Why I voted "no"? (Tag separation/combination) #12

NINE people think brain cancer and breast cancer are the same thing.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Breast+cancer+patients+--+Fiction#combina...

Regarding Edward III from the previous thread, the tag "Edward III" already has "Edward III of England" and "Edward III (1327 - 1377)" and "Edward III Plantagenet". I would separate them out, but I'd rather combine the other Edward III tags into it instead.

Children--Conduct of Life--Juvenile Fiction and Children-Conduct of life-Juvenile literature are Library of Congress Subject Headings with different meanings. The former is for fiction and the latter is for works that aren't fiction, drama or poetry.

Series: Gap Cycle and series:gap saga have been proposed for combination with Gap Series even though the latter (unlike the first two) have two books in a different Gap series by a different author that haven't been tagged as sagas or cycles (voting here).

The Flower Shop Mystery Series and Flower Shop Mysteries series are used on different flower shop mystery series books by different authors (voting here).

book series: percy jackson is up for combo with series-percy jackson even though the series has two movies out, though admittedly not yet tagged in the latter (voting here). I similarly voted against Percy Jackson and the Olympians #1 with Book One Percy Jackson and the Olympians (voting here).

Critias can refer to the dialogue by Plato where the reference to the person in the title is apparently a matter of dispute, so not necessarily Critias 460B-403BC (voting here).

genre fiction is up for combination with fiction. genre which is maybe used to tag a book the owner deemed genre fiction, or maybe just indicating one "genre" of the book is fiction (genre fiction is something specific, not just any or all fiction), but in any case, fiction. genre has also been proposed for combination with Genre -Fiction and - GENRE: Fiction, which are both being used to indicate that the books are fiction, but not necessarily genre fiction (lots are children's books) (voting here).

I voted against
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Series%3A+Book+3+of+The+FarseerTrilogy with
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Farseer+2
because 2 ≠ 3 (voting here)

>6 omargosh: And yet, there are seven yes votes...

Those most be "farseers" who know that one day two will indeed equal three.

Maybe a sign of these post-truth times we live in?

I voted against combining Victorian Era (1837 -1901)* with Victorian Era because an era is not always tightly defined. 1837-1901 is the years of Victoria's reign, but not necessarily what a particular person might consider the era.

* http://www.librarything.com/tag/Victorian+Era+%281837+-1901%29

https://www.librarything.com/tag/ile+rien+series is up for combination with
https://www.librarything.com/tag/fall+of+the+ile+rien+series
even though others have long ago made these into 2 different series:
https://www.librarything.com/series/Ile-Rien
https://www.librarything.com/series/The+Fall+of+Ile-Rien
with the overlap reflected in the tagging. The "fall of" books seem just to be a subset (voting here).

"Carriere" is used for the artist and the playwright, as well as "careers": http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Carriere#combinations

"Carreras" is used primarily for the tenor: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Carreras#combinations

"Pagano" is an architect: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/pagano#combinations

"Hadas" is also used for Moses Hadas: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/hadas#combinations

"Newbery" may refer to Newbery Medal books as well as Newbery Honor books. They are not the same.

"Newberry", while it may at times be a misspelling of "Newbery", may also refer to the Newberry Library, the Newberry Consort, authors named "Newberry", etc.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Newbery#combinations

Suggestions that only work for some languages

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/ropa#combinations

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Suoni#combinations

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/partitura#combinations

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/nani#combinations

Well, here they are again: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/fiction#combinations

(proposals to combine "fiction" with "skönlitteratur" and "Belletristik")

>15 lilithcat: Okay, we have the disambiguation area now, can we fill it in to slow these down?

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Alaskan+Heat+series references the Alaskan Heat series by Jennifer LaBrecque
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Alaska+Heat+series references the Alaska Heat series by Stephanie Rowe
Not the same (voting here)

>17 omargosh: It's good to remember that the notice will stay when the suggestion is history. It is important to mention the two things that shouldn't be combined and to put it on both tags.

James M. Buchanan (diplomat) (1803–1876), American jurist and diplomat
James M. Buchanan (1919–2013), American economist, Nobel prize winner

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/James+M.+Buchanan#combinations

Six people think that speech disorders are sleep disorders?

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Speech+disorders--Fiction#combinations

>20 MarthaJeanne:

Well, if you talk in your sleep . . .

The Hunger Games is not just a book series; it's also a film series.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Hunger+Games+Series+%28book+3%29#comb...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Hunger+Games+Series+%28book+2%29#comb...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Hunger+Games+trilogy+%3B+bk.+2#combin...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Hunger+Games+Series+%28book+1%29#comb...

