Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive49

External Links

Similar to the whole business of changing all the "Trivia" sections into "Notes" sections, this is just a heads up for anyone who wants to chip in for a mundane task: if you ever see a link to TFU.info (or a similar toy site) in the External Links section of a character's page, relocating it to that character's Toys section would be super-awesome. (And if the External Links section subsequently becomes empty, get rid of it.) I wouldn't really describe this as a task with much urgency behind it, but it will make characters' pages look consistent, and consistency looks nice. It's really a minor edit that's easy and quick to do, and I'd appreciate some help in this fiasco. An example of how this is supposed to look like can be found at Optimus Primal's toy section. So keep an eye out while you're bored and clicking that "Random Page" button. :) --Ascendron 12:37, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

I've been trying to do these whenever I come across one. --Khajidha 12:44, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

On a similar note, but requiring slightly more effort, if anyone would like to start adding patents from my sandbox to the appropriate toy sections that would also be appreciated. --Khajidha 10:33, 1 December 2010 (EST)

Except for very toy-dense pages, I kind of like them on the bottom, in a standard location, with other external links, where I can just hit the "page down" key to find them. TFU has a "variations" section with all the character's toys you would ever hope to look for. But whatever. - Starfield 12:39, 1 December 2010 (EST)

Delete blocked user's page

Any chance we could have somebody delete User:Jolt Volt? It's got a bunch of links nobody can edit to fix because the page is protected and there's no real point to keeping it around, anyway. —Interrobang 06:06, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

No one objected, so I've deleted the page. --abates 19:53, 10 November 2010 (EST)

I keep getting logged out

For some reason, I keep getting logged out at random intervals, even if I select "Remember Me" at the login screen. ---Blackout- 10:47, 29 October 2010 (EDT)

How often? Logging in sets up some cookies which are set to eventually expire. They last a month or two at least though. --abates 17:05, 29 October 2010 (EDT)

I specifically said "random intervals". Also, the problem doesn't seem to be on the wiki's side, because it's happening at all wikis I regularly visit. (Specifically, this wiki, a Wikia one I run and am hoping to move, and multiple Wikipedias.) ---Blackout- 05:47, 30 October 2010 (EDT)

The default expiry for cookies in MediaWiki is 30 days, so that's probably what you're experiencing. --abates 22:44, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

The problem is it's happening much more often that 30 days.

Also, FYI, the problem is now only happening at this wiki. ---Blackout- 04:12, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Hmm, I don't know then - I can only suggest checking the expiry on the cookies in your browser and see when they're set to expire. --abates 04:51, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Ted Nolan interview?

A few places on this wiki mention Ted Nolan, who--as far as anyone can tell--made the first ever Internet post about Transformers. Well, looking at his address his gave in that post, he apparently still lives there, and this is very close to my residence, within easy driving distance. Would anyone be interested in seeing if I could set up an interview to see what he thinks after 25+ years? Thanos6 19:51, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

I imagine it might be of interest to some fans, but unless he's ended up working on the show or something, probably beyond the remit of this wiki. --abates 04:53, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Uh... maybe you should shoot him an email first? -hx 06:22, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Immediately show up on his doorstep without warning and ask him if Rumble is red or blue. --ItsWalky 08:47, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

I might be crazy, but I'm not stupid. Of course I would send him an e-mail or a letter or something first (though the image of pounding on the door and shouting "Ted Nolan! Your sins from the past have caught up with you at last, the Spawn Of Unicron are here to take you to The Pit!" IS amusing). Thanos6 17:11, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Universe '08 Minicons + 'Energon fizzy jellies'

Browsing in The Entertainer I found 5 packets with the '08 universe logo on the top but lacking any Hasbro logo whatsoever. They instead sport the tag 'Boystoys' which is apparently a UK confection company. Inside comes a little packet of 'Energon fizzy jellies' and most surprisingly one of the 12 minicons previously released as a giftset in walmart I think. They were blind packed so I got Suppressor, Skyhammer, Knock Down and 2 Cloudrakers. I've never seen these before and neither had the cashier but they don't look like knock offs. Anybody with more wiki experience know where these should be filed, if at all?

