Garzo

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Wikiproject Ancient Egypt Milestones

Help our Wikiproject improve! Recently we have been asked to set our milestones, in which we will strive to gain our goals (which could be number of FAs or such). Please join in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zuzzerack (talk • contribs) 01:00, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia profile

Hi Gareth. I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for learning about building a wikipedia profile? Deusveritasest (talk) 06:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Old Catholic Church

Hi Gareth, could you maybe chime in at Talk:Old Catholic Church#Vague statement recently added? I genuinely don't understand what this fellow is on about. —Angr 15:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Some mistakes in articles

"(...) Diatessaron 'survived to the present day'." Sometimes I do some mistakes. Usually I correct them later, f.e. Codex Beratinus II (hurry), Codex Sinopensis (careless), Codex Boernerianus (uncounscious), Codex_Mutinensis (surprised), Kodeks minuskułowy (tired). Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 18:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Moran

Regarding the summary for your edit reverting my edit: Why? 'Moran' has one meaning 'Moran Mor' another; all is explained in the article. The reason is that WP:MOSDAB#Individual entries recommends Entries should not be pipe-linked—refer to the article name in full. And the entry does not appear to fall under any of the described exceptions. If you'd like to make a separate redirect for the meaning that you entered, that would be just fine. Or else the entry may need to be a bit longer, such as "* Moran, a variant form of Mar meaning a Syriac title for Jesus Christ". older ≠ wiser 22:43, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I understand your edit to have been overly bureaucratic. I wrote the article Mar (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) in order to draw together a number of related terms. I added a link to Moran (disambiguation) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) so that anyone searching for the meaning of 'Moran' as a Syriac title could find the article. Moran Mor is a related title, so I created a redirect there. The argument is that someone searching for this meaning of 'Moran' will come to Moran (disambiguation) looking for that term rather than 'Moran Mor'. I'll edit it so that we don't have a piped link. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 22:59, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac articles

I understand why you protected articles like Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people, but it won't resolve the conflict, when the protection runs out I will revert the article to the other version. I've discussed it why in the discussion page of the article, but user:Am6212 ignores this, he just keeps reverting calling it "vandalism". Articles like for example Osroene, "...was a historic Syriac kingdom located in...", links to the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people article, should it be redirected to Assyrian people though the article says Syriac? The TriZ (talk) 09:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Garzo, I would be interested in how you justify this protection of a blatant violation of WP:CFORK. --dab (𒁳) 10:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Please, help me

I do not know if you actually have a time, but I need some help. Possibly you remarked, English is not my first, or even second language (fourth or fifth). Of course, you remarked it. My thinking is typically slavonic, I developed from some boundories... Sorry, it is not important for now. Actually, I am looking for somebody, who wants to correct some of my articles. Especially Novum Instrumentum omne. I know, introduction in this article is correct, but later part of article... I am sure, not everything is correct. And the other article, if you have a time: List of New Testament minuscules, only introduction in this article. I know it is not correct. Please correct me. If nobody will correct me I will never learn your language (most important language in the world) as well, as I need it. I hope you understand me. Do you have time for it? By the way, I appreciate your articles concerned Syriac. I am impressed. Thanks for your willingness, to correct Syriac versions of the Bible. It was only one reason that I created this article, it did not exist before my editing. With great regards. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 16:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Syriac vs Assyrian

Sorry to have to bring up a rather dull dispute over the translation of the word "Süryani" in Yusuf Akbulut, an article which you also commented on a while ago. I will not remove the changes by Am6212 and Trippss, letting you handle the disagreement when you get the chance. Best Ordtoy (talk) 08:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Clearly, the Turkish word 'Süryani' is etymologically related to the English words 'Syriac' and 'Syrian', and the Syriac word ܣܘܪܝܝܐ. There is an open question whether 'Assyrian' has the same etymological root. However, it is safe to say that the English word 'Syriac' is closer etymologically and semantically to the Turkish. For a translator from Turkish to English to translate it with 'Assyrian' is adding a meaning to the text which the text itself does not have, and thus is a bad translation. I met with Yusuf Akbulut a couple of years ago. I can't remember him giving any clue to his preferred ethnic label, but that may have been a diplomatic silence. Likewise, an interview in Turkish is likely to be err on the side of caution. The answer is probably to find a neutral solution like: "Syriac ('Süryani' in Turkish, but understood by some to mean 'Assyrian')". — Gareth Hughes (talk) 17:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. I'm not sure if you looked at the recent history of Yusuf Akbulut, but 'Syriac' has is being rejected in favor of 'Assyrian' by some. The dispute comes down to whether the original Hürriyet article should be valued more than the English-language reports that came after. It's reached the state of a revert war, from which I have removed myself. My opinion was always to remove 'Assyrian' when quoting or paraphrasing what Akbulut said (based on the same rationale you used in your answer), but keeping it when referring to the organizations who challenged the Turkish government. In any event, it would be good for an admin to step in. Best Ordtoy (talk) 20:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Chaldean Christians

Hi! Am6212 (talk · contribs), the user that was being disruptive on this article, just got blocked for abusive sockpuppetry and insane revert-warring. Do you have any objections to me unprotecting the page? Yours, east718 // talk // email // 21:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Mandaic alphabet

A deletion request regarding de:Mandäische Schrift made look at the article here and Image:Mandaic Alphabet.jpg. It's not quite clear what's the source for the "Mystery" column. Article and image were create in ye olde times of Wikipedia, when sourcing was way less strict now, and while I take your authorship as proof of correctness, adding some explicit sources would be great.

The website I just delinked (for general reasons) states The Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran, by E.S. Drower, Clarendon Press, Oxford,1937 (Reprint Leiden:E.J. Brill 1962) page 241 as source. But by the autopsy principle (oops, article is missing here, see de:Autopsieprinzip, the requirement to not rely on sources only indirectly known) I don't want to add it without having it seen.

