July 2012 reading

From sfsite.com, some randomly selected author birthdays:

The 1st: Charles Coleman Finlay

The 2nd: Hannes Bok

Craig Shaw Gardner

The 3rd: E. Hoffman Price

The 4th: Patrick Tilley

The 5th: Nancy Springer

Jody Lynn Nye

Cathy Hill

The 6th: Rick Sternbach

The 7th: Robert A. Heinlein

Jeff VanderMeer

That's the first week.

I've just started The Long Earth by Pratchett and Baxter.

Reading The Wanderground for SF Mistressworks; but afterwards I think I'll tackle some more recent sf - 2312, Blue Remembered Earth, Intrusion, Dark Eden...

Took a break from Utopia (insert joke here) to read some short stories out of Ross E. Lockhart's thus-far-excellent The Book of Cthulhu, including tales from SF writers Charles Stross and Elizabeth Bear ("A Colder War" and "Shoggoths in Bloom", respectively). Mythos fiction - it's not just for horror writers anymore.

Just finished:

Sten by Allan Cole and Chris Bunch
The Wolf Worlds by Allan Cole and Chris Bunch

Certainly not high literature. Simple page turning entertainment. I'll probably read the rest when I find them.

also just finished Patriots by David Drake, which was a pretty decent juvy.

Still reading Use of Weapons by Ian M. Banks....

Speaking of Banks, I just started Consider Phlebas. My first foray into the Culture universe.

Loved Consider Phlebas - Player of Games was so-so. Liked Excession quite a bit as well as Algebraist (although that last isn't a Culture novel)....

#9, I suggest you do not follow the elaine55-young route.

Just fininshed the entire Nights Dawn trilogy. My god this series could never be made into a cohesive movie.

Not really sci-fi, but I'm current reading Mister Slaughter by Robert McCammeron and IT by Stephen King (really sweet illustrated edition by Cemetery Dance publications).

Finished Children of the Sky. My review:

No real specific spoilers in this review, but some general discussion on the ending.

A good book that was a flew flaws short of being a very good book. The main plot of the book felt a bit overused: the righteous "good" people are cleverly made out to look like the "bad" people and spend most of the book trying to get vindication. Only it never truly comes. That's one of the unsatisfying things of the book. Sure, it's probably more true to how real life is, but it's far less fulfilling as a piece of fiction. One character pays for his crimes, but the rest mostly escape punishment.

This is also happened quite a bit in A Fire Upon the Deep. However, the surviving bad guys were all remnant/reformed Tines that had the ability to drastically change due to their unique biology. It makes less sense with humans. In that, it's perhaps less realistic. I don't see the ringleader being allowed to get away with murder. Multiple murders, in fact.

Plus, the overall plot advanced very little since Fire. Where Fire ended with major unresolved plot lines, Children outdid it. We can only hope Vinge will manage to finish the tale one day while he still has the knack.

I give it 3.5 stars. It lost a half star due to the ending (and I even had my hopes down because I knew it had a bit of an unresolved ending before reading it) and because of the unsatisfying outcome of the main plot.

4 thanks for the ref... The Book of Cthulhu has been added to my kindle/to read list

Finished After the fall, before the fall, during the fall, an apocalypse story that manages some new twists. The cover declares it a novel but the wordage feels low. Now on The Sunless Countries.

I have American Gods by Neil Gaiman in my Must Read Pile. I was browsing in Waterstones when the blurb caught my eye.

15.

Fantastic story, loved every bit of it.

And I gave up on American Gods. Thought it was boring as hell. Just goes to show...

And I read it and thought it was okay, but not more than that.

I'm currently reading Liz Williams' Darkland which is good, if not great and in the process of starting on Alastair Reynolds latest novel.

My greatest problem is that I'm buying books faster than I can read them.

Oh yes. I think I know that problem. My TBR is running at around 800 books. I'm trying to restrict myself to buying 1 book for every 5 I read but oh the agony, Amazon could go out of business, Barnes and Noble used book store could finally succumb to bankruptcy, The Stand could be swallowed by an earthquake. Has anyone started a Book Buyers Anonymous yet? Where's the nearest BBA meeting?

I didn't like American Gods until the second half. The plot twist made up for any moments of boredom.

Started reading Zoe's Tale by John Scalzi a few days ago. Hopefully enough time has passed that I've forgotten enough details of The Last Colony for it to be fresh.

#22, That is the problem I had with those books bright. I read them sequentially one after another and it was very boring after the first book. The juxtaposition of the same events from different perspectives is a neat trick - if you can pull it off. To me, unless you stagger reading the books a year apart it doesn't work.

Yeah, I appreciated you and other readers commenting on that so I knew to wait a while. I would never have known since I trust Scalzi and his OMW series enough not to even read the plot summary.

Looks like I finished TLC in Sept 2010. I can remember the general outline, but my memory for details is usually pretty bad. Here's hoping!

Just started alt.human aka Harmony by Keith Brooke.

In the midst of To The Dark Star, a Robert Silverberg collection, and Fatherland by Robert Harris. The Silverberg is very good. Fatherland so-so but getting a little better as I get through it.

I thought American Gods was only average. I haven't read too much by Gaiman. Only that and Stardust which I wasn't blown away by either. I got the feeling in Stardust that I was missing references that I was meant to pick up on. My background in mythology is weak so maybe that was the problem. I often hear Gaiman spoken highly of, but so far have found him only so-so. Any recommendations for any of his other stuff?

