Wikidata:Property proposal/civil rank

‎civil rank

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

Done: civil rank (P12439) (Talk and documentation)

Description	non-military rank of a civil office holder in Russian Empire
Represents	civil rank of the Russian Empire (Q28745974)
Data type	Item
Example 1	Q124310253 → Privy Councillor (Q718660)
Example 2	Ivan Goremykin (Q302668) → Active Privy Councillor, 1st class (Q2624054)
Example 3	Herold Lavrentievich Kittler (Q43424084) → college registrator (Q1959403)

Motivation

Civil (as opposed to military) rank used for every civil servant in Russian Empire (1702-1917). Similar to special rank (P5012). Henry Merrivale (talk) 12:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Гражданский чин определявший степень служебного положения человека на гражданской службе в Российской империи (1702-1917).Henry Merrivale (talk) 12:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Question why not position held (P39)? --Emu (talk) 12:38, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Emu: Because it is not a position, it is a rank. Very similar to military ranks but for civil servants. Thank you. Henry Merrivale (talk) 15:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  I guess it comes with responsibilities or attribution that make it akin to a manager position or something ? author TomT0m / talk page 21:02, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - @TomT0m: No, it not about responsibilities, and is not akin to any manager position. It is just a system of ranks (almost identical to military ranks) but for all civil servants. Once a person starts working (in some position, say as a clerk in a ministery, or as a teacher in school) they are given a rank. A person may stay in the same position for their whole life, but they will advance in rank, because of the years of service. And vice versa, a person may change positions but stay in the same rank. Thank you, Henry Merrivale (talk) 09:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MasterRus21thCentury (talk) Infovarius (talk) MaksOttoVonStirlitz (talk) evs (talk) putnik (talk) Niklitov (talk) Redboston (talk) Arbnos (talk) Erokhin (talk) Андрей Романенко (talk) AndyVolykhov (talk) Vladimir Solovjev (talk) Brateevsky (talk) Podbrushkin (talk)
Notified participants of WikiProject Russia Henry Merrivale (talk) 14:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Sounds reasonable to have a separate property. But would be nice to check if there is something similar in other countries. If yes then it probably should be more broad property. —putnik 14:08, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, civil rank was a crucially important feature for a person in Russian Empire. Other countries knew something of the same kind, beginning from Q1151136 and up to this, but I am not sure it is reasonable to have all this kind of things as the same property. Андрей Романенко (talk) 15:58, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, an important property for society.--Arbnos (talk) 21:19, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as all. In Soviet times, these were special titles and personal titles, for example: w:ru:Персональные звания руководящих и инженерно-технических работников угольной промышленности СССР, as well as ranks, for example, diplomatic rank: w:ru:Министерство иностранных дел СССР#Знаки различия, etc. — Niklitov (talk) 21:59, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Henry Merrivale, Emu, TomT0m, Putnik, Андрей Романенко, Arbnos and @Niklitov Done: civil rank (P12439). Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 02:55, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]