If understand correctly this is for shutting down https://warper.wmflabs.org ? It seems that it has least some active users.

Wait what?!

WikiMiniAtlas is separate from all the things that you list as requiring "a ton of custom WMCS support". Please do not simply kill off the entire project, just because one subproject in it is a thorn in your side.

I have spent years on developing and maintaining the WikiMiniAtlas. And especially over the course of the the last year or two I have massively improved the extraction of geodata, and have spun up a working and up-to-date OSM database to support my high mag vector tiles. Replication of that server is working smoothly and there is value to other volunteers who want to request easy access to that data.

So upon closer inspection it seems to me that at most the maps-tiles1 instance can be deleted (unless noone else speaks up about it).

Both maps-wma1 and maps-osmdb are maintained by me (to my usual - highly responsive - standard.. sorry :-P), and definitely still needed.

OK! I think I misunderstood the nature of this project; I understood the other VMs there to be in service of the tileserver. I don't need to necessarily understand all the inner workings as long as you're happy to maintain the pieces that you lay claim to.

I'll try to do a bit more research into the state of the tileserver, and will resolve to leave the other bits alone :) Sorry for the alarm.

Yeah, no worries. I suppose I should create some documentation of the bits I'm maintaining. Where would you look for this type of project level docs.?

In T322755#8385479, @dschwen wrote:

Yeah, no worries. I suppose I should create some documentation of the bits I'm maintaining. Where would you look for this type of project level docs.?

https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Maps would be the first place I would look.

Let me understand the decision-making process around this. The volunteer-maintained projects need support from the foundation when they create obvious value for the whole open ecosystem rather than ripping out all that custom infra.

@Susannaanas & all, if I understand correctly, the current virtual server of maps-warper uses Debian Stretch as an operating system whose end-of-support is in 2022, and it should be updated to a new version of Debian. (T306080)

If someone updates it, then it won't be deleted, and if nobody does it then it will be deleted as it is unmaintained and runs with OS without security updates.

I never heard about this project. Would it not be possible to move to the kubernetes cluster?

Components of wmcloud project:

• tiles server
  • deprecated and unmaintained
  • last maintained by TheDJ
  • This was the old tiles.wmflabs.org map tiling server. It is mostly replaced by the official wmflabs tile servers
  • probably still stretch.
• WMA server
  • Software service used b alternate mapping service
  • maintained by @dschwen
  • bullseye
• Map warper
  • software package to rectify and overla images and old maps on map grids
  • last maintained by @Chippyy
  • bullseye
• osm-db
  • I'm assuming this is replacing the old osmdb.eqiad.wmnet
  • maintained by dschwen
  • used by WMA
  • bullseye
• osm-nfs-1 server
  • Is this the old cloud NFS server that was moved into the project ? Or is it a new server ? Copied data ?
  • bullseye

External components

• osmdb.eqiad.wmnet
  • https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Toolforge/Database#PGAdmin_(for_OpenStreetMap_databases)
  • Used by multiple cloud and toolforge services (incl by wma and tiles in the past)
  • Both tiles and maps moved off this because the sync was messed up. But there might still be other services esp on toolforge that use it ????
• NFS tiles share
  • Used by wma, warper and tiles
  • maintained by ???
  • was this moved into the maps project ????

Regarding tiles1.. I'll see tonight if i can extract the configs etc of that server and throw it in a git repo in case anyone wants to give it a go to bring it back at some point.

In T322755#8388852, @Zache wrote:

@Susannaanas & all, if I understand correctly, the current virtual server of maps-warper uses Debian Stretch as an operating system whose end-of-support is in 2022, and it should be updated to a new version of Debian. (T306080)

If someone updates it, then it won't be deleted, and if nobody does it then it will be deleted as it is unmaintained and runs with OS without security updates.

