User talk:Khoikhoi/Archived

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Message

You put the following message on my talkpage under Tombseye section, is it related to that subject or you are refering to another issue?

• Well, please be aware that you can't just copy content direclty from another website. You have to put it in your own words. What is the latest version of the article? Khoikhoi 06:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC) Kiumars

Re:

I'm going to nominate it for deletion later today the tags were just a quickie, very busy now. The article name is wrong, the content is unencyclopedic and pov, and there are no references for obvious reasons...-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 15:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Pashtuns problemos

Sorry for the late reply, but I got swamped with work. KPBotany apparently had a problem with all of the new pictures, but I had no problem with the family picture myself as it looked okay to me. The boy is wearing a hat typical of Sindhis (culturally speaking) and thus Haider does not like it. I figure at this point the pictures are the least of the worries so handle it as you see fit. I'm gonna try to fix stuff when I get a chance later today. Ciao. Tombseye 18:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

ArmenianNY

This user has been warned and he is still attacking people such as me and another Turkish wikipedian, Please see Battle of Sardarapat "Who is this idiot? Sardarapat battle took part on May 26 Armenia declared independence on May 28.How could Ottoman forces attack independet Armenia prior to Armenia's independence. Stop you idiotic rv)" he was insulting another person. Nareklm 23:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay by far this is worser, [1] Nareklm 23:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Another one, [2] Nareklm 23:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ararat arev using new account,User:Mashis Nareklm 23:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Also this, User:Gevork7 Nareklm 23:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Hey

Hey Khoikhoi! I'm still busy with the MBA, but happy to see that all the usual controversies and fights continue here at Wikipedia! I actually missed it. I will try to start again! My fellow Turks need passionate people like me here in WP :) Cheers, --Gokhan 10:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thx for barnstar

Thank you Khoikhoi. It's my first here by the way. As for the disagreements, as George S. Patton (ôr rather, George C. Scott) said; "I don't understand these young men who die so prematurely. There are still so many wars to be won." :) Cretanforever 15:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

did you read this trash:)

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg176812.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fadix (talk • contribs) 18:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Re: Huseyin Celil The text I used for Huseyin Celil belongs to me personally. I have a website launched at http://www.huseyincelil.com, you can see from domain registry that i own it and the pages over there belongs to me. Accordingly, it does not have any copyright issues at all. Can you please contact me. Thanks ~~bcelik~~

Protection template

Ah yes, the "v" is what I was forgetting. It's always the most obvious with template names, isn't it? Thanks for the fix, I was heading back to do it myself. Teke ^(talk) 02:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's main page worthy, short of heads of state or other such figures deaths are not usually put in In the news. The recent deaths link should be good enough; it's on Larry King at the moment because it's a slow news day :) Teke ^(talk) 02:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Disclaimer

Baristarim:{ That's exactly what I was thinking :) I think that info (or its equivalent in the Turkey article) should be merged to either under minorities or some other section. Is about something else (probably about the minorities section), as he continued to edit the article and keep the disclaimer. It discloses that FACT that there is no ethic questions in census or it is by law forbidden to discriminate people with ethnic background. Information (disclaimer) given to inform the reader that most of the information is secondary source and not related with Turkish state resources. Being in secondary source, not generated by the state ("census") is an important fact. If France can have the disclaimer, Demographics of France I do not see why User:Khoikhoi rejects it. --OttomanReference 03:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

What is the source of "I disagree that the o.." The page is not about a general demographics. It is not about ethnic background distribution of any random area. It is about the "Republic of Turkey". The position of "Republic of Turkey" (or "France" on the other side) is not an undue weight. It stands under Demographics of France. Same reasons apply to Turkey. Thanks. OttomanReference 03:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Your response feels like you have a bias. I guess we know how hard life for kurds that "Turkish government's view on Turkey's demographics" needs to be something that has to be an article. I do not see such remarks on French page or people claiming "French government's view on Paris's demographics". I wish there is a magic wand that will help you see how funny this remark is. Thanks. --OttomanReference 04:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Europas is here

The nationalistic vandal from the german wikipedia is here, he is editing under user:Székely Attila. Please bock him indefinetly, thanks. --Öcsi 13:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Cretan Turks

Hi Khoikhoi, I'm not sure I understand the motivation for your reverts today on Cretan Turks. Miskin's edits were basically just a revert to a longstanding stable version of the intro accepted along general lines by both Greek and Turkish editors (compare Miskin's with Baristarim's version of 5 Jan), which had very recently been unilaterally changed and replaced with a very clearly inferior version by Cretanforever [3]. If anybody here ought to be admonished to garner consensus before making sweeping changes, it should be him. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about the tinkering with the details of "were forced to leave" vs. "left", which was Miskin's second edit [4]. You could have reverted just that if you disagreed, although even in that edit there was something well argued and worth keeping (they may have been "forced" to leave but not in the beginning "forced by the Greek state", which wasn't yet around in 1896). But instead, you chose to blanket revert to Cretanforever's version, which was clearly inferior on several counts. Poor English, obliterating the link to the Cretan Muslims article, deleting a well sourced statement about the Greek ethnic/linguistic origins, instead introducing an unsourced OR passage about their Turkish culture. This version was indeed a product of unilateral POV pushing, it had been objected against by editors as unnationalistic as Macrakis ([5]), and it had broken a version that had in fact been stable along general lines over months and across multiple edits by both Greek and Turkish editors. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I certainly won't object to a merger of the two articles, or to a rename to whatever title you prefer. And I know Miskin can be irritating with his blustering aggressive style... But that all doesn't change the fact that Cretanforever's version is of miserable quality (and that he has been reverting under false edit summaries today...) :-( Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