Same for Divergent:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Divergent+Series+%28book+3%29#combina...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/divergent+series+book+3#combinations
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Divergent+series+-+bk+3#combinations
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Divergent+-+Book+3#combinations
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Divergent+Series+%28book+2%29#combina...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Divergent+Series+Book+2#combinations
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The+Divergent+Series+%28book+1%29#combina...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Divergent+Series+Book+1

>22 lilithcat: Note that all 17 uses of http://www.librarything.com/tag/Hunger+Games+2 are on the book, as are all 8 uses of http://www.librarything.com/tag/Hunger+Games+3. Usage is synonymous on LT.

Don't know what you mean by "usage is synonymous".

In any case, these tags do not have the same meaning. One means the book only; the other may mean book or film (or tv series as the case may be).

Theoretically, they could mean different things, but in practice people use them for books and tag movies differently. I checked.

Since, the majority of voters on tag combinations seem overly cautious to me, I have to ask how and when did the complete mess up with the 'culture' tag happen? It has all sorts of things combined in it, from dozens of 'early review' tags, to Swedish history, Catalan literature, Brazilian literature etc. A hundred have been proposed for separation, but that's probably not all.

>25 SandraArdnas: Before we had voting.

American is not the same as USA

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/American+Foreign+Policy#combinations

>24 lilithcat: I mean that they are used the exact same way, and we don't gain anything on LT by imagining that one day there could be a television series, and that someone might catalogue a specific episode of it with this tag.

>25 SandraArdnas: It also looks as if blank combinations end up at http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/culture#combinations. And some people even voted for those suggestions.

YIKES. How are blank tags even possible?

norabelle414 (#30):

YIKES. How are blank tags even possible?

Blank tags aren't possible AFAIK, but blanks in tag combination proposals are a well-known bug for combination where one of the tags starts with a quotation mark.

>31 lorax: Right but that does not explain why it says 20,190 users are using a blank tag 206,267 times.

>28 Stevil2001:

I’m not imagining anything. Both Divergent and The Hunger Games already have films/TV series.

I prefer to keep these separate now rather than combine them and have to separate them later.

Yeah, the culture tag has not been completely separated out. I started working on it, but I didn't get through all of the badly combined tags. It really is a mess.

I'm going to create a bug report about the blank tags.

ETA: http://www.librarything.com/topic/298266

>34 mmseiple: Me too. Waiting for the separated ones to clear in a week or so to see what's left.

Methods in Molecular Biology is the title of a series, and probably shouldn't be combined with molecular biology - methods. (Combination page)

>37 Edward:

Good catch, thanks!

I voted "no" because Trump is a #$%&* ... wait, am I in the wrong thread? Hehe. US folk: go out and vote today!

Food and water, while both necessary to life, are not the same:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Water+supply--Fiction#combinations

Literatura Español doesn't agree in gender, i.e. "español" isn't modifying "literatura" (that would be "española"), i.e. "español" here is a noun, i.e. it's likely referring to the language of the books, not the country. That would explain why there are authors represented on that page like Edith Wharton, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe, Herman Melville, etc. So I voted against its combination with Spanish literature (voting here).

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Christopher+Columbus

Can't vote to combine the specific with the general on this tag. There's a prominent film director of the same name.

List of possible other people

"The Merchant Princes" is used for a particular series. "Merchant Princes" is used both for that series and unrelated works.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Merchant+Princes#combinations

>42 gilroy: I can't imagine anyone using Christopher Columbus as a tag and not meaning the mariner. The director seems to be popularly known as Chris anyway.

>44 jjwilson61: Lack of imagination not withstanding, there's a reason I included a link to possible other people with that name. Also, consider that people cataloging movies tend to put the actor, director, and crew in as tags, so yes, there is a reason for the director to be a tag.

>45 gilroy: But buy that logic Christopher Columbus shouldn't be combined with anything, except misspellings of the English version of the name. Different language variations are really no different. Cristobal Colon shouldn't be combined in then for the same reason, and the same goes for *many* other variants.

>46 SandraArdnas:

Cristobal Colon shouldn't be combined in then for the same reason,

That's correct. If any are currently combined, then there should be separation proposals.

>43 lilithcat: Agreed. What killed all those for me was the books by other authors in the Merchant Princes tag - those look like non-fiction works to me. Now if the suggestions related to combining the other 3 tags involved, I'd happily vote for that as all usages there relate to works in the The Merchant Princes series by Charles Stross.

