Apocalyptic & Post-Apocalyptic Appreciation Thread

Had to do it. Been wanting to for a couple of years now, and have just kept putting it off. I wasn't sure if there would be enough interest, but there certainly seems to be. I will admit I was spurred on to start this thread both by my latest read, The City of Mirrors, and by imyril 's thread and blog post.

I am a tad obsessed with this genre and for several years now I have been trying to figure out why. Maybe you good people can help me understand. :o) Part of me suspects it's because I find the veneer of civilization to be quite thin and fragile, but there must be more to it than that.

I shall return later in the day with a list of my favorites. Hope many of you will do the same.

I'm appreciative!

In the last six months I read these P-A novels:

Station Eleven
Alas, Babylon
A Gift Upon the Shore
On the Beach
Kahayatle
The Dog Stars
City of Mirrors

These two non-fiction books might qualify as pre-apocalyptic:

The Sixth Extinction
A Short History of Progress

Of the seven novels I'd have to say A Gift Upon the Shore and On the Beach were my favorites, with Station Eleven very close behind. City of Mirrors has vampires in it, so it's kind of in its own category, but only in some ways. Alas, Babylon was quite good, but did seem more dated than On the Beach for some reason. (Despite the fact I believe it was written a few years afterward.)

I love this genre too. Always have. I read Alas, Babylon when I was young. I've read A Canticle for Leibowitz more than once. I've got Wolf Road coming to me this month.

I've noticed an interesting trend with some epic fantasy series being set in post-apocalyptic worlds. The Shattered Sea trilogy by Joe Abercrombie and The Red Queen's War by Mark Lawrence being two recent ones I've enjoyed.

I've got to move Station Eleven up the TBR list.

I wonder if I should don my book bullet proof garb...
Nah!
I'm just going to make a very long list of books to possibly acquire.

I read Leibowitz back in college and then again in my 30s. I'll admit I enjoyed it more the first time, but understood it a lot better the second. Maybe that's why I didn't laugh as hard. Speaking of re-reads, I desperately want to reread The Stand but I'm afraid the suck fairy will be flitting about.

Canticle is one of my all-time favorites, as is Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun: a young man is raised in the guild of torturers, whose metallic home is an ancient space ship. He is expelled for the sin of mercy and must make his way through a mysterious world, which combines medieval settings with the occasional appearance of stellar technology and beings. The sun is dying; who can bring a new one? Wolfe's language is famously brilliant, his characters complex, his plot occasionally unintelligible.

Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling.

I've also got to add a plug for I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman which came out of nowhere and just grabbed a hold of me. I love that book and fear it's greatly under-appreciated.

I will definitely be adding to my TBR list because of this thread! I love this genre. I will admit most of my reads are YA, though. It'll be good to get some grown up titles.

I've read THe Hunger Games and Divergent. Loved The Hunger Games. Divergent was good, but I didn't care for the second one and still have the third one on my pile.

Loved Station Eleven because it was so much more hopeful than the others. Hated Dog Stars; couldn't get past the disjointed writing.

I've read a couple that have zombies in them. World War Z and The Enemy. Enjoyed them both.

Would The Fifth Wave count?

I love this genre too. Your reason, Clamairy, applies well to my outlook. As horrific as were the events of 911, I oddly found myself chillingly comforted that, if nothing else, my worldview made sense. What didn't make sense is that there would be no attacks, no disasters, no catastrophes beyond the ordinary. We exist in denial of the thin veneer that separates our lives of comfort from anarchy, chaos and destruction. Sorry to be so cheerful!

I'll have to think about other apocalyptic or post- books I've loved. Many greats have been mentioned. (On The Beach is a favorite, and the film a mournful, ironic lament that is not to be missed!) But one I've always loved - and I think it started me on this road, at least as far as reading goes -- is George Stewart's classic Earth Abides. At least the first two thirds. I think it still holds up pretty well.

Yay, clam for starting the thread!

I don’t read a ton of apocalypse fiction, but I think the books I gravitate towards or remember the most have science at their cores. Not necessarily vilifying science or scientists, but having something plausible as the reason for mankind’s annihilation. Here’s a few I liked a lot -

Blood Music - Greg Bear - a scientist experimenting with nano-technology is fired from his lab and has to inject himself with his serum in order to get it out. It ends up mutating inside his bloodstream and the end result is intelligent cells. A single cell with roughly the intelligence of a human; what happens when they get together? It’s really interesting and I love it despite some flaws.

Oryx and Crake - Margaret Atwood - again, a scientist changes humanity, this time with the idea of doing so, borne out of disgust and defeat stemming from the bad side of human nature. The world Atwood created for Snowman was bewildering and I loved the hidden betrayal at the heart of why he’s left behind.

The Stand - Uncle Steve - the godfather of post-apoc fic and I love it for many reasons, but the first is how individuals get their usefulness back. I often wonder if part of our problem with overpopulation is that people aren’t important as individuals anymore. Any one of us, while personally irreplaceable in our small spheres, is replaceable in the big scheme of things. None of us holds the keys to some special knowledge or skill that can’t be found in someone else. When the vast majority of people die, our skills become important again. I think King addresses this well in The Stand as well as having a scientific reason for the die off.

Books I also like are The Chrysalids (which is really more of a dystopian novel) and The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham, Earth Abides by George Stewart and the Countdown trilogy by Ben H. Winters.

>11 Bookmarque: "people aren’t important as individuals anymore"

I think you've put a finger on one big reason why post-apocalyptic stories appeal. We'd all like to be truly heroic in our lives, and imagining a world in great distress, but not real, allows us to run that script.

Am about to put the kayak in the water for the day, but I wanted to chime back to you 2wonderY.

It's something I really remember from The Stand - when the good guys were putting things back together in, what? Boulder?, they really had to mine for talent among the people. Who knew anything about electricity? Who knew about growing food or animal husbandry? Who knew about building? I think the vet became the defacto medical guy. That kind of specialness and preciousness is missing these days with 4 billion of us now.

Conversely, the absence of this factor in Earth Abides is also interesting. The inherent laziness of people as a species really came across in that book for me. The generations born into the decimated world just wanted to play and continue to eat out of cans. Poor Ish could imagine a time when the cans went bad or ran out and the people would be really screwed so he introduced the bow and arrow because damn, how frigging long would that take them to figure out?

Yay! People are posting!

>6 Jim53: I've never read any Gene Wolfe, and I think it's time to rectify that.

>7 OldSarge: Holy shit! :o) I know I see you on Facebook pretty much daily, but I can't remember the last time you posted in here. Dies the Fire is one of the books on my mental back burner.

>8 tottman: That is not available for Kindle in English. I'll see what is available in other formats.

>9 catzteach: I thought The Hunger Games was an amazing story, even if I wasn't crazy about the writing. The writing in the Divergent series was better, but the story was not as good, IMO. I agree about Station Eleven. World War Z was great fun, and I'm sure The 5th Wave counts. I haven't read it yet. I'm 29th in line for the Kindle version on OverDrive. Haa haa

>10 stellarexplorer: I started Earth Abides this morning! Enjoying it very much so far. I've had a lousy head cold all week so I've allowed myself a bit more reading time than I normally would.

You said "We exist in denial of the thin veneer that separates our lives of comfort from anarchy, chaos and destruction." Yes, we do, and we watch other civilized areas of the world face chaos (ex: Syrian refugees crisis) and we just go about our daily business as if it's not happening. I realize that as individuals we can't take every horror in the world to heart or it would impact our ability to function, but I think we've gotten too adept at ignoring such things.

