Paul Siebert

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Welcome! Hello, Paul Siebert, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Arnoutf (talk) 20:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Your opinion

Hi Paul Siebert, I am writing to you because I have read your opinion on my AE request about the user "My very best wishes".[1] I worked for about 6 years on the Italian Wikipedia, I mainly deal with Eastern European topics. On the English Wikipedia I made few edits, because, unfortunately, I don't speak English very well, and I can only write short sentences, otherwise I would force other editors to correct my grammar, consequently I also know little about the community (I'm starting to know some admins and some users these days) and all the internal democratic mechanisms (such as requests AE or RFCs).

I am writing to you because I really need a third party opinion, because what is happening to me on the issues indicated in the AE request has never happened to me before. On the Italian Wikipedia it would have been impossible to remove dozen controversial contents in the same article, full of reliable sources, for "Undue weight". It could have happened on one piece of content, or maybe two, but all those removals by a single user would have quickly attracted an administrator to block the operation. Such behavior would be readily recognized as suspicious.

Perhaps in the Italian Wikipedia we give too much importance to controversial issues compared to the English one? For example, the user writes: "his views on various political events that had happen many years ago are unimportant". Is such an answer acceptable? Is that what it says in the BLP rules? In the BLP rules[2] I also read: "Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone."
Yet, for the first time in 6 years, despite having multiple reliable sources, which support a certain thing, while reporting its content without adding a single word to the RS, I am continually blocked. I have the impression of being made fun of, practically I am unable to enter new content with accusations to which, seriously, I do not know what to answer. What is the answer to all "Undue weight" even for pretty serious facts? I can only answer that for me they are not considered "Undue weight", but at this point how is it resolved? Does this user want to push me to do an RFC for each line of text I want to include on Wikipedia? I find myself in the absurd situation in which I cannot even report what I find written in the RS, because it is removed for "wrong narrative".

Excuse me if I ask you this question but, also seeing that you have more than 20k edits, maybe you have the experience in such disputies to be able to give me advice. Sometimes seriously, I feel like I've entered a parallel dimension here on the English Wikipedia, and I do not understand if it is simply me who am breaking some rules (perhaps due to problems of fully understanding English)--Mhorg (talk) 22:20, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. You should keep in mind that English Wikipedia is huge, and different topics are being edited by different people. Accordingly, topic-specific behavioural standards may differ significantly. I myself faced similar problems: when I started editing some Christianity related topic, that immediately led to a conflict, despite the fact that I did exactly what I am doing in other history related topics, where my contributions are seen quite positively by majority of users. Therefore, it would be more correct to conclude that the problem is with the users who opposed you. One of them has already been topic banned, and the appeal was unsuccessful. With regard to another one, that is a complicated case, and Ii am going to address to the ArbCom to resolve the situation with his problematic behaviour.

I see some problems with you edits, although they by no means violate our policy. We must be extremely careful when we write about Navalny, because our non-professionalism may have a negative impact on his reputation and make him more vulnerable (taking into account his current situation, that may be, literally, lethal). Therefore, a correct approach would be either to write highly professionally or not to write at all. In connection to that, any references to his nationalism and xenophobic statements should be placed into a proper context. Thus, it would be necessary to make it clear that Navalny's political views are changing with time, and to discriminate his statements made by him in the past from his current views. Therefore, a question of due weight and a question of a proper context should be discussed on a talk page, and only after some consensus is achieved can we add something to the article space. That is my opinion, and I cannot rule out a possibility that some information reverted by MVBW is really marginally relevant. Just think about that.

By having said that I do not mean that the inability to reach consensus in those discussion was your fault.

I am trying to avoid editing the articles that describe recent events, so I am not sure I myself will ever edit Navalny related articles. I am just sharing my thoughts with you.--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:31, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

What would be the difference between ArbCom and an AE request, if I may ask you?
Speaking of Navalny, I understand your point of view, but the controversial parts are practically squeezed to the bottom of the article and occupy a very marginal part of the text. I think it is impossible to say that the article is unbalanced (towards the negative, indeed! If anything it is towards the positive). Plus, I don't think it's our role to save or condemn Navalny. The facts remain facts, what he has accomplished for 7 years of pro-nationalist political views cannot be removed "because he has changed". If anything, it can be specified that over time his political vision has changed (but this is not already done by the article, where simply over the years the topics he deals are changed?)
Specifically, would you advise me to open RFCs? is it correct to open several of them? Does each RFC last a long time or do they usually resolve quickly? Because really, I'm thinking of removing the RSS Feed plugin, every time I see a notification I get stressed.
Thank you for your opinion.--Mhorg (talk) 08:49, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

All information is on the ArbCom page. Arbitrators analyze each case in details, and their decision is final. However, they accept a case only if sufficient evidences have been presented to demonstrate that the case does deserve their attention, and that all other means to resolve the conflict proved to be unsuccessful.

It is always good to open RFC if you have a disagreement that cannot be resolved at a talk page.