--Pjacobi (talk) 08:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I am almost certain that the information was taken from Macuch's Mandaean handbook. I made a bit of a rush job of it. I might have some time next week to bring the book into the office and either give a decent attribution or redo the table properly. I'm not sure where the original file used to create the image is now. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 11:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

History of the Assyrian people

Gareth, Dab moved the page with no discussion what so ever. His reason was scope, but if you look at the article, it talks about Assyrian independence and Assyrian genocide and Assyrian empire, so I don't know how he got his reason. The page needs to be moved back. Their hasn't been no agreement on calling Assyrians as Syriac Christians in Wikipedia. So where did he get his title from? Chaldean (talk) 11:35, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Neo-Aramaic dialect classification

Dear Gareth! I'm working now on language maps of Neo-Aramaic and trying to look into all those "Assyro-Chaldeo-Ashireto-Jewish" cobwebs. Several questions I have already got, maybe you could help me:

• Is the list of dialects in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic given according to Maclean 1895? Compared to this map (which is also done "d'apres Maclean") there are some discrepancies, namely:
• First of all, is this scheme linguistically meaningful or it's only ethno-historical one? If
• Upper Barwari, Dez, Baz are in Northern group in the article (A) but in "Group des "Achiret" in the map (M).
• Central group (A) looks like Zones de transition (M) but I don't understand what is Anhar (A) (maybe it's corresponded to Achita (M)?) and it's unclear whether Nochiya (A) should include in this case Baradost, Tergawar, Mergawar, Khumaru, Derrenaye and Shekak.
• Western group (A) looks like Group des "Achiret" (M) with mentioned exception. But what is Tal – I haven't found it in other sources..
• Group de Sud (M) looks like Chaldean Neo-Aramaic. Is there reasonable linguistic frontier between it and the rest (=Assyrian Neo-Aramaic) or it's just confessional distinction?
• Then, are all Nestorians in Iraq south of the Western / Southern group border the early 20 c. refugees from Hakkari? (cf. those maps)
• Is there a more detailed classification of Chaldean Neo-Aramaic / Group de Sud?
• Many smaller tribes aren't mentioned in the article and not easily classified looking at the map, among others: Nerva, Raykan, Pinyanesh, Sapna.
• Were there areas say in early 20 c. where Neo-Aramaic was spoken by majority of population? Especially somewhere in Hakkari and adjacent areas?

Well, that's all up to now, but further questions will possible rise in future… --Koryakov Yuri (talk) 14:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

As far as Assyrian Neo-Aramaic (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) is concerned, I wrote the dialects based on Maclean 1895, but with a little modernising. I'm sure if you look at the history you'll see my original version. Since writing the article, various users, mostly speakers of the language, have altered it. In the most part, this is to emphasize their ancestral village. Without further investigation, these insertions remain little more than a geographical broadening of the dialect groups. Certainly, what Maclean could gather in 1895 is not true now. Many distinctions in dialect only existed due to isolation and lack of ready communication. Printing presses brought the establishment of the Urmežnaya dialect as a standard form of the language, in opposition to the Aširet dialects of the hill country. The later movement of Aširet speakers to the Mosul plain has lead to the so-called Iraqi Koinē, which is probably the most widely spoken variety of the language in Iraq and diaspora (i.e. everywhere but Iran and Turkey). Chaldean Neo-Aramaic belongs at the southern end of the dialect continuum with Assyrian Neo-Aramaic; traditional southern Assyrian varieties have more in common with Chaldean varieties than Aširet or Urmežnaya. There is a confessional distinction between the two, but this also led to the standard variety to which each confession looked being different. Assyrians in northern Iraq looked to Urmežnaya, then the Koinē blend of Urmežnaya with Aširet, as the standard. Whereas, Chaldeans had long before established Alqošaya as a standard. As far as I can tell, the division between spoken varieties in Iraq and diaspora is breaking down, and Iraqi Koinē has become commonplace. The southern group of varieties bears much less distinction than Aširet. Even Hakkari, I think that Kurds lived alongside Assyrians, so there never was a sizeable region of Assyrian speakers. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 19:46, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Shlomo

Shlomo loch Garzo, long time no seen as I haven't been around. Hulmono loch w-fulhonoch (hopefully you will understand lol). Well what I came to ask for is to end this nameconflict on wikipedia once and forever. There is a conflict going on the Assyrian people's page, what it's title should be. I have messaged some adminstrators about this and asked them to move this article to "Assyrian/Syriac people" or "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people" in order to end this conflict once and for all, and if possible lock it for changings in the title. I was wondering, as you know a lot of people around here if you could message someone who could make this possible? God bless, Aloho mqadesh --Yohanun (talk) 20:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I cannot force one point of view until there is a consensus. I have long grown tired of this argument. The problem is that advocates of some of these names will not let any other version be heard. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 21:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

your opinion please...

If you have a moment could you take a look at the comment I made at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Terrorism#When should we rename articles?

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 20:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

"To be" in Syriac

Hey there Gareth,

Quick question: is there any difference between ܗܘ and ܐܝܬܘܗܝ, or do they mean the same thing? --334a (talk) 01:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

They are both copulae and can often be used interchangeably. Their original functions are different: ܗܘ is the third-person singular masculine pronoun, while ܐܝܬ is particle (originally a noun) with the meaning of 'existence'. I feel in my bones that there is a difference in usage between the two, but I can't put my finger on quite what it is. I took a look at what Nöldeke says about Syriac copulae, and he comes up with some nice examples of equivalence, but none of difference. Here are the example sentences he gives:

• ܚܢܢ ܚܢܢ ܒ̈ܢܝ ܐܒܪܗܡ — ḥnan ḥnan bnai Abrāhām — the pronoun 'we' is repeated, the second is used as a copula: we (we)-are the-sons-of Abraham
• ܚܢܢ ܐܢܘܢ ܒ̈ܢܝ ܐܒܪܗܡ — ḥnan enon bnai Abrāhām — the pronoun 'they' is used as a copula: we (they)-are the-sons-of Abraham
• ܚܢܢ ܐܝܬܝܢ ܒ̈ܢܝ ܐܒܪܗܡ — ḥnan itain bnai Abrāhām — the particle ܐܝܬ with the 'we' suffix: we are-(we) the-sons-of Abraham
• ܚܢܢ ܒ̈ܢܝ ܐܒܪܗܡ ܚܢܢ — ḥnan bnai Abrāhām ḥnan — the predicate is fronted: (we)-are the-sons-of Abraham we
• ܚܢܢ ܒ̈ܢܝ ܐܒܪܗܡ — ḥnan bnai Abrāhām — simple lack of copula/subject: we-are the-sons-of Abraham
• ܒ̈ܢܝ ܐܒܪܗܡ ܚܢܢ — bnai Abrāhām ḥnan — fronting predicate: the-sons-of Abraham we-are

Different writers in different periods have had a preference for one or other of these forms. I feel that ܐܝܬ as copula speaks of the existence of something (especially because it's used in the form ܐܝܬ ܠ to indicate possession), whereas ܗܘ is used to talk about the properties of something. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. Thank you! --334a (talk) 17:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

