1b8596950n-p027

Maybe that will help? I love your work! Penny Richards (talk) 13:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Nelly Martyl looks just about perfect! And the Reutlinger array is high enough resolution to pass FPC (I jumped into crop tool, threw a rough crop around the last image on the page - my favourite - and it came in about 1500x2200, which is fine) I also love Gilda Darthy, but I'll have to chek if that image is available higher resolution. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 13:48, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Found it at higher resolution, but figuring out how to extract it is hard. [4] or [5] - page 30. If anyone is good at extracting images from weird file formats, go for it. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 14:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

It's not a biography, but I started an article on Kee Mar College, a women's school, a while back. I don't know/have a specific photo in mind, but I am hopeful there are probably public domain images considering it was open from 1853–1911. Thanks for all your efforts! TJMSmith (talk) 14:11, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@TJMSmith: I don't know, I think the lead image is fairly decent. One might also consider [6] or, if you can excuse the trees, [7] Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 16:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for uploading that image! It greatly improves the article. TJMSmith (talk) 16:51, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@TJMSmith: Found an even better one... Wish it was a bit higher resolution, but... Anyway, article now has three four good-quality illustrations, which is probably a good start. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 18:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Incidentally, I know you weren't asking for this, but I added a support vote to the Esmeralda image - hopefully that will be enough to get it to quorum. Now if I could only get my hands on a copy of the CD at a reasonable price... --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:14, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 18:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Adam Cuerden, I have been working my way, albeit slowly, through the women of Alcatraz this month. Yesterday, I found this page for the National Parks Service which gives a lot of images made by Ilka Hartmann. I'm wondering about this image of Stella Leach, who I'm working on. It says "Images credited to NPS without any copyright symbol are public domain" and I see no such marking on it. I also went to Hartmann's website. Though lots of images of Alcatraz there show she holds a copyright, there are none of Leach. Not sure if it is of interest for your purposes, but I like that it isn't just a standard portrait. SusunW (talk) 14:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Nelly Martyl.

Leach next, I suppose. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.4% of all FPs} 03:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Kee Mar College restoration

Doris Weatherford

Doris Weatherford is a professor and author who has written a great deal on women's suffrage and women's history. No article yet on Wikipedia that I can find. FloridaArmy (talk) 21:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I have created a draft at Draft:Doris Weatherford. MarkZusab (talk) 12:45, 28 August 2020 (UTC)