Didn't like American Gods as a novel...no difference in the main character from beginning to end, for one thing...but what an amazing and cool and engrossing idea!

I'm reading away in Redshirts. So far, so good.

I'm in and out of Incarceron in Sapphique. So far it's better than the book it follows, Incarceron, though oddly it wasn't reviewed as well, judging by the cover.

I'm 2/3 way through War in Heaven and I'm really enjoying it. I just wish there was more hours in the day so I can finish it!

I've just started The God Engines as an audiobook and I'm not loving the narrator at all. The story is good but I just not too keen on the voice which makes it a bit hard to listen to. Oh well, at least the story only goes for about 3hrs so I don't have to listen for too much longer.

> 27

I feel like Gaiman has a good sense of fantasy, but I'm not thrilled by his adult novels. Good Omens, which in the abstract should have been a winner for me, I found quite ho-hum. His children's books with Dave McKean are very good, and I've enjoyed his work best in comics and movies, media that permit visual artists to capitalize on his ideas.

(Gaiman appeared on my television last night in a Simpsons rerun, where Homer referred to him as "English Fonzie.")

"English Fonzie" LOL!!!!!!!!

I think Good Omens has its good points, but it does fall into that let's-imitate-the-Hitchiker's-Guide genre that's been mined all too thoroughly. (I'm looking at you, Pratchett.) Still, I think it's the best example of that breed, surpassing Adams himself in some ways.

Finished Utopia. I think that those who have been following left-wing protest movements of the last 10-15 years will find it fascinating how much it parallels contemporary socio-economic concerns. What does it say in Ecclesiastes? "There is nothing new under the sun"?

Currently splitting my reading time between two short story collections: Cthulhu's Heirs and Again, Dangerous Visions.

>27 tjm568:

I liked American Gods but felt like Stardust was just skimming through a much larger story. Maybe try some of his short stories if you aren't blown away by the novels?

27> I didn't care for Stardust either, but I loved Good Omens and The Graveyard Book.

Just finished Quasar by Jamil Nasir. "Just finished" is correct in both ways: I barely finished it. Chaotic & unbelievable plotting, helped along repeatedly by deus ex machina devices (like super cloaking belts which make the wearer invisible to people and the most sophisticated surveillance systems, plus can project a perfect disguise at all observers, plus can leave a hologram of the wearer in their original location to fool observers). Cardboardy characters. Impossible happy ending tacked on at the very end of disaster, ensured by a totally different deus ex machina (superpowerful aliens).

I tend to like dark cyberpunky stuff, so this was disappointing. It was his first novel, maybe they got better.

Lets see...so much to cover...um

The Children of the Sky was fair but I bailed out to read an ILL 2 wk limit on Incandescence which was better. Now reading The Well of Stars which is pretty darn nifty.

On audio: Eon still rocks, Revelation Space was still cool, Into the Black was...umm...I just don't see why folks like it so maybe I bailed early, now into Iron Sunrise.

Just found out Iain M Banks new work The Hydrogen Sonata is coming out in the fall. Who do you have to sleep with around here to get an advance copy...huh? I just can't stand having to wait that long, but its still better than the 2013 release date I heard about earlier. I hope he keeps picking talented readers because his audiobooks are the best IMOHO.

Reading Stardoc by S.L. Viehl....

Reading an old classic for a reading group discussion, The Stars My Destination by Bester. So far, I'm finding it less than engaging.

Nice username, puppet258! Do you happen to know catherine513-sun and muoudexindong ? Interestingly enough you all have the same books by Liu Cixin (and no other books), and you happen to love them just as enormously much, all three of you.

July is re-read month and I started with an old children's fantasy story called The Fair to Middling - and why does the touchstone only work if I leave the "The" outside the bracket? Next up was Momento Mori which is darkly humorous with a touch of the uncanny, but with book 3 I am back on science fiction and therefore allowed to post here.

I decided to re-read Desolation Road since it has had several mentions here in the last couple of months, and I am finding that I had forgotten a lot since I read it 11 years ago. I remembered the founding of the town, various visitors such as Adam Black's show, and the magical realist feel to it all, but I had completely forgotten the bad things that happen to the town later on. I also seem to have combined Dr Alimantando and the greenperson into one person in my memory. I have 60 pages left to read and I have a very vague recollection about how it will end.

Reads post 41 and grabs popcorn. :munch: munch:

Puppet258: how does it work? step1: post on LT step2: ???? step3: profit!

Thinking about opening Use of Weapons this month, it's been staring at me from the top of my TBR pile...

> 36 Agree with you re Quasar. Distance Haze though is excellent. Tower of dreams could get to front of my TBR queue in the near future.

I finished War in Heaven and really loved it. One bit I really liked was when the baddies attacked Earth they just launched warheads from space, there was no silly ground assault and Earth used rocks and other space junk as projectiles to defend itself.

Finished listening to The God Engines which I liked but the narrator was so annoying that I don't think I'd ever bother to listen to it again. The narrators accent had me a bit confused sometimes as to me his pronunciation of "god" sounded to me that he was saying "guard".

I've starting reading Dread Empires Fall: The Praxis and the first chapter is interesting.