FYI

Hey Garzo, just wanted to let you know that the Aramaic language article is currently up for review (regarding its featured status). I'm contacting you since you're the main contributor. Regards, Khoikhoi 07:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. It looks like the wiki-bureaucrats were getting bored and jumped on this one with glee. I could do some work on it, to get it back up to standard, but it would be more useful if they provide a list of changes rather than wring their hands over their beloved categories. Would you have any suggestions? — Gareth Hughes (talk) 12:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the main issue that I can see is that there aren't enough inline citations (in the form of footnotes). Although you listed your references here, the references aren't cited in the format that most featured articles are. I think back when the Aramaic language article became featured however, most articles did not adhere to this method anyway. Some examples of featured articles in which there are plenty of these include Mayan languages, Rongorongo, and Tamil language. You can try contacting YellowMonkey to ask what specific parts of the article needed improvement. If you want I could try to help you with the citations as well. Khoikhoi 17:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

The 12 steps

Hey Garzo, Thought you might like this [[1]] It was yesterday in Alqosh. Iraqi (talk) 10:14, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Garzo, this user - User:Chaldeaan was created to somehow ruin my credentials by someone by acting foolishly. His userpage is a direct copy of mine. Isn't their any Wiki rule that would ban this user? You blocked him for 24 hours back in October. Iraqi (talk) 17:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Imset(y)

The name of this god is Imsety. Before New Kingdom, this god was a goddess Imset (t is ending for names of goddesses), and was painted in yellow, without a beard. Later, this goddess became a god Imsety. So, the article must be named Imsety, with y.--Gospodar svemira (talk) 16:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

If you have decent evidence for this, please add it to the article page. Of course, the final hieroglyph isn't exactly a 'y'. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 23:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

72.93.90.146

Hi, you posted a first vandalism warning to the IP 72.93.90.146 several months ago. After looking into recent unconstructive edits, it appears that several others warned and temporarily blocked the account since.

Perhaps something can be done to prevent further problems due to this user? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.60.232 (talk) 14:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It like you is an IP address, and may be used by different editors. Persistent abuse can be reported, and the IP address temporarily blocked. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 23:51, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Sureth

Hello Garzo, Thanks for your interest in Syriac and reading the article on Sureth. I am a French citizen keen on Middle-Eastern matters and Christian spirituality as well. I am involved in Association Assyrophile de France, who are, among other things, building up the Online Sureth - English/French Dictionary (as well as the Akkadian - English/French Dictionary), precisely to help enlighten researchers like you in their studies. As far as the article is concerned, could you expand on your reservations about Bruno Poizat's book? I have personally read it, I am quite satisfied with it. I am also in contact with the Head of Department of Aramaic Studies of Tel-Aviv University who owns this very book and found it great.

We, along with Bruno Poizat, acknowledge that the different Assyrian tribes (Jilu, Tkhuma,...) have their own dialects, and we are not trying to make believe that there is just "one Sureth". These dialects stem from the same roots and have enough common points to be on the whole referred to by the name: Sureth. In fact these tribes can communicate with each other (their differences being minor). Don't you think the different languages referred to as "Sureth" are one package deserving enough to have an entry of its own?

Isn't the disambiguation page you mentionned already present in the entry "Neo Aramaic"? One point on which I agree with you is that the entry "Sureth" could contain links towards kin varieties, but must the page boil down to a disambiguation page for that.

I hope our exchange will be fruitful for the advancement of Wikipedia in the field of Semitic studies.

Have you ever visited the online dictionaries (Sureth and Akkadian)? If yes, may I ask you your opinion about them.

Best regards Cimsam (talk) 19:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Infobox Language/Draft

A tag has been placed on Template:Infobox Language/Draft requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Aramaic language

Hello. Could you leave an update at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Aramaic language please? I'm not so interested in progress on adding cites; I'm more interested in whether you think the article represents current academic thought. You said in an earlier comment that "controversial material has been added". Thanks. DrKiernan (talk) 14:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Any update on this one? I am waiting to hear from you before closing the FAR. Joelito (talk) 17:26, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Gareth. I think Aramaic language will (and should) be delisted soon unless it progresses. I agree that improving articles is more important than bureaurcratic classification, but it really does need improvement to be able to compare favourably with other FA's. My main concern is the briefness of the grammar section, other editors have expressed concerns about citations and language style. It seems that you do not currently have time to improve it - why not simply state in the review that this is the case let them delist it and allow yourself to work slowly towards improving it. I would be willing to assist you in a future FA review when you get the article closer to the standard.·Maunus·ƛ· 18:04, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Religion-Wiki

Hello Gareth recently i got Bureacrat rights on the | Religion-Wiki I noticed you have still bureacrats overthere. But i saw that your last edit was around 2007. Are you planning to come back? We can always could use some extra help.

Regards Friso Schaap —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.206.243.207 (talk) 18:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

vandalism on nasrani articles

Dear Garzo,

Your help is needed in fighting vandalism,

A new editor engaging in vandalism has come with the name user:student7 and creating new pages with his own version of personal opinion of Syrian Malabar Nasrani history. The new page created by the vandal is History of the Saint Thomas Christians.

The page he has created is a duplication of a page and information that already exists in wikipedia articles (Saint Thomas Christian tradition and Syrian Malabar Nasrani). BUT he has removed references and passages that he does not agree with. He has created an entire new page only to put his POV on the topic. He uses different I.P. addresses and creates new ids and presents himself as a decent editor while only using anonymous I.P. address to engage in vandalism. He claims in the talk pages that he has created the new page only as a new stand alone page. He says that he has only copied passages from other wikipedia pages. But actually he has inserted a tremendous amount of his own views into the referenced passages and has removed passages that he does not agree with personally.

His true purpose of creating the the page and vandalism is to remove passages with references that refer to Jewish tradition of the Syrian malabar nasrani people of kerala. He is a vandal involved in gross vandalism but masquerading as an editor. I had initially redirected the page to the older page that was edited by several hundreds of editors over several years but he has reverted that. You can read the talk page Talk:History of the Saint Thomas Christians. He has been vandalising pages, especially those concerned with nasrani people for a long time. But no editor seems to bother. This would lead to the destruction of wikipedia. Please help to fight this vandalism. Vagab (talk) 01:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Aramaic language

This is just an encouragement note for you to keep improving the Aramaic language article. Good work, keep going! --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Google Books

This quote of yours at Talk:Aramaic language is certainly a growing problem: "Perhaps that's more a problem with doing scholarship through Google Books rather than quoting real books". I actually had an editor tell me that he was too busy to go to a library and therefore real books aren't either reliable or verifiable sources :p Cheers. (Taivo (talk) 11:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC))

Hi,

I just received a bizarre warning that someone using my IP address had engaged in some sort of vandalism on the Chaldea entry. Not exactly sure what is going on with that, but I do have unblocked wireless internet that might theoretically be accessible by some of the nearby houses in my neighborhood.