>11 Bookmarque: I have The Chrysalids loaded on my Kindle. I bought a used copy a year or two ago but discovered it was much too yellowed to actually read. I also loved The Stand. I read it while I was home sick from work back when I lived in a busy neighborhood on Long Island. I got so sucked into that book that I would periodically get up and look out the window to make sure people were still walking & driving by. I thought Triffids was fantastic. What a great surprise. Just about peed my pants laughing at the old movie version of it, though. How long has it been since we did that group read in here? I started Oryx and Crake several years ago and couldn't get into it, but I had a lot going on at the time. I do plan to try it again as I've enjoyed everything else of Atwood's that I've read. Blood Music sounds good. I might have to track that down.

>12 2wonderY: Yes, I think she's on to something with that thought.

Clam, it has probably been several years since I posted here.

A series I really enjoyed years ago were the books in The Pelbar Cycle by Paul O. Williams. I'm can't remember how long after the "apocalypse" they take place, but there are some references and signs of it mentioned in the books.

From way back when I seem to recall that most if not all of John Wyndham's books were set in post-apocalyptic scenarios. But then I read them while still at school, some 50 years ago.

>17 hfglen: If it has been that long, you really should reread at least The Day of the Triffids. After all, it's all about plants!

Ambulatory, carnivorous plants!

I really liked the Dies the Fire series, at least the first part of it. The first trilogy is a good story arc, and I also read volumes 4-9 but haven't gone any further with it. It is a good example of people rediscovering survival skills after the fall of civilization.

Have you read anything else by Stirling? I hear that he has other series' but I haven't seen any of them yet.

Some great books mentioned here! I'm another fan of post-apocalyptic fiction, and am delighted to see a few listed above that I haven't read yet.

One I haven't yet seen mentioned is Heiro's Journey. I haven't read it in a while, so am not sure how it holds up, but I liked it a lot when I first read it many years ago.

Another is Riddley Walker, which is excellent, if a bit different.

One that is in the paranormal genre, but also post-apocalyptic is Magic Bites, where the end of the world as we know it is caused by waves of magic causing technology to fail. (edited to change to the first book in the series, for some reason I put one of the more recent books, and yes, it is a series)

Just went looking for some lists and found a couple that seem pretty inclusive -

https://www.librarything.com/list/504/all/Its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it (member driven)

https://www.librarything.com/list/10225/all/Apocalyptic (tag driven)

and a wider net - https://www.librarything.com/list/9443/all/Big-Reading-List-of-Dystopian-and-Apo... (member driven)

One I would also recommend is Summer Rising. Not so much post-apocalypse, more post-collapse. I re-read it recently, and found it still very good.

>15 OldSarge: Well, welcome back! I'm so happy you posted in this thread. I suspect we share the belief that a big chunk of humanity is begging to be zombie chow anyway.

>16 rastaphrog: Thanks, I've added it to my list.

>17 hfglen: I've read two so far. The Midwich Cuckoos wasn't really PA, but they sure could have been headed towards that end.

>18 SylviaC: & >19 Bookmarque: Bwaa haa haa! Yes, hfglen, you must reread it.

>20 Darth-Heather: Sweet cheeses, there are more than nine of them? I might rethink starting the series then. Or limit myself to the first three.

>21 NorthernStar: Three more to keep an eye out for. I'm going to have to make a google drive list, I think.

>22 Bookmarque: Sweet! Many thanks! There are some on those lists that I'd almost forgotten about: The White Plague, Watchmen, Childhood's End and Galápagos, to name a few.

One of my favorite PA books is The Parable of the Sower. It blew my socks off. Also, Colson Whitehead's Zone One rocks, if you don't mind zombies. I don't have a preference for natural disasters over man-made ones, as long as the writing is good. I also enjoyed Wool quite a bit.

Such a great thread! It's funny, I always go see apocalypse/post-apocalypse movies but don't read a lot of books in the genre. I'm going to have to give some of these a try. The Stand is definitely going on my wishlist.

A look at my "end of the world" tag reveals the following -
The girl with all the gifts - Excellent.
Death of Grass - Very good.
Testament of Jessie Lamb - Average.
The rapture - Average - poor but unusual in being the lead up to the apocalypse rather than during or after.
I am legend - Very good

and I'd recommend The Stand and on the Beach too.

Starting In The After by Demitria Lunetta. This is her first novel and there is a second book in the series. It's about the world being takin over by "them". The survival of a 14 year old girl and a toddler she finds in an abandoned supermarket.

The Countdown Trilogy I mentioned above is all about what happens leading up to a disaster - in this case a large meteor that will hit Earth. They're unusual in the fact that the lead character is a cop, well at the beginning he is. Later, not so much. It starts with The Last Policeman and goes for two more books, each leading to the next and the final one ends well. I liked them quite a bit, and not just because they're set in my native New Hampshire, although that was fun.

>23 Maddz: I can't seem to find that one in any format but used paper back.

>25 Narilka: Join the party! Make a loooong list. :o)

>26 infjsarah: The Girl with All the Gifts looks great. Wishlisted!

>27 Book-Dragon1952: Also wishlisted.

>28 Bookmarque: Found the first one up for grabs on OverDrive. Yay!

>28 Bookmarque: >29 clamairy: The Countdown Trilogy goes on sale fairly frequently for Kindle. I got all three books a while ago, but haven't read them yet.

It's a good series. The way society dissolves when there's no future really shows its fragility. All my copies came from the E.R. Program here on LT.

>30 SylviaC: Thanks for letting me know. They are all available free for the Kindle through my library. So I doubt I'll buy them, unless they are REALLY cheap.

>31 Bookmarque: I fell off the ER bandwagon a few years ago and never got back on. I still have three books sitting here waiting to be finished and reviewed. I should be ashamed, but I'm really not... LOL If/when I start taking part again I'll probably only be requesting ebooks. I do still read some physical copies of books, but not like I used to.

About 40 years ago Chip Delany won a Nebula for The Einstein Intersection, which combines mythology (Ringo as Orpheus?) with genetic mutation caused by the radiation left behind by a dead civilization. Lobey is a good character and Delany's writing is sometimes beautiful. The book also has the virtue of being much shorter than many of Delany's.

I have enjoyed many of these books, and I've thought of a few more:

Postman by David Brin
Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven
The Dragons of Pern by Anne McAffrey

Partly because of these stories, I have been collecting "how to" books, although I don't have an empty septic tank to hide them in. And the Pern stories show a great way to pass knowledge along with the travelling minstrels in their songs.

It's certainly true that our civilization is fragile; knowledge is so important. And seeds!

>29 clamairy:
Used is the only way you'll find it. There was supposed to be a sequel, but it never materialised. Also, the US title appears to be different The Calling of Bara.

Come to think of it, you could try The Council Wars series by John Ringo, the first is There Will be Dragons. Post-apocalypse, but far future. They're all available as ebooks, the first 2 are in the Baen Free Library.

>34 nhlsecord: Yes, The Postman is on my virtual TBR pile, but I had no clue McAffrey's book was PA.

SEEDS! Yes, and canisters of propane.

>35 Maddz: The first Ringo book is free for the Kindle! Thank you.

>20 Darth-Heather: there are nine of them!? I had no idea. The Husband said he thought they got a bit strange near the end of the series.

A good kid's one is The City of Ember.

I'm going to add a few of these to my TBR list. :)

This is a great list. I don't think anyone's yet mentioned Life as we knew it and sequels, which are the apocalypse as-it's-happening, told in diary form. It's YA and the narrator of the first book is a thoughtful teenage girl who relates the mounting disasters compellingly. I haven't read the sequels yet because I'm afraid they won't be as good as the first one.

Some that are on my tbr pile:
The city not long after
The fifth sacred thing
Vanishing point
Always coming home

>36 clamairy: I never considered the Pern books to be PA either.

>39 rastaphrog: What's more apocalyptic than an alien entity that falls from the sky and destroys everything it touches? Does it have to be Earth that suffers the apocalypse?

