A follow-up to Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe, in which our two young men learn a lot more about themselves, life and love. It's a long book, and I thought after the first 100 pages or so that I wouldn't go on with it; I thought it was well done, and important, and probably would be marvelous for its _target audience. But it wasn't meant for the 70-something straight white woman demographic, and it didn't seem to be moving the chicos along very far from where we left them in the first book, so even though I love the characters I almost let them carry on without me. But the pace picked up, and a lot more exploration---"mapping" is the recurring metaphor--of their place in the world started to happen. Events developed very quickly once Ari and Dante accepted that they were in love, and
began working through their quest for identity on several fronts.

This story is set in the late 1980s, when AIDS was devastating gay men, and families were doing their best to hide the true nature of their deaths. It seems to me that that aspect of the time is not given quite enough weight here. I know teenagers consider themselves bullet-proof, but the adults in their life were not worried enough. I remember that epidemic, and there was palpable fear everywhere, because nobody truly understood the disease or who was at risk.

If anything, this novel is a bit too affirmative, as friends and family of the protagonists are overwhelmingly accepting and supportive of their relationship. I know the author himself did not experience this sort of happy youth, and was not even able to acknowledge to himself that he was gay until mid-life, with the aid of a therapist. Perhaps he has written this story as an alternate narrative for himself...a dream of what might have been. Not that everything is sunshine and roses---there is insecurity, grief, angst, muddled-up emotion, but nobody is ever seriously floundering for very long before a friend or a parent buoys them up. There are stupid adults and typical teenagers too, but they get their comeuppance or see the light eventually. At one point near the end, Dante quotes Hemingway's Jake Barnes...and it's very apt. It would be pretty to think that this all could have happened. ( )

You guys! I am speechless. I have no idea why every single review that I came across for Ari and Dante 2 on the gram was disappointing because I, on the contrary, was deeply invested and enamoured by it.

Ari and Dante dive into the waters of the world is the aftermath of them discovering the secrets of the universe. (As if it was not obvious already)

‘In Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe, two boys in a border town fell in love. Now, they must discover what it means to stay in love and build a relationship in a world that seems to challenge their very existence.’

Benjamin Alire Sáenz lived up to his reputation of weaving stories that not only touch and warm your heart but also are incredibly insightful.

‘The world would be a better place if everyone did more thinking and less talking. There might be a lot less hatred.’

Through the lives of Aristotle and Dante, the author speaks out about homophobia, racism, grief, mental health, and what it feels like to be surrounded by people that love you, yet craving for it. The delicate balance he creates between the struggles of balancing a relationship in a world riddled with homophobia along with everything else is unmatchable.

‘You're every street I've ever walked. You're the tree outside my window, you're a sparrow as he flies. You're the book that I am reading. You're every poem I've ever loved.’

Read this book because it might help you cope with loss.

Read this book because it might teach you how to Love.

Read this book because it might show you how to be loved.

Read this book because it will surely leave a lasting impression on you. ( )

“So I became an artist and a poet so I could paint and write the things that mattered—even if it only mattered to me. And that is the only thing that matters.”

Aristotle and Dante Dive into the Waters of the World is the sequel to Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe by Benjamin Alire Sáenz. It is a Young Adult LGBT fiction. While I enjoyed this novel, I did not fall in love with it as I did with the first novel.

“I’d never found it difficult to keep my mouth shut—but maybe I should think about keeping my mind shut when it came to judging the things other people did that I didn’t understand.”

Aristotle and Dante Dive into the Waters of the World is centered around Ari’s senior year, his relationship with Dante, and accepting himself and others. Ari goes through a lot of growth in the relationships present throughout this novel, including the relationship with his parents, siblings, Dante, and friends.

“I wondered why everyone thought about God so much and I tried not to think of him at all. Because so many people had decided he didn’t love me. I wondered why people felt they could speak for God.”

Ari and his father reach a peak in their father-son relationship for the first time in years. Ari’s dad opens up a lot to Ari in ways he hasn’t before, and their relationship improves dramatically. Ari treats his friends better and makes more effort to maintain his friendships. Best of all, Ari develops into someone he doesn’t hate and starts to embrace and accept who he is. During this novel, Ari does experience a major loss that sets his character growth progress back. Dante and the other characters don’t seem to develop much, if at all, except for Ari’s dad.

“But when we got in a war, they told us that we were fighting to defend the freedoms that we have. They didn’t tell us we were only fighting for the people who agreed with whatever the hell our politics were.”

If you have been curious about Ari’s brother, Bernardo, he makes an appearance in this novel. Most of your questions—if you still have some—will be answered.

“When you know you’ve made a mistake, don’t live in it.”