Reading Among Others. It is hard not to like this book, although the way that she works so many SF titles and authors in seems contrived and disrupts the narrative flow. It is hard to dislike a novel that makes such knowing and loving references to LOTR. Or one that asks the question, "Why does the Litany Against Fear work?" That kind of stuff tickles the hell out of me.

vwinsloe, did you see the list I compiled?

http://www.librarything.com/list/349/all/Bibliography-for-Among-Others

I saw Jo Walton's list, but not yours--which is better. ;>) Thanks.

Well, it's the same list, but links to works and checkmarks for what you own are nice extras, yes.

Yes, with the stars and links to reviews which is useful. She does mention other authors, too, without naming any specific work of theirs. Cordwainer Smith comes to mind, a particular favorite of mine.

I'm a total fan of Gaiman's Stardust. He really seemed to tap into some sort of Fairy Tale Well in that book.

Just finished Consider Phlebas. Good book, interesting universe and characters. The ending was...unexpected. That's about all I can say.

I'm rereading The Handmaid's Tale.

>53 Unreachableshelf:

That's a great novel. I gave my brother a copy and told him that if he didn't like it, he never had to listen to another recommendation from me again. Fortunately, he loved it. :)

Finished Zoe's Tale. My review:

Zoe's Tale is a bit redundant if you've already read The Last Colony recently, so wait a year or two before picking it up. It retells the same events in that book from Zoe's point of view, but also fills in gaps and plot holes as well. This is quite a challenge and for the most part I think it works. Unfortunately, most of this is at the end of the book. The first half or more of the books is somewhat unexciting. Especially since you ultimately know how the situation is going to conclude. It's good, but not great.

Finished Discount Armageddon and The Forest of Time this weekend. Both excellent!

I've finally posted my very pleased review of Redshirts, a more thought-provoking book than I would ever have imagined it to be, in my thread...post #46.

Now reading Beyond Varallan by S.L. Viehl...

Finished Leviathan wakes. I agree with most of iansales's criticisms of the book, and would add that I found Holden to be an unbearable prig. Still, I did keep reading in spite of mentally listing my complaints as I went along, so I suppose the authors must have done something right. I'll not be reading the sequel.

Finished Ready Player One (B); not bad for a first novel, but your enthusiasm is going to be conditioned by how much one is either a fan of video games or have fond memories of the 1980s. Probably best described as SF for non-SF readers.

#59 \o/ At last, I'm not alone :-)

Recently finished In War Times by Kathleen Ann Goonan which I enjoyed but struggled through some slow parts. I am taking a departure from speculative fiction to read Journey to the End of Night by Louis-Ferdinand Céline.

Started Man Plus by Frederik Pohl. Haven't read it in a couple of decades but the story always stuck with me. Well, the bare bones of the story. Also plan to read (the less well-reviewed) Mars Plus after.

If you haven't read it, the story is basically one where they took a human and turned him into a cyborg fit for conditions on Mars.

#63 Recently read that one. I didn't think it aged very well.

I've been enjoying public domain short stories by Philip K. Dick. My favorite so far is one I remember from long ago, Beyond Lies the Wub.

I'm enjoying 2312, the new one from Kim Stanley Robinson.

Organized myself a SF weekend: 2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson and Year's Best SF 17 - Hartwell and Cramer selection - reviews in the works if someone is interested.

Still have the rest of the Year Bests to read and picked up a few new SF novels (and a few old ones that I had not read yet).

#66, #67 Am also enjoying 2312. Thought it odd that Zasha's gender wasn't mentioned when Swan went to see Z on Earth. Especially since gender is mentioned quite a lot in the trek along the utilidor on Mercury.

It was kind of making a point though - gender really did not matter at all at this point... And it took him awhile to identify Jean's gender as well.

Seemed odd, given that Swan and Wahram were initially identified as male and female and later is gynandro and androgyne.

Jean does not get identified until midway through the book (unless if I missed it somewhere) - and then only a few times. And he is a lot more central character than Zasha. The way Swan and Wahram were identified felt almost as if Robinson was trying to make the biggest possible mess of genders so that he does not need to deal with them... So yeah - it was odd with Zasha but all things considered... not so surprising.

On the non-fiction front, I just read and enjoyed Mutants and Mystics: Science Fiction, Superhero Comics, and the Paranormal. I've also posted my review.

I've just started reading The Book of Skaith.

I finished reading Niel Gaiman's Neverwhere. I am well aware of the great following Gaiman has and I am reading his books to see what all the hype is about. I read Good Omens years ago and thought it was very funny. I read The Graveyard Book when it came out and thought it no more than an OK children's book. I feel the same about Neverwhere with the proviso that it appears Gaiman added some violence and sexual references to make it appear to be an adult, or at least young adult, novel.

My next Gaiman read will be American Gods but if it doesn't impress me I will not be reading any more Gaiman.

Now reading Endurance by S.L. Viehl...

Hyperion, Dan Simmons. Reading the Sub Press edition.

#76 Goran
I hope you enjoy it. I really enjoyed Hyperion and went on to read The Fall of Hyperion. The two books worked very well, even to the extent that I felt they were simply one very long book.

I read the Endymion books and did not feel they were necessary at all. (Others do disagree with me on this point.)

I didn't feel the Endymion books were "necessary", but I did enjoy them. Not as much as Hyperion, but still in the 4 star range.

>74 pgmcc: Too bad, Peter. You're picking books of Gaiman's that entranced me and are among my favorites. For whatever reason, he may not be an author for you. Kudos to you for giving him this extended a try.

