Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ogasawara Nagatada

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. L Faraone 02:25, 29 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ogasawara Nagatada

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See list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Historical people. A review of Nihon jinmei daijiten here shows a few sentences. A quick search of Google books shows no support. The stub article does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject. Ansei (talk) 18:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Ansei (talk) 18:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Ansei (talk) 18:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- The development of consensus at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abe Motozane (2nd nomination) may be a helpful guide, especially the descriptive overview of Nihon jinmei daijiten here by Michitaro and the summary analysis here by DGG.
Is this AfD a mistake or unnecessary because there is something about 小笠原長忠 at kotobank.jp? --Ansei (talk) 18:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This AfD is not a mistake. Nagatada was a general in the Kamakura Period. He had a very small role in the "Shimotsuki Disturbance" (霜月騒動). He is not notable for much else other than being the third head of the Ogasawara clan. There is too little on him for WP:N to pass, since he has no significant role in larger events. Jun Kayama 13:18, 23 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know if he is notable enough or not, but the person described in this article did not live in the Kamakura Period and I don't see how he may have had a role in the Shimotsuki incident of 1285. Perhaps he has a namesake? 5.12.68.204 (talk) 05:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Article in JA Wikipedia is here for reference. [1] The son of 氏興 is actually 信興, the name of 長忠 is only in very limited use in some records. The actual 長忠 is the one from the Kamakura Period. Article for 信興 is here. [2]. After further research, these are my findings.

1. There are two named 長忠. One is sixth in descent from Minamoto no Yoriyoshi [3] and lived during the Kamakura Period.

2. The second is 小笠原与八郎長忠, whose first given name was 氏助, then changed to 信興, who also was referred to colloquially as 与八郎 and referred to in military chronicles as 長忠 after his ancestor. He is 19th in descent from Minamoto no Yoriyoshi [4] on the same chart.

3. To separate the two, JA Wikipedia has the article here [5] for the more famous descendant, who fought in major engagements such as the Battle of Anegawa in 1570.

Both the 13th and 16th century 長忠 are referred to in print sources in Japanese. The evidence available online information in Japanese language is in solely in blogs, which do not meet WP:RS. This article is still worth Deletion but if someone really wants to contest the findings, I am wondering how historically significant the two 長忠 are in primary language print sources. Jun Kayama 18:27, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. In the absence of any other sources, I'm not convinced that a short entry in the Nihon jinmei daijiten alone constitutes the minimum level of coverage or sourcing required for biographical articles. --DAJF (talk) 14:35, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This article falls in the same category with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ogasawara Ujioki. I appreciate User:Tenmei's efforts to help this article but it should never have been created.Chris Troutman (talk) 18:34, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In addition to his Japanese Wikipedia article, he has an article in 日本人名大辞典 (under the name 小笠原長忠), which is a reputable, published Japanese encyclopedia. Despite what Chris Troutman says, this is different from Ogasawara Ujioki, who does not have such an entry. He was also a key figure in the first siege of Takatenjin. Bueller 007 (talk) 22:30, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will also point out that the Japanese entry [6], though it is lacking inline citations, does reference a different, reputable, published academic source (「高天神小笠原信興の考察」『武田氏研究21号』　1999年。), published by Motoki Kuroda, a professor at Surugadai University. The text of the English Wikipedia article matches that of Japanese Wikipedia and 日本人名大辞典. Bueller 007 (talk) 21:48, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I am not quite certain 信興 qualifies for an independent biographical article in his own right. The majority of battles he participated in such as Siege of Kanegasaki, Battle of Anegawa, Battle of Mikatagahara are not engagements in which he played a pivotal role. Siege of Takatenjin (1574), he lost the castle to Takeda Katsuyori, and it was a relatively minor engagement. I agree with expanding the articles with his role where relevant, but even if this article were kept, it would lack both achievements and a significant number of citable sources. Jun Kayama 13:18, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.