Hobbit LE

FS put a post up in Dwarven runes regarding an announcement. Roughly translates The Hobbit Limited Edition. Illustrated by Alan Lee. Limited to One Thousand copies coming this year.

I guess that hints that the Silmarillion will also eventually get new LE treatment so they're all in matching burgundy spines in the same vein as the previous black and gold LE set.

I am not interested in Limited Editions so every time there’s an announcement related to them it’s disappointing for me. :(

The recent LOTR LE was my favorite-looking edition yet, so I'm sure someone will be quite happy with a matching set. Hopefully, they'll do an SE of it at some point as I've always been underwhelmed by the existing set that's been in-print the last twenty plus years.

>4 HonorWulf: That set is very very overdue for a refresh. Folio's set is very obsolete and it doesn't matter that it's illustrated by a former Queen.

I couldn't justify spending 1000 pounds in the LOTR LE, so I really wish they can update the SE.

I love the Hobbit, and personally find it much more exciting than Lord of the Rings -- I know, I'm probably in the minority. Excited about the FS edition, but ultimately will wait and see what the price is vs what you get. I know it won't be letterpress, but I'm still praying that Lyra will at some point get the rights to do a letterpress edition... sigh, one can dream.

I’m very excited for this. I love my LOTR LE, and have been wanting a Hobbit LE to match

>3 Mooch360: That’s like saying you’re disappointed at the existence of all the restaurants you don’t visit.

>9 What_What: More like disappointed at the existence of all expensive restaurants. There's a difference.

I don't know if I'm interested or disappointed any more so let's just meet the meat at the most expensive and impossible restaurant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF35dekiAY

>3 Mooch360: Good news for you, there's a standard release coming shortly after the LE for probably a quarter of the price!

>10 mr.philistine: What constitutes "expensive"? Some people would claim that a regular $75 Folio Society book is "expensive" -- after all, you can find a used paperback or hardback of the same work for $5! Point is, it's relative. When I first got into "high-quality books" I thought I was purchasing the crème de la crème when I was paying $40 for that Easton Press book :)

>12 astropi: If there is a standard release of this upcoming Hobbit LE does that mean that there will also be a standard release of the previous LOTR LE?

>12 astropi: ...after all, you can find a used paperback or hardback of the same work for $5!

Your definition of rock bottom might not be low enough. I suggest ZERO. :)

>12 astropi: I'm assuming that's a joke on recent LEs followed by SEs rather than confirmation it's happening?

There's a pretty good regular hardcover set with the Alan Lee illustrations that has both Hobbit + LOTR for 100 gbp or so. The FS set would no doubt be better but there'd be a question of how much better depending on what price point they'd end up with on a SE set. The current LOTR set is 155 so that'd be very competitive imo, even with a Hobbit sold separately. At a quarter of the LE asking price it'd be more like 250.

Just a quick note for folks looking for alternatives, the versions from HarpersCollins that are illustrated by Tolkien are currently on sale at 20% off. I have the Special Editions of LotR and Silmarillion, the corresponding version of the Hobbit is due later this year.

The Lord of the Rings (Illustrated Edition)
The Hobbit (Illustrated Edition)
The Silmarillion (Illustrated Edition)
The Silmarillion (Special Edition)
The Hobbit (Deluxe Illustrated Edition) (release October 22, 2024)

>16 Shadekeep: I am not familiar with them. How's the quality in comparison with Folio? Similar?

>17 drizzled: I'd put the HarpersCollins editions more into the "quality mass market" bucket, perhaps closer to a standard Easton Press book than a Folio Society one. They are nice enough for the price, and I don't know that anyone else offers a particularly good edition with the Tolkien illustrations at the moment. Happy to be proven wrong, however!

>18 Shadekeep: do the current HarperCollins editions specify acid free paper and have sewn bindings? I know some older editions they put out with Alan Lee's illustrations are sewn but unfortunately are printed on glossy art book type paper rather than a nice matte book paper.

Easton Press at least (for all of their non-rebindings) guarantees acid free paper and sewn bindings (though I am not a fan of their house style except in a few rare cases).

>19 abysswalker: I'm still not having much luck tracking down the physical specs of the HC editions, in terms of paper, binding, etc. Easton Press does do nice work especially their Deluxe editions, so it's not a slam on them. It's possible that the regular Eastons are of better quality than these HC editions, it's hard to know without the hard data. If anyone else finds solid info, please share, and I'll continue looking as well.