#79 Hi, Joe.

I agree, his work may not be for me. I don't like to give up on an author on the basis of only one or two books, especially one as popular as Gaiman.

I am not saying Gaiman is not a good writer, but I am not enthralled by his work in the way I am by that of others. When reading Neverwhere I was not constantly wanting to pick the book up to read. It didn't have that special sparkle that appeals to me. Neither did The Graveyard Book.

Perhaps American Gods will be different.

:-)

#77

I'm only about 50 pages in; the priest is telling his story. Nothing spectacular is happening yet though lots of questions are already coming up. I've enjoyed everything Simmon's has written in the last number of years. This is my first foray into his older work.

Hyperion is really one you need to have faith in and stick with. Luckily Simmons writes such a nice sentence, even when things are a little slow it is not so painful. Like The Canterbury Tales, some stories are better than others. Stick around; it will pay off.

74> Neverwhere was originally a BBC miniseries, which I found quite wonderful. I never felt the need to read the novel.

#83 I never got to see the TV series. :-(

The Song of Kali was my intro to Simmons - I then met him in Atlanta at a book signing (along with Tim Powers and Robert Mccammon - the good old days). Simmons was promoting Carrion Comfort which is still one of my favorite horror books from that era - he drew a cool sketch of a Bela Lugosi-style Dracula above his signature. I'm still a fan and most recently read Drood...

#85

I read Dicken's The Mystery of Edwin Drood in preparation for reading Drood. I enjoyed Dicken's novel and found the speculation about how Dickens would have finished the book quite fascinating.

I had reservations about Simmons writing a novel with Dickens and Wilkie Collins in it. Having read the book I was delighted with his work, but was slightly uncomfortable with how he used some of the characters from the original novel, Drood included. Despite my reservations I really enjoyed reading Drood and immediately went out and bought a biography of Dickens and a book on Underground London. I was also convinced to find out more about Collins's life.

At this stage I will read anything Simmons writes and your comments on Carrion Comfort have pushed that book further up the TBR pile.

#82

Yeah, I found this out while reading the priests story. Got a little slow but really picked up at the end. On to the soldiers story!

#85

Song of Kali was also my introduction to Simmons. That story REALLY disturbed me and I'm sure you know which part I'm talking about. But from there I really became a fan of his. The Terror is still my favourite of his stories, but Ilium, Olympos, and Drood are right up there. Black Hills was good though not particularly my genre of setting. Not too sure if I want to pick up Flashback though..............

According to reviews I've read, Simmon's last book is some sort of neocon Islamophobic near-future thriller. He hasn't quite done a Frank Miller, but he's come close. It certainly put me off his books.

>85 johnnyapollo:, 86

Drood is one of my stand-by books when I need to fill a place on the staff picks display at the library. Although I don't think Ilium and Olympos held up as well on a second reading, I still enjoyed them a lot.

>88 iansales:

That's what I've read as well. It hasn't put me off the ones I already read and liked, but it does make me less interested in seeking out more. It really doesn't sound like I need to bother with the latest.

#89 by @EstelleChauvelin> That's what I've read as well. It hasn't put me off the ones I already read and liked, but it does make me less interested in seeking out more. It really doesn't sound like I need to bother with the latest.

This pretty much describes my feelings toward Card. If I couldn't tell he was the bigot that he is from the stuff I read and liked, I can re-read those without it bothering me. But I'm not going to bother reading new stuff because I don't trust his voice anymore (and from some of the reviews, it seems like that's wise).

I REALLY debated on whether to buy my wife Ender's Game for the kindle as part of a bundle of birthday books. She already loved the book and she's big on re-reading, and she has a short list of books she really likes, and she'll read the kindle while being stuck in bed nursing the baby to sleep at night and lots of good reasons but... I have to give Card NEW money. I REALLY wish I could buy a "used" kindle ebook...

> 90

Heh, heh. I totally make a point of buying certain books used so as not to contribute to the author's royalty stream.

Carrion Comfort was my introduction to Dan Simmons. I've got both Black Hills and Flashback sitting on the shelf waiting to read but I just don't feel the urge to pick them up. I slogged through Drood and it took what seemed like forever to read so I just look at those two sitting there and just don't want to pick them up. It's a shame because I loved his earlier horror and sci-fi, sorry, speculative fiction books. I think that about half of his books that I have I got second hand which makes up for the more recent ones which I bought brand new in hardback.

88- According to reviews I've read, Simmon's last book is some sort of neocon Islamophobic near-future thriller. He hasn't quite done a Frank Miller, but he's come close. It certainly put me off his books.

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with a couple of your references. What does "neocon" mean? Neo=new and con=against or short for convention as in comicon or convict as in ex-con. I have never heard this term before. Also, what did Frank Miller do. I am unfamiliar with him. I looked him up and saw that he is a comic book guy, but really don't know anything else about him. Please enlighten.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Terror-Frank-Miller/product-reviews/193727800X/ref=dp...

Wow, thanks brightcopy. I appreciate the definition and the Frank Miller clarification. I would have to say I think that the comparison of Simmons to this description of Miller is a bit inaccurate. The reviews in those articles basically say that Miller took a crap on the paper and passed it off as art. While Flashback may not have been Simmons' best, I wouldn't denegrate the book or the author like Miller was in those reviews.