Sorry for any sort of inconvenience that caused you, but it's not me (the lawful owner of the IP address).

Take care + good luck fixing up the article again.

-Clay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.211.86.193 (talk) 01:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Assyrian Genocide

Dear Gareth,

Judging from your various edits, you appear to have an admirable regard for factual accuracy, and hope that I can count on your support when, eventually, I launch a full-scale attack on the absurd exaggerations to be found in the Wikipedia article Assyrian Genocide. The casualty figures are inflated by several folds (the total population of the Nestorian, Chaldean, Syrian Orthodox and Syrian Catholic churches in 1913 was around half a million, and it is alleged that these churches suffered casualties of between 500,000 and 750,000! I am in the process of assembling the relevant population statistics in my articles Dioceses of the Church of the East, 1552–1913 and Dioceses of the Syrian Orthodox Church, and when I'm done I will be ready to confront the Assyrian nationalists with hard evidence.

I've had one go already on the Discussion page for that article, but without success. It seems that anybody who attempts to inject a degree of sobriety into this topic is automatically accused of being a Turk, a member of al-Qaeda and a Holocaust denier.

Djwilms (talk) 04:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Dear Djwilms,

This is a very sensitive subject, and it is always good to remember that people's grandparents died during this horror. Of course, it is essential that information presented as facts are thoroughly checked and supported by clear evidence. Where there is doubt, it should be indicated and reasons for it given. It is sad to see that there may be some truth in your claim that Assyrians, desperate for recognition, may stretch the truth. The accusatory response you describe (that you are a Turk, al-Qaeda or a Holocaust denier) are surely infantile, and the users who try to derail discussion this way should be treated in much the same way as vandals; I suggest you report them, let an administrator warn them about their conduct (they can debate the issue, but cannot take the issue to your person), and temporarily block them if need be. If you feel that discussion can only be achieved with this sort of policing, then I should be willing to provide that for you (I'm used to getting hatemail from nationalists who want to have things their own way without discussion of the facts). However, always at the forefront of my mind are the grandparents of dear friends who died during this period.

Gareth Hughes (talk) 12:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Dear Gareth,

Thanks for the offer of support, if needed. I appreciate the sensitivity of the issue, as it is a subject which I have myself researched in some detail, and I fully accept that what happened was an appalling massacre. But there must be regard for historical truth. My position, which I made clear on the Discussion page of the article in question, is as follows:

I think Assyrians have every right to commemorate the events of World War I, which extinguished historic Syriac Christianity in districts where it had existed for many centuries. Some of the Assyrian Christian villages wiped out in WW1 were founded as early as the 3rd century AD, and many others are known to have been flourishing Christian centres during the Sassanian period, before the Muslim conquest. Their destruction is a tragedy, but I do not think their memory is best served by making exaggerated claims on their behalf.

What I will probably do is outflank this particular article by writing one of my own, say, Assyrians in World War I, so that I can structure it in as balanced a way as I can, and source my assertions properly. I'll try to include everything of value from the existing article and then propose what's left for deletion. Not that everybody will agree, of course, but it's worth a try.

Djwilms (talk) 02:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Long awaited return...

It's me Sargon. I have come back to Wikipedia for the sake of the Assyrian articles. I have recently created the Sultana Mahdokht article. What's the status of the Assyria project these days? --Sharru Kinnu III (talk) 09:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Sargon! I've been quite busy with lots of different things, so I haven't been keeping an eye here. It has been frustrating trying to get factual information into articles when it's all too easy for anti-Assyrian detractors to trash stuff, but also for Assyrian political and cultural sentiment to get in the way. I think the latter does Assyrianism a diservice. Have a look at the message above if you want to see how difficult this stuff can get. -- 00:18, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Language/Coptic

Template:Infobox Language/Coptic has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Svick (talk) 17:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Garzo! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. Please note that all biographies of living persons must be sourced. If you were to add reliable, secondary sources to this article, it would greatly help us with the current 3 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

1. Michael Turnbull - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 18:34, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Churches in communion

Hi, Garzo, I am back again after about two years. I want to know the truth about this statement and I am still after it. Are you still a student at Oxford? Hope you can find more about this point.

The Anglican Communion is an association of these churches in full communion with the Church of England (which may be regarded as the mother church of the worldwide communion) and specifically with its principal primate, the Archbishop of Canterbury. – See Wikipedia article, Anglican Communion.

In the article, Mar Thoma Church, it is mentioned (3 times) that the Mar Thoma Church is “in Communion with” the Anglican Church. If there is such an agreement with the Mar Thoma Church, then, who were the signatories of that agreement, when and where it was agreed and where is the original of this agreement kept? If there is no such agreement signed by both parties, then the statement that Mar Thoma Church is in communion with the Anglican Church is wrong. I understand that Mar Thoma Church is a fully independent Church with no strings attached to it by another church.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:51, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

The word 'communion' is being used in two different ways in these statements, and the separate meanings should be understood. Apart from the common meaning for the Eucharist, the word 'communion' refers to a formal relationship between independent churches. The Anglican Communion, is a formal network of independent churches that trace their origin from the Anglican-Episcopal churches of Britain and Ireland and their missionary endeavours. Thus, the Church of South India is part of the Anglican Communion, and like every other member church of the Anglican Communion it is a completely independent church (connected by tradition to other Anglican churches, but not obliged to them). 'Communion' can also refer to a sacramental union between churches: an agreement that the sacraments and orders of one are totally valid and equivalent to those of the other. The relationship between the Mar Thoma Church and Anglican churches (note the plural, as they are independent churches) is of this latter kind: the two bodies recognise that the baptism, communion and orders of the two bodies are equivalent. Thus, a Mar Thoma priest is totally qualified to take up a post as an Anglican priest in Australia if he wished (he would be as sacramentally qualified to do so as any Anglican from any other member church). In this manner, the Mar Thoma Church is not part of the Anglican Communion, but both the churches of the Anglican Communion and the Mar Thoma Church are in mutual sacramental union, or in communion with each other. My church is the Church of England. For me, the Church of South India is a sister church, it's part of the family. Whereas the Mar Thoma Church is a mutual friend: there is a good relationship, but it's not part of the family.