My RFA

Thank You, Khoikhoi/Archived for your Support! Thank you for your support in my RfA, which closed at 111 / 1 / 2. I am humbled and rather shocked to see such kind comments and for it to reach WP:100. Please feel free to leave a note if I have made a mistake or if you need anything, I will start out slow and tackle the harder work once I get accustomed to the tools. Thank you once more, I simply cannot express in words my gratitude.

...fly on littlewing. ~ Arjun 19:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Turkish names of Greek Iocations

Dear Khoikhoi,

I think modern Turkish names of the Greek locations should be stated rather than Ottoman names. First of all no one can understand Ottoman script. Also, I have doubts about names written in Ottoman script, since writing in Ottoman is very hard, thus, sometimes same word can be written in various ways. However, only one of them is correct. So, how can we be sure those names are correctly written? Although one can say he/she writes correctly there is a great probability of mistake. Also, the families, who came from Greece during the population exchange, simply use the names written in modern script. Furthermore, Turks who live inside of Greek borders use modern script either. I think that we should use modern script rather than using Ottoman. Or at least modern Turkish names should be stated with the Ottoman names together. For example; Lesbos (Greek: Lesvos (Λέσβος), Ottoman Turkish: مدللى, Turkish: Midilli) CrashMex 23:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

CrashMex the non-Greek names are provided for historical reasons and not to promote land claims. Miskin 00:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Look Khoikhoi I'll pour some water on my wine this time and ignore your provokative and clearly biased behaviour towards me. I know you've been holding a grudge against me on the specific article, but you need to get over it and be neutral. You must understand that by supporting a POV in order to take an action against me, you only enforce the POV-pusher continue his practice, and therefore make it harder to reach a consensus. This was proved within minutes when Gonzo removed the 'disputed' tag and made some comments in Talk about how wikipedia is not in position to decide on its own articles or something along those lines. Miskin 00:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Miskin, I can not understand the relation between modern Turkish names and land claims. The thing you said is really provocative. If I had a land claim over an independent and ally state, I would not be here at Wikipedia. Also, I strongly encourage writing Greek names to Turkish locations and I do not have any fears of Greek land claims over Turkey. Besides, it is very doubtful to say those Ottoman names are correctly written if they are not taken from an official source. CrashMex 22:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, what’s your point about this issue if you consider the reasons I stated at the top. I think the best way would be like this, at least for now: Lesbos (Greek: Lesvos (Λέσβος), Ottoman Turkish: مدللى, Turkish: Midilli) CrashMex 22:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't saying that you personally are trying to lay land claims, I just don't see a reason to have two Turkish names, or two Greek names for that matter in any Greco-Turkish article. Miskin 14:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cussing

Hey Khoikhoi, i have a question are we allowed to curse? like for example "..Stop fucking reverting my edits" just wondering since its not an personal attack, im starting to get frustrated with users here. Nareklm 01:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh lol, but it helps me maintain my stress online heh. Nareklm 01:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

possible sock puppet of User:Kgeza67

I'm no expert in these things, but is it possible that Special:Contributions/Lokimoki is a sock-puppet of User:Hunor3/User:Kgeza67? Thought I'd put it to your attention. - TheMightyQuill 01:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate usage of images

These users confirm that they can use images on wikipedia but it doesn't state they own the images, they use images from other websites and claim it as there own, for instance, Image:Kish_Church.jpg is from [http://www.un-az.org/undp/news/newimg/prspsheki2big.jpg ] and way more images i can name. Nareklm 03:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

So there is no relevance at all so it is a copy vio. Nareklm 03:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay it is a copyvio did you see the site i gave you? there not the owners of that site, there the owners of euro caspian. Nareklm 03:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

By the way Ararat arev is back, User:Ururus Nareklm 03:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