As far as the neocon thing (I honestly thought this was some sci-fi term that I had missed. I have read sci-fi all my life (Not entirely true. My Dad read me A Wrinkle in Time when I was six. That really set me off, but before that I have to admit I read a lot of mainstream kids books; Goodnight Moon, Harry the Dirty Dog, Where the Wild Things Are (which might actually be considered speculative fiction);( Sendak is out there) and until I came on this site, I never realized how ignorant I was about science fiction (which I found out I was supposed to call "speculative fiction")). It kind of sucks that politics has to play a role in book reviews, but I realize authors have opinions and stances on issues, as do reviewers. Does Simmons, proposing a crappy future America dominated by Sharia ideology promote "Islamophbia"? I don't think so. Why is this example of speculative fiction a -phobia? Christ, we have seen speculative fiction examining all kinds of alternative futures. Why is it a problem for Simmons to speculate on a future where Sharia is the law of the land in the U.S. and it sucks? I think living under Sharia Law would suck. No more beer. Women covered in blankets so all you can see is their ankles. Ankles don't turn me on. So the story of a shitty future where some guy is pissed off because his way of life has been taken away and he has to try to deal with a new reality that he hates doesn't strike me as racist or "Frank Millerish".

iansales- This is not Simmons best book. But I think that his body of work deserves a reading before you declare him off limits because of a review. Reviewers are a lot like politicians.

#89, #90 That sounds like a sensible policy. I still think Hyperion very good, though I did think Ilium and Olympus were over-rated. I have The Terror but have yet to get around to reading it. Card's fiction I never liked, even before I discovered he was a homophobic bigot. I've never read the novel version of Ender's Game, though I have read the original novella. I'm quite happy with that state of affairs. Another author I avoid is John C Wright. I'd read his The Golden Age and The Phoenix Exultant and thought they were boring and derivative... and then discovered he's some sort of racist, sexist, homophobic religious apologist.

#95 So it's okay to be a little bit Islamophobic but not a lot Islamophobic? Prejudice doesn't work that way. According to the reviews I've read, and discussions I've had with people who have read Flashback, the novel is more than just a "thought experiment" about a US under Shari'a law, but a thinly-veiled attack on Islam. Also, Shari'a does not mean "no more beer" - only Muslims are prohibited alcohol. And different countries have interpreted the Qur'an sura on modesty differently, from just the hijab to full burqa or a'baya - it's cultural, not just religious. Also, the quality of Miller's art in his racist screed is irrelevant - and if you're rejecting it solely because of that, you need to rethink your attitudes.

ETA: apologies for sounding a bit harsh, but, well, you know...

>90 brightcopy:

Yeah, that's pretty close to my feelings on OSC, except some things from the Shadow series that didn't strike me when I first read them suddenly seemed more ominous. I took my copies of those to the used book store because I don't think I can read them again and there's no point letting them take up space. I still remember such great things in the original Ender quartet, though. I hope those aren't ruined for me the next time through.

I reread Vernor Vinge's space opera from the early 1990s: A FIRE UPON THE DEEP. It holds up.

Back in those days,social media were news groups. Among the book's pleasures are how well Vinge does the voices of news group members with various levels of sophistication/cluenessness.

I was recommending Cordwainer Smith to my son, and realized my copies somehow got lost along the way. So I ordered used copies of Nostrilia and The Best of Cordwainer Smith today.

I've been at a roleplaying con all weekend but I did bring a book for reading on the train and in downtime between games and drinking. I've just finished it, the book was Dark Eden by Chris Beckett.

I found it a quick and enjoyable read. The world-building, and SFnal plot, may not be the most novel thing I've read, but it is more than adequately compensated for by Beckett's exploration of his main theme, and the quality of the writing.

I'm going to begin Agent of Change by Sharon Lee today. Finally. I've been trying to get to it for six months at least!!

I'm about to finish Vortex by Robert Charles Wilson. Great conclusion to the trilogy.

Just started Use of Weapons, after a quick break from SF to read Gone Girl (which was a pretty good book, BTW.)

Also reading Use of Weapons

Now reading A World Out of Time by Larry Niven...

Re-read month continued with Labyrinths and now I am onto Steel Beach which is a re-read from around twenty-five years ago as well as being the second-last of the Eight Worlds books that I have been reading over the last few months. It is so long since I first read it that I had even forgotten about the brontosaurus farms on Luna!

Read 2312 but haven't decided yet if I'm disappointed with it.

#88, 89

I understood the same. I have no problem with opposing views in my reading, but having it shoved down the throat as absolute truth really turns me off. By the way, I just got to a part in Hyperion that mentions the Flashback drug.

Good to know, #102. Vortex is on my TBR list.

#106, fond memories of Steel Beach. I seem to recall something about that book that called to mind the old (erroneous) saw: "Ontology recapitulates philogeny." Satirically speaking, of course. I should put it on my re-read list.

Just finished The sunless countries in the excellent Virga series. As ever it is a mix of high and low tech in a truly unique environment. Next up is Adam Rogert's By light alone which hopefully will avoid the gaffs made in his previous one.

-96- Miller's artwork has degenerated to the point that it seems to be an afterthought - while I appreciate that it's highly stylized, it shouldn't be so stylized as to fail to tell the story. It looks like there are panels that Miller spilled ink on, and rather than re-draw them, he just brushed it over most of the panel underneath. This is laziness, not an effective way to tell a story.

iansales- I had never heard of this guy! This is the link I was sent when I asked for clarification. I have never seen this guys artwork. I don't do graphic novels. Stop being a tool. Stop being a bully. It doesn't become you. Bite me. XOXO

Who's being a bully?

