Change Details

T311760 introduced an interim solution for hiding talk pages' lead sections on the mobile site by "placing" it within the {nav Read as wiki page} view. This task involves the work of iterating on that initial approach to ensure that lead section content remains available to people without needing to "house" it within: - A) The {nav Read as wiki page} view -- //Reason: in the long term, we plan to converge on a single mobile talk page view and in doing so, deprecate the {nav Read as wiki page} view. See T280417.// - B) The MobileFrontend `About this page` feature -- //Reason: the MobileFrontend `About this page` feature does **not** show content that is otherwise shown in desktop [tmboxes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tmbox). E.g. notice how https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology#/issues/all omits: 1) the [History Portal link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:History), 2) the "Article Milestones" section, and 3) links to the two talk page archives: [Archive 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology/Archive_1) and [Archive 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology/Archive_2).// -- //Reason: the MobileFrontend `About this page` feature displays content that is **hidden** on desktop. E.g. notice that `ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles` appears in the `About this page` view, even though it doesn’t appear on desktop (it’s hidden using TemplateStyles). More in T311760#8062686. // === Stories - As an experienced volunteer who feels responsible for maintaining the integrity of a talk page, and the content page to which it is related, I need a way of communicating with new and less experienced volunteers who are accessing a talk page, so that I can increase the likelihood that they participate on the talk page in ways that are constructive and consistent with consensuses previous talk page participants have arrived at. - As a new or less experienced volunteer who is arriving on a talk page seeking to start a new discussion, I want to know what – if any – guidelines/considerations I ought to keep in mind prior to starting said discussion so that I can avoid behaving in ways other people are likely to find unhelpful. === Requirements **Meta** - Any implementation must, at a minimum, not make it more difficult for people to recognize talk pages as containing discussions. [i] - Any implementation will need to accommodate the new topic empty state on pages which have templates, but no discussions. //More in T312599.// - This first iteration is focused on where / how the affordance for revealing this page content is shown on the page and what happens when people engage with said affordance. //Read: this task does NOT include the work of revising how `tmbox` content is displayed. Tho, it should not preclude us from iterating on how this content is show in the future.// **User Experience** The UX will be defined once we converge on an approach === Mockups {F35393378} In this proposal, the lead section content is now above the topics with an "i" info icon and reads "Learn more about editing this page" (UX copy TBC). The user will be able to tap on that area to get access to a pop-up with relevant edit notices. The "Add topic" button is also moved to the bottom part of the UI, as a sticky footer – allowing for users to start reading ahead of adding to the discussion. It also reinforces the pattern that the new topic discussion will appear at the bottom of the whole screen. **Limitations** - The new placement of the "Add topic" button might create some friction when the keyboard is present. - Unlike EN-Wikipedia which features numerous edit notices on Talk pages (also called "coffee rolls" on the team), the point was raised that many big Wikis do not present those sections. === Open questions **Open Questions** - [ ] 1. What should the copy for the link that exposes lead section content be? -- //Current: "Learn more about editing this page"// - [ ] 2. Are we combing the new "About this page" link location and treatment with the change in "Add topic" affordance? -- //If not, where does the "Learn more about editing this page" go in the interim?// === Approaches - **Approach #1: place the contents of the lead section within a collapsible section** -- //Considerations// -- //Notes// --- @Tacsipacsi entered this approach in T311760#8042100. - **Approach #2: TBD** === Done - [ ] An `===Approach` is decided upon - [ ] `===Requirements` are drafted - [ ] Web Team is consulted to ensure they are onboard with the approach we are proposing - [ ] `===Requirements` are implemented ---- === Background T311760 introduced an interim solution for hiding talk pages' lead sections on the mobile site by "placing" it within the {nav Read as wiki page} view. We think doing the above will increase the likelihood that people landing on talk pages will see the topic(s) being discussed on said page and subsequently, recognize the talk page as a place where volunteers communicate with one another about the edits they have made or are planning to make. [i] --- i. Helping people to immediately recognize talk pages as containing conversations is a core objective of the [Usability Improvements porition of the Talk Pagse Project](https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk_pages_project/Usability).