Regularly, a bishop of the Mar Thoma Church will be invited to meetings of the Anglican Consultative Council (speech by Euyakim Mar Coorilos). And Resolution 7 of ACC2 encourages all Anglican churches to recognise the Mar Thoma Church as a church in full communion (ACC2 Resolution 7).

Gareth Hughes (talk) 19:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Dear Grazo, Thanks for an immediate reply. Neduvelilmathew (talk) 07:24, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Garzo

I hope the following may be of help.

1. A Mar Thoma priest is totally qualified to take up a post as an Anglican priest in Australia if he wished (he would be as sacramentally qualified to do so as any Anglican from any other member church)- I think, the appointment in 1992 of a Marthoma priest at the Holy Trinity Anglican Church, and the Mar Thoma Church in Sydney is referred here. This arrangement went on till 1997. I don’t think that this was continued afterwards. I have included this in our Church history (Mar Thoma Sabha Charitram, Vol III, 2008. p.235-236) and recently met the two priests who were in Sydney between 1992 and 1997.

Do you know of any Anglican priest who is authorized to conduct Holy Communion in a Mar Thoma Church and vice versa? I am interested to know.

2. In the Dhubedeen prayers (Great intercession) during Holy Kurbana Mar Thoma Church uses the names of the two churches with which it has Full communion. But Anglican Church is not one of them.

3. For our meetings and conferences we invite bishops and evangelists from other churches to address the gathering. The Archbishops of Canturbury had addressed the Maramon Conventions. (For this year invitees please see the article, Maramon Convention – 2010. Most probably you may know one of them, a former Theolgy student at Oxford).

4. Are there any signed agreement with the Anglican Church in this regard?Neduvelilmathew (talk) 16:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Religion Wiki could use some help

Hi Gareth, A while ago I tried to contact you concerning the Religion Wiki I ve noticed you have edited quit some articles in this wiki. Your contribs where quit good I noticed however there where several anonymous contributors who where creating 'parody' religions. Since April 2009 I have taken over the Admin rights and have turned the wiki in a more serious platform. Nowadays we are getting a lot more contributions from serious users and ' former' wikipedians. I wonder if you would be interested to come back and give us a hand in the subjects eastern christianity and Anglicanism. We are still an MPOV but we have altered the policy a bit. For instance we have removed the "constructed" religions. A lot of users where taking disadvantage from this.

Regards --Sgt.Friso (talk) 19:37, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

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Aramaic script

Grace and peace in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I was wondering if you could please provide me with the Aramaic script for The Passion of the Christ. Thanks in advance. I look forward to hearing from you soon. With regards, Anupam^Talk 07:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

It is ܚܫܐ ܕܡܫܝܚܐ. Gareth Hughes (talk) 17:11, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank your for your prompt reply. Have a blessed Holy Week. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:07, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

The Attempted Murder Of God: Hidden Science You Really Need To Know

Hello. I've run across this article which really looks like advertising to me. I've tried a PROD but the article's creator simply removed the tag without otherwise changing the article. Google seems to be turning up nothing but advertising spam (of the "you should read this book, it's really good" sort) across a dozen or more forums. Do I ask the article creator to look for references to comply with WP:NB? Or do I just go straight to AfD? Any thoughts? Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 23:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks  :) Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 22:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Any interest in peer reviewing the Rosetta Stone article?

Hello there:

Another user and I have been working extensively on the Rosetta Stone article. It has undergone extensive revisions in the past month and I am looking for potential reviewers who can ensure that it will be able to pass Feature Article review. Since you have been active in the past on articles having to do with Ancient Egypt, I thought I should call on you to give it a once over.

Hope you can help. Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 01:00, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

a Question about the Aramaic primacy article

Hi Gareth! The article on Aramaic primacy says that the word "reshyana" (רשינא ܪܫܝܢܐ) means "righteous". I looked it up in several dictionaries (Syriac and Aramaic) and could not find such a meaning. They usually give other meanings, e.g "blame, charge, accusation; gift". Therefore I'm inclined to think this is an error in translation of this word. I wonder if you could help me understand this issue. What can you say on the subject as an expert in Syriac? Chdn777 (talk) 22:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I would naturally translate the English 'righteous into Aramaic as zaddiqa or zadqaya (both from the root ܙܕܩ).

The word reshyana is a little complicated because its root has two lexical meanings. The Pe`al (G-Stem) meaning is 'blame', and the Pa`al (D-Stem) is an odd word for 'give' (the Aph`el (C-Stem) can belong to either lexical meaning). Either way, as a noun of this form, its meaning can be 'the blame', 'the gift' and a few related meanings. I cannot read it as 'righteous' at all.

Of course, Aramaic primacy's theories rest on quite common linguistic bunk. You take a Greek word from the best sources (or an English word from your favourite translation if you know no Greek, which is common among primacists) and then scour dictionaries for an extremely marginal translation into any form of Aramaic of any period to say that the word should be a preferred lexical meaning of that Aramaic root was intended and some Greek 'translator' got it wrong. It's not science, but a manipulation to achieve a desired result. Similar methods could be employed to demonstrate that Magna Carta was originally composed in Mongolian! — Gareth Hughes (talk) 13:31, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I've been looking for any clues to this translation and a fellow forum member proposed an idea of elliptical development from 'maršyānūṯ ṭaybūṯā' (doing/giving kindness) to 'righteous' but I'm not sure we should develop this any further :) (Chdn777 (talk) 19:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC))

I don't think marshanuth taibutha helps. It's one of the phrases in J Payne Smith, so its use smacks of translation by dictionary. It would be odd to have it abbreviated to reshyana. Again there are many steps from the original text until you get the meaning 'righteous', and each of these steps requires extremely marginal interpretations to get there, whereas the accepted translation, however difficult it might be to take, is the commonsense interpretation. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 20:59, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Response

Hey, thanks for the tip. Sorry about the parentheses on the May Day article. I am new to editing Wikipedia. Been using it for years now, but just recently signed up in order to give a hand to editing some spelling and grammar mistakes and so forth that glare out at me. I'll look at the Wiki help sections before trying to add any new "notes." The India section of the May Day article was just so poorly executed, I wanted to make note of it right then and there.