>40 jjwilson61: Plus, there are pandemics that whittle the population down pretty significantly.

>39 rastaphrog: >40 jjwilson61: & >41 SylviaC: - I knew nothing about the series. It suddenly got much more interesting!

>38 Sakerfalcon: Added two of those to my bulging wishlist. Thank you.

>37 catzteach: Saw the movie several years ago and enjoyed it.

>42 clamairy: Hold on . . . You host the Green Dragon, but haven't read the Pern books? Pern is full of green dragons! And blue and brown and bronze and gold ones. And one white one. To say nothing of the fire lizards.

I've been meaning to catch up on this thread but it's clearly a very dangerous thread with so many book bullets - it feels like an apocalyptic attack on my bookshelf!

Having quickly scanned down the books mentioned so far, I spotted The Death of Grass by John Christopher which is one I've been trying to locate a copy of for years - definitely needs adding to my wishlist so that I remember to track down a copy before too long. By the same author are two series that were real favourites back when I was in my teens. Firstly The Tripods trilogy (this is on my pile to re-read, but since I last read it there has been a prequel added, so I have only read The White Mountains, The City of Gold and Lead and The Pool of Fire) and the second series was The Prince in Waiting series (The Prince in Waiting, Beyond the Burning Lands and The Sword of the Spirits). These are "old-fashioned" teen fiction - probably about half the size of today's teen/young adult books, and suffer from somewhat of a lack of really solid female characters but I still look back fondly.

More recently I read The Age of Miracles by Karen Thompson Walker. Here on LT it was listed as being YA but the local library had it in general circulation. The story is told by a teenaged girl as the world around her changes - looking at a couple of reviews on here, the main character was supposed to be 11 at the start of the book - she didn't read that way, I would have put her a few years older more in the 14-16 range. The story revolves around what happens to individuals and society as a whole as the world begins to slow down in its rotation - gradually day and night each become longer. As the character grows older there is a romantic element to the story, which I know some people don't like. Although I liked it for being different to anything else I'd tried, it is somewhat depressing with little hope within it.

>44 SylviaC: Mea culpa. I'm sure there's a copy of the first book in the house somewhere... Not that it counts. Maybe I'll poke my nose into it and see if it's worth some time. :o)

>45 Peace2: I read The Age of Miracles a few years ago. I liked it enough to give it a 3.5. I think it was designated YA because of the sketchy science behind it. Which I'll admit bothered me somewhat. I kept thinking that if our planet was rotating more slowly then gravity would be impacted.

The thing about the Pern books is that the history gradually unfolds and I don't want to explain anything. But the coping mechanisms were interesting and I love stories in which adversities are overcome in such suitable and imaginative ways.

And the dragons had good senses of humour ;-)

>46 clamairy: The only mention of gravity changing that I recall was a passing comment about them not being able to play ball games anymore and even at the time I remember thinking surely that wouldn't be the only thing to be affected.

>47 nhlsecord: :o) Okay. It does sound intriguing. I really didn't know anything about the series.

I just looked and there are 25+ of them, so I am not sure I even want to think about dipping my toe into that particular pool. :o/

>48 Peace2: Exactly my thoughts! I'm pretty sure in elementary school I was told that if the Earth stopped its rotation we'd all go zipping off into space. So I would guess even just slowing it down a wee bit would have some impact.

So, some thoughts on Earth Abides, which I am about 2/3rds the way through. I am enjoying it, but every once in a while I hit some horribly racist or sexist comment and my eyeballs pop out on stalks. I just looked it up and saw it was published in 1949, so I guess I'll cut the author some slack.
But still...

Some great PA books being mentioned here. I don't think any of these have been brought up yet:

Wool Omnibus by Hugh Howey was much better than I expected.
The Long Tomorrow by Leigh Brackett is a classic of the PA genre.
The Torch by Jack Bechdolt is pretty good if you can find it, (check Singularity & Co. for the e-book).
The Road by Cormac McCarthy is grim. Great writing but a very dismal scenario.
The Children of Men by P.D. James. Good book. Good movie - but only loosely based on the book.
Damnation Alley by Roger Zelazny
Swan Song by Robert R. McCammon
An Epitaph in Rust by Tim Powers

Oh, wait, I forgot a few...
Dreamsnake by Vonda McIntyre
Mockingbird by Walter Tevis
Lilith's Brood (Xenogenesis Omnibus) by Octavia Butler
The Sunset Warrior series by Eric Van Lustbader

>50 ScoLgo: Thanks for your list. I'll check them all out more thoroughly when I have some time. (I'm already intrigued by Swan Song.)

I think I mentioned Wool back in #24, but I forgot to talk about The Road. That has to be the most powerful PA book I've ever read.

Edited to add: Welcome to the group! :o)

>46 clamairy: >48 Peace2: By a curious coincidence I have just finished The third QI Book of General Ignorance, which has a piece on what would really happen if the earth stopped rotating. It would indeed be fatally unpleasant, but not because of lack of gravity. Inertia would see you continuing to move (but not off into space) even though the ground under you stops, at least until you hit something solid -- think "supersonic car crash" -- and then there would be a supersonic gale-force wind for a few minutes, they say. Then the daylight side of the earth would be baked, night side frozen. There would be no more magnetic field, so if you managed to survive so far, the sun's ultraviolet would get you.

Now go and complete the post-apocalyptic story ...

>37 catzteach: I think as of now there are twelve books to the Dies the Fire series. The first three are one story arc, and are pretty good. The fourth one starts a new story with the next generation of survivors, and that story continues through to the ninth. I suspect it keeps going in the next three, but I haven't gone into those yet and i'm not sure I will. It is an interesting concept but it starts to get a bit played out.

>51 clamairy: So you did. I missed that when scanning the thread. Have you read Shift or Dust yet? I intend to get to those soon-ish...

Thank you for the welcome!

>50 ScoLgo: ScoLgo - I'd forgotten Dreamsnake - fab book.

Not sure if it fits with a lot of the others but just read Memory of Water, PA following climate change. Focus on resource scarcity and scavenging.

>55 infjsarah: Agreed - it's a fave of mine.

>53 Darth-Heather: Good to know. I have the first three. After rereading the first two, I'll finish out the series (eventually). I know my library has a lot of his stuff and I bet they have all of this series.

>52 hfglen: Good to know, Hugh.

>54 ScoLgo: I have not. I enjoyed Wool, but there are so many other books piled up in my virtual and real stacks I decided to wait a while before I read any more Howey. I thought the story got a bit weaker as it went along. That first story in the omnibus, though... that was amazing.

>56 brakketh: That also looks good. I see you're reading Morning Star! That series is also sort of PA. Maybe it could be called a Post Post-Apocalyptic world.

Looks like my Summer will be filled with PA excellence. :o)

>51 clamairy: Well... look-ee here: The kindle version of Swan Song is on sale today.

>59 clamairy: Yes something like dystopian post-apocalyptic. I am looking forward to the end of the series though I am worried it will end on a meritocratic/free-market capitalism will fix society note. I really enjoyed Memory of Water and as it was a Finnish author and took a bleak view of how society may handle resource scarcity.

>60 ScoLgo: Dagnabbit! Not only did I buy it, but then the Audible narration only cost an additional $3.99, so I snagged that as well. (I often listen to books a couple of years after I've read them, to cement them in place.)
Thank you! :o)

>61 brakketh: I won't say a word. I thoroughly enjoyed the series, but I was very glad to be done with it. I should not have read them all back-to-back.

>56 brakketh: I really want to read memory of water, it sounds so good. The author has a new book out now too, which also looks great : City of woven streets.

>5 clamairy: I desperately want to reread The Stand but I'm afraid the suck fairy will be flitting about.