T311760 introduced an interim solution for hiding talk pages' lead sections on the mobile site by "placing" it within the {nav Read as wiki page} view. This task involves the work of iterating on that initial approach to ensure that lead section content remains available to people without needing to "house" it within: - A) The {nav Read as wiki page} view -- //Reason: in the long term, we plan to converge on a single mobile talk page view and in doing so, deprecate the {nav Read as wiki page} view. See T280417.// - B) The MobileFrontend `About this page` feature -- //Reason: the MobileFrontend `About this page` feature does **not** show content that is otherwise shown in desktop [tmboxes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tmbox). E.g. notice how https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology#/issues/all omits: 1) the [History Portal link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:History), 2) the "Article Milestones" section, and 3) links to the two talk page archives: [Archive 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology/Archive_1) and [Archive 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology/Archive_2).// -- //Reason: the MobileFrontend `About this page` feature displays content that is **hidden** on desktop. E.g. notice that `ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles` appears in the `About this page` view, even though it doesn’t appear on desktop (it’s hidden using TemplateStyles). More in T311760#8062686. // === Stories - As an experienced volunteer who feels responsible for maintaining the integrity of a talk page, and the content page to which it is related, I need a way of communicating with new and less experienced volunteers who are accessing a talk page, so that I can increase the likelihood that they participate on the talk page in ways that are constructive and consistent with consensuses previous talk page participants have arrived at. - As a new or less experienced volunteer who is arriving on a talk page seeking to start a new discussion, I want to know what – if any – guidelines/considerations I ought to keep in mind prior to starting said discussion so that I can avoid behaving in ways other people are likely to find unhelpful. === Requirements **Meta** - Any implementation must, at a minimum, not make it more difficult for people to recognize talk pages as containing discussions. [i] - Any implementation will need to accommodate the new topic empty state on pages which have templates, but no discussions. //More in T312599.// - This first iteration is focused on where / how the affordance for revealing this page content is shown on the page and what happens when people engage with said affordance. //Read: this task does NOT include the work of revising how `tmbox` content is displayed. Tho, it should not preclude us from iterating on how this content is show in the future.// **User Experience** {F35393378} - The {nav About this page} link that currently appears right beneath the talk page title ought to be: -- Moved to appear beneath the `Latest comment...` indicator that – if present – will appear beneath the page tools bar (read: the row of icons for adding the talk page to your Watchlist, editing the talk page, etc.) -- Revised so that the link reads {nav ℹ Learn more about this page} --- //Note: we ought to use the OOUI/Codex equivalent of the {nav ℹ} icon// - The user will be able to tap on the {nav ℹ Learn more about this page} link to get access to a pop-up with relevant edit notices. === Open questions **Open Questions** - [x] 1. What should the copy for the link that exposes lead section content be? -- {nav Learn more about this page} (see T312309#8179914) - [x] 2. Are we combing the new "About this page" link location and treatment with the change in "Add topic" affordance? -- No. This work will happen in T316175 - [ ] 3. Where should the {nav ℹ Learn more about this page} link appear in the time //before// T316175 is implemented? === Done - [x] An `===Approach` is decided upon - [ ] `===Requirements` are drafted - [ ] Web Team is consulted to ensure they are onboard with the approach we are proposing - [ ] `===Requirements` are implemented ---- === Background T311760 introduced an interim solution for hiding talk pages' lead sections on the mobile site by "placing" it within the {nav Read as wiki page} view. We think doing the above will increase the likelihood that people landing on talk pages will see the topic(s) being discussed on said page and subsequently, recognize the talk page as a place where volunteers communicate with one another about the edits they have made or are planning to make. [i] --- i. Helping people to immediately recognize talk pages as containing conversations is a core objective of the [Usability Improvements porition of the Talk Pagse Project](https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk_pages_project/Usability).