Those sound like knockoffs to me. --NCZ 15:58, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Well what's the quality of the paintjobs and the plastic on the Minicons like? --Detour 15:59, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Well, certainly looks official enough at first glance. --Detour 16:02, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Thats them Detour- quality feels like the expected level of a genuine product. I've handled some of the KO G1 gestalts and these are nothing like those

Looks pretty official. Guess I a) need to read more carefully, and b) stop being so paranoid. --NCZ 16:10, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Gobots on the wiki... again

I only just noticed that the Allspark Almanac II retcons the GoBots as being their universe's version of Transformers, and retcons Gobotron into a form of Primus. So, now that they're officially Transformers, Primus officially exists in their universe, AND they even have their own universal stream indicator (Gargent), should we include GoBots on the wiki as their own continuity family? There was some talk about this on the GoBots talk page back in August, but it never went anywhere. -- Semysane 16:32, 7 November 2010 (EST)

I second this, for the reasons Semysane enumerated so well. --Khajidha 16:46, 7 November 2010 (EST)

I'm for both GoBots and Robotix getting articles. —Interrobang 17:04, 7 November 2010 (EST)

Oh yeah, add my vote to Robotix, too. --Khajidha 17:07, 7 November 2010 (EST)

I don't know if I really want to have the "Allspark Almanac retconned something" argument again.--Rosicrucian^Talk 17:11, 7 November 2010 (EST)

I'm extremely uneasy with this. --M Sipher 17:27, 7 November 2010 (EST)

I strongly vote "no" on this. You want AN article, structured like we have with, say, Visionaries? Okay, fine. But all 100+ characters and as many hours of fiction? No. The Almanac's 25-years-after-the-fact out-of-universe retcons notwithstanding, GoBots and Robotix have nothing to do with Transformers. Jeeper Creeper never appeared in any Transformers fiction, never interacted with any Transformers characters, is completely unrelated to any and all Transformers concepts, and does not belong on a Transformers wiki. I think it speaks volumes that like 11 months after people voted "oh yeah, we'll start a GB wiki too" actually nothing has been done. There's very little knowledge, interest, or drive behind the topic. And there are probably five or six orders of magnitude less knowledge, interest, or drive behind Robotix. Including them would demean and dilute everything we've put together here and the interests that led us to try to put it together in the first place. So, again, I vote no. --Thylacine 2000 21:42, 7 November 2010 (EST)

Complete agreement. You want to chronicle everything GoBots that wasn't in TFs, then put forth the effort to make a separate GoBots wiki. I'll certainly help take pictures for it. But til then... --M Sipher 23:08, 7 November 2010 (EST)

Yes. Exactly. Make Robotix & Gobots overview pages, but not entries for every character or event. -hx 07:13, 8 November 2010 (EST)

Thylacine, the fact that nothing has been done with the GoBots wiki is not OUR fault, we've been trying to get it started, but haven't heard anything from the powers that be yet. You've participated in that discussion, so don't act like this is news to you. -- Semysane 18:56, 8 November 2010 (EST)

"The powers that be" do not have a global monopoly on the ability to set up a wiki. It's been a year. But regardless, the point remains that a systematic name-by-name treatment of GoBots / Robotix doesn't belong here. --Thylacine 2000 22:12, 8 November 2010 (EST)

And why not, exactly? They are officially Transformers now. -- Semysane 23:42, 8 November 2010 (EST)

No they aren't. There's something called "GoBots" and something called "Robotix" that represent real TF continuities, deserving a brief writeup (at most). Almost none of the characters and events from GoBots, and none whatsoever from Robotix, have ever appeared under the Hasbro label and thus are not official TF product, and will never be appropriate for inclusion here under these conditions. The ones that have actually existed within TF qualifying conditions--about 8 GoBots from about 3 stories plus some background easter eggs--are already here. Adding in every other GoBot because "they're a team" would be no less absurd than adding in every single Marvel superhero that never appeared in Transformers, just to match up with the small handful of Marvel superheroes who did appear in Transformers and are already here. Where are our articles about Daredevil and Phoenix and Baron Zemo? You can't just namedrop a universe and then expect all its uncounted thousands of inhabitants, locations, and historical events to be pertinent. --Thylacine 2000 23:55, 8 November 2010 (EST)

Try actually READING what I'm saying instead of responding to what you WISH I was saying. They didn't just namedrop the universe, it was said specifically that the GoBots are their universe's version of Transformers and specifically that Gobotron is a form of Primus. That is not just namedropping the universe. -- Semysane 00:14, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Which doesn't change that >99% of the GoBots stuff did not ever appear in any Transformers-branded fiction or toyline, and therefore has no place on this wiki. --M Sipher 00:51, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Junkions