AdilBaguirov

There are somethings you should know about this person. I did a Google search on him and I figured out why he operates with so much original research and POV. That is what he does. He writes articles full of historical inaccuracies on several sites related to Azerbaijan and even runs his own website, where he frequently refers to Iranian Azerbaijan as "Southern Azerbaijan". I've been trying to tell you this whole time that this guy has been operating with POV and OR.Azerbaijani 05:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey Khoikhoi this should close it look, [6] and Dacy69 added that link same website [7] Adil has been around for a few years the guy is an Ultra-nationalist on Armenian and Persian related subjects he hates everything about us. "It reminds me how some Azerbaijanis held in high regard such people as Stepan Shaumyan and others, who were squarely anti-Azerbaijani." [8]. "Adil Baguirov, a known and paid Azeri radical nationalist and a government agent appeared on Wikipedia after a long slumber on December 10, on that day he made edits on Armenia and Urartu articles. The exact two articles that were edited by Dacy69 within the past few hours supporting the exact same pov. Another Azeri user shows up out of nowhere supporting the other Azeri's same pov? Their wording is pretty much identical as well." Nareklm 05:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Also not to mention this, [9] i suspect he is a sock puppet of adil to since he never logs on anymore and he seems to hate Armenians, i know the hate theres two kinds. Baku87 obviously added his own name, than later registered with his new user name Adil. Nareklm 06:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)\

Yes, I concur. He has government affiliation because he was the first to create a website about Azerbaijan when then internet first became main stream in 1995. He is involved in several nationalistic topics, and writes historically inaccurate articles, mostly for Azeri websites. Here is his website: [10] Look at this article which he wrote (In Russian): [11] The title reads Appropriation of cultural and historical heritage of Azerbaijan by Iranian and Armenian governments: example of great Azerbaijani poet Nizami Ganjavi (Nezami from Ganjeh). Here is where he has compiled a list of articles, all of which support the Republic of Azerbaijan and criticise its "enemies", Armenia and Iran for example. I have continuously said on talk pages that this user uses OR and POV, and his website and his articles all show that this is what he does, he does original research! Also, I am sure that socks are being used.

Here you can read about Adil Baguirov: [12] Note this: Adil graduated from the University of Southern California (USC) in 1999 with degrees in Business Administration and International Relations. Obviously, he is no historian, yet everything he tries to add into Wikipedia is his personal original research. This is against Wikipedia rules and policies! Just type in Adil Baguirov into Google and you can see the articles he writes, all of which are POV and OR and have no place on Wikipedia. He is obviously not neutral, and has some sort of agenda here on Wikipedia.Azerbaijani 06:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijani, "He has government affiliation because he was the first to create a website about Azerbaijan when then internet first became main stream in 1995", do you realize how baseless such argument is? Secondly, you missed the updated information, Adil also holds PhD in International Relations from Moscow State Institute of International Affairs (MGIMO) of the Foreign Ministry of Russian Federation. So if you're able to confront his edits with references, do so, otherwise, the thread above looks nothing other than personal attack and _targeting of a person. Now let me ask you a simple question, based on your logic, when you're involved in consistent propaganda and edit warring on Azerbaijani sites, should we similarly assume that you work for Iranian government? Atabek 10:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijani, do you have any proof that Dr. Baguirov serves for the government of Azerbaijan and everything that he does here is at the direct order of the Azerbaijani state? If yes, be kind to present it. If not, I would call you to refrain from groundless statements and personal judgements about other contributors. Millions of people have personal websites and private portals. Are they all governmental employees? Do you realize how ridiculous your statement is? And even if so, are civil servants and governmental officers prohibited to contribute to Wikipedia? If your judgement is based on the content of Dr. Baguirov's insertions, then similarly I can suggest that you are hired by Mr. Ayatolla Ala Akbar Khomenei to advance here Shia and pan-Persian propaganda. Do I do it? No. Why? Because that would sound tremendously ridiculous. I strongly call everyone, including yourself, to concentrate on the topics of discussion rather than diverting it to irrelevant directions. Besides, can you support your complaint about Dr. Baguirov's using the term of "South Azerbaijan" instead of "Iranian Azerbaijan" with references to the internationally and scholarly recognized term of the region? Is there any document that says that the official name of the region should be no otherwise but Iranian Azerbaijan (other than Persian scholars' papers)? Similarly, Russian experts can complain that Azerbaijan Republic should be called "Russian Azerbaijan", just like some Armenian politicians often call Azerbaijan "Eastern Armenia" (completely omitting the word 'Azerbaijan'). Azerbaijan is Azerbaijan, without any attachment of another state's affiliation. And the terms north, south, east and west sound more "geographically" than Russian, Iranian or anything else. --Batabat 15:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Who the fuck is this guy? he comes out of no where and starts supporting these guys they are sock puppets! Nareklm 15:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I could explain you personally who the f I am and where exactly I am coming from, but I am not sure this will help you in your efforts to support your statements. My knowledge tells me that it is the best time to turn to the administrators and request to ban this user for employing a non-academic language. --Batabat 08:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