I too wondered how to react to Card's stance on homosexuality after reading and loving Enders's Game and other Ender's books. I'm glad I didn't shun him altogether. Though I disagree w/ him on some important issues, I have gained a lot from reading his works. He is still my favorite author (hence my coming to his defense here). I read many of his essays, though very little of it has to do w/ scifi, they provide other meaningful perspectives on life, culture, art, etc. I have read more of his novels and short stories (I dare anyone to read "Euminedes on the Fourth Floor Lavatory" and not come away impressed with the disturbing brilliance of it) and have enjoyed some while disliking others.

Interesting facts: Though he has been repeatedly called a religious zealot or a religious nutjob on this forum, he is equally revered and despised by readers of his same faith.

Card doesn't invest in the stockmarket. He invests in writers via his short story e-zine and teaching writing courses. Your money could be spent on worse people.

I do not mean to advocate for the man per se, but rather offer up the opinion that name-calling is narrow minded and people are more complex than those names suggest. If you don't like someone's beliefs, don't throw the baby out w/ the bath water. Knowledge is to be learned in strange places.

OTOH, do not support or reward prejudice. If someone holds offensive attitudes and refuses to change them, do not pretend they don't exist. Though I've never been a fan of the fiction of Orson Scott Card or John C Wright, I find their prejudices and attitudes repugnant and in no way will I contribute to their wealth and I will encourage others not to do the same.

I finished Man Plus. Still quite enjoyed it. I think mainly just because of the central idea of the man being turned into the grotesque but beautiful monster adapted for a life on Mars. I could see this making a really good (or bad) movie.

There's a sequel, isn't there? Don't think I've read it, though I remember enjoying Man Plus.

Yeah, Mars Plus. Part of the reason I re-read it was because I thought I already had the sequel and was going to read it. Now I found out I don't! I think I'm remembering seeing it at the used bookstore, though...

ETA: Though the one big problem with the movie might be that there's no amazing conflict or suspense in the third act - just a minor one. You might even say there is no third act. It's more contemplative and less thriller.

#114 Implying I pretend it doesn't exist is a premature judgment, but I'm flattered you think you know me so well. Believe it or not, it is possible to have a more complicated relationship w/ someone than to shun them when they say something offensive, or put your head in the sand and pretend they didn't say it.

I don't just shun Card because he says something offensive. I shun him because he's been an activist working towards passing laws to take away others rights. In the 90s, he called for anti-sodomy laws to remain on the books. Now he's been a board member of an organization that has worked to get anti-gay marriage (including prop 8 in CA) and anti-gay adoption laws passed.

Someone saying something bigoted is one thing. It's sad, but it's a whole different level than someone actively using their status and wealth (which they get from you buying their books) to actively work towards making their bigoted views the law of the land.

#119 What he said.

>117 brightcopy:
'I think I'm remembering seeing it at the used bookstore, though...'

Be brave and venture into Uncle Hugos and witness, once again, vanishing carpet.

Brightcopy, I applaud you for your integrity (and I don't mean that sarcastically either.) But it's not so black and white. I think the man is trying to do good things for families. He has repeatedly cited statistics showing that children having a mother and father are less prone to societal pitfalls (I'm loosely paraphrasing here). but I disagree with his decision to use those statistics against gay marriage and adoption, and I make that known (along w/ many other of his fans) on his own forums.

#121 by LamSon>They have carpet?

#122 Yes, it is black and white. Gay people deserve exactly the same rights as everyone else. Any suggestion otherwise is prejudice. Religion is no justification for it, especially given religious types propensity to pick and choose exactly what they believe from their creeds.

#122 by Valleyguy> I understand what you're trying to say, I just think it's outside the boundaries of human rights. I don't care how many studies you show me that say physically handicapped people have children that are "more prone to societal pitfalls" - I'm not going to agree when you forbid them to marry or adopt! And if you start a lobbying organization that tries to get laws passed to impose your views on those people, it suddenly becomes VERY black and white.

Same thing goes for mixed race marriages or adoptions (hell YES their children have to face some very difficult challenges). This list could get quite big.

We're not talking about having a grandmother that still uses the N word anytime she refers to a black person. I have one of those and I love her. But she's not forming an organization to turn her views into national policy.

There is a difference between an author and their art... I really don't care what an author does believe in or does in his/her life - if I like the books they produce, I am reading them. If they start pushing too much of their weird views into their art, I won't like the books most likely so...

I can see the other end of the argument though and I can see how someone's public life can go in the way of liking their work (and some days I almost wish I never learned English or started actually looking up the authors - because for awhile, an author for me was just a name on a book cover and not a real person. Even now a lot of what an English reading person can learn about the authors is not as easily available for someone that relies on a different language - especially a minor one).

Sartre once stated that an anti-Semite could never produce art. Guess he didn't think much of Celine.

#128 by brightcopy> I think the main difference here is the political activity of Card. When I think of buying his books or paying for a movie based on them (Ender's Game is coming eventually), I can't help but feel that I'm actually making a political contribution. And one that goes towards passing laws that are diametrically opposed to my beliefs about basic human rights.