I want to tackle the Junkion character articles one of these days, but after attempting to write the first two, I figure I need some advice on how to deal with the loose definition of a Junkion character. Most Junkion models represent multiple characters that are discernable either only because they stand next to each other in one shot/panel or because they have different colors, and then one still wouldn't know which color represents the "character" as named in TCA (don't have the book, but I doubt it contained colored versions of the Junkion models). Then there's models that were used for non-Junkions, most of which are pretty clearly not the same character, but some, like hood Transformer and pole vault Transformer, are ambiguous. So, what'd like help on is an idea how to write character articles on characters that are not defined as characters. Geewunling 05:00, 8 November 2010 (EST)

Ron Friedman auctions

Ron Friedman, one of the G1 cartoon's writers, is auctioning off a TON of old scripts with hand written marginal revisions and whatnot. These are the kind of things the Wiki needs to have access to. Another charity auction drive, perhaps? -hx 15:24, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Keep me in the loop on this. I think I'd be the logical person to curate this material, and I'm always up for giving to a good cause. --Jimsorenson 16:32, 9 November 2010 (EST)

I've set up a thread at Allspark just in case. --Lonegamer78 17:22, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Okay, so Monzo has registered an account and is bidding on the first draft of TFTM. Are there any other ones we think warrant significant time/financial investment, or should we just hope for the best? -hx 10:54, 10 November 2010 (EST)

1) Please don't tell me that both Monzo and Jim are bidding on the same thing. 2) The Wiki has a cash surplus at the moment. I'm in favor of donating it to the cause, but I want to get some yeas first, since it's not technically my money to spend. --ItsWalky 21:38, 11 November 2010 (EST)

Don't worry, Monzo and I (and a few other serious bidders) are coordinating our efforts to try to maximize the benefit to the fandom and minimize our own financial outlay.--Jimsorenson 22:20, 11 November 2010 (EST)

You have my vote to use the money, as this is to acquire unique research material pertinent to our subject. --Khajidha 07:04, 12 November 2010 (EST)

You have mine too. ---Blackout- 07:08, 12 November 2010 (EST)

I wouldn't have posted it here if I wasn't in support of the wiki getting involved. -hx 09:27, 12 November 2010 (EST)

Aaaaaand Jim has some money. --ItsWalky 10:13, 12 November 2010 (EST)

Interview for Examiner journalist about Wikia history

I am a "citizen journalist" writing for Examiner.com about issues related to bad management practices and content concerns at wikis on the Internet. I am working on a new piece that will focus on the current defection trend from Wikia to new wiki sites, based on dissatisfaction over the Oasis skin and how it's been handled by Jimbo, Gil, and company. If there is a senior "bureaucrat" or owner/stakeholder here who would be willing to talk on the record about how this wiki split from Wikia, I would appreciate setting up a time we could talk for an interview. My e-mail is ResearchBiz (at) gmail.com. I am not at all likely to check back here, so please correspond by e-mail. Thank you! -- Thekohser 09:58, 11 November 2010 (EST) (Gregory Kohs)

I sent him a link to [1]. --ItsWalky 10:59, 11 November 2010 (EST)

Redirects with parentheses

An issue came up on the Talk:Dead End (WFC) page that should be discussed more widely. The modern continuity Dead End is actually spelled "Deadend". There is a Movie character who was called "Deadend" in a novel, but his actual page is at "Jolt (Movie)". Should the modern continuity Deadend be at "Deadend" or should it be at "Deadend (Prime)" since there is another character named "Deadend"?

I think "Deadend" may be a bad example since it may be considered just a mistake in the novel and end up an exception to the rule. But what about as a general policy? The question boils down to if there should be alternate name redirects with disambiguation parentheses. Examples: "Rodimus Prime (G1)" => "Hot Rod (G1)" , "Orion Pax (G1) => "Optimus Prime (G1)" , "Tankor (G1) => "Octane" , "Axalon (Animated)" => "Alpha Supreme".

The arguments against using redirects with parentheses are that users will never use them and that they clutter up the search drop down box, potentially dropping off entries with actual pages.

The arguments for using redirects with parentheses are that they appear in the search drop down box and the user could go directly to the article they want. Also, if there are missing entries in the drop down box, that seems like missing information. Example, typing in "Axalon" drops down the terms "Axalon" "Axalon (Armada)" "Axalon (BW)" and "Axalon (disambiguation)" but no "Axalon (Animated)". It could escape the user's notice that there is even is an Axalon in Animated. If it was there, the user might be like, "Oh, cool, there was an Axalon in Animated." <click>

My opinion is that the potential for dropping off actual pages from the search box is a good argument. But I really like the alternate names to show up. Could the search box be made bigger? - Starfield 12:10, 18 November 2010 (EST)