>47 lilithcat: I disagree. Combining is a matter of usefulness and I don't see how separating the two is more useful than the current situation. Namely, Christopher Columbus tag in and of itself is a mixed bag, containing almost exclusively references to the explorer, with an odd sprinkling of other possible references. Until such time that an algorithm, which was discussed not too long ago, is implemented to separate different references of the same tag, references to director Christopher Columbus will be buried in a sea of references to the explorer one way or the other. To me, this means it is more useful to at least aggregate all references to the explorer together for the purpose of site-wide searches

Books are not the only things "made into movie(s)". So are plays, short stories published in magazines, etc.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/made+into+movie#combinations

>50 lilithcat: There were over a dozen variations of "book into movie" combined with "made into movie", so I have proposed separating them. (though I think I missed a few)

Why would this distinction be important for the purpose of combining the tags? All of those are literary works made into a movie and I'm pretty sure they were eventually published in book form if they were made into a movie, even if they originally appeared only in a magazine. Ditto for plays. Any even remotely significant play is available in book form. Book is a medium, not a genre or type of literature.

I take it you do not see the benefit of grouping works put to screen together, whether when merely looking at a tag page or doing tag mashes

>52 SandraArdnas:

Because a book is not the same thing as a non-book.

But they are a book, it's just not explicitly stated. What are they? They are not bananas

>54 SandraArdnas: Graphic Novel, Essay, Short Story...those are all not-a-book.

"#583" is pretty clearly not the same as "583 pp", as the former is used for a film, and last time I looked films didn't have pages.

>55 lesmel: Seriously, how are those not books? Just because they aren't novels, it doesn't make them not-a-book. This is a book cataloging site. Made into a movie means a book made into a movie, any one of the book forms. But I give up with this, both with regard what constitutes a book and meaningful distinctions when it comes to tag combining

>57 SandraArdnas:

Made into a movie means a book made into a movie

No, it doesn't. There are a slew of movies adapted from plays, particularly musicals, that were never books. Think West Side Story, Rent, Carousel, etc., etc.. There are films like Spotlight, which was pretty much based on a series of newspaper articles that weren't put into book form.

>58 lilithcat: And movies based on video games are big lately.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/BCCI#combinations

BCCI has various meanings. For example on http://www.librarything.com/work/2292410 it probably refers to Board of Control for Cricket in India.

Another set of books where from which there is also a TV series: the No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/10th+No+1+Ladies%27+Detective+agency+book...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/12th+No+1+Ladies%27+Detective+agency+book...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/No.+1+Ladies+Detective+Agency+book+12#com...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/13th+No+1+Ladies%27+Detective+Agency+book...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/14th+No+1+Ladies%27+Detective+agency+book...

ETA two more that were in a different voting category:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/BOOK+1+LADIES+DETECTIVE+AGENCY+SERIES#com...
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%231+Ladies+Detective+Agency+Book+2#combi...

Women OF a country does not include all the women IN a country. Also, women OF a country sometimes leave said country.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Women+of+India#combinations

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/John+Keats#combinations

The John Keats author page has two different authors on it.

There is a proposal to combine "Дружба" (Russian "friendship") with "amistad" (Spanish "friendship"). HOWEVER! "amistad", while used in some instances for that meaning, is primarily used to refer to the slave ship, Amistad, the rebellion and trial: https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/amistad

I note that there are currently no books tagged "Дружба".

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/amistad#combinations

>64 lilithcat: Do you want to put a disambiguation notice there?

>65 MarthaJeanne:

Good idea. Done.

I've voted against combining badly written and bad writing, because the latter is often used for books about bad writing rather than books that the user considers badly written (combination).

A "scandal" is not the same thing as a "crisis", nor is "looting": http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/savings+and+loan+crisis#combinations

>68 lilithcat: The term S&L scandal and S&L crisis are used interchangeably for the same late 1980s event. Google S&L scandal and you will get results for S&L crisis. One person calling it looting is their own distinct euphemism, again for the same event.

>69 LamontCranston:

used interchangeably for the same late 1980s event.

So what? "The War of Northern Aggression" and "Civil War - U.S." are also the same event, but there's no way I'd ever say those terms mean the same thing and should be combined. There is a difference between objectivity ("crisis") and subjectivity ("scandal" "looting").

It fails the cocktail party test.

>70 lilithcat: I would not call those the same thing, the former is the way a Neo-Confederate would chose to characterise it to paint the South as a victim.