Another sock puppet that pops out of no where to give the impression that Adil Baguirov has support... Its strange that all these people pop out of nowhere right when Adil needs them too!Azerbaijani 18:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

am I not surprized that two ideologically motivated users carry on their vendetta against me. For your info, the term "South Azerbaijan" has been widely accepted by the scholarly community, including by Encyclopedia Iranica -- and Khoikhoi knows that (a link to the article was provided last year). Moreover, if Iran can label its provinces as "East" and "West" Azerbaijan, and thus initiating the geographic distinction, then certainly Azerbaijan, and all Azerbaijanis, have a full right to refer to themselves and their native land with geo-oriented labels. As of the rest usual barrage of character assassination and insults, the administrators should take action against those who repeatedly harass me in this forum. --AdilBaguirov 18:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The only person here who is ideologically motivated here is you. You personal write your POV ideologically motivated articles and have them published on Azeri sights, including Azembassy, which is a government website that promotes historical revisionism!Azerbaijani 18:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The only persons who promotes revisionism are those of my "anonymous" critics, who seize on the fact that I am man enough to speak on my own behalf, speak clearly and without the need to hide behind various nicknames, as well as pretend to be who I am not. If you cannot match that, and have to hide, then remain in peace. My publications in international media well beyond my country of origin are available both in leading newspapers and in specialized journals and magazines, as well as in a form of a monograph (that's a book, for those who don't know). Meanwhile, my academic qualifications, are both certified (as in recognized) by leading academic institutions in the world, and are obviously more than enough to be able to counter the propaganda, misinformation, hate and insults of certain ideologically (and perhaps financially) motivated critics. If anyone has any proof about either sockpuppetry or government (? although not sure how would that be bad, since history belongs to all people, not just to Non-government), then please present it. Don't forget to make a full disclosure about yourselves too -- that's how things work in civilized world. Otherwise, if you have nothing, and have been both sanctioned before and otherwise found to be lying, then you are not very credible, it's time for you to change nicks one more time. I shall also thank all the websites which carry my articles as obviously, despite being written long time ago, my critics have still been unable to provide factual criticism, resorting instead to cheap shots and character assassination. And withstanding the test of time is the best compliment any writer can get. --AdilBaguirov 19:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Ip usage or what? [13] Nareklm 07:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Abşeron

Regarding that article, the other name gets more hits in Google by the way. Nareklm 06:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

There both two different words the current one is from an Azeri written word since this is English wikipedia its better to change it plus if you search the Azeri term more Azeri sources or in there language pops up which we don't want since this is English wikipedia and more accuracies with the other word. Nareklm 06:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, this is English Wikipedia. ş is not a letter in the English alphabet. I suggested moving the whole page but no one is listening. The page should be moved to Abseron or Absheron.Azerbaijani 18:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh ok, I just assumed that only English letters should have been used.Azerbaijani 16:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Kurdish categories

Hi. You left a 'welcome' for me which i failed to answer; Thanks (and sorry late).

I see many attempts to delete Kurdish categories and find this distressing. And I see you making reasonable edits, so I asking you what to do about this. I don't want to get into fight about it, but also don't like to see edits I make removed just because people against Kurds. Thank you.--Diyarbakir 07:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey. On what pages are you being reverted? Do they provide an explanation for their reverts? Perhaps you could make some comments on the relevant talk pages. BTW, shouldn't your username be "Diyarbakır" or "Amed"? Khoikhoi 07:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I see Baristarim has been removing edits I made adding categories like Cities in Turkish Kurdistan. The category is now empty. He and Cool Cat keep saying *it's not a country* -- no it not, no one claiming it is. I find it discouraging that such users get away with taking such biased stands. They empty categories while review going on. They get as much as they can deleted. I think major articles have lots of people watching them, but many, many articles and subjects have only few people reading them. And these, which ones that set wikipedia apart from paper encyclopedias, are at mercy of bad actors.

I don't live in Diyarbakır, my grandmother did. I didn't want to deal with the non standard character. I think I can add it to my sig; will try before I save this.

thanks, Diyarbakır 13:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Qazakh

Khoi, I think you need to mediate this. It's really getting out of control. Adil keeps attacking me stating that I've been "stalling and sabotaging the constructive work" of the article. I'm getting tired, quite frankly of Adil's personal attacks on me especially when I've made a compromise that favors the Azeri editors. -- Aivazovsky 21:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

There is no compromise whatsoever on the part of Aivazovsky, he has repeated the same unsubstantiated POV, which also contravenes all other evidence at hand. Plus he has misrepresented nearly all maps posted, and keeps making up dates that suit his POV -- first 1931, now 1927. Exhaustive facts and maps have been provided by several users, and authoritative experts have spoken clearly on the matter, all provided on the Talk page. Meanwhile Aivazovsky does appear to be stalling the process and has been doing it since August 2006 for some reason. --AdilBaguirov 04:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

We had some discussion previously and I don't see what compromise Aivozovsky made. I checked with Calgary University - there is no much information on Andersen whose information is used on page 'Qazakh'.--Dacy69 06:43, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi.. So how are you doing? I am sorry I couldn't get back to you for your note ten days ago about the place names in alternate languages. I suppose that any changes to the established standard would need a much greater concensus and consultations, so I am ok with the status quo. Baristarim 22:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Request

Could you put this proposed addition [14] into the Ali Khamenei page? There is nothing controversial about it. The Behnam 22:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Requesting Deletion of test page

Hi,
Could you please delete List of mountains in Iran/test page which I created to save the incomplete template I created earlier, Thanks - Marmoulak 23:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

PKK and LTTE

My idea for articles about attacks by terrorist groups is to use the term "List of NAME attacks". NAME is the name of terrorist group. It should be a standard name of category in Wikipedia. If you try to find an analogue of PKK, we should remember LTTE.