Hm, I just posted over at Tornado (Marvel) about this kind of thing, then saw this. I think it has to be looked at on a case-by-base basis, but for some reason all the Skyscorchers have redirects from their European names (even though we don't do this for Japanese names, do we?) leaving a whole bunch of flashing links across the wiki. Surely we could cut that out? --Emvee 13:58, 18 November 2010 (EST) [edit] Just had the Skyschorchers' situation explained to me over at Tornado's page...that's probably a separate issue of its own. --Emvee 14:08, 18 November 2010 (EST)

While I can see both sides, I'm not sure the purpose of the search box is to alert people to things they didn't know about. Its purpose is to help people find what they're specifically looking for. Leave the "informative" functionality to the disambig page. JW 15:36, 18 November 2010 (EST)

But what if I'm specifically looking for the Animated Axalon? Without the redirect, I type "Axalon" and it's not in the list that drops down. Maybe I hit enter and go to the disambig page and see it there, or maybe I assume the page for it doesn't exist yet. --abates 16:51, 18 November 2010 (EST)

Is it technically impossible to have redirects be shoved to the bottom of the search box list, thus not "cluttering it up", but still having them appear? Mammalian Verisimilitude 19:22, 18 November 2010 (EST)

I simply think that every valid name for a character should have a redirect to the appropriate article because that article should be in that location as well. I'm not sure why the various Animated Supremes had their starship name redirects deleted, or why there is no redirect from "Rodimus (G1)". As abates said not having at least a redirect from Axalon (Animated) could lead to the impression of a lack of data, having the redirect shows that the data exists and where to find it.--Khajidha 08:33, 19 November 2010 (EST)

I agree with abates, at least some redirects with parentheses are needed, such as Axalon (Animated). --TX55^TALK 09:36, 19 November 2010 (EST)

Hey guys!

We seem to be nearing 12,000 pages. ---Blackout- 02:02, 19 November 2010 (EST)

Keep a sharp watch to verify which one is the milestone article, and I'll be happy to make up the icon and slap it on.--Rosicrucian^Talk 02:50, 22 November 2010 (EST)

"Generation 1 Autobots", etc. categories

I know we talked about this when the nationality thing went down, but is there any support or opposition to the idea of things like "Generation 1 humans" to help divide up the gigantic franchise character categories? —Interrobang 18:06, 21 November 2010 (EST)

I definitely support this idea to split the categories by categorizing characters by franchise and faction/race so things could be more sorted.. (I've used it for recent franchises in the wikia.) --TX55^TALK 20:20, 21 November 2010 (EST)

We are so fucking NOT putting up categories by "race". --M Sipher 21:26, 21 November 2010 (EST)

I'm pretty sure he meant Transformer and human categories, dude. —Interrobang 21:31, 21 November 2010 (EST)

Yes, I only refer to Transformers (Autobots/Decepticons) and humans. I forgot there are other race. (oops) Thanks for explaining for me. :D --TX55^TALK 04:26, 22 November 2010 (EST)

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that at this point. I think this is mainly about creating subcategories to break some of the ginormous categories down to more manageable size. For example, Category: Humans would have subcategories like Category: Generation 1 humans and Category: Unicron Trilogy humans. I would support that. --Khajidha 21:33, 21 November 2010 (EST)

Does anybody else care one way or the other? —Interrobang 15:14, 24 November 2010 (EST)

It would be a heck of a lot easier to find specific dudes, I'd love categories based on franchises. Antimatter 15:20, 24 November 2010 (EST)

It all sounds reasonable to me. --abates 16:08, 24 November 2010 (EST)

Categories based on franchises definitely sounds good. --TX55^TALK 20:07, 24 November 2010 (EST)

Figures prone to breakage that aren't GPS could do with their own page (like the GPS list)

Seeing as my comment concerning PCC double clutch was removed yesterday I'd like to propose the creation of a list of figures that are known for being fragile and breakage as a result of poor construction and NOT GPS. Double clutch's ball joints for example or animated arcee's thumbs. Wouldn't be a definitive list by any means but more of a reference list for collectors whose figure just broke becuase of a common design flaw rather than the handling of the figure. Would be a useful reference list is all im saying.