That is not the case with Scandal/Crisis.

Googling S&L Scandal brings you the same results as googling S&L Crisis. Googling War of Northern Aggression will bring you results quite distinct from The American Civil War.

The debate turns on an asinine distinction of whether Scandal/Crisis mean the same thing of varying degrees of severity vs trying to make them mean distinctly different things.

I would not want to attend a cocktail party where such a debate was going on.

They are being used here and side by side on the same books to refer to the same specific event, do you deny that?, and there is no chance of it referring to anything else.

I don't think separating Scandal/Crisis follows the cocktail party. But I think "looting" is a step too far.

Yeah, claiming this fails the cocktail party test is the exact opposite of what the cocktail party test means. In casual conversation between nonspecialists, would someone consider the terms equivalent? Yes.

The voting result is that collapse is the same as crisis (separation vote failed); and but looting & scandal are not the same as crisis (combination failed). So for this, lumpers and splitters are roughly even.

The tag "Pandora Box" refers to a series by that name. It is not a typo for "Pandora's box".

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Pandora+Box#combinations

There are at least three authors on LT named William Petty

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/William+Petty#combinations

There have been several people with the title Lord Rosebery. Even two named Archibald Primrose.
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Lord+Rosebery#combinations

Many books tagged dogme are about religious dogma (French dogme) rather than Dogme (film movement). (Combination link)

>77 Edward: It can also be a foreign language teaching method, and this usage is also on that page.

Coree can have various meanings. It is the French word for Korea, but an Australian book has the tag, too.
http://www.librarything.com/work/6488600/book/37602890

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/coree#combinations

Looking for input on this combination: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Theodore+Roosevelt+-+1858-1919#combinatio...

As it stands, many similar tags have already been combined into "Theodore Roosevelt". I am somewhat on the fence; TR the president had a son who was also Theodore Roosevelt. Might it be best to have separate tags for just the names "Theodore Roosevelt" and for President Roosevelt (or Theodore Roosevelt Sr.) and Theodore Roosevelt Jr.? If so, please vote no, and I'll do some tag separating.

Personally, I have no qualms about combining those. The name is synonymous with the President and in unlikely instances of referring to some other Theodore Roosevelt, I'd expect people would add something along the lines of Jr or whatever distinguishes them

>80 Marissa_Doyle: Separate them

>82 gilroy: Agreed.

>81 SandraArdnas: Theodore Roosevelt Jr. was a public figure in his own right, which is why I have this concern.

>83 Marissa_Doyle: Sure, but nowhere near the public figure that the President was. If you were to ask a random person who Theodore Roosevelt was do you think that anyone would describe Jr. and not even mention Sr.? And if a random person tagged a book just Theodore Roosevelt, do you really think they are referring to Jr.?

The nos are ahead. The bad combinations are probably left over from before we had voting.

Wikipedia lists 6 Theodore Roosevelts, two of whom are still alive. And lots of ships, schools, ... named after them. Someone associated with one of the living ones or a school might well use a tag, meaningful for them that does not differentiate.

>84 jjwilson61: I believe you were responding to >83 Marissa_Doyle: . I argued literally the same as you

>86 SandraArdnas: Yes, you're right. I fixed it.

My understanding is that in Spanish, idioma means language rather than idiom. (Proposed combination)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Bar+mitzvah+--+Fiction#combinations

A bar mitzvah is specifically the boy's coming of age ceremony.
A bat mitzvah is the girl's coming of age ceremony.

This is not a misspelling that should be combined. It is two different things.

>89 gilroy:

I've added a disambiguation notice on the tag combination page (something I really should do more often, but I keep forgetting about that possibility).

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/San+Paolo#combinations

San Paolo can be St Paul, any of several churches, a town in Lombardy...
Paolo (san) can only be the saint.

In the case of combining "(character) #15 book" with "(character) #15": There's at least one Lucas Davenport movie based on the book series, with more to come (movies or TV show, I'm not sure which).

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Lucas+Davenport+Book+15#combinations

"American presidents" can apply to presidents from many countries on two continents. The US is only one of those countries.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/American+Presidents#combinations

>93 karenb: Sigh. Not only is this not actually used for people besides the President of the United States of America, the tag American Presidents already has a bunch of tags, both English and other, that specify the United States of America.

>93 karenb: >94 prosfilaes: I've started putting in separations for the wrong combinations, but I've got to get ready for work and don't have time to enter all of them right now.