I read The Stand for the first time only a few years ago. I had bought the extended, 700 page, edition, that King said (in his inroduction) was the original version that had been cut down by his editors. He said it was being published in the extended version due to the demands of his fans.

Perhaps reading the unedited version was a mistake. I felt that the editors had done a great job by purging some 100s of pages.

>64 pgmcc: I may reread the old version, then!

I prefer the original version of The Stand. I have both, but have only re-read the one from 78 and that one is rat-holey enough, the extended version is nuts. And way to much time is spent with Trashcan man and I think Harold...inside his creepy little mind, a place I don't need more of.

Oh and FWIW, I couldn't get through Swan Song. Had it as an audio, but gave it the boot. Too supernatural for me and far, far too long. It's a DNF.

>66 Bookmarque: Swan Song on audio was a DNF for me as well. Wasn't getting into the story and the narrator was super annoying. I may give it a try someday in written form.

I've only read the extended edition of The Stand which I found several years ago at a used book store. I loved it. Don't have a frame of reference to compare the edited version.

>66 Bookmarque: & >67 tottman: Uh oh. Maybe I should try to return the audio. :o/

Unless you get it used, the original is unavailable. Bummer. Although I'm sure some enterprising person has a webpage to tell you which pages to skip in the expanded version.

This is one of those threads that's just going to increase my To be Read shelf!

Another book I'll add to the discussion is Z for Zachariah is a YA post-nuclear war and nerve gas survival story from the early 1970s. It's told from the point of view of a 16 year old survivor who just happened to live in a valley that escaped the problems.

I always had trouble connecting O'Brien as the author of this book and Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh, but he wrote them both.

>67 tottman: I've only read that one also and also found it excellent.

>70 ggprof: Yes, it's dangerous in here! Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for the O'Brien.

I finished Earth Abides and posted about it here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/220568#5624111 I already started The Last Policeman, and it is proving to be just the palate cleanser I required.

>52 hfglen: As the Earth doesn't actually stop rotating just gradually slows - I think elements of what you describe do happen - increasing day/night lengths lead to more extremes in temperature and increased ultraviolet implications - but no inertia type events at the point the story stops.

Another strange one that I happened across in the local library late last year was The Ship by Antonia Honeywell (which bizarrely wants to link to A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens). Set initially in London, government has collapsed and riots have ensued and only people with the right identity cards are entitled to food etc - my memory is vague as to what had led to the collapse of government and what had happened elsewhere in the world (clearly something as even the rich don't just head off to pastures new). The story centres around Lalla a naive sixteen year old whose father has bought and stocked a cruise ship and allowed a carefully selected cross-section of people to buy passage on the ship with his family. Lalla has been very protected by her parents and has little concept of the world outside until she boards the ship and begins to hear the other passengers' stories. Until then she has accepted all that she has been told and so it is not until that point that she begins to question her life in relation to her parents. She matures in other ways too and becomes romantically involved. I remember feeling quite optimistic about the prospect of the book but actually somewhat disappointed once I'd read it - I think it was pretty character driven in relation to perspectives of events and decisions, rather than having much of anything exciting happening. It felt like it was going to be something different to the usual future dystopian fare - I'm hesitant to classify it as truly 'apocalyptic' because for the life of me I can't remember what happened to collapse government (maybe it was never made clear?)

>74 Peace2: That sounds interesting, though I think I prefer my PA with at least some action.

>73 clamairy:

I enjoyed The Last Policeman series.

>76 suitable1: I am thoroughly enjoying this first one. :o)

So I think I might start work on a list, but maybe post it as part of the group wiki so everyone can add to it as they see fit. I want to try to separate A/PA fiction into sub-genres: maybe natural disasters vs. man-made, etc. What do you people think? Is it worth the effort?

Yes, please. My current sticky note/random selection is rather amusing, but I don't want to miss anything. And there are fantastic recommendations here!

>77 clamairy: Clamairy, it just dawned on me to connect your A/PA interests to our shared fascination with the disappeared Malaysian flight and global viral epidemics!

>79 stellarexplorer: You're right, there is a connection! :o)

>78 Mareofthesea: I'll get working on it.

I finished The Last Policeman and I've put the second on hold through OverDrive. I've started The Chrysalids.

Oooh, I really like The Chrysalids. Enjoy!

I finished To Sail A Darkling Sea by John Ringo; the second installment in his zombie apocalypse series. The first one, Under a Graveyard Sky, was actually pretty entertaining, but this one just slogs along and doesn't really get anywhere. There are many excruciatingly lengthy dialogues about different types of ammo.

>81 Bookmarque: Thanks! I'm sure I will. Loved the other two of his that I read.

>82 Darth-Heather: Oh, that's too bad. Does the first one wrap up well enough for it to stand alone?

>83 clamairy: No, it doesn't. The first one has a good premise, and the plot moves along at a decent pace, but it is mostly setting up a long-term storyline. I might get around to the third one eventually, but if that one doesn't redeem the series I will drop it.

I have a couple on my tbr shelves tagged with PA that haven't been mentioned here as yet. Sleepless by Charlie Huston and Feed by Mira Grant. Not having actually read them as yet I can't verify personally if they're any good but both seem generally well regarded, although both also have some negative reviews. I've read and enjoyed other books by Charlie Huston but they were very much in the noir/hard-boiled area even if there were vampires in some of them.

Feed is excellent. I like all Mira Grant's books, though. Also all the books she writes under her real name, Seanan McGuire.

>84 Darth-Heather: I think I'll pass then. Too bad.

>85 AHS-Wolfy: & >86 tardis: Feed is now on my 'to find soon-ish' list.

>87 clamairy: I think your Feed touchstone is pointing to a different Feed.

>87 clamairy: I'll give another recommendation for Feed, but be aware that is only the first part of a trilogy, followed by Deadline and Blackout.

>88 pgmcc: Fixed!
>89 NorthernStar: Yes, I know.

I would ordinarily not be so emphatic in general conversation, but Feed is the rare book that elicited such a strong reaction in me that I think the best I can do is to quote from my LT review:

"Embarrassingly bad. Execrable writing, Shameful that this book won awards...." The review gets worse from there. Not covered in those brief words were the rank immaturity of the protagonists, and the internal illogic of the plot.

My take. I'm sorry for such harsh words, but I feel obligated to introduce another viewpoint. I know there's a wide range of things to enjoy in a book.

>91 stellarexplorer: I think I just nudged it further back on the TBR mound, with my toe...

>91 stellarexplorer: I have not read Feed (and won't) but... my take on Parasite, (written by the same author), echoes many of the sentiments you outlined; immature protagonist, illogical plot, characters behaving in ways that make no sense, awkwardly stilted dialog, etc. A real disappointment for me as I was expecting an award-worthy read at the time.

I thought Feed was excellent. I didn't enjoy Parasite all that much, but I thought Feed was very well thought out. Interesting developments much further down the road from a zombie apocalypse with changes in government, media and security. I think it is one of the more thought out zombie worlds.

>90 clamairy: Could that Touchstone error be referred to as a, "mis-Feed"?

Ducks quickly to avoid book bouncing off my head!

As long as I've been a nay-sayer, let me recommend a PA book that I loved. It may be a bit hard to locate, and it's a shame this book is not better remembered. It's David R Palmer's 1985 Emergence.

Features delightful resourceful precocious 12 year old protagonist, whose telegraphic style of journal entries creates unforgettable story of lone girl out to somehow survive. Everyone I've recommended it to has been charmed.

Emergence was an enjoyable read.

>95 pgmcc: *groan*

>93 ScoLgo: Thank you. I think I've got enough other A/PA books to read before I consider attempting any of Mira Grant's works.