While Ari has more friends, their characters are slightly flat. Sometimes they feel individual and well-rounded until they get sentimental and deep, and their statements sound like they belong to Ari. I understand certain things need to be said, but the right character must say them. If that character needs to be the person to say it, then it should be in their voice and style.

Overall, I still think this is an excellent novel with some crucial life lessons about recognizing the world around you, the dangers, and the changes we need to make—individually and as a society. Aristotle and Dante Dive into the Waters of the World is a touching story about a young man navigating the last steps into adulthood and the importance of carrying the right people into the future with you. We are all important to the universe, and everyone deserves to love and be loved. ( )

Aristotle and Dante Dive into the Waters of the World
Aristotle and Dante, Book 2

I Picked Up This Book Because: #Bookopoly/Continue the series

Media Type: Audiobook
Source: PW Public Library
Dates Read: 4/18/23 - 4/21/23
Stars: 3.5
Narrator(s): Lin-Manuel Miranda

The Characters:

Aristotle Mendoza:
Dante Quintana:
Parents, School Friends

The Story:

This book had its ups and downs for me. Some of the parts were incredibly moving and some were incredibly boring. Dante and Ari are growing up and preparing to face the world. It’s a world much different than we face today. I spent a good part of the beginning of this book wondering when it was set (1988 if you are curious). The difference in American culture surrounding gay relationships then to now in 2023 is somewhat blinding but also somewhat the same. There are still bigots and people who can’t accept the happiness of others but there is also the lack of pride and being open with the world about your true self.

The Random Thoughts: ( )

Every so often a book, or set of books, comes along that changes your life, or soothes an ache you hadn’t known was there. That was what these two books have done for me.

Everyone, regardless of age, gender, or sexual orientation can find something to relate to.

Like Ari I know what’s it’s like to feel so much, to want to say so much, and not be able to. I know what’s it’s like to feel undeserving of the love and affection of those I care about more than life itself - and like Ari, through my own journey through life, I’ve come to know just how wrong I’ve been.

***light spoilers below***

Aristotle and Dante would have been about 43 years old on June 26, 2015 when marriage become legal for all in all 50 states. They would be about 49 today. I’d like to think that they made it. That their love transcended all of the obstacles they faced and that somewhere out there in a desert in Texas in a spot so dear to them both they spend their wedding anniversary gazing up at the stars. ( )

While I really enjoyed the first book, this one took time for me to get through. I felt that it should have been titled Ari Dives into the Waters of the world. More so that it was Ari who was telling the story and Dante was secondary to it. The character of Dante got on my nerves, always questioning Ari’s love for him. While I get that Ari does love Dante, to take such a huge step at the end of the book seemed a little far fetched and played into Dante’s cling-i-ness. I did laugh at times, did cry at times. I liked how Ari was able move past a lot of things that he felt were obstacles in his growth.

Thank you Libro.fm for the ALC of this book. Lin Manuel could not have been better narrator, which really makes this review 3.5 stars. ( )

This is the sequel the first book deserves ( )

I Love this Book!

That said, it would have rated the same 5 Stars as the original Aristotle and Dante
except...what is the point of including Bernardo at all? He adds no dimension to the plot.

Also, "rip" Ari's "heart" and "hope" make little sense while a lot of his emotion repeats and repeats.

Why RAFT OF THE MEDUSA is a favorite painting pales when you read its history. ( )

i never understood why people thought the first book was so amazing and life changing. it was good, sure, but thats where it ended for me.
if the first book affected people the way this book affected me, then i see now. this book was fucking beautiful, and i'm no dante, so i dont use that word lightly.
i dont think i need to read another book ever again. ( )

Benjamin Alire Saenz is one of the most sensitive writers I've ever read. Such depth in his portraits of the human soul. I had stopped reading over twho-thirds through because I knew a "shocking loss" (as documented in the jacket blurb) was coming to Ari, and I didn't want to discover it! (Ingrid said that's why she sometimes wishes she didn't read blurbs.) But I should have trusted Mr. Saenz and the YA genre because (1) he is such a consummate writer and (2) YA is generally less harsh than adult writing. Not that Ari's loss was not devestating, but it was portrayed realistically and his support group was there for him. Even a woman who had been unkind to his Mom and the family came to offer condolences, and thus forgiveness blossomed, and Ari learned another lesson. And when Ari wallowed too long in his grief, friends and family gently booted him to LIVE, like his Dad would have wanted. So much grace, love, and integerity in this gorgeous novel. ( )

The first half of the book went slow for me, but the second half grabbed me by the heart and would not let me go. So many tears of grief and loss and joy and love...I just loved it so much. ( )