>94 prosfilaes: Yes, I know that it's a long-running debate, between how people use the tags versus what the tags could apply to. However, I am very tired of "American" being used to indicate only the US. We're Americans, yes, but we are not alone in that category.

>95 gilroy: Thanks for starting that work.

In the political context, it's never anything other that the US. When it's something geographical or cultural, it can refer to continents. Politically - no. Could people please look at the tags in their entirety? Asks yourself have you ever, would you ever and has anyone ever referred to Canadian, Latin or Central American presidents as American presidents?

>97 SandraArdnas: the answer to your question is thus:
Recently? No, because they want to distance themselves from present political strife.
In the past? All the fricking time.

Give me please one example of a president other than the US where anyone used it. American president Hugo Chavez or something like that ... I've never heard it and I doubt I ever will because in politics you refer to political entities and the only country that includes America in its name is the US.

Sorry, I'll be voting against those separations.

>99 SandraArdnas: No point in giving an example, because you already have your mind made up and don't care what others say.

Tag separators are driven by the most weirdly literal interpretations of phrases.

>100 gilroy: If you gave me a single example of a President other than the US one referred to as American president, I would certainly reconsider. So go ahead

>101 Stevil2001: I believe they aren't considering phrases at all. There is an underlying conviction that since American and US are not interchangeable on their own, this is valid in any context/phrase

This isn't the place for fighting your pet peeves. Tag Combinations should be about how people use words, not how they ought to use them.

So neither the combinations nor the separations will go through.

>101 Stevil2001: The same could be said of tag lumpers

>106 gilroy: Yes, you could say that tag lumpers are "are driven by the most weirdly literal interpretations of phrases." I don't know why you would say that, because it would be silly. Tag lumpers tend to be driven by the most straightforward and obvious meaning of tags.

>105 MarthaJeanne: I do find it vaguely amusing that the tag combination thresholds and balance of voters is such that this consistently happens. Proposals to combine tag A and tag B1 fail, but so do proposals to separate tag A and tag B2. Clearly a shift is needed in some direction.

For something perhaps less controversial, aren't there two Peloponnesian Wars? 479-431 BC and 431-404 BC. It is best to leave the tags that specify years separate from the general phrase "Peloponnesian War".

https://www.librarything.com/tag/479-431+B.C.+%7C+Greece+--+History+--+Peloponne...

(Wikipedia has two relevant entries, one for each period: First Peloponnesian War and Peloponnesian War.)

Yes. Also, looking at the other tags on The Athenians and Their Empire, I strongly suspect the tag 479-431 B.C. | Greece -- History -- Peloponnesian War is formed from parts of two LC subject headings, with the full tag string beginning:

Greece -- History -- Athenian supremacy, 479-431 B.C. | Greece -- History -- Peloponnesian War ...

If this is right, it's all the more reason not to combine it with a tag that's specific to either Peloponnesian War on its own.

We've been through this before.

Neither the authors Winston Churchill and Winston S. Churchill nor the tags should be combined. http://www.librarything.com/tag/Winston+Churchill

(From the author page disambiguation: "Winston Churchill" is actually several authors: the British statesman (1874-1965) an American novelist (1871-1947). The two met in 1901 and the British Winston agreed to sign his books "Winston S. Churchill" to avoid confusion. Do not combine this page with that of Winston S. Churchill!)

The Wikipedia interlanguage links suggest that "POLITICAS PUBLICAS" is a Spanish equivalent to English "public policy", not to "Public Politics" (which I don't think is a common English phrase at all).

(Combination proposal)

>112 Edward: That said, the "public politics"'s tag's sole use seems to be in a way synonymous with "politicas publicas"; it's on a Spanish-language book with "politicas publicas" in the title.

The internet knows several organizations that use PODER as their acronym. It also does not seem to be a simple one to one translation from Spanish to English. Power may be the basic meaning of the noun, but the verb means to be able to.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/poder#combinations

Patrick Rothfuss's Kingkiller Chronicles books are being adapted for television.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/BOOK+ONE+KINGKILLER+CHRONICLES#combinati...
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/BOOK+2+Kingkiller+chronicles#combination...

The tag books adventure is only used for Inkheart, which seems to be a "books adventure" as in an adventure story about books. I've voted against combining with adventure books, which is used for books about adventure. (Combination proposal)

County York is a specific location in Ireland
York County could refer to Pennsylvania, Ontario, New Brunswick, Virginia, and one or two other places I can't remember.

These are NOT the same.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/County+York#combinations

>117 gilroy: I've copied that into the warnings space.