LTTE is the Sri Lankan version of PKK. They are similar; one can say the major differences are their countries and names. I can give evidence for this. What I was trying to change was the name "Turkish-Kurdish conflict" for a more proper name, not the article's text. If there is two identical twin groups, names should be similar. If you call one article “Terrorist attacks by LTTE/PKK Sri Lanka Version", another one as "Causalities of Kurdish-Turkish conflict", it is not objective. I think names - excluding the word "terror"-, should be changed into "attacks by LTTE/PKK Sri Lanka Version", and "Attacks by LTTE/PKK Turkey Version". (My name using the word terror for this article is not good). Former name was "Civilian casualties caused by PKK"; it was not founded as objective. (But, in LTTE and ETA articles this name is used and it is not founded as against objectivity.) Now, the name is "Causalities of Turkish-Kurdish conflict" which is not objective.

"Turkish-Kurdish conflict" name is not for the article names because there is not an ethnic conflict. Do you have any proof for this? There is a Kurdish problem in Turkey. PKK, a Marxist group supported by some Kurds attacks Army, Kurdish feudal forces that support government and civilians. This is not a ethnic conflict because in Turkey, there is not a political tension between Turkish and Kurdish speaking groups. They make marriages; many Kurds live in areas with huge Turkish population. There are Kurdish speaking ministers, i. e. Mehdi Eker. To name this problem as a "Turkish-Kurdish conflict" is not objective, it is pure PKK propaganda. For example in India there was "Muslim-Hindu conflict", people were killing each other. It is not the same as Kurdish problem in Turkey. (See Mustafa Akyol’s book on Kurdish problem in Turkey.)

My proof for PKK/LTTE similarity is :

Kurdish terrorist organization Partiya Karkaren Kurdistan (PKK-Kurdistan Workers’ Party) and Tamil terrorist organization Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), though oceans apart, share many common features. In fact the two organizations mirror one another in many fundamental aspects such as their leadership, methods employed, external aid sources, involvement in trafficking, and child soldiers.

The most striking similarity is between those of PKK’s leader Abdullah Ocalan and LTTE leader Velupillai Prabhakaran. Both are in their 50s and come from poor families, yet both managed to attend university. Both began their careers aiming to foment Marxists revolutions in their native lands. When they started their respective organizations in the 1970s, both liquidated rival organizations in existence.

While both the PKK and LTTE have murdered the very ethnic people for whose “liberation” they claim to fight, they have engaged in ethnic cleansing in their area of operations. The LTTE has _targeted Sinhalis and Muslim Sri Lankans in northern Sri Lanka, while the PKK has murdered scores of ethnic Turks in the predominantly Kurdish-populated southeastern and eastern Turkey. Both terrorist organizations were “started-up” by foreign aid. PKK was supported by Syria and LTTE received Indian help in their early days. While the PKK is involved in trafficking heroin from Iran, the LTTE has been involved in doing the same from the Golden Crescent into Europe. Both organizations extort financial support from their Diaspora in Western Europe, and engage in the smuggling of illegal aliens. Both the PKK and the LTTE continue to recruit and often forcibly kidnap minor children to be deployed as terrorists in their ranks.

The two enjoy bilateral relations. In the 1990s, the PKK also developed similar relations with the IRA, ANC, and East Timorese Falantil/Fretilin. The LTTE is connected with the International Federation of Tamils, which the late PKK strongman Kani Yilmaz used to visit in 1997 at the Eelam House in London. In North America, PKK and LTTE trot common ground, despite the fact that both are listed as terrorist organizations by the US State Department, and even filed a joint lawsuit in 1998 to raise funds in the USA. In South Africa, the PKK and the LTTE both developed a presence after the ANC came into power in 1994, opening representative offices (the PKK in Cape Town and the LTTE in Durban). Authorities believe that the PKK may have used the LTTE’s freighter fleet for outgoing heroin shipments from Karachi. A little known fact is that both organizations shared training facilities in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon. LTTE terrorist were first trained there in 1977 under the tutelage of the Palestinian Fatah, and came into contact with the PKK terrorists who started arriving at the same camps in 1981.

LTTE is very active in the international arms trafficking. Both organizations started purchasing arms in Lebanon in the early 1980s when the LTTE was swindled out of large sums of money by Lebanese traders. In addition to Lebanon, the LTTE sourced weapons from Ukraine and Bulgaria. In August 1994, for example, the LTTE bought 50 tons of TNT and ten tons of RDX which they shipped from the Port of Nikolayev through the Turkish Straits using their front shipping company called Carlton Trading. Between 1994 and 1997, the LTTE sourced Russian-made SA7 MANPADs from the Cambodian black market and used these weapons to shoot down Sri Lankan Air Force planes and helicopters. In 1997, the LTTE, used a Stinger missile to shoot down a Sri Lankan Air Force Mi24 Hind attack helicopter. Similarly, the PKK shot down two Turkish Army helicopters in May 1997 using MANPADs of undetermined origin.