>96 stellarexplorer: & >97 suitable1: That one appears to only be available in used paperback.

Yesterday I recalled a PA book that I enjoyed in the late 70s called False Dawn. I see it has some lousy ratings and reviews here on LT. So it goes...

I purchased Emergence as a used paperback. Doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. I think I got a reasonable copy.

I just requested Emergence through inter-library loan. I'm intrigued.

I just read Oryx and Crake, have started The Year of the Flood, and have Maddaddam waiting on my Kindle. Sometime I'll get around to posting what apocalyptic books I've read, and what is in my TBR pile.

>98 clamairy: >99 stellarexplorer:

Since I'm an old guy, I have a "first printing" paperback.

>101 suitable1: Nice!

>100 SylviaC: I hope you enjoy it Sylvia -- Do let us know!

>100 SylviaC: If it meets with your approval then perhaps I will hunt it down. I know... I have to give Atwood's trilogy another shot.

>101 suitable1: Old guy? :oP How well has the book aged? The problem with most of my paperbacks from HS and college is that they are yellowed so badly that I can't read them. I need to get rid of them, but I know what happens to old yellowed paperbacks and I can't bear the thought of it. :o(

>102 stellarexplorer: >103 clamairy: I got a message saying that it wasn't available for ILL. I kind of expected that, because a 30 year old Bantam paperback must be pretty fragile.

Uch. That book deserves a better fate! It's really a fun read.

For my sins I got involved in having to learn fast about paper conservation some years ago. The problem you're all describing here is that the pulp paper was made from 30-60 years ago was far too acidic, and decays relatively quickly. I came away with the impression that in cases of dire need (the technique is very expensive and not a little iffy) it is possible to arrest and maybe even partly reverse the decay.

>106 hfglen: Well???!!! I doubt I'll consider implementing it, but now I need to know about this technique!

Now that I'd need to look up, which will take at least a couple of hours. As I recall, it involves standing the book fanned open on a grid over something that gives off mildly alkaline fumes, in a large (necessarily) desiccator at somewhat reduced air pressure. I don't recall any way of monitoring progress. You begin to see the problems, I trust?

>108 hfglen: Yup. Would be cheaper and less time consuming to seal it in a vacuum bag.

I'm going to add a series that doesn't appear to be widely read. The series is The Last P.I. and the first book is Dover Beach. The main character is a young man who grew up after a "limited" nuclear war that broke America but didn't cause the complete collapse of civilization. He has read many of the "classic" mystery novels and decides that he wants to be a private eye, too. Different that many of the Post-Apocalyptic stories. The first of the series was written in 1987 and the other two are recent. I found the first as a free e-book but purchased the next two.

>103 clamairy:

I don't have as much of a problem with yellowing as with the pages become brittle and also becoming loose from the binding.

>111 suitable1: That's all part of the same problem, caused by acidic decay of the lignin in badly made paper and the chlorine from user-unfriendly bleach.

>111 suitable1: That too.

>112 hfglen: And the questionable treatment helps with these issues as well?

It will certainly slow the decay down and hopefully arrest it, but if the paper's crumbling already, there's precious little to do other than look for a clean(er) copy.

At the risk of being tedious, I found my notes on finishing Emergence 10 years ago:

"One of the great pleasures in life is introducing people to things one loves so they too can share in the satisfaction.

For starters, this book has so many elements I find compelling: a post-apocalyptic survival story, fast-paced adventure, a resourceful child left to utilize her own resources.

What I could not have expected is the pluckish spirit of the protagonist -- ever charming and admirable -- and the one-of-a-kind narrative voice. The telegraphic speech works marvelously. I imagine the author adapted that from his work as a court stenographer."

And the drama of its discovery (redacted to remove references to actual individuals):

"It strikes me as such an odd wonder that we are having this conversation. This would not be happening were it not for an almost random decision three years ago.

I had boxes of books from our move into our present home ten years ago. I don't have enough bookcase space for all my books so many had remained in storage in a room long unused. The time came for my son (stellarkid) to take this room as his bedroom, so I went through the boxes in a rough way, removing the definite keepers, including most of the SF and dragging the rest of the books in boxes into the basement.

Some months later, I upgraded my organizational system for my SF. I began to wonder if perchance I had left any important SF in the boxes in the basement.

I went down to the basement and gave the boxes another once-over, pulling out some prized volumes that I had neglected. I came upon Emergence. I had never read it. I glanced at it, looked at the cover, what it was about. I have always been a sucker for post-apocalyptic fiction. I have lived most of my life feeling the end of civilization peaking just over my shoulder.

The book came upstairs, onto the Great Pile. What a surprise when I read it, and found it to be a true treasure! And then to share it with S and K, and to rekindle the pleasure Q had once found in it -- this is one of those unexpected but wonderful twists in life's path!"

>115 stellarexplorer: Ah, so it was a recent-ish read, and not something fondly remembered from your youth? I'll see if I can request a copy through inter-library loan. Great story, by the way. :o)

These suggestions are great! Many of my all-time favorites have been mentioned:

Dreamsnake
Emergence
A Gift Upon the Shore
The Stand
On the Beach
Z for Zachariah. Note: the movie version is unrecognizable and unwatchable.

I didn't see any of these listed yet -

Wolf of Shadows by Whitley Strieber. YA
This Perfect Day by Ira Levin
Anthem by Ayn Rand
Survivors by Terry Nation. Also a TV series.
The Line by Teri Hall (trilogy). YA
Blood Red Road by Moira Young (1st in Dust Lands trilogy). YA
Matched by Ally Condie (trilogy). YA
One Second After by William R. Forstchen

I didn't like Divergent series.

>38 Sakerfalcon:
I read Life As We Knew It and the other 3 in the series by Susan Beth Pfeffer. Good but harsh and gritty. 2nd one, The Dead and the Gone was gripping.

>117 nrmay: I completely forgot about Anthem which is the only Rand I've ever read. (And very likely to stay the only one.) I actually enjoyed it quite a bit, but thought it somewhat heavy-handed.

Which of the other ones that you hadn't seen mentioned are your favorites?

>118 clamairy:

The other Rand title that I quite liked was We the Living.
I must have read it decades ago but remember certain scenes vividly.

I have to admit that I like this genre a lot so I enjoyed all the ones listed.
Some are older; some are YA, which I noted.

I was delighted with this thread because it reminded me of several I've always meant to read, a few of them sit on my shelves right now.
I just started The Passage by Cronin today, thanks to LT suggestions!

Have we mentioned Embassytown by China Miéville? Under multiple layers of strangeness, it's ultimately about apocalypse narrowly averted.

>119 nrmay: I hope you enjoy it as much as I did! There are some enormous plot holes to be found, but the story made up for that for me. I know it didn't for some in here.

>120 hfglen: I don't recall seeing that one mentioned, but at this point I'm sure many titles have escaped my notice. (Which is why I'm glad this whole thread is here to peruse when needed.)

I just read Seveneves by Neal Stephenson. It is both apocalyptic (in the very near future) and post-apocalyptic (5000 years in the future). Quite a few people have said that they didn't find it as good as most of Stephenson's books, but I haven't read enough of them to judge that for myself. I thought the first part was fascinating, the second part tedious, and the third part a bit of both. Overall, for me, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives. I'm still getting my thoughts together for a longer report on my own thread.

>104 SylviaC: After reading your post, I had low hopes for ILL but I tried anyway. This morning I received notice that Emergence is on the hold shelf at my local branch! It took nearly a month but they somehow managed to get their hands on a copy. I did include WorldCat info with my request - and that included the location of the nearest copy, (in a town ~300 miles from here), so maybe that helped?

>123 ScoLgo: Oh, you're lucky! There only seems to be one copy in my province's libraries, and it isn't available for ILL. Be sure to tell us what you think of it!