T311760 introduced an interim solution for hiding talk pages' lead sections on the mobile site by "placing" it within the {nav Read as wiki page} view. This task involves the work of iterating on that initial approach to ensure that lead section content remains available to people without needing to "house" it within: - A) The {nav Read as wiki page} view -- //Reason: in the long term, we plan to converge on a single mobile talk page view and in doing so, deprecate the {nav Read as wiki page} view. See T280417.// - B) The MobileFrontend `About this page` feature -- //Reason: the MobileFrontend `About this page` feature does **not** show content that is otherwise shown in desktop [tmboxes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tmbox). E.g. notice how https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology#/issues/all omits: 1) the [History Portal link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:History), 2) the "Article Milestones" section, and 3) links to the two talk page archives: [Archive 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology/Archive_1) and [Archive 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archaeology/Archive_2).// -- //Reason: the MobileFrontend `About this page` feature displays content that is **hidden** on desktop. E.g. notice that `ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles` appears in the `About this page` view, even though it doesn’t appear on desktop (it’s hidden using TemplateStyles). More in T311760#8062686. // === Stories - As an experienced volunteer who feels responsible for maintaining the integrity of a talk page, and the content page to which it is related, I need a way of communicating with new and less experienced volunteers who are accessing a talk page, so that I can increase the likelihood that they participate on the talk page in ways that are constructive and consistent with consensuses previous talk page participants have arrived at. - As a new or less experienced volunteer who is arriving on a talk page seeking to start a new discussion, I want to know what – if any – guidelines/considerations I ought to keep in mind prior to starting said discussion so that I can avoid behaving in ways other people are likely to find unhelpful. === Requirements **Meta** - Any implementation must, at a minimum, not make it more difficult for people to recognize talk pages as containing discussions. [i] - Any implementation will need to accommodate the new topic empty state on pages which have templates, but no discussions. //More in T312599.// - This first iteration is focused on where / how the affordance for revealing this page content is shown on the page and what happens when people engage with said affordance. //Read: this task does NOT include the work of revising how `tmbox` content is displayed. Tho, it should not preclude us from iterating on how this content is show in the future.// **User Experience** The UX will be defined once we converge on an approach === Mockups {F35393378} In this proposal, the lead section content is now above the topics with an "i" info icon and reads "Learn more about editing this page" (UX copy TBC). The user will be able to tap on that area to get access to a pop-up with relevant edit notices. The "Add topic" button is also moved to the bottom part of the UI, as a sticky footer – allowing for users to start reading ahead of adding to the discussion.- The {nav About this page} link that currently appears right beneath the talk page title ought to be: It also reinforces the pattern that the new topic discussion will appear at the bottom of the whole screen. **Limitations**-- Moved to appear beneath the `Latest comment...` indicator that – if present – will appear beneath the page tools bar (read: the row of icons for adding the talk page to your Watchlist, editing the talk page, etc.) -- Revised so that the link reads {nav ℹ Learn more about this page} - The new placement of the "Add topic" button might create some friction when--- //Note: we ought to use the OOUI/Codex equivalent of the keyboard is present.{nav ℹ} icon// - Unlike EN-Wikipedia which features numerous edit notices on Talk pages (also called "coffee rolls" on the team), the point was raised that many big Wikis do not present those sections.The user will be able to tap on the {nav ℹ Learn more about this page} link to get access to a pop-up with relevant edit notices. === Open questions **Open Questions** - [ ] 1. What should the copy for the link that exposes lead section content be? -- //Current: "Learn more about editing this page"// - [ ] 2x] 1. Are we combingWhat should the new "About this page"copy for the link location and treatment with the change in "Add topic" affordancethat exposes lead section content be? -- //If not, where does the "Learn more about editing this page" go in the interim?// === Approaches - **Approach #1: place the contents of the lead section within a collapsible section**{nav Learn more about this page} (see T312309#8179914) -- //Considerations//- [x] 2. Are we combing the new "About this page" link location and treatment with the change in "Add topic" affordance? -- //Notes//-- No. This work will happen in T316175 --- @Tacsipacsi entered- [ ] 3. Where should the {nav ℹ Learn more about this approachpage} link appear in T311760#8042100. - **Approach #2: TBD**the time //before// T316175 is implemented? === Done - [ - [x] An `===Approach` is decided upon - [ ] `===Requirements` are drafted - [ ] Web Team is consulted to ensure they are onboard with the approach we are proposing - [ ] `===Requirements` are implemented ---- === Background T311760 introduced an interim solution for hiding talk pages' lead sections on the mobile site by "placing" it within the {nav Read as wiki page} view. We think doing the above will increase the likelihood that people landing on talk pages will see the topic(s) being discussed on said page and subsequently, recognize the talk page as a place where volunteers communicate with one another about the edits they have made or are planning to make. [i] --- i. Helping people to immediately recognize talk pages as containing conversations is a core objective of the [Usability Improvements porition of the Talk Pagse Project](https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk_pages_project/Usability).