Perhaps the most vivid example of the PKK-LTTE collaboration is their use of suicide bombers. LTTE has been blazing a trail in this method since a female LTTE suicide bomber (“Black Tigers” as they are nicknamed) murdered Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1991 with five pounds of C4. Since 1995, LTTE Black Tigers have also _targeted unarmed civilians. Black Tigers utilize suicide vests which are more sophisticated than the crude contraptions the Palestinian Hamas used to utilize until 1996, the same year that the PKK deployed its first suicide bomber, a female. The PKK suicide bombers (nicknamed “Zilan” after the nome-de-guerre of the 1996 attacker) are almost exclusively females. The PKK launched seven suicide bomb attacks against Turkish _targets between 1996 and 1999, and following a four year lull, sent their ninth suicide bomber to work in 2003. Around the same time the LTTE Black Tigers reported back to war after a three year break. http://www.saag.org/papers19/paper1865.html

Note: In Sri Lanka case, religion is different between groups. But, organization of terrorist groups are very similar.

"Attacks by PKK" is suitable for name, isn't it?

Paparokan 23:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Huseyincan Celil

I have expanded and updated Huseyincan Celil. Please comment on Talk:Huseyincan Celil or my talkpage if you wish to revert. I have come across news reports referring to Celil by another name - Yu Shanjiang, but I cannot figure out if Shanjiang and Dilaver are supposed to be the same person or not. See [15] KazakhPol 23:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Shanjiang is not mentioned in the Wikipedia entry. Why did you remove Category:Terrorism in China when he was convicted of terrorism in China? Was that an accident? KazakhPol 08:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Baloch people

Hello dear i offten see your edits on Baloch people ,it is great to see your work.But i want you to add Arab in (Related ethnic groups) too with Iranian because in many books i have read that Balouch are Iranian or Arab.

Khalidkhoso 00:26, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

here are few links

• [[16]] (According to these authorities, the See also:

FAMILY family of the khans of Kalat is of Arabic origin,)

• [[17]]
• [[18]]
• [[19]]
• [[

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Baluchistan,_British_India]]

• [[20]]

I will send u soon dear. But most Balouch sites are blocked in pakistan ,even if i try to open it does works.i will try to find some thing good

till then Caio

Khalidkhoso 19:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

i will send some more links and Book names.

Khalidkhoso 01:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes almost all Khalidkhoso 19:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

check this Internet_censorship_in_Pakistan

CrazyInSane

I don't think the editors in question are his sock puppets. Have you done a checkuser? JoshuaZ 03:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :-)

For handling that bit of vandalism. (→Netscott) 06:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The vandal is back, would you kindly indef. block Guizteh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Thanks. (→Netscott) 12:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Got it. El_C 13:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks El C. (→Netscott) 13:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

For sure, anytime. El_C 13:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to disturb you again but User:Kgeza67 is doing his thing with Dfiukdn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) despite his banned status. (→Netscott) 00:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Khoikhoi, one last request... I suspect that my user pages are about to be attacked by this user per the attacks I recieved from him the other day. If you would be so kind as to sprotect my talk page and user page that'd be appreciated. Thanks. (→Netscott) 01:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the talk page protection. Please note that your edit the User talk:Pschemp has been reverted by another sock. (→Netscott) 01:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks also

Likewise. Wahkeenah 09:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

• I confess I don't remember you. I do have a good memory, it's just short. Please refresh mine. :) Wahkeenah 09:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• Aha! Yes, it would have been something about "What makes the Hottentot so hot? Who put the 'ape' in apricot?" etc. I am hard pressed to come up with any coy remarks about your current username, though, as I'm unsure how to pronounce it. :) Wahkeenah 09:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• You don't know how to pronounce your own username? Well, then, I guess you can pronounce it any way you want to. :) I'm assuming it means something, but I have no idea what? Wahkeenah 10:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• "coy-coy" would probably be as good as any, if the transliteration is correct. A language of Namibia, yes? I don't know much about African languages. I know a few Yiddish/German words here and there. I take "men of men" to mean strong or manly men, men of honor, etc. In Yiddish, the singular term would be "Mensch": a "real man". A good username to have. Even if it requires an explanation. :) Wahkeenah 10:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• Related to "goy"? I would not discount the possibility. Strong words have a way of surviving through the evolution of language. Maybe you know that "ma" or variations thereof mean "mother" in nearly every language on earth. I wonder what the word for "mother" is in the Namibian language? Wahkeenah 10:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• I should have said "the language(s) of Namibia". I know the Swahili word for mother is also similar to "ma", but I don't recall exactly what it is. I just find it interesting that "ma" also means mother in Mandarin, and there probably aren't all that many words in common between Mandarin, Swahili, and English. Wahkeenah 10:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Look Khoikhoi, I _honestly_ want to co-operate with you and the other editors by reaching a consensus, do you think that I like having to revert other people and repeat the same things in Talk over and over again? I really want from other editors to understand _why_ their version makes the article a fork, and _why_ unreferenced edits cannot remain in the article. The problem is that nobody wants to co-operate with me, nobody is responding my querries and nobody is trying to find a mutually acceptable solution, I'm practically talking to myself. Cretanforever is not participating in a dialogue, and Gonzo is revert-warring. I'm not getting any responses in Talk and although a consensus about the nature of the article is clear to everybody but Cretanforever and Gonzo, I'm still trying to make them understand. So I really think that reverting to a clearly unreferenced and one-sided version will not help resolve the dispute. In my opinion Cretanforever and Gonzo feel that you're simply on their side, and this is why they refrain from participating in Talk (and not because I've been insulting their people as you previously claimed). If you think I've been insulting anybody then give me a warning or remove my edits. So will you please accept to co-operate with me? Miskin 14:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