I can see the merit, but it seems quite subjective...and ultimately every toy is prone to breakage. I could point to a load of my G1s that have "battle damage", and who's to say the movie toys of today won't be similarly beaten up in 25-odd years' time? --Emvee 17:57, 25 November 2010 (EST)

Comics Featured Characters

Would anyone mind if I excised the "Regular" and "Guest" subheadings in the Humans column? It screws up the numbering and it's not even consistent - Walter Barnett (for one) jumps from one heading to the other as the comic goes on. I'd go ahead and do it, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone has any particular affection for them. --Emvee 15:24, 6 December 2010 (EST)

Please do. —Interrobang 17:07, 6 December 2010 (EST)

Done & done --Emvee 03:39, 9 December 2010 (EST)

12,000th article

I didn't actually notice till just now, but Reachout is apparently the 12,000th article. Too bad he has nothing to his name whatsoever, but, uh, cheers. —Interrobang 20:36, 9 December 2010 (EST)

Or is it Airlift? The count shows 12,024 articles, and Reachout is only the 24th newest. Shouldn't the 25th newest actually be the 12,000th? --Bluestreak7 15:20, 10 December 2010 (EST)

Bluestreak's reasoning seems sound. Who was supposed to make up the milestone marker? --Khajidha 15:30, 10 December 2010 (EST)

Reachout was the second article on the list when we were at 12,001. The new article list isn't always accurate. --abates 15:58, 10 December 2010 (EST)

I'll buy that. I'm seeing Reachout as 26th newest currently. --Tigerpaw28 23:10, 10 December 2010 (EST)

Doctor Who connection?

Between the Octuses of various continuities who have been confirmed, either by authorial intent and/or the Almanac, combined with the pure and unquestionable fact that the same, individual Death's Head who interacted with the TFs in Marvel UK is the same that met the Doctor, can we note in this wiki that the Whoniverse(s) have a tangental connection to the TF multiverse and in doing so may well create one of, if not the largest fictional universes in existence? I am VERY excited about this. Solaris Prime 02:34, 12 December 2010 (EST)

I think we already note that the Whoniverse has a tangential connection to the tF multiverse - after all, the Doctor does have a page here, as do the Daleks. If it's massive fictional universes based on tangential connections you're after, you might be interested to know that Doctor Who forms part of the ever-expanding Westphallverse, see links below

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers.html - introduction to the Westphallverse

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers%28full%29.jpg - diagram showing crossovers

I don't know if they count animated shows, but given the number of crossovers between all the various Sunbow cartoons it's totally possible that there's a link between at least one of them and one of the 280 shows in the Westphallverse, meaning that GI Joe, Inhumanoids, Transformers, Jem and the Holograms etc. would all share a universe with the Doctor. This universe also contains Red Dwarf, Buffy, Firefly, all the Star Treks, Lost and the X-Files. The only downside is that universe only exists in a 12 year-old boy's head. Multiverses are tricky things. --Emvee 05:31, 12 December 2010 (EST)

Hm, now I read it again, they don't count cartoons because it would make the universe insanely huge. --Emvee 05:50, 12 December 2010 (EST)

Image plagiarism

From the other site

The point of Mr. P got some loopholes, but I admit I can't figure out how to retort him so far. (Because I'm barely familiar with any copyright statement of a Wikipedia-based system such as cc-by-2.0 or others.) Yes, apparently a person doesn't own anything which is not created by him/herself, but I don't think it is a good reason to take any screencap or scanned image without any recognition, since it is processed by another person. --TX55^TALK 12:05, 15 December 2010 (EST)

Well just tell him it's not even a question of copyrights, but rather of Teletraan-1 wanting to have different content from TFWiki. Hence, no identical images. --Detour 12:11, 15 December 2010 (EST)

Right. It's not copyright, it's courtesy.--63.203.180.99 12:57, 15 December 2010 (EST)

I am laughing so hard at the assertion that our wiki is "so much fluff," when OUR wiki is just THEIR wiki but with twice the information! --ItsWalky 13:42, 15 December 2010 (EST)

Wow. That guy has got to take a reality check. (I took the liberty of posting that back there too.) --84.193.193.10 13:47, 15 December 2010 (EST) (-Blackout-, can't be bothered to log in)

While making fun of Wikia diehards is fun and warranted, I think posting why he needed a reality check instead of just laughter would have been more, well, useful. --ItsWalky 14:43, 15 December 2010 (EST)

I think the dude over there is trolling. --abates 18:09, 15 December 2010 (EST)

Thanks guys for giving advices and replying while I was away. Yes, it is "courtesy", the word I want to use. How come I forgot the word nor mentioning to keep the diversity between the two sites. Haha --TX55^TALK 21:27, 15 December 2010 (EST)

Guess somebody want to keep the funny stay — by saying hahahaha(ridiculous plus hilarious) stuff. --TX55^TALK 21:56, 15 December 2010 (EST)