Насколько я была в восторге от первой книги, настолько же я осталась равнодушна к этой. ( )

A million thank you's for the win of this book! I couldn't wait to get a copy, since I loved the first book so much, and it didn't disappoint!
I was taken immediately back into Aristotle and Dante's world. It's the 80's, they are in love and gay. It wasn't accepted then. The torment, mostly from the inside, was heartbreaking at times. I rooted for them both every step of the way!
I laughed at times, and I even cried twice. Books that can bring those emotions out in me, you know they are fantastic! The writing is devourable! That is exactly what I did. Flew through this chunker in record timing, and that is credited to the author.
I so want more. I don't ever want to stop reading about Aristotle and Dante. I hope we get to see them write their names on the map of the city of love! ( )

This sequel to the beloved Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe was sweet, thoughtful, way too long, and not nearly as original or revelatory as the first book. Maybe a story about two high school senior boys who are truly in love with each other just isn't as unusual or in any way shocking. Enjoyable but maybe I'm just too old for the lovey-doveyness that floods the entire novel. OK, I'm too old and I admit it. ( )

I ended up loving this even more than the first. The first was about Aristotle and Dante creating a relationship; this expanded their sphere. It was about Ari learning to love in general — not just Dante. It was funnier, because Ari was able to laugh more. I loved some of the new characters, and I appreciated the honor Sáenz did to teachers. I remember 1989 and there were some moments that felt like the characters were commenting on 2020 in a way that wasn’t authentic to the late 80s. But in general, the late 80s have a lot to say to the 2020s and vice versa, so I appreciate the attempt even when I felt like it stumbled. ( )

i missed these idiots but also, Why Are They Like This

a lot of aspects of it, i liked a lot, and some i didnt. but overall, big appreciate this existing! this book has a lot in commo with the first one but it also has a lot of differences. for one, its a lot more political, which sometimes annoys me in fiction, as i dont enjoy being lectured while im reading, even if i agree -especially if i agree. it tackles racism and homophobia and hate in general, though its a pretty base level, something thats understandable if you keep in mind that ari, the narrator, is like, 17 and just figuring these things out himself, and in that sense, it is believable. i think the book also earned the right to be political and give me lectures because i had already fallen in love with the characters.

that said: i dont know that i would have liked it as much, had it not been because ive already read aristotle and dante discover the secrets of the universe. i feel like the books are super endearing and have a kind of innocence thats really sweet to watch. but this one installment felt, too me, too long and sometimes redundant. a lot of it is part of benjamin's style, which is fine and i respect it. its not necessarily for me, its not my personal favorite kind of writing, but that doesnt make it bad. it does fall into an overusage of the metaphors that in the end comes off as cheesy, but again, i feel like that adds to the innocence of it.

i also felt like there were two major events plot wise that were... cheap resources, i would say? its not that i could see them coming, because i didn't, and that is kind of the issue. they came out of nowhere for the sake of causing drama, but didn't (at least one of them didn't, the other may have just been a lesson) bring anything new to the table. it could have been resolved differently and have the same impact, if not more.

but, like... i just love these babies. and even the unnecessary made me tear up at times, which has value, as i dont cry while reading often. and seeing all of the good moments between them was extremely heartwarming, though i did miss the #pining and the #yearning, especially because i had reread the first book days prior.

in conclusion. i dont know that the lenght benefitted the book (its like, twice as long as the other one, which is, truly, so much), but i understand that these books are somewhat cathartic for the author, so i dont have it in me to complain about that too much. but i loved revisiting these characters, and im not terribly mad at what they have going on. im happy to see the growth, im happy with the conclusion... (and honestly, the ending is still a bit open, is this man going to give us a book three in another six years? who knows). ive been debating between three and four stars, but i love these two too much goddammit ( )

I loved this sequel so much! It has all the feels - it is a very beautiful, wise, and emotional book. I listened to the audiobook which is read by the brilliant Lin-Manuel Miranda, but I need to buy the book so I can reread it and underline passages and write a more coherent review. I feel like this book is Benjamin Alire Saenz' gift to LGBTQ+ teens everywhere - and to those of us who support them. ( )

***why a maybe***
... I still have to read the first one. I can remember it was one of the books I bought after not buying books for a very long time.

... Or was it one of the first books I saw a YouTuber talk about a book that interested me to the point of buying it?

I enjoyed this more than I did the previous entry in the Aristotle and Dante series. I thought it was a stronger story with stronger characters and relationships. It was very beautiful. I like that the author seems to have become a lot more comfortable writing about Ari's queerness just as Ari himself is becoming more comfortable with his feelings. After reading the first book I knew to brace myself for emotional punches, but it still got me. The whole book was handled very well and was very moving. ( )