Nihilianth (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I think you mean to speak to Ka Faraq Gatri. I am not she. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 15:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Greetings

Hi, I am glad to see someone with an academic knowledge of Syriac Aramaic that is active in wikipedia. Although I myself am a native speaker of eastern Syriac, my historical knowledge is limited to some books and articles here and there on the web. I have a couple of questions: Recently, I started contributing to the Syriac language article in the Arabic wiki and I also intend on improving its English and maybe Dutch counterparts. What confuses me that I don't seem to find a good definition of what Syriac really is; a possible explanation is that it goes beyond language itself to describe a unique Christian heritage. Since, from what I know, it tries to combine various northern Aramaic dialects while excluding others, namely Jewish and Mandaean ones purely on a religious/cultural basis. Do you have any thoughts on that? I have also made a couple of SVG maps, and I would appreciate any professional opinions about them. 'R'a'f'y talk 19:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Rafy! I'm glad that you're keen to write about Syriac. The exact definition of Syriac is sometimes complicated. Those of us who know the language know what it is and what it isn't, but there a few difficulties when we attempt to make a definition.

Syriac is a variety of Aramaic. All Syriac is Aramaic, but not all Aramaic is Syriac. We tend to avoid the word 'dialect' and use the vaguer term 'variety' to acknowledge the wide spectrum within Aramaic, and still also within Syriac. For some writers, Syriac is any variety of Aramaic written or spoken by Christians, and it is thus a religious collection of varieties. That definition, while still found today, is not used any more. More historically we can say that Syriac is a variety of Aramaic which grew out of the pre-Christian Aramaic dialect of Edessa specifically and Northern Mesopotamia generally. This definition thus separated Syriac from Christian Palestinian Aramaic, but also from the various Christian Neo-Aramaics, like Turoyo and Swadaya. Although these colloquial varieties are heavily influenced by Classical Syriac, they are now considered to have always had a parallel existence alongside the classical tongue. Even so, scholarly publications continue to call written Christian Neo-Aramaic by the name Neo-Syriac — things like the Swadaya renaissance poetry of Alqosh. Mandaean is quite distinctive by itself, but Jewish Neo-Aramaic varieties often have a lot in common with Swadaya. In spite of these studies, many people, especially those in the various Syriac-speaking communities, will call both classical Syriac and the colloquial Neo-Aramaic 'Syriac'. Thus, I think we can tell of three definitions

1. Syriac is Aramaic used by Christians — thus including CPA
2. Syriac is the classical tongue of Edessa and the various colloquial Syriacs — including Turoyo and Swadaya
3. Syriac is the classical tongue of Edessa, and the colloquial languages used alongside it are parallel forms of Aramaic that are distinct from Syriac proper.

The last view seems to be the scholarly consensus, while the second view is commonly held by speakers of Neo-Aramaic varieties. In everyday use, we tend to slip between these definitions. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your answer. It was very informative. By the way, why was the Aramaic Language article demoted? I couldn't find a log concerning this anywhere. Rafy talk 14:18, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I did a lot of work on that article a few years ago and it was given featured status, but over time it got a bit messy and needed more work. In particular, the article needs to be better referenced. I was going to do it, but other users decided to downgrade the article before it could be done. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 04:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Hmduklogo.jpg

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Hello, Garzo. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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King's College School Cambridge

I've recently picked up the thread on this article. I see that the article keeps chsnging. Why is this? I have seen the press articles on the school - I think there were 3 - and what is set out seems to support what was published in these articles. The only new point is the reference to the "highly misleading" letter from the Provost, but that seems to be accepted now by many parents at the school. I'm happy to contribute to the Wikipedia article, but I'm not sure I can add much. It seems such a sad story for a school with such a long standing reputation and history but it does go to show that in any walk of life its the leaders that make or break an institution.

With kindest regards

Tatnall — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatnall (talk • contribs) 07:47, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Another editor has tagged this section for non-neutrality. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 20:38, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

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Take a look at your userpage! I didn't really know where to put it so I just tucked it on top of everything. please feel free to move around. Thanks again for your contributions.--Rafy talk 22:53, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Rafy! Thank you for the award. I haven't done much work on this for a long time, but if there's anything specific you think I could help with, please let me know. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 23:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm trying to find some sources on School of Qenneshrin, Bar Bahlul and some other pre-Islamic and medieval Syriac topics, but the internet is scarce when it comes to this unfortunately. It's frustrating when you compare the amount published works concerning Arab, Jewish, and European medieval topics to Syriac ones, knowing their huge contribution to theology, linguistics, music at that period. I would be very thankful if you could show me some online sources. (The Scattered Pearls for example, I'm quite sure the Arabic edition is in public domain but I can't find any)--Rafy talk 14:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Article I wrote is redirecting to another page

Hi Gareth,

I joined Wikipedia on 07/25/2011. I had created a web page titled 'Crime master gogo' and added a link to this page on 'Andaz Apna Apna'. 'Crime master gogo' since today has been redirecting to 'Andaz Apna Apna' instead of opening separately. 'Crime master gogo' is a character in 'Andaz Apna Apna', so I was curious to understand the reason that prompted this change. Can you let me know if any details were missing?

Thanks,

Vvnmithun (talk) 03:38, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

MSU Interview

Dear Garzo,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the communityHERE, where it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your nameHERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chlopeck (talk • contribs) 23:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I am no longer very active in this role. Thank you. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 10:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Ichthus: January 2012

ICHTHUS

January 2012

In this issue...

• From the Editor
• What are You doing For Lent?
• Fun and Exciting Contest Launched
• Spotlight on WikiProject Catholicism

---

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Wikipedia • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here

Confirmation

Could you please confirm me as a user, that I might upload pictures to the wiki? I joined so I could update some images, but I can't until I become 'confirmed'. Orpherebus (talk) 06:24, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I do not confirm user status unless a good reason is given. See WP:Autoconfirmed for details of policy on automatic confirmation of users. Performing good edits over a few days will lead to autoconfirmation. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 17:06, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

WP:Anglican navbox colour discussion

Hullo, fellow WikiProject-er. We're having a discussion about the colours of Anglicanism navboxes. Please do come along and weigh in. DBD 18:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

File:Hertford shield.jpg missing description details

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Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!