I am not sure I understand what do you mean under the "RSS Feed plugin", but, in general, it is normal to be stressed when you edit such a hot area as EE related topics. Welcome to English Wikipedia :) That is how we are working here :)--Paul Siebert (talk) 15:18, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind and thorough answers. As for the wikihounding cases I reported, I asked Swarm what he thought of them[3], but he hasn't answered yet. I am not sure if I am giving the "proper weight" to this stuff, but the user has also begun to meddle in discussions on my tp with other users.[4] It's normal? I am exaggerating?--Mhorg (talk) 17:27, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Again, if I were an uninvolved admin, I would have come to the same conclusion as Swarm, and that is not because there is no DE or wikihounding, but because your evidences are not too convincing. I could give you some advises, but I am pretty sure my talk page is being carefully watched by the same user.

Regarding meddling, you may let this user know their interference is not welcome (if that is your talk page), otherwise that is acceptable (unless you have some strong evidences you were not interested to know their opinion on that matter.--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:55, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Anyway, if you have some additional information about questionable behaviour of that user, you may post it here. I'll take a look.--Paul Siebert (talk) 21:23, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

About the Following, also an admin noticed the behaviour of the user.[5] Moreover, I find this other fact really unfair:

• Gordimalo\LauraWilliamson collaborates on an article with My very best wishes[6]
• Gordimalo\LauraWilliamson tries to get me banned by accusing me of sockpuppetry instead he is banned for sockpuppetry [7][8]
• Gordimalo\Beanom comes out of nowhere and sides again with My very best wishes (Beanom was clearly a sockpuppet)[9]
• Gordimalo\Beanom is investigated[10]
• My very best wishes does everything to save him,[11][12] even by contacting the admin personally.[13]
• PailSimon intervenes in a discussion on the same article and goes against My very best wishes[14]
• My very best wishes intervenes against PailSimon in an SPI[15]

Could it all be a coincidence? To me it all seems part of a plan to carry on their own personal POV-pushing battle on Wikipedia. If this is his way of acting and planning, I dare not imagine what kind of actions he has done on the whole encyclopedia. I have neither the knowledge nor the time to carry out an investigation of this type. I don't mean to have certainties, but strong doubts are legitimate at this point. (Could you please ping me when you answer me?)--Mhorg (talk) 08:16, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

This too can be interesting: speaking of what I call "whitewashing operations", a user came to write me on the talk page about what the user did on the article of a website linked with the Ukrainian secret services.[16]--Mhorg (talk) 09:20, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

About the AE request: closed with no action.[17]--Mhorg (talk) 12:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Mhorg (pinging per your request), I am not surprised that your AE report was declined. I expected that. The user we are talking about is polite and cautious, and all what he is doing looks like good faith mistakes. At least, that is what an average admin usually concludes from each separate case. Moreover, I myself thought the activity of that user was directed primarily against me, whereas other users have no problems with him. However, your case demonstrates that that the problem is more serious than I thought before. As I already explained, it would be naive to expect the admins at AE will take actions against that user: they are just amateurs who can barely devote more than 30 minutes to read all diffs and explanations. Remember, they know nothing about the subject of the dispute, but they see that user behaves politely and has a very long and clean history.

That is why arbitration is the only option. To understand how it works, try to analyse several recent cases, and read WP:EEML. That will give you a clue which reports are usually accepted by the arbitrators, and which are rejected. That work may require some time, but it is still less time consuming than long and fruitless disputes with that user. And, keep in mind that your opponent has a habit to declare he is retired/semi-retire/stopped editing, but he may change his mind at any moment.

Your information about sockpuppets is interesting. As you probably know, the same user accused me of socpuppetry and said I was "defending" some sock (although I just asked who was the master of that sock). Taking into account that the very same user who accused others of "defending" a sock, is himself a defender of a sock who was supporting his own POV, all of that looks especially bad. Keep in mind, however, that that user may edit his own old statements (similar top what he did in the above described case) to conceal his questionable statements, the evidences should be presented in a form of original diffs.

I am thinking about filing the Arbitration request, and if you want, you may add yourself as a party). Each party has 500 words to present their evidences. These evidences must contain the most striking examples of questionable misbehaviour, and they are needed just to convince ArbCom to accept the case. If you want to do that, try to think about the most convincing evidences that you will present (no need to discuss it with me). If you have no time or desire to participate in that process, that is ok. Frankly, I myself am not ready to do it right now, I am somewhat busy in RL, and I need more time to collect evidences. --Paul Siebert (talk) 20:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Another case of blatant manipulation. In the AE request he defends himself in this way from my accusations of whitewashing the nationalist positions of that politician: "He say that I want to remove all "controversial issues", but I never proposed or tried it. [...] For example , his "nationalism" is now described in the 2nd paragraph of this section. I did not remove it, and I did not try."[18] Now that the AE request has ended, he returns to remove the part about nationalism, right in the 2nd paragraph, with the motivation: "this is all very old stuff (his views about that have significantly changed - see talk). This only disracts attention from things that are really important, especially in context of recent"[19]. So he lied to get out of the trouble he got into during the AE request. This user is systematically manipulative.--Mhorg (talk) 11:39, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Mhorg, will keep that in mind. Interestingly, the removed text clearly links the past event with recent actions of the Russian government against Navalny, so the edit summary is obviously false. As you can see, I am not active now because I am busy in RL, but I am definitely going to return to that in future. --Paul Siebert (talk) 15:02, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Paul, I haven't written to you in a long time. This morning I had the nice surprise: the user reported me in an SPI.[20]--Mhorg (talk) 08:48, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

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