Talk:Margaret Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher's name

I tried correcting Margaret Thatcher's name in the infobox to "Margaret Thatcher" as someone had set it to "The Baroness Thatcher", but this was reverted. I'm pretty sure her first name isn't "The". According to the template documentation at infobox person, the name parameter is for "Common name of person", not their title. Nosferattus (talk) 21:23, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps these infobox templates need an honorific_prefix_2 parameter. What is your take on this situation, Right Honourable Sir Neveselbert? I took a look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography and it says "In general, honorific prefixes and suffixes should not be included, but may be discussed in the article." However, it does make an exception for including Sir, Dame, Lord and Lady in infoboxes (without explaining why). Nosferattus (talk) 22:14, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

You didn't correct anything. Her title was The Baroness Thatcher; see members.parliament.uk/member/953/career. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Neveselbert: That page says "Her full title was The Rt Hon. the Baroness Thatcher LG OM. Her name was Margaret Hilda Thatcher." The name parameter, as I'm sure you know, is for a person's name, not their title. What am I missing here? Nosferattus (talk) 21:19, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Neveselbert: Do you still object to changing the name parameter to "Margaret Thatcher"? Nosferattus (talk) 01:00, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes. It's standard across infoboxes of all articles for British peers to use their name in the peerage. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 20:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

If put to an RfC, I expect the wider community would not support highlighting this much less globally known title in the infobox. Past sentiment to that effect can be found here and here. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 16:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Ireland vs The Republic of Ireland

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (1979–1990) > Northern Ireland > Paragraph 3 > line 3

"The Republic of Ireland" should read "Ireland". There are two countries on the Island of Ireland, Northern Ireland and Ireland. "The Country of Ireland" and "The Island of Ireland" should be used to avoid ambiguity. As per article 4 of the Irish constitution the name of the state is "Éire" or, in English, "Ireland".

"The Republic of" is a descriptor of the type of state Ireland is and not the correct term at all when referring to the country regardless of how often it is incorrectly used. Revlon1997 (talk) 12:51, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it's best to use Republic of Ireland on articles like this to avoid confusion regarding the Northern Ireland situation. After all, the consensus on the rest of Wikipedia seems to be that we use Ireland for the geographical island of the same name with both countries and Republic of Ireland for the sovereign state of the same name outside the UK (see the Republic of Ireland article and the Ireland article and other articles related to the matter, e.g. Republic of Ireland–United Kingdom border, Republic of Ireland at the UEFA European Championship). It's a relatively minor thing in the grander scheme of things, with people from both the islands of Ireland and Great Britain using the term Republic of Ireland for the sovereign state. Again, this also helps avoid confusion with the Northern Ireland situation, as Northern Ireland is governed by the UK and not the Republic, which was the same situation back when Thatcher was around. Therefore, I don't really see a reason to change the name used on the article here. ThatRandomGuy1 (talk) 13:35, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

You think its best but its blatantly correct. Its an incredibly common occurence that British media uses "The Republic of Ireland" rather than acknowledge that there is one country called Ireland and another called Northern Ireland. If the aim is to distinguish between the two then "The Country of Ireland" and "The Island of Ireland" is a far more accurate way of doing so.

Would also add that the use of "The Republic of Ireland" has fallen out of use drastically in the last 10-20 years. You may have noticed that in the 2000s that when selecting your nationality from a list Ireland would be listed as "The Republic of Ireland", this something that has become very uncommon in recent years.

Personally I find the use of "The Republic of Ireland" to be completely against the mission statement of Wikipedia to deliver unbiased information. Ireland is one country and its name is stated in its constitution. It should be referred to as such. Feel free to have your own opinions on it but those would be your opinions and not in line with the identity of the nation as outlined in its constitution. There is an exceptionally long history since the days of home rule of refusal by the British government to use the correct name for Ireland in an effort to make it seem more of secession rather than a regaining of independence. Revlon1997 (talk) 14:29, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I have even experienced that British people (i.e. British Airways staff) called it Southern Ireland. But please note that Ireland links to the island and not to a country. The Banner talk 16:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

We have a guideline on this: see WP:IRE-IRL. The first bullet point is why "Republic of Ireland" is used here. Proteus (Talk) 16:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Use of the term "Statesman"

Wikipedia defines a statesman/woman as:

A politician or a leader in an organization who has had a long and respected career at the national or international level.

Merriam-Webster:

A wise, skillful, and respected political leader

I am commenting of Thatcher specifically, but many historical politicians are referred to as Statespeople on this site and I think it's unobjective to say that any controversial historical figure was "Wise, skillful, and respected." In my opinion, this line should be removed and politician may suffice. Milfiresices (talk) 02:58, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I would tend to agree, but it's probably something that needs to be raised more widely e.g. at WP:POLITICS. I T B F 💬 03:38, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

It's sourced in the article body. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the line. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 18:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested grammar fix

"As well working with the CIA in Operation Cyclone ..."

That should be "As well as working with the CIA in Operation Cyclone ..."

203.211.108.137 (talk) 13:00, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. Chewings72 (talk) 13:12, 12 August 2024 (UTC)