E-mail

Check your e-mail. -- Aivazovsky 15:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Island or Adası

Hi, just a question... What term we had better use when referring to Turkish islands? Of course we can't refer to Büyükada as "Grand Island", but what about the others? Is Marmara Adası or Avşa Adası appropriate, or calling them Marmara Island or Avşa Island will be quite better? Of course it will influence the article names as well. Chapultepec 20:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks a lot. I think we should prefer the most common English name whenever appropriate. Until then. Chapultepec 11:24, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

User Nareklm

Thank you for your contribution to the page Qazakh. I would like to draw your attention to continued vandalism by [User Nareklm] He is removing referenced info on page Urartu and Monte Melkonian. HE also removing my reference on page Udi - I can accept that the last page is disputable. But first two pages - I put referenced info to neutral sources. Nareklm's action is unacceptable.--Dacy69 20:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Khomeini

Hi KhoiKhoi

The following information were previously in Ruhollah Khomeini's article. They were removed with no justification. I added them again.... immediately removed again ...I am surprized to see people added so many negative info about Khomeini without giving him the credit for his positive measures.

• Here is the part repeatedly deleted:

In 1976, Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa to allow people with hormonal disorders to undergo gender reassignment if they wished, as well as to change their birth certificates to reflect their new gender role. Before the Islamic Revolution in 1979, there was no particular policy regarding transgendered individuals. Iranians with the inclination, means, and connections could obtain the necessary medical treatment and new identity documents.

For many years, breaking the barrier of confinement of the private sphere has been a major source of frustration for advocates of women's rights in Iran. But the Islamic revolution broke the barrier overnight. When Khomeini called for women to attend public demonstration and ignore the night curfew, millions of women who would otherwise not have dreamt of leaving their homes without their husbands' and fathers' permission or presence, took to the streets. Khomeini's call to rise up against the Shah took away any doubt in the minds of many devoted Muslim women about the propriety of taking to the streets during the day or at night.[21]

The late 1980s and early 1990s witnessed a marked increase of employment for women. This increase was much more than the rate prior to the revolution. Such dramatic change in the pattern of labor force participation might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere. Educational attainment for women, also a product of free education and the literacy campaign, contributed to this increase. In fact, today there are more women in higher education than there are men. The Islamic Republic had adopted certain policies to expand educational levels for women in order to ensure that sexual segregation paid off. These policies were to encourage women to become skilled workers in domains exclusive to women. For example, the government set quotas for female pediatricians and gynecologists and set up barriers against women wanting to become civil engineers.[22]

Khomeini supported family planning, a program through which the government called upon women to distribute contraceptives, as well as organ transplants. [23]

I am not really interested in politics and I am now busy with articles on art and science, particularly Abbas Kiarostami. I am really reluctant to enter a useless edit war with them on such a trivial issue. Please help with this pov problem on this page. Thanks and take care. Sangak 22:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Image:Azerirefugees2.jpg

Hey Khoikhoi can you update the information/source/rationale of this image or at least provide it on the NK War page's FA nomination? Thanks. --MarshallBagramyan 05:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

monte melkonian

Apparently these users who remove refrenced info is not going to compromise becuase they are trying to polish his biography. --Dacy69 14:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Last comment

You are right for indicating there are people killed by the Turkish Army. But, it does not mean that there is an ethnic conflict. My idea for the name is "Causalties of the Turkish Government Forces-PKK Conflict". Human Rights Watch also uses the term "Turkish government forces have, in the course of the conflict with the PKK", and it does not use "ethnic conflict" term. Conflict is between Turkish Government Forces-PKK and civilians die on both sides. Paparokan 15:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Kaltsef

LOL. But who's the copycat and who's the original? I think Kaltsef was earlier, wasn't he? :-) --Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Pashtun people

I'll have time for a complete read on Wednesday; some questions for now. The article seems severely undercategorized; can you look for appropriate categories? Wikilink all full dates in references, so date pref works. Some of your refs are incomplete wrt publisher, last access date, etc. (Pashto report, Ethnologue.com and Iranian-speaking peoples(retrieved 10 January 2007) , for example). The Language section is stubby; can it be expanded? Also, the "many speak another language" statement should be cited. Wondering why the mention of performing arts but no mention of visual arts? I'll read on Wednesday, Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Apology

Hi, Khoikhoi. I'm very sorry about the latest trouble i brought about the parole. I accused you for the block but Dmcdevit was quite right in his decision for the revert parole. Sorry, cause i really forgot the Golden Horde is in the list. Apologizing. Best wishes. E104421 21:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

This has gone too far...