>117 gilroy: County York is a specific location in Ireland

Really? You're not mixing it up with County Cork, are you?

>119 Cynfelyn: Possible, but definitely not the same as York County. At least not by "What book does it hold" standards of most lumpers.

In fact, in this case, it appears that "County York" refers to North Yorkshire in England, where Castle Howard is located.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Austrlian+women+writers#combinations

This is obviously a misspelling, but is it Australian without an 'a' or Austrian with an extra 'l'?

>122 MarthaJeanne:

In this particular case, it's "Australian" without an 'a'. (The only book that has that tag is by an Australian woman.)

Czechoslovakian Writers is only likely to mean writers from the former nation that split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, while Czech Writers could mean writers from the Czech Republic, ethnically Czech writers or writers using the Czech language. (Combination proposal)

>124 Edward: And would include Slovakians.

>124 Edward:

You might want to put that in the disambiguation field on the combination page.

>126 lilithcat: Thanks, I've added disambiguation notes.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Dundas+County#combinations

There is a Dundas County in Victoria as well as in Ontario.

There are lots of places named "Ontario" that are not in Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_(disambiguation)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Ontario+%28Canada%29--Fiction#combination...

Same for Toronto; there are Torontos not in Ontario: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_(disambiguation)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Toronto+%28Ont.%29+-+Geography
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Toronto+%28Ont.%29+-+Church+history

>129 lilithcat: Yet if you search Wikipedia for "Ontario" it will take you to the article on the Canadian province and not the disambiguation page. This indicates to me that if someone wants to tag with a different Ontario they're not likely to just use "Ontario". The same goes, even more strongly, for Toronto.

ETA: I also object to the use of the disambiguation notice on the tag page to make the splitter point of view seem more authoritative than it is.

Québec can refer to a Canadian province or a city in that province.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/québec+%28québec%29#combinations

>131 MarthaJeanne: Does this mean "québec (québec)" could only refer to the city? (Cf. "New York, New York".)

New Brunswick can mean the province of Canada or the city in New Jersey.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Fiction+-+New+Brunswick#combinations

I've voted against combining Evidence-based Medicine-handbooks and Evidence-based methods – handbooks because "medicine" and "methods" are not the same. (Proposal)

>134 Edward:

And yet half the people voting think they are! Astonishing.

I added a disambiguation notice.

>134 Edward: >135 lilithcat: Good catch! I know I missed it.

The tags original (film) and Original Film are being used with practically opposite meanings. As far as I can tell, the former is used for books adapted into films, while the latter is used for films that are not adaptations. (Combination proposal)

>133 karenb: For those of us who think tag usage is a factor, every book tagged "Fiction - New Brunswick" seems to take place in Canada.

There is some hope. Although someone suggested (twice) that we combine Asian Americans with chick lit, nobody has voted yes. http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Asian+Americans#combinations

This was a new member, and I have given her a link to the tag mash.

>139 MarthaJeanne: Yes, the tag mash was what she wanted, and she has thanked me for pointing her to it.

Bletchley (England : Buckinghamshire) is the town that contains the Bletchley Park (Buckinghamshire England) estate. (Combination proposal)

Not all "marine disasters" occur at sea: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/sea+disasters#combinations

Some occur on lakes, such as The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, and others on rivers, like The Sinking of the Eastland.

>142 lilithcat: The dictionaries I've checked define the adjective "marine" as meaning "relating to the sea". Neither of the books you mention is tagged "marine disasters" as far as I can see. I've voted Yes to the proposed combination.

>142 lilithcat: Disagree, the definition of "marine" is "of the sea", not "of the water".

NOAA calls the Great Lakes weather forecasts “marine” forecasts.

Then there’s the Great Lakes Marine Hall of Fame.

The Canadian Encyclopedia includes freshwater lake disasters under “marine disasters”

>145 lilithcat: Okay, that's persuasive evidence. Changing my vote.

According to LT series data, Chronicles of Chaos is a series by John C. Wright, while The Chaos Chronicles is a series by Jeffrey A. Carver. I've voted against the proposal to combine the tags s: Chronicles of Chaos and Series: The Chaos Chronicles.

I've also proposed separating two "chronicles of chaos" tags from Series: The Chaos Chronicles.

(All three proposals here)

>147 Edward: I added the series information to the disambiguation notice on the tag page.