>122 SylviaC: I have to agree the Seveneves is not quite up to the standard of much of Stephenson's other work, but he's so thoughtful and thorough that it's hard to imagine his writing a book that isn't pretty good. IMHO Cryptonomicon is a towering work of near-genius, and Anathem and Snow Crash are wonderful.

>125 stellarexplorer: I think that either Anathem or Snow Crash will be the next of Stephenson's books that I read, but not for a while yet.

>126 SylviaC: I have to believe you are in for a treat whenever you do tackle those, Sylvia. I haven't yet read The Baroque Cycle Trilogy, but it's on my list.

>122 SylviaC: I was quite disappointed with the Seveneves. Having grown up taking great interest in space exploration I found the whole explanation of the space station technology quite tedious and I was a bit annoyed at the nanobot capability described. For a hard Science Fiction writer I was saddend Stephenson had dropped into Fantasy. I found the third part of the book superfluous and a bit predictable.

I would strongly recommend Snow Crash. It is comparatively short for one of his books. It is also very funny. Like most of his books it does not have a great ending but the journey taking the reader to the end is well worth the effort.

Anathem is an excellent book. Again, the ending does not live up to the rest of the book but the concepts and treatment of Science is great fun.

REAMDE is excellent. It may be a 1,200 page doorstop but I whizzed through it in a week which is a testimony to how well the story grabbed me. I couldn't put it down.

>27 Book-Dragon1952: In the After just happens to be on sale for $1.99 for Kindle today. I snagged it... The reviews & ratings here on LT were quite good.

>128 pgmcc: and Reamde also demonstrates Stephenson's range, as it was more contemporary thriller done well than SF. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

>129 clamairy: thanks Clamairy - that does look well regarded. I just snagged a copy - I'm in the mood for that kind of diversion right now...

Finished In the After. I will say more in "my own thread" :q, but suffice it to say "Read at your own risk". It is startlingly amateurish. Yes, I'm sure there are those who will not be bothered by its glaring shortcomings, perhaps will be led by its pacing, but frankly this book made me cringe. It reads like something written by a middling high school student.*

>132 stellarexplorer: :o( Was it worse than Extinction Point?

>130 stellarexplorer: I agree. It also had the most satisfying ending of all his books.

For the record, I will be finishing up in the next day or two a book recommended by Sakerfalcon, specifically Vanishing Point. I'm still processing it, but I found it to be intriguing. Once I've seen how it gets resolved, I'll post a bit more.

>124 SylviaC:

So I finally started reading Emergence over the weekend and I am really, really enjoying it so far. Absolutely love the writing style choice the author made with this book; Very apropos to the main character's personality.

Only ~30% in but, if this holds up throughout, I will seriously consider purchasing one of the rather expensive used copies out there so I can have it available for a re-read one day. It's that good - at least so far.

So glad you're enjoying it, ScoLgo! So far, anyway ;)

>136 ScoLgo: Dagnabbit! I'm going to have to find this book somewhere in this state. Hmmm.... maybe I can drift over onto Massachusetts and look for it.

I think I'll just have to hope it gets released as an ebook sometime.

A crime that this book can't be found for less than $24 now. It really ought to be released as an ebook.

There are internet PDFs available, but I'm not sure I'd trust them.

It would be a shame if this book disappears from the world.

I filled out an inter-library loan request today. I do not have high hopes, but one never knows.

ETA: They just called from the library. Can't get it. :o(

The City, Not Long After is on sale for $1.99 at Amazon today...

I know >38 Sakerfalcon: has this on her TBR stack, but have any of you read this yet? All I need is the slightest nudge...

TC,NLA is on my TBR mountain as well. I remember opening it once and deciding it was not the right time. But I do intend to read it. Then again, I have I don't remember how many hundreds of books on my TBR.

I also have an old copy of Vanishing Point, which people seemed to have enjoyed and which I haven't read. I'm taking a week at the eastern tip of the north shore of LI the week after next, so I hope to do some serious reading!

>143 stellarexplorer: I think you'll enjoy Vanishing Point. Not the Great American Novel perhaps, but very enjoyable speculative fiction.

>143 stellarexplorer: You're headed to my old stomping grounds! :o) Enjoy the wine.

(I am actually considering moving back there at some point in the future. It depends on where my kids end up. My daughter is living in Manhattan these days, so she'd be closer to me there. I'm staying here for at least a few more years, but I desperately miss the shoreline.)

>145 clamairy: I recall your having history there, clammy. My father in law has a house in Orient. It would be a lovely place to settle: quiet, peaceful, beautiful, near the sea and all the lovely hidden inlets with bulrushes and the like. And great for bicycle riding - a passion for me -- except for the paucity of hills. Terrific place to read!

>144 jillmwo: Thanks Jill!

Funny, I read a book called Orient that was set in that very town. Not a bad book either.

>147 Bookmarque: I read that, too. The author took a few liberties, but stuck pretty close to actual setting. I hate to admit this but I enjoyed reading the somewhat pulpy Plum Island quite a bit.

>146 stellarexplorer: My main concern is the rising water. I guess I'd be safer not buying waterfront property. (Not that I could afford it... Well, I can afford it if there isn't already a house on it. LOL)

>148 clamairy: it's always hard for me to know whether I'm being irrational on the topic, but I agree with you clammy - sadly I'm not convinced Orient is going to exist in ten or twenty years.

>149 stellarexplorer: I agree. At least not in it's present state. And I'd be looking in Southold, most likely. I suspect it's a bit higher, especially on the Sound side. It's a sixty foot drop to the beach from Horton's Point where the lighthouse is. (I used to be a tour guide there, once upon a time.)

>136 ScoLgo: I read your review of Emergence, ScoLGo. So glad you enjoyed it!

Has anyone read or heard anything at all about School’s Out Forever by Scott K. Andrews? It's $1.99 on Amazon and Google today. There's only one review here on LT, but it's very favorable.

No, haven't heard of it, but nice to have Alice in my head as a result.

I'd be cautious. There's little to go on: one LT review and nine ratings. The reviewer liked it a lot and uses the word "brutal". Also, she liked Feed and Joe Abercrombie , which is a red flag for me. She describes a YA-like scene which would require a huge suspension of belief to accept, so the book would have to be extremely good to permit that. I'm skeptical. Perhaps more than is called for.

>153 Bookmarque: Same here! Which is even funnier because school starts here next week.

>154 stellarexplorer: Yeah, I'd already decided against it because of some of the reviews on Amazon. I've so many things on Mount Tooby that I shouldn't even be looking twice at some of this *insert personal favorite euphemism for lesser quality products.* Though that has never stopped me before.

>155 clamairy: The title even attracted me, and I don't read much of this genre. :)

>151 stellarexplorer: Yes! Emergence was very good. Thank you for putting it on my radar!
---

>152 clamairy: Hah! I recently read, "Snakes! Electric Chairs! Guillotines!: My Adventures in the Alice Cooper Group by Dennis Dunaway. It was an enlightening look into the formative years and subsequent rise and break-up of the original band that later transformed into an artist named Alice.

I will probably skip School's Out Forever since the single LT reviewer also gave Mira Grant's Parasite 4 stars - I think I was being kind to rate Parasite at 2 stars.

>157 ScoLgo: ScoLgo, I like the way you think!

>157 ScoLgo: Ha! Perfect timing. :o)

I just started Countdown City, the second book in The Last Policeman Trilogy that was recommended in post >28 Bookmarque: and seconded in >76 suitable1:.

Seems like you're enjoying them, at least enough to go for the second book.

I also like the slant it takes that if there is no future, people lose their shit. The Children of Men had this same idea behind it. No more children are being born and society unravels because there's nothing to live for. Very interesting that it seems so much of our will, joy, drive and ambition has to do with time after our individual deaths.