>15 A.Godhelm: I was being a bit sarcastic, since as you noted there's no confirmation of a SE of The Hobbit :)

But, all that said, it honestly would not surprise me one bit if the FS released a SE of the limited editions Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit as a set. Of course, they still have their edition illustrated by Eric Fraser from what, 1979 I believe? Really quite nice illustrations. At any rate, my dream as I have said before is for someone (Lyra ideally) to do a letterpress edition... sigh...

>7 astropi: Genuinely interested as I love both.
What excites you most about the Hobbit rather than LOTR?

https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/coming-soon?fbclid=IwY2xjawFcg_dleHRuA2FlbQIxMQA...

19th November then.

Arghhh!
4pm GMT is 2am in Brisbane.

>25 wcarter: don't worry: someone will buy it and list it on eBay at 3x RRP for your convenience.

>25 wcarter: I'll stay up and order it for you Warwick if you buy me one. 🤣

I'm glad that it matches the LOTR LE in design but I was hoping and assuming it would be a different color. Oh well. Can't wait to see the price they're gonna charge.

>27 LesMiserables:
When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires will come to you
If your heart is in your dream, no request is too extreme
When you wish upon a star as dreamers do
Keep dreaming!!

>29 wcarter: God loves a trier! :-)

>24 Kargish: They misspelled 'Tolkein' on the page.
>28 owf_117: LotR was 1000GBP so I expect this to be 500. If it's not that excessive I suspect some who didn't buy the first set might get this, making things hard for completionists. I had thought they'd do a forest green edition for this for some reason, in my mind that makes sense.

The email's out:

4pm, 19th November, x1,000, signed by Alan Lee, all as expected.



https://www.foliosociety.com/coming-soon?om_campaign=omme_eaf14058-3f3_6836_1341...

>31 A.Godhelm: Why would it be 500GBP for one book when the 3 books were a 1000?

>33 Tamachan00:
Folio logic 😂

I would have preferred it to be in a different colour scheme to LOTR.

>35 EdmundRodriguez: Some might prefer the matching continuity. It can be assumed now that if they do the Silmarillion LE it will also be matching colours.

>33 Tamachan00: Lord of the Rings was a 'buy two get one free' offer. But costs have risen since then, so my guess is £600, maybe £650.

And it will be gone in half an hour.

>37 red_guy:
I agree.

>33 Tamachan00: Many costs remain the same or mostly the same whether it’s part of a 3 volume set or one book. Advertising, design, slipcase, fulfillment.

>33 Tamachan00: It's slight hyperbole - I hope. But 1000 for 3 books back then makes 333 a piece (it's not this straight a breakdown in practice of course it gets cheaper the more you make). Prices have gone up several times since then. 400 should not surprise you. 500 is not out of the question.

Assuming it's the same dimensions (12 x 7.75 inches) as LotR, that's about the same physical size as Peloponnesian War (£400) or Origin of Species (£500). Other factors will come into play, of course, but £500 doesn't seem too far-fetched for The Hobbit. Given inflation, it could be more, but I hope not.

Frankly, they could go for a nice round £1k and it will still sell out extremely quickly. Come on Folio, go for it and make that bottom line proud!
In reality, I fully expect at least £500.

It should also be a much thinner volume than any of the LOTR. One thinks that should bring the price down. But given the expected demand that would be wishful thinking.

Yeah, pricing will of course be influenced by the cost of materials and production and licensing. But we should remember that Folio will set prices according to what they think they can sell the book for without alienating their customers. I think £500 is an absolute minimum.

>44 ubiquitousuk: This might be a good time to remind people that there is a Harper Collins set coming out in October featuring the same Alan Lee art including the new pieces that were part of the FS LOTR LE set. People have divided opinions about the quality of their leather and construction, but the set is also a quarter of the price of the LE at 250GBP, and HC often offer substantial discounts (25%/40%).
This Hobbit LE will presumably get the same treatment down the road.

>45 A.Godhelm: Thanks for the info on the Harper Collins set. I didn't think it worth to spend $1,500 USD on the Alan Lee illustrations. But it'd be nice to get them for a fraction of that.

I have the Harper Collins edition with Tolkien's illustrations and they're not bad for the price. They certainly aren't fine press though.

>45 A.Godhelm: I purchased that with one of their 50% off codes. You get the majority of what you get in the Folio Society edition, but at a fraction of the cost.

Where do I get such a code ?

>48 Ragnaroekk: If you go their website and sign up, you’ll get emails. There was a silly spinning wheel thing that gave you a random code at one point. I get the feeling they have sale codes often.