Look at this. He's trying to provoke a response from Armenian editors. -- Aivazovsky 21:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Ceha

Hi, Ceha (talk · contribs) is appealing his block. Can you explain what the evidence is? I'm not familiar with the Africa paprika case. But what I find weird about this as a sockpuppetry case is that Ceha is actually an older account (from November 2005) than Afrika himself (from July 2006). Fut.Perf. ☼ 01:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. I guess I'd prefer an unblocking. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Image:Danielburial3.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Danielburial3.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the image description page and edit it to add {{Replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Chowbok ☠ 05:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

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3RR

Khoi how are you? This gentelmen Buffadren made 3RR violation [24]. Also his behavior is getting out of control. Please help. Thanks. Ldingley 14:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I've already been doing my best with the Turkish editors (in general) and I'll do the same with you. But the fact that I have occasionally criticised Cretanforever's and Gonzo's behaviour by referring to them as the "Turkish editors" shouldn't be generalised to those "Turkish editors in wikipedia" or those "Turks". Although everybody knows who I was been referring to, the past few days I've only been using their names in order to avoid misunderstandings. Miskin 15:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Just checking Khoikhoi's talk page for the latest gossips and I come across my name. Miskin, I must say I am offended that you, behind my back, label me by my nationality. Putting myself aside, Cretanforever is probably one of the most articulate and intellectual Turkish Wikipedians here, show more class please.--Doktor Gonzo 09:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

pls discipline this user

please look at this language and discipline this user [25]--Dacy69 19:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah after you block Dacy for violating the 3RR there please and thanks. Nareklm 19:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Users User:Fadix and User:Nareklm persistently attack a group of Wikipedia contributors, often using a foul language and personal attacks at Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh and User_Talk:Khokhoi. Please, investigate the issue. Thanks. Atabek 20:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Discipline the user? I hope you don't mean in a "kinky" way?--Doktor Gonzo 09:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Move

I had a small problem with a move at Akkoc v Turkey to Akkoç v. Turkey since it was redirected the other way around by the creator of the article. Can you do the move? Cheers! Baristarim 23:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

(PS. Added the dot. ECHR court rulings use the diacritics and "v." dot format rather than the "v" format [26]. Cheers!) 23:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC) taken care of - sorry for taking up space! Baristarim 00:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Azeris

I see what you mean, but I thought that the time frame was for 1918-1925 and the Turkish-Armenian War after which many Azeris did flee the new state of Armenia (and vice versa I suppose). Maybe we can keep both in some way? Baristarim 02:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Qazakh

This is going nowhere fast. -- Aivazovsky 02:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

re Circassians edit

Sorry...and thanks. I looked at a dozen pages where I thought I might find the proper way to indicate the language of the link, and came up emptyhanded. Cheers, Tomer^talk 05:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Ararat arev

May have another sock so I taged it.User:Aramaster3000  Planetary Chaos  Talk to me  19:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a comment they both edit different articles Ararat arev is more into Armenian history and doesn't edit things related to Azeris, i asked him and he said its not him. Nareklm 22:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

You said we had to reach consensus and you would agree by now that a consensus has been reached, or better put, reflected. How come you are still reverting my edits while I'm trying to restore the original version? That version was changed by dictatorial means, and not even once you asked from Cretanforever to reach a consensus or even provide some sources. Honestly I don't understand where you're coming from on this one. I mean besides all the "details" concerning POV-fork, POV-pushing, lack of references etc, can't you see that Cretanforever is refusing to participate in discussion?? What are we supposed to do, the man is literally ignoring us, and when he answers he does it with sarcasms. And yet still sit back and wait for him like idiots. We are the ones who are waiting, for his version is active as we speak. And if you ask me, this is going on because he thinks that you are backing him up. Proof? Check out the second POV-fork he created in Crete Province, Ottoman Empire‎. You once justified his passive behaviour as a result of my allegedly being rude to him and "to his people". I still refuse such accusations. If you think that I have somehow wronged, insulted with no valid reason, then please do provide me with some diffs. Miskin 22:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attacks

Dear Khoikhoi c this UserDargay[[27]] having personal attacks on Murtaza Bhutto. Khalidkhoso 23:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Khokhoi, why am I have trouble redirecting Kurdish genocide towards Al-Anfal campaign? I have put the redirect in but it is still showing the contents of older edits. Thanks, --A.Garnet 21:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)