In case the person in question follows this thread, I have to ask: What is the reasoning behind voting against proposals like Tractors-Fiction and Tractors--Fiction, Detroit - Michigan and Detroit (Michigan) or Mummies-Juvenile Fiction and Mummies -- Juvenile fiction? There are hundreds of such votes lately.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Mummies-Juvenile+Fiction#combinations
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Detroit+-+Michigan#combinations
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Tractors-Fiction#combinations

>149 SandraArdnas: I suspect, even if they do read this thread, that they won't answer your question.

>149 SandraArdnas:

I have no idea why they do it, but some people will vote against combining tags unless they are written exactly the same way. I think it's weird.

Either than, or someone's just being ornery.

While I don't know if this is anyone's reason, I can imagine wanting to differentiate between a category "Tractors--Fiction" noted on the rights page and the keywords "Tractors-Fiction".

Although, voting for that combination benefits LT overall. The tags wouldn't be combined within libraries wanting to mark a distinction. Maybe the members using the tags to be combined aren't aware of that.

>152 aspirit: Could you elaborate? What do you mean by 'category on the rights page'?

"Solar Plexus" (with the quotes) refers to a specific short story within the Isaac Azimov anthology that's tagged.
solar plexus (no quotes) is more dealing with the body part and chakra healing.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/solar+plexus#combinations

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/July+2018#combinations

There are several suggestions for combining July 2018 with Jul 2018, but Jul can mean Christmas in several Scandanavian languages.

>153 SandraArdnas:

I don't know what's the standard terminology.

Rights page: the page in the book that shows the copyright, publisher, and publication history

Category: The Library of Congress classification

When I catalogued my personal library using database software I had at the time, I'd entered the classification as tags. I don't do that anymore. Someone else might.

>156 aspirit: Yes, those are usually LC subject headings that people enter as tags. That's why I don't see the difference since the only difference is whether people use -, --, > or something else in between.

"St. John's College" and "St. John College" are not the same place: http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/St.+John%27s+College#combinations This has been noted earlier in the disambiguation notice, but not here.

"Cherry Ames" should not be combined with "cherry aims". The latter is from a parody of the former.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Cherry+Ames#combinations

>159 lilithcat: Love that title. Nancy Clue and the Hardly Boys in a Ghost in the Closet

Corso has various meanings in different languages.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Corso#combinations

>161 MarthaJeanne:

Not to mention the books with that tag by the poet Gregory Corso.

The tag "Paul (Elliot)" refers to Elliot Paul. The tag "Paul Elliot" seems to refer to someone named Paul Elliot, given that the user's other tags use "firstname surname" order. (Combination proposal)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/skönlitteratur#combinations

We've discussed this one several times before. There is even a disambiguation.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/savings+and+loan+crisis#combinations

Didn't we vote down Savings and Loan crisis connected to Savings and Loan Scandal already recently?

>165 gilroy: Yes.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/mystery,+non-fiction is proof that mystery and mystery fiction should not be combined. http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/mystery#combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/queer+as+folk#combinations

Not all the items tagged under "queer as folk" are about the US/Showtime series; the scriptbook from the UK/Channel 4 series is in there. (I would support a combination proposal for the US and Showtime tags, however.)

>168 Stevil2001:

I've added to the disambiguation notice to explain that.

>168 Stevil2001: >169 lilithcat: ...and now I understand how these particular sets of proposals occur! (Where two could be combined but instead are proposed with a third tag that's not such a good match.)

Thanks, proposing the US/Showtime one now.

Envie is a word in various languages, and it means different things in different languages.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/envie#combinations

>171 MarthaJeanne: Thanks. (I should've checked further before proposing the combo.)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/male+grief#combinations

Not all males are men. Little boys can grieve, too.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Roman#combinations

This is already the same tag.

Another "skönlitteratur/fiction" proposal:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/engelsk+sk%C3%B6nlitteratur#combinations

>175 lilithcat: I think this person has recommended it before.
Can we fill in the Disambig notice as to why we keep voting it down?

skönlitteratur has a nice one. http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/skönlitteratur#combinations

but there are so many like this one - English, USA, Japanese...

>177 MarthaJeanne: I'm willing to steal it for now. :)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Princess%3B+Victoria

The only book here is about Princess Peggy Abkhazi who finished her life in Victoria, Canada.

>179 MarthaJeanne:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Princess%3B+Victoria#combinations

I think that drama geeks is being used to mean "people who are geeky about drama", while Geeks -- Drama means "drama about geeks". (Combination proposal)

Petroleum industry and trade - political aspects (with no place specified) should not be combined with United States Petroleum industry and trade - Political aspects. (Combination proposal)

>182 Edward: Sorry about that, it was a boneheaded copy-and-paste error. (There's another, more accurate proposal for the US-based tag: combination proposal).