This got my heart going. The current server of the map warper uses Bullseye (I'm the maintainer of only that instance in the project)

maps-warper3 used Debian Stretch. New server maps-warper4 maps-warper4.maps.eqiad1.wikimedia.cloud was created with Bullseye, everything migrated, and maps-warper3 deleted. T298076
maps-warper3 is marked as completed on the T306080 ticket. Should I do something more to this ticket?

I want to provide a little bit of context for this task: WMCS staff has many dozens of projects to think about (currently 175) so it's unlikely that we know much about what's happening within a project, or if that project actually contains unrelated subprojects.

The way to keep your project alive is to respond to our emails and phab tasks about maintenance tasks. As an example, please note that I opened T306080 in April and it has so far received no acknowledgement from any project admins. After 7 months of silence I concluded that the project was defunct or at the very least unmaintained. I don't think this was an unreasonable conclusion.

Thank you for the breakdown, @TheDJ! A few questions below...

In T322755#8389632, @TheDJ wrote:

Components of wmcloud project:

• tiles server
  • deprecated and unmaintained

Does this mean that maps-tiles1.maps.eqiad1.wikimedia.cloud can be deleted?

Is it also the case that the custom proxy layer was only useful for serving tiles so it can also be removed?

<snip>

• osm-nfs-1 server
  • Is this the old cloud NFS server that was moved into the project ? Or is it a new server ? Copied data ?
  • bullseye

We're moving NFS volumes off of hardware and onto project-local NFS servers. That's what this is; the NFS filesystem used within this project is now fully served by this VM.

This got my heart going. The current server of the map warper uses Bullseye (I'm the maintainer of only that instance in the project)

Also, @Chippyy Thanks for pointing out the T298076 and doing the migration. (I missed this, my mistake).

Does this mean that maps-tiles1.maps.eqiad1.wikimedia.cloud can be deleted?

Yes, after I verified that I retrieved the full config. I started it yesterday before I went to bed, but wasn't able to check this morning before I went to work if it completed successfully yet. I'll delete it myself.

Is it also the case that the custom proxy layer was only useful for serving tiles so it can also be removed?

proxy layer ? You mean the tiles.wmflabs.org. and maps.wmflabs.org entries ? If so, yes.

I have shut down the osm tiles server. DNS, ip, firewall rules and actual deletion still need to happen.

I've not yet deleted everything, as i'm not sure if lots of 'dead' requests is a problem, so just in case this separate proxy setup gets stressed. the traffic can easily be routed if need be.

Thank you @TheDJ! I can delete that VM and clean up other pieces sometime soon.

Can someone comment on whether or not the big NFS volume is still needed for other projects, or if it was only used for the tile server? (Or, the middle position -- y'all still need NFS but a smaller volume will do)?

In T322755#8405926, @Andrew wrote:

Thank you @TheDJ! I can delete that VM and clean up other pieces sometime soon.

Can someone comment on whether or not the big NFS volume is still needed for other projects, or if it was only used for the tile server? (Or, the middle position -- y'all still need NFS but a smaller volume will do)?

That is still in use for the other instances. However /srv/maps/project/tiles and /srv/maps/project/styles can be deleted. Considering the amount of data, you might want to do this.

Grr. @Andrew I had finished making a backup and now my Mac died, so I need to make a new backup of the files and this time actually push them to a repo.... Will do so tonight.

@TheDJ, ready to delete that VM now are are you still fighting with your local system?

Hi all, so https://warper.wmflabs.org/ is not accessible anymore? Any chances one could host it locally? I loved this site :(

@62mkv: Please explain specific use cases

@Aklapper idk, I just love exploring old maps, overlaying them with the current city map. Are there any other services out there that provide such functionality?

@62mkv the server is running now. It occasionally bugs out just give it a few hours to fix itself.
(For the future - This ticket/issue is not the correct place for messages about that service being down. You can use the wikimaps-warper tag for new tickets)

@Chippyy wow cool Sorry, I just googled "what is wrong with warper wmlabs" and ended up in this ticket. Will do my best to remember your advice in the future

@TheDJ I'd like to delete that VM and close this ticket. Ready?

@Andrew yes, good to go