Hi Garzo! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Multilingual editors are welcome! (But being multilingual is not a requirement.) Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 21:59, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

March 2014

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Naming of primates in the SOC and SCC

Hi, I noticed you dropped the last name from the current patriarch. I believe, or the sake of consistency, all patriarch should follow the same naming style. What do you think?--Kathovo talk 08:25, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that they don't all follow the same style. In fact, only two Syriac Orthodox primates have used their family names in their official nomenclature (Aphrem I Barsoum and Zakka I Iwas, Jacob III didn't); all the others have omitted their family or clan name (kunoyo). Aphrem II has chosen not to use family name in accordance with the older practice. The protocol for the new patriarch is still being put together, but it will make clear that he will be known as "His Holiness Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem II". While some news reports use the style "Aphrem II Karim", that is based on guesswork that he will follow his predecessor. All bishops use the style episcopal name + monastic name + kunoyo, without being numbered. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 09:00, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.--Kathovo talk 09:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 29

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Request for comment

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

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Abkhaz-Abaza

Hi Garzo,

I've left a comment in the talk page of Abkhaz language, asking few questions. You may be knowledgeable about the topic. I would be more than happy if you could have a look and comment. Thank you very much --Universal Life (talk) 16:23, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I am not a specialist in this area. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 19:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Faith Evangelical Free Church listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Faith Evangelical Free Church. Since you had some involvement with the Faith Evangelical Free Church redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so.

The article that this redirect links to, Austin, Minnesota, does not mention this church. Iwilsonp (talk) 00:51, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Global account

Hi Garzo! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to ping me with {{ping|DerHexer}}. Cheers, —DerHexer (Talk) 19:21, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@DerHexer — The servers constantly timeout when trying to add another account to the list. I imagine others are experiencing this technical difficulty. Is there anything I should do, or just wait? Thanks for alerting me to this. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 18:26, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Language-population update project

Hi. The 18th edition of Ethnologue just came out, and if we divide up our language articles among us, it won't take long to update them. I would appreciate it if you could help out, even if it's just a few articles (5,000 articles is a lot for just me), but I won't be insulted if you delete this request.

A largely complete list of articles to be updated is at Category:Language articles citing Ethnologue 17. The priority articles are in Category:Language articles with old Ethnologue 17 speaker data. These are the 10% that have population figures at least 25 years old.

Probably 90% of the time, Ethnologue has not changed their figures between the 17th and 18th editions, so all we need to do is change "e17" to "e18" in the reference (ref) field of the language info box. That will change the citation for the artcle to the current edition. Please put the data in the proper fields, or the info box will flag it as needing editorial review. The other relevant fields are "speakers" (the number of native speakers in all countries), "date" (the date of the reference or census that Ethnologue uses, not the date of Ethnologue!), and sometimes "speakers2". Our convention has been to enter e.g. "1990 census" when a census is used, as other data can be much older than the publication date. Sometimes a citation elsewhere in the article depends on the e17 entry, in which case you will need to change "name=e17" to "name=e18" in the reference tag (assuming the 18th edition still supports the cited claim).

Remember, we want the *total* number of native speakers, which is often not the first figure given by Ethnologue. Sometimes the data is too incompatible to add together (e.g. a figure from the 1950s for one country, and a figure from 2006 for another), in which case it should be presented that way. That's one use for the "speakers2" field. If you're not sure, just ask, or skip that article.

Data should not be displayed with more than two, or at most three, significant figures. Sometimes it should be rounded off to just one significant figure, e.g. when some of the component data used by Ethnologue has been approximated with one figure (200,000, 3 million, etc.) and the other data has greater precision. For example, a figure of 200,000 for one country and 4,230 for another is really just 200,000 in total, as the 4,230 is within the margin of rounding off in the 200,000. If you want to retain the spurious precision of the number in Ethnologue, you might want to use the {{sigfig}} template. (First parameter in this template is for the data, second is for the number of figures to round it off to.)

Dates will often need to be a range of all the country data in the Ethnologue article. When entering the date range, I often ignore dates from countries that have only a few percent of the population, as often 10% or so of the population isn't even separately listed by Ethnologue and so is undated anyway.

If Ethnologue does not provide a date for the bulk of the population, just enter "no date" in the date field. But if the population figure is undated, and hasn't changed between the 17th & 18th editions of Ethnologue, please leave the ref field set to "e17", and maybe add a comment to keep it so that other editors don't change it. In cases like this, the edition of Ethnologue that the data first appeared in may be our only indication of how old it is. We still cite the 14th edition in a couple dozen articles, so our readers can see that the data is getting old.

The articles in the categories linked above are over 90% of the job. There are probably also articles that do not currently cite Ethnologue, but which we might want to update with the 18th edition. I'll need to generate another category to capture those, probably after most of the Ethnologue 17 citations are taken care of.

Jump in at the WP:LANG talk page if you have any comments or concerns. Thanks for any help you can give!

— kwami (talk) 02:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Population of Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

Hi Gareth,

I cut the population down from 230k to 80–90k because the Ethnologue entry does not justify the rest. No idea how old the data is, or where it's from, and estimates have been declining sharply. (Some of the data in Ethnologue hasn't been reviewed for decades, and proves to be mistaken when it is reviewed.) The 80-90k includes 5k in Russia (undated), but nothing from Turkey, which didn't have many in 1981 (Ethn. 12 estimate, since removed) and probably less today. Anyway, if you believe the population is closer to 200k, and have a reliable source, please change the citation to that. — kwami (talk) 02:30, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I just found 52k in Sweden, but again no date, and can't tell if that's an ethnic figure or actual speakers. 14k undated in various other countries, more immigrant countries with no figures at all. No longer any mention of speakers in Turkey. Still only a total of 150k. Presumably the number of L1 speakers in the diaspora is decreasing, so I don't see how we can justify using undated data. — kwami (talk) 02:40, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I concur with your overall opinion. Data gathering of this kind of information has always been difficult, and Ethnologue's approach has been to publish whatever they find, often with little or no analysis. This is compounded by the arbitrary definitions of ethno-religious and linguistic communities. There is a high degree of intelligibility between speakers of Iraqi Koiné and speakers of Chaldean Neo-Aramaic, so some studies will (with good reason) conflate the two. Yet Ethnologue keeps them separate. It is even possible that speakers of Turoyo, which has low mutual intelligibility, who define themselves as Assyrian are also counted. As you say, L1 speakers are declining in diaspora. Numbers are likely to include second- and third-generation diaspora who have little real command of the language. Though it's likely that numbers are increasing in Turkey, due to refugees from Iraq and some diaspora returning to Hakkari. I think that the article should be clear on the 'guestimate' nature of any total, and show what evidence there is in footnotes. Of course, members of the Assyrian community are likely to be dismayed by such a reduction in strength. I think the only response is to ask for data. Yes, it is possible that the available data underestimates speakers in hard-to-reach areas, and the figure of 230k speakers might be possible, so perhaps it's worth keeping that figure as a possible upper estimate, noting that the current incomplete data cannot support it. -- Gareth Hughes (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, certainly s.t. to discuss in the text. BTW, an editor is already saying that using dated figures is OR. — kwami (talk) 19:54, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Deanery of Christianity (Lincoln)