>183 karenb: No need to apologise! I've made similar mistakes myself before.

I've voted for the good proposals.

"Camera Obscura" is used only in reference to a review column in the periodical "Wormword". camera obscura is used for the optical phenomenon.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/camera+obscura#combinations

Many of the uses of the tag 'labour' refer to the British political party, and not to work.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/labour#combinations

>186 MarthaJeanne:

If not most!

This is another one that I am pretty sure we've been through before.

I'm sure we have. Otherwise labour and labor would be combined. Although that could also be a problem if German speakers tagged 'labor' meaning laboratory.

I'd be almost surprised if nobody uses "Labor" to mean the Australian Labor Party.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Australian,+labor

Looks like they do.

(Thank you all for your patience with my newbie efforts, and explanations.)

It would really help if you looked at both tag pages before making the suggestion. Also googling words that might mean something in more than one language, or might be an abbreviation. Wiktionary is very good because it lists several languages on the same page. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/labor
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/roman are good examples.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/buskarte#combinations

While Karte can mean map (or card, or ticket...), Buskarte is bus ticket.

Steele Series and The Steele Series are currently used for different series, with no overlap in usage. (Combination proposal)

Cheaper by the dozen (sequel) is used for a film, so it doesn't seem helpful to combine it with cheaper by the dozen: book 2. (Combination proposal)

>195 Edward: Thanks for the catch; no idea how I missed that.

Have voted no on all three proposals, since the other three tags apply to the book.

Have proposed combining the book tags to each other, instead.

Places called Half Moon Bay can be found in California, Tasmania, Toronto, Auckland, Saudi Arabia...

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Half+Moon+Bay+fiction#combinations

-------
http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Sino-Amerikaner#combinations

Not only are asian and Chinese not the same thing, but neither tag is being used.

There is a proposal to combine "vintiquebooks" with "vintique books", which seems reasonable at first blush, but isn't when you delve further.

The only member to use those tags is VintiqueBooks, and that member uses those tags, as well as other variations on the name, on the same books, which clearly indicates that a distinction of some sort is being made.

As no one else uses those tags, I'd leave this member's choice alone.

I don't think there is any distinction between tags. Over 99% of the books with the "vintiquebooks" tag have the "vintique books" tag and the other two associated tags. The member is a bookstore, so in my imagination they want to advertise and assume using very similar tags thousands of times is a way to do this. However the majority of ratings that they have put in (less than a thousand of their books) are 2s and 3s, which I find surprising.

>199 vpfluke:

That's my point. Why give the same book both (or multiple) tags if they don't have different meanings to the member?

>200 lilithcat: Since it's a bookstore, catalog searches could be used by any number of employees so maybe they are just trying to make sure that the tag is found no matter what spelling people use.

What's the effect?

On the really popular books it doesn't matter.

On medium books like http://www.librarything.com/work/16104856 these tags don't currently show, but the combined tag will if they are combined.

On the least popular books only one tag will show instead of several http://www.librarything.com/work/22532995/book/168561471

It looks as though Intermezzo A Love Story refers to the 1939 film directed by Gregory Ratoff (IMDb), while Intermezzo (A Love Story) (Henning/Provost) refers to the music by Robert Henning and Heinz Provost (WorldCat). (Combination proposal)

"Beyond Repair" (with quotation marks) is the title of a short story appearing in "Weird Science". Beyond repair (no quotation marks) seems to be referring to the condition of books.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%22Beyond+Repair%22#combinations

Chicago 7 is used for many books unrelated to the Chicago Seven. Possibly it refers to the location of the books. (Combination proposal)

I've voted against the following proposals (proposal page):

• Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago and Oriental Institute Museum. University of Chicago - Chicago
• Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago and University of Chicago. Oriental Institute. Museum

The Oriental Institute website shows that the Museum is only one part of the Institute (e.g., "The Oriental Institute Museum and Department of Public Education and Outreach, are major units of the Oriental Institute").

>206 Edward:

Agreed.

But for some reason, people are also voting against combining Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago and Oriental Institute--University of Chicago. Those should be combined.

"Newfoundland" can refer to various towns in the U.S., ships, animals, etc. as well as to a place in Canada.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Newfoundland#combinations

And "Quebec" can refer to about a zillion things other than the Canadian province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_(disambiguation)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Qu%C3%A9bec+%28Canada%29#combinations

Time for a new thread.