It's like if I found out that J.K. Rowling was using her money from HP book sales to set up a chain of holocaust denial museums. It doesn't mean I think HP suddenly went from being a good book to a bad one. I just can't reconcile funding such a thing and maintaining my own morals.

...

Now I'm REALLY regretting buying the EG ebook for my wife. What a momentary lapse of judgment...

#127 Or Pound.

#122 All those "societal pitfalls" the children of gay couples are prone to. So let's stop them marrying and having kids. Hey, why not ban poor people from procreating as well? Their children are also prone to "societal pitfalls". And black people too - well most of them can't give their children a good upbringing, so let's stop them from having kids too.

Eugenicists were just trying to do good things for families.

Selective breeding can only make things better.

I know it sounds like we're taking the piss, but it's actually true. These people (okay, I'm sure some percentage were just racists and hiding behind it, but some percentage of every group is generally made up of assholes) honestly thought what they were doing was better for everyone. They were only looking out for society as a whole. They felt the means (depriving people of their civil rights) was justified by the end (a happier, healthier society).

#131 & 2 There is the old Bernard Shaw joke about the actress who wrote to him suggesting they had a child together "with your brains and my beauty...",
"But my dear" he replied, "what if it had your brains and my beauty?"

There were a number of sf novels of the time which more or less advocated the same thing. It still doesn't mean it's not reprehensible.

And of course Shaw was an eugenicist. And a committed socialist. A common fault among Utopians is believing that there is one perfect solution to social problems and if we only had an enlightened bureaucracy/philosopher-king/politburo/fuhrer we could implement them. Shows a laughable naivete where humanity is concerned.

That's why I look forward to when we're ruled by robot overlords. They're machines, so they'll be completely fair and incorruptible. Finally, a utopia where nothing could possibly go wrong!

But first we have to invent the machines we program who will then program the incorruptible machines.

WHERE NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG

"Open pod bay doors, HAL"

I like the turn this panel discussion has taken, but where did the moderator go?

Ian are you going to Worldcon?

Another good take on if-robots-ran-the-world-nothing-could-go-wrong is The Humanoids by Jack Williamson.

#141 In 2014, yes, I will be. When it's in London. But not this year, no.

Apropos the discussion on utopia, dictatorship, other forms of societal governance, and prejudice, I have recently read Critical Mass by Philip Ball which, amonst other topics, discusses simulation models developed to evaluate the worth of different forms of government and the values of various utopias. The findings and conclusions are fascinating and validate the views of most intelligent cynics alive today, or ever.

In terms of the "Card" discussion, I would side with iansales and brightcopy regarding not buying Card's books, at least not new.

There are many deceased authors who produced wonderful works but whose political views were racist or worse (e.g. H.G.Wells/H.P.Lovecraft) and yet their work cannot be ignored. Buying the works of these writers now no longer supports their political views.

Sounds like a plan to me. Only buy the books of authors whose views you dislike when they're dead. And if you're a really big fan, then feel free to hasten the process...

My legal advisors tell me I should distance myself from iansales' comments in post 145 and that I should issue a statement to the effect that I do not now, nor have I in the past, nor do I intend to in the future, promote, advocate or encourage, anyone to have any hand, act or part in any illegal action that will hasten the process referred to in post 145.

It always comes down to a definition of what is illegal and what is not.

I met Jack Williamson a few years before his death in 2006 - he was very humble, endearing and was happy to sign a couple of books that I had brought for him. We spoke a bit about the Humanoids - I gathered that he liked the book and sequel (one of the books he signed for me). We also spoke a bit about his friend and collaborator, Frederick Pohl.

My review of Intrusion is now up on SFF Chronicles; you can find it here.

Of course, you can't always be sure death will stop them. If you want to buy a new copy of an L. Ron Hubbard book today, you're basically donating to the Church of Scientology. Luckily, this problem is mostly theoretical.

> 149 Luckily, this problem is mostly theoretical.

Yeah, who wants to buy an L. Ron Hubbard book today?

I’m reading and finishing this weekend, the book two of The Expanse Series Caliban’s War by James S. A. Corey. It’s great!!

Wow, busy day I just had. I'm not even going to attempt individual responses :)

For the record, I don't believe active prejudice against gays isn't a black or white issue. What I was referring to is financially supporting a man who's perogative is to do such. I should add that /for me personally/ it is not black and white because there is more to him than "anti-gay activist". He supports new artists and writes great essays. He also has strong opinions and for better or worse is active in them. I personally believe Card to be a decent human being who does a lot of good, and who also does some ugly things I don't agree with. So I guess I'm willing to take the good with the bad and fight my own fight. I also have been to two Tom Cruise movies recently and realize I have donated a few bucks to scientology by doing so, but he did a great job in both of them, so I am able to sleep at night.

As far as statistics go, I agree that they shouldn't be used to make laws restricting people from procreating or getting married or determining who should or shouldn't adopt. Who wouldn't want a foster child or orphan to end up end the hands of a loving couple, gay or otherwise? But statistics shouldn't be ignored either, because we are after all trying to craft a better society, and it begins at the family level. As long as we are not using means that impede individual rights, they should be used as a guide. Sure we can fight a big drug war and dish out dollars (and pounds) or stuff money into broken school systems and fund many other expensive and misguided programs meant to reactively heal wounds that fostering better families could have fixed. But wouldn't that be a little...stupid?

145>Hmm, though Card had a stroke recently, I would be very sad indeed if he died before finishing his many unfinished series.