The Last Policeman trilogy is in my TBR backlog, and I've been looking for The Children of Men—I'll probably order it through ILL soon.

>161 Bookmarque: "Very interesting that it seems so much of our will, joy, drive and ambition has to do with time after our individual deaths."

It is interesting. It occurs to me when I ponder why I would get less joy from what I am currently doing - reading a book - were I to know that there will be no more children born and humanity will end, that it's not so much that my joy is specifically and inherently tied up in what happens after my death, as that I would be bereaved at the powerful sense of loss.

>161 Bookmarque: I am!

>161 Bookmarque: >163 stellarexplorer: I'm with stellar here. Even though I am fully aware that I'll be checking out I do not want the party to end. I do think many things would unravel, and a lot of folks would go 'bucket list' as the book calls it. I also think some would take a wait and see approach, and some would just end it on their own terms.

I enjoy the books like On the Beach, where everyone carries on with their everyday lives in the face of certain annihilation. I see it as a kind of fantasy world, because I just don't believe that would happen. A certain segment of the population might try, but so many people would quit that the resources and network simply wouldn't be there to keep everything rolling.

>165 SylviaC: Plus, the ones that didn't want to live that way would most likely make it extremely difficult for the ones that did want to carry on.

Just an FYI The Passage for Kindle is on sale at Amazon for $1.99 today... You know, in case anyone was interesting in this series and needed a nudge. I enjoyed it, but it is most certainly not everyone's 'thang.'

>142 clamairy: I read The city, not long after this weekend. It is very much PA fantasy rather than science, but I liked it a lot. There really are very few people left in the former USA - the final confrontation mentions 150 against 50. It imagines that everyone left in San Francisco was an artist of some kind, and when they are threatened by a former army general and his men who want to claim the city and rebuild the USA, they take a very artistic approach to guerrilla warfare which confuses the soldiers. The city itself seems to play a part in defending itself with various almost magical occurrences. My main quibble is that the action seems to take place only about 15-20 years after the Plague hits, but the young people don't know what America was - surely some of the older people might have passed this knowledge down? Still, I enjoyed the read and would recommend it if you want a more gentle, non-realistic but thoughtful PA book.

>167 Sakerfalcon: TC,NLA has been on my TBR for a very long time and just haven't found the right moment. Thanks for the reminder.

>167 Sakerfalcon: I didn't buy it because of my Kindle backlog, *mutters about 227+ unread items* but I'll probably snag it if it goes on sale in the future.

>169 clamairy: I bought it in a Kindle sale a year or two ago, so I think it does go on sale reasonably often. Still have to get around to reading it.

Catching up on the reading here.

>34 nhlsecord: I just happen to have a spare clean septic tank available. Send books. I will store them for you, double ziplock!

>171 2wonderY: I just happen to have a spare clean septic tank available

Having been involved in cleaning out* a septic tank some years ago I would shy away from doing anything with a septic tank, spare, clean, or of any other variety.

* By cleaning out I do not mean attaching a large extractor pump to the tank and throwing a switch. Without going into too much detail on the process I will list some of the tools we used: 40 gallon oil drum; shovels; rope. I think I have said enough.

Okay, this belongs here; not because it's fiction but because it's a fall-out shelter! I cannot even begin to imagine.
http://sobadsogood.com/2016/08/30/creepy-fallout-shelter-suburban-dream-1970s/

I can't be sure if I am most charmed by the YUGE pink marble bathroom or by the bone-dry swimming pool set in amidst a painted mural of the outdoors (but indoors, of course).

Honestly, I am rolling on the floor with laughter.

>173 jillmwo: Wow, that's something else!

>173 jillmwo: the yellow wallpaper ceiling is pretty special...

>173 jillmwo: I think that salmon coloured bathroom would drive me right around the bend before the isolation and claustrophobia ever got to me. The book I'm reading now has an implausibly huge domestic fallout shelter, but it leans more to the practical than the decorative.

>173 jillmwo: Oh... it's all just so vile. Were those colors actually popular then?

>177 clamairy: Alas, yes. I remember the avocado toilets my Mum installed in the 1970s. She went for orange accents in the kitchen and a most peculiar patterned orange and brown carpet in the breakfast room. As I recall, it featured (if that's the right word) Eskimos and igloos.

However, it was a distinct improvement from matting covering a terrazo floor, especially first thing in the morning in winter.

Looking at that fallout shelter reminds me of pictures of Diana Dors home before it was demolished. It also reminds me of a P-A film set in an underground shelter - maybe A Boy and His Dog?

>178 Maddz: I loved the ending in A Boy and His Dog.

>179 pgmcc: I only saw it the once and don't remember much about it.

>178 Maddz: Unfortunately I remember the avocado and orange kitchen appliances. LOL And the carpet color choices. But the combos in that shelter seemed extreme even for that era.

My sister is renovating the kitchen in the home she bought a few years ago that has the original 70s orange stove and dishwasher. I must add that they are both still working. I'm trying to imagine buying any kind of appliance now and having it function 40 years from now...

That is huge! Am I missing something? Don't A/C units have to be maintained? Who gets to go topside into the nuclear wasteland to fix those puppies when they break down or need cleaning?

>181 clamairy:. Fortunately my Mum's appliances were cream or white - coloured appliances would have cost more and my Dad didn't want to spend money on things that didn't directly affect him. Besides, they mostly dated from the 60s when the kitchen was extended into what was the outside loo and coal store. As I recall, the gas hob and grill lasted until the 90s and were only replaced by a later renovation.

It was things like the turquoise Venetian blind and the orange curtains and decorative kitchenalia that were installed in the 70s and lasted until my sister renovated to let the house out a couple of years ago.

>182 MrsLee: That's when things get interesting!

>173 jillmwo: Wow, that is very special! I will never be able to unsee that bathroom.

>171 2wonderY: I'll look you up when the time comes.

>173 jillmwo: I grew up in Florida. I've seen worse. Add FLUFF.

Just an FYI The Day of the Triffids is on sale at Amazon for today only for $1.99.

So a dystopian classic went on sale at audible a while back so I grabbed it - We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. All I can say is what a mess! It's disorganized, preachy and slow-moving, with barely any discernible plot. There are some great covers out there though -



Sorry they're so small, but check them out on the book's page.

>189 Bookmarque: I'm struggling through We now.

>189 Bookmarque: & >190 Morphidae:
I loved We.

I liked We a lot and want to reread it! Isn't it funny how some books lead to really polarized responses?

I just read Parable of the talents, which I think qualifies as A/PA. It's also rather scarily similar to what is currently happening in the USA. It is a gripping, disturbing and powerful book. Best read after Parable of the sower, to which it is a sequel.

>192 Sakerfalcon: Loved them both, but I preferred Sower more. Those are the only two Butler books I've read, and I was pretty much blown away by her storytelling skill. Have you read anything else of hers?

>193 clamairy: I'm not Sakerfalcon but my favorite so far has been the short story collection, Bloodchild. It just blew me away and I gave it 9/10 stars. And I don't particularly care for short stories.

The Genocides by Disch is one that hasn't been mentioned - mankind does not fare well in this one.

>193 clamairy: I'm not Sakerfalcon either but... I just began Seed to Harvest a couple of days ago. It's an omnibus of Butler's Patternist (a.k.a. Patternmaster) series. I'm just a little ways in but am already sucked completely into the world and characters.

I have previously read Kindred, which got a relatively rare 5-star rating from me, and the Lilith's Brood omnibus, which was my first foray into Butler's writing. I found it astonishing in vision, scope, and execution.

I recently began Octavia E. Butler by Gerry Canavan but had to stop reading because it's full of spoilers for Butler books I have not yet read.