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A tag has been placed on Deanery of Christianity (Lincoln) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), web content or organised event, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Dear DBD, you should always sign and date messages. Speedy deletion is a tool for removing articles that are clearly of no significance. This is defined at a very low level, and if an article is not notable, it still may be found to be significant. Deaneries of the Church of England can be easily shown to be significant, and it does not matter if the articles don't prove that. If you believe that these articles are not notable, then you should take them through the longer process of deletion. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 01:57, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

AfD deletion nomination: CofE deanery articles

Bundled together at: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deanery of Alresford DBD 20:24, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

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In urgent need for Armenian language help

Dear sir,

I have been a Wikipedia reader/contributor for a while but this is not a request/question regarding Wikipedia issues.

I'm an Iranian classical singer and we have decided to sing an Armenian piece composed by Vardapaet Komitas, named: ″Sertik malul, mi mna″. We are in urgent need of a native Armenian who can help us with the pronunciation of the piece. May I send you the lyric and the parts that we are unsure of the correct pronunciation please?

Or can I ask you to introduce me an Armenian person who can dedicate a part of their time to help us do this? Regards Princilll (talk) 07:07, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Contests

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The Religion of Islam listed at Redirects for discussion

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Lishan Didan

Hi Priest Hughes,

I am working on Lishan Didan, the page you created. I have a school assignment and am going through some sources in order to add some information to the page. I was having some trouble with the references/template you used. I am unable to add further references and I am unsure why. Is there any ideas/advice you can give me? Appreciate it. Ec725 (talk) 03:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Lishan Didan

Hi Priest Hughes,

I am working on Lishan Didan, the page you created. I have a school assignment and am going through some sources in order to add some information to the page. I was having some trouble with the references/template you used. I am unable to add further references and I am unsure why. Is there any ideas/advice you can give me? Appreciate it. Ec725 (talk) 03:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

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Did someone hack your account?

Did someone hack your account? This edit seems inappropriate. --Bejnar (talk) 19:40, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Probably he is, account is locked by a steward now. --Wiki13 (talk) 19:41, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Quick work, good job to whomever got a steward involved.--v/r - TP 19:42, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I was one of the unlucky few who saw that. - ZLEA _Talk\^Contribs 19:43, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Me too. Who is responsible for this huge hacking attack? funplussmart (talk) 19:44, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it huge, for all we know it was just one account that happened to be an admin. - ZLEA _Talk\^Contribs 19:48, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

We had dozens of accounts get compromised yesterday, including admins. I brought the matter up to the stewards on Meta. funplussmart (talk) 19:50, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @ZLEA: This isn't an isolated incident, although the modus operandi has been different. See WP:ANI#User:Esanchez7587. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 19:52, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Level 1 desysop of Garzo

Under the Level 1 desysopping procedures the administrator permissions of Garzo (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) have been temporarily removed as a suspected compromised account.

Supporting: Worm That Turned, Euryalus, Opabinia regalis, DeltaQuad, Mkdw, and KrakatoaKatie.

For the Arbitration Committee;

Worm^TT(talk) 20:02, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Level 1 desysop of Garzo

Rename article

Hi,@Garzo: you renamed the article Brahmanabad to Mansura, Sindh. Its anchient name is Brahamanabad and Mansura was built near it not on location of Brahamanabad, please find references and do some research and rename it back to Brahamanabad. If you need any suggestions plz ask. thanks JogiAsad  ^Talk 20:53, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

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Merry Christmas and Happy New year

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Happy holidays!

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Recent DYKs

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Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox ethnic group

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Special:WantedTemplates

Hi, I have been cleaning up Special:WantedTemplates and noticed that Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Sub'+'st:blatantvandal is pointing to your monobook.js pages. clearly these are false positives (basically a bug in how WP parses .js pages). it would be really great if you could add
// <syntaxhighlight lang=javascript> to the top and
// </syntaxhighlight> to the bottom of those pages. by putting these tags in comments, it won't prevent the javascript from executing, but it will remove those pages from Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Sub'+'st:blatantvandal. alternatively, if you are no longer using the monobook skin (many people are using vector these days) and don't need to keep the old page, you could just have the page deleted. thank you in advance for your help. Frietjes (talk) 20:12, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Merry Christmas and Happy New year

Hello! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a prosperous 2021 on the behalf of Christmas task force of WikiProject Holidays.

Happy holidays!

Wishing you a joyful Christmas and a happy New year. We would like to use this occasion for giving thanks for editors like you for your works on editing, maintaining and expanding this encyclopedia. May the glorious message of peace and love fill you with joy during this wonderful season.

You can do!

• Improve and assess the articles listed in Category:Christmas and its subpages. (list of categories)
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• Home Alone-a 1990 American Christmas family comedy film directed by Chris Columbus.

DYK

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"Hertevin" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Hertevin. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 10#Hertevin until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. (t · c) buidhe 23:34, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Levantine Arabic FAC

Hi Garzo, I nominated Levantine Article for FAC. As you contributed to West Semitic languages in the past and given your interest in languages, I thought you could be interested in reviewing this nomination. Thanks for any help you can provide. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:19, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Assyrian language

Hello, I have studied your opinion and your edits on Wikipedia and I want to first thank you for what you have done for the Assyrian nation. But I have a request to you, change the article about Assyrian language from Sureth to Assyrian Language, because not all Assyrians use this name to identify their language, we Assyrians of Russia, Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia, most Assyrians in Iran, Iraq we call our language Lishana Ashuraya ܠܝܸܫܵܢܵܐ ܐܫܘܼܪܵܝܵܐ or Ashurith, but in no way Suret, I know that some Assyrians use this name, but that is not a reason to change the language name completely in this encyclopedia. Please note one more thing, the Assyrian page is on the English Wikipedia and the name Suret, is not quite correct, even if it is a self-name, again the Hebrew language is not ivrit and the Russian language is not russkiy, at least on the English (international) Wikipedia. Diklath (talk) 09:07, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

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