#152 by Valleyguy> Nobody disagrees with you on fostering better families. That's a strawman to be arguing about. The key part is the "as long as we are not using means that impede individual rights". That's been the crux of everyone who has been criticizing Card, because he's been all for impeding individual rights in order to achieve his goals.

And as much as I don't wish death or incapacitation on anyone (well, ALMOST anyone - I can't claim that I wouldn't have wished it on Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.), I won't be sad to hear of his passing if it means one less backer of anti-gay marriage lobbying. That's a lot more important to me than his finishing a book.

I've been restraining myself but can't resist jumping in with one observation. Valleyguy now has mentioned twice statistics which Card cited showing somehow that children of opposite-sex couples fare better in some way. Has he checked the source of the statistics and what exactly they say? How are they supposed to fare better? Who gathered the stat.s and who funded them?
I've heard statistics quoted that say the exact opposite; that there isn't a statistically valid difference. I have to say that I haven't checked them out either, but my point is that statistics need to be used carefully unless one knows the source and the exact results of the data gathering. Generally people quote stat.s that support a viewpoint they already have (I do it too); and many statistics are created to prove a point -- either the original data gatherers are biased, or someone manipulates them.
I wouldn't go so far as to support the "lies - damned lies - and statistics" view -- I think they can be useful, but need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Sorry to do this. We're getting far from a book discussion. But I can't help myself.

I haven't checked them, because I don't recognize that as a valid line of argument on whether or not people should have fundamental human rights. To accept the argument on those terms is to agree (even if just for the sake of argument) that those rights are predicated on those statistics.

153>I would be sad for more reasons than just books. I think his contributions to society far outweigh his contributions to the ant-gay movement (not necessarily in a way that one good deed erases a bad one, but rather meaning that there is much he is also doing to influence people in ways that don't suck and are actually good and that that portion is a bigger piece of the pie. But people, and not for any bad reasons, focus mostly on the anti-gay stuff--media attn helps in this too.)

154>You are absolutely right about statistics, and I don't know and haven't checked the source of the stats he was quoting. I mentioned it because I was trying (which is stupid since I am not Card and don't know his actual motivations) to defend his motivations for his anti-gay activism. For all I know he is a homophobe and is using statistics to justify his actions. However, I don't think he is a homophobe. At least not totally. I know one instance where he has given glowing reviews on a book, written by a gay man, about gay men, citing that it reminded him of some of his good friends who were gay. Now one could argue that this is Card trying to do some PR, but why would he do that on his site that has far fewer readers than when he responds to larger scale media attacks centered on him? It seems that would be the chance to get in some good PR.

BTW I apologize to anyone who wanted just to talk about books.

Finished Cloud Cry, now starting The Long Tomorrow. What a contrast. In one opening sentence, Brackett does more with characterization than Van Scyoc managed to do in 180 pages.

Just finished Alien Dust by E. C. Tubb. Not one for the Feminists. A pretty harsh unforgiving collection of shorts about a fledgling Martian Colony.

> 157

Yeah, it's a pleasure to read Brackett. I just finished The Ginger Star and I'm about to continue with The Hounds of Skaith.

I like Brackett's fiction, but I thought the Ginger Star was weak and by the numbers - see here.

I agree that Brackett's earlier planetary romance novellas were tighter and more innovative than The Ginger Star, but I still found a lot to like there. I'll review it along with its sequels, since I'm reading them in an omnibus.

What difference does it make whether you're reading in an omnibus, or a train, or at home?

(Sorry. I'll get my coat.)

When reading on a generation ship, you might as well take in the author's whole ouevre.

Intrusion is very very good. Review when I get around to writing it.

Either this year's SF is better than last years' or I just get to read the good ones in a row.

Not sure what's next although Existence, Blue Remembered Earth, The Long Earth and a few more are waiting on my desk.

>164 AnnieMod:: I agree about Intrusion. I'll look forward to reading your review.

#164; 165 & IanSales

Your comments on Intrusion have moved it to the top, yes, the very pinnacle, of my TBR mountain.

To finish my month of re-reads, I am reading American Gods.

#166 I hope you're as impressed with it as I was.

I enjoy Ken's work, especially his near-future novels.

On the basis of your enjoying Intrusion there is a novel called Longevity City by David Murphy that may be of interest to you. The premise involves a law underwhich every woman who gets pregnant has to be treated with a drug that ensures an identical twin is created. At the time of birth one of the twins is taken by the state and put in stasis to be matured to its teens later. When the other twin reaches a stage in life when their own body is getting too old their consciousness is transferred to the mind in the younger body of their twin and they can live another lifetime.

The book develops the political implications of this. I found it very interesting.

I'm reading Hunting Party by Elizabeth Moon...

Started Chindi by Jack McDevitt.

I have been reading about the election in the New York Times (Oops, this is not the Fantasy Group). Picked up Earth Unaware by Orson Scott Card and Aaron Johnston. This is apparently the first of theFormic War Series which is a prequel to the Enders Series. There are several good things to say about the book. The plot moves along and decent character development; however the plot is pretty formularized. I really hated the cliff hanger ending. TO me, such an ending is a sign of pure laziness. I am a strong believer that each book in a series should stand alone.

Despite these faults I will try and read the Ender's series.

>172 BobVTReader: The touchstone for Earth Unaware leads to: Earth unaware
by Mack Reynolds

Finished Use of Weapons. That book really packs a punch.