I was going to read the Parable duology next but decided to go with the earlier Patternist books first. I may still get to the Parable books this year... we'll see...

I was late to the Butler party but she has quickly attained my favorite authors list. It's truly a shame she died so unexpectedly.

>194 Morphidae: :o) Thank you. I don't generally do short stories either, but I'll keep an eye out for that.

>195 alco261: One of the reviews here on LT said that book was "Very bleak – very, very bleak. But also quite witty and entertaining..." That sounds like my kind of thing.

>196 ScoLgo: I've bought a few more of hers when they've shown up as Kindle Daily Deals. How'd she manage to stay under the radar for so long? Was it because of her race or gender? I'm guessing it was both.

>193 clamairy:, >196 ScoLgo:

Regarding Octavia E. Butler, I read her Lilith’s Brood series (also known as Xenogenesis) earlier this year. That was my first experience reading her work and I was very impressed. The story was great, and the themes both interesting and disturbing.

Earlier this month I read Wild Seed. It held my interest, but I wasn’t as impressed. It had some similar themes as Lilith’s Brood, and the plot seemed bland to me. If I’d read this first, or if Lilith’s Brood hadn’t still been so fresh in my mind, I think I might have enjoyed it more. I’d like to read more of her work eventually, but I’m going to wait longer this time.

>193 clamairy: I'm glad others chimed in with their suggestions, as I've only read one other book by Butler, Dawn which is the first book of Lilith's brood. It was very good, and as I've since managed to get hold of the omnibus edition of the series I will read on.

Looks like the Seed to Harvest ebook omnibus is on sale at Amazon ($3.03), B&N ($3.99) & Google ($3.03). I resisted temptation briefly and then I snagged it for my Kindle. I'm not sure how long the price will stay that low.

It's £5.49 on Amazon UK which looks like a good deal (but not as good as $3.99...). This is likely because OpenRoad doesn't often discount in the UK because of different publishers (a major peeve when the author in question is Katherine Kurtz

>200 clamairy: They've bumped the price. I paid $1.99 ($2.17 w/tax) on October 2, from Amazon. Nevertheless, $3.03 for a 4-book omnibus is still a pretty great deal.

>202 ScoLgo: Agreed. Crappy greeting cards are more expensive!

>197 clamairy:, ok but just make sure you are in a reallllllly good mood - To get you in that frame of mind I would suggest first reading They Tore Out My Heart and Stomped That Sucker Flat and then dive into Genocides.... :-)

>204 alco261: Yeah, that won't be happening any time soon then. Been a rough couple of weeks here. :o/

>202 ScoLgo: Actually it was free, for some reason! They credited me the full amount with the word "Promotions" next to it.

>206 clamairy: Nice! You must have had some credits built up for Prime shipping or something. Promotional credits balance can be checked here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000811661#gc.

>207 ScoLgo: I had just checked it a day or two before, and I had video/games/music credit but nothing for Kindle editions. I might have picked up some credit in the interim from a dog poop bag order I made. :o) I somehow doubt it was for $3.00+, though. I usually only get a dollar or two at a time. Weird.

Looks like Ultimate Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook is $2.99 for Nook. Which means it can be read with the Nook or on any device that can read an epub file. I was tempted initially, but then I realized I'd really want this in print to have handy if civilization comes crashing down. :o)

>209 clamairy: Good reasoning!

>209 clamairy: If you had a Nook that wouldn't work after the apocalypse, it would be like that Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Meredith

>211 stellarexplorer: Exactly!

>211 stellarexplorer: is that the one with the glasses and "there was finally time..."? That one is painful.

>213 Darth-Heather: "Time enough at last!". That was the name of the episode too.

>213 Darth-Heather: >214 jjwilson61: Yes! Be careful what you wish for...

Okay, so who's read The 5th Wave?

Not I. Is it good? This may be just a curiosity, but the four biggest vote-getters of the LT reviews gave it the following ratings: 2 stars, 2 stars, 2 stars, 3 stars.

I'd like to hear that it's good

I put it down after a few pages and picked up Old Man's War instead. It's YA, which is fine. I just wasn't in the mood for it right now. I just want someone to tell me it's worth picking back up at some point. :o)

I read it. I liked it! I have even bought the sequels. Haven't yet read them.

Thanks. I'll pick it up again when I'm in a more suitable mood, then.
:o)

>220 clamairy:

You rang?

>221 suitable1: ;o)

>221 suitable1: 😂

Has anyone read The End of the World: Stories of the Apocalypse? It's on sale for $1.99 at Amazon today and I'm hemming and hawing. I don't usually enjoy short story collections much, and the reviews here on LT are good but not great.

>224 clamairy: Are you asking this because you want to read it or because it is cheap?

Both! Well, mostly because it's cheap. Plus there's a Gaiman story in there. ;o)

>226 clamairy: I asked that question because it can often help me make up my mind with regards to purchases.

In relation to Gaiman, I have had some experience of his short stories and found them better than his novels. I have not be won over by his books. I loved Good Omens but that was co-written by Terry Pratchett.

I think what I am saying is that a Gaiman story would not swing the decisionometer toward "buy" for me, but if you are into Gaiman, what are you waiting for?

ETA: Is the Gaiman story the real motivation for your wanting this e-book? (I cannot quite bring myself to call it a book.)

Only partially. It's mostly the topic that draws me. But I understand your point. I am a Gaiman fan, so that's not the issue. The 1000+ plus unread books on my shelves and loaded on my kindle are the issue.

The 1000+ plus unread books on my shelves and loaded on my kindle are the issue.

yike. I feel stressed by the 137 books in my TBR shelf and kindle. 1000 unread books requires a level of fortitude that I can't even imagine.

>229 Darth-Heather:

Clam is going for the Guinness world record.

>229 Darth-Heather: & >230 suitable1: My library and my TBR pile are practically tiny compared to many folks on here.

>229 Darth-Heather: >230 suitable1: >231 clamairy:

I have quoted Umberto Eco a number of times on LT but I feel the need to once again refer to his statements that the value of a library is in the unread material. Clam, I regard you as wealthy with your treasure trove of unread books.

>232 pgmcc: As do I. I feel no guilt, and the only pressure I am under is due to my fear of running out of time before my brain and/or eyeballs can no longer manage to get through what I've stockpiled.
:o)

>224 clamairy: If unsure about purchasing, perhaps check your library system? Our library has a copy available.

>232 pgmcc: The Eco quote you are referring to is a great one.

>234 ScoLgo: It is my favourite. He compares a library to a mine in which the unmined resource is the value in the mine. I miss him.

>234 ScoLgo: It is my favourite. He compares a library to a mine in which the unmined resource is the value in the mine. I miss him.

>234 ScoLgo: Excellent idea.

>227 pgmcc: Oh I love Good Omens! Its the book that turned me on to all things Gaiman and Pratchett. I probably reread it every couple of years.

I loved Neverwhere, Coraline, American Gods, and the non fiction View from the Cheap Seats. He's not everyone's cup of tea but if the book is cheap, what do you have to lose?

Hey, I'm resurrecting this thread because Bookmarque has been talking about The Drowned World and I don't see it mentioned here.

ha! You beat me to it, woman.

In celebration, I will move Station Eleven up my TBR list. I snagged a British copy a while back and it's a lovely object in itself. People say the story is excellent, too.

I also have a Doris Lessing on the pile as well - Mara and Dann

>240 Bookmarque: Please show us that cover, when you get the chance. Sorry if I jumped the gun, but I was afraid if I waited I would forget about it.

Not sure which you want to see, so here's both -

>242 Bookmarque: Yes, it the Station Eleven I wanted to see because you said it was a lovely object. That is indeed a lovely and rather usual cover.