>49 What_What: thank you 😊

>45 A.Godhelm:

HC have 50% discount every couple of months. In practical terms for UK customers, the new HC LotR with the Folio illustrations is £125 assuming you don't mind waiting for the sales (just sign up to their email and they send out notice of 50% flash sales regularly). Minimum sale discount just for being a new customer is always available at 30%. The HC set sits at a very different price-point than the Folio. I have the Folio LotR and it was a bit painful having to return it from NZ to be remanufactured and then get a returned set with most of the same faults on different volumes (and no other options because there were no materials left). Hopefully The Hobbit has better QC out of the gate, because the LoTR is a set with quite a few problems (and I suspect the leather splitting will happen to all copies given enough time).

A very reliable seller who takes condition very seriously just wrote that the HC edition is excellent, but has one minor flaw in that the cloth has some small stray threads where the cloth has been cut for the binding. It sounds like small stuff compared to some issues with the more expensive FS edition, but might be an issue for some people here.

>51 stubedoo:
Leather splitting ? Can you explain that a little more ?

>52 SF-72:
I pre-ordered it and it should arrive until 22 October.
Iam very excited to be honest. 😅
My biggest wish is Conversation Tree Press doing LoTR, but that's very unlikely.

>53 Ragnaroekk:

*Many* of the originally delivered books had small splits to the leather, primarily at the edges of the top blind-stamping. Lots of copies replaced/repaired. I had my set replaced by Folio (with one copy remanufactured by Smith-Settle) and the replacements also had splitting. I basically traded one set of faults for slightly different ones (though the first copy of Fellowship I had was an absolute mess with severe rubbing to the cloth as well).

I suspect over time, especially in very dry environments, the leather will split at those points on more copies. The leather is stamped thinly and there is some kind of construction artifact behind the point where they split. The splits are small and in the stampings, so they aren't super noticeable, so a competent bookbinder can probably just add a tint bit of correct-coloured finish to hide them, assuming they don't propagate outside of the stampings.

New images:

does the sword come with the book

>56 gmacaree: I suspect with the Roman Numeral edition :)

Speaking of swords, Aragorn wields Anduril again! ...and speaks Elvish. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsOuyvwqIIw

>55 Thwack: thanks - where are those from?

Looks like the slipcase has a separate compartment for the map, which I like.

I’m in two minds over this edition. I don’t - and likely never will - have the LOTR LE set and personally prefer a separate colour scheme for the Hobbit.

Also hope the QC is better on this than was reported in the previous set.

>58 mr.philistine: That has a certain ring to it.

>59 cyber_naut: ...where are those from?

https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienbooks/comments/1gjgeua/some_newly_released_image...

>59 cyber_naut: Original article/interview:

https://www.collectiblebookvault.com/post/new-release-limited-edition-of-the-hob...

>56 gmacaree: You're joking but if someone's interested that's the Weta Workshop prop replica of Sting and it's about 250 USD if you can find it. They had a fancier "real" set of swords too, where it would set you back 5500 USD or so.
If we're being extra nerdy this is the "Frodo" version of the sword too, which is arguably wrong, as the "Bilbo" version is sans elvish engraving. Although since the metafictional There and Back Again is presumably written since you're holding The Hobbit in your hand, perhaps he had time to get it engraved.

>61 mr.philistine: >62 HonorWulf: thanks both!

Prices can now be seen on the FS website for the Hobbit when you do a search.

£600 - U.K.
£690 - R.O.W.
$850 - U.S.A.

>65 assemblyman: Per the discussion tangential to the LE Poe over on that topic, I think the Zusak's 22 minute mark is safe at such a sum.

https://www.librarything.com/topic/364778#8659658

>65 assemblyman: Wow. Folio must be getting a healthy margin at that price. I'd expected £500.

>66 FitzJames: Even at those prices I wouldn't be surprised if it did sell out quicker.

>65 assemblyman: That’s quite a bit more than I expected.

I guess they know they can charge whatever they want and it’ll sell out regardless. Ugh…

Sticks in the throat to be honest.

I get there has been inflation since 2022 and that this edition won’t have the efficiencies associated with producing a 3-volume set like LOTR but it feels excessive.

Can only assume FS have determined that many owners of the LOTR LE will pay a premium for a matching set.

Given I’ll likely never own that set, my comparison is whether this is worth the same as 3 x standard editions from the likes of Lyra’s, Conversation Tree or Amaranthine.

Hard to make that add up by any objective measure.

I see the production details are also on the website now too.

All as expected based on LOTR LE, other than the binding which is listed as quarter leather with art silk sides.

The LOTR was cloth sides so I wonder why the change?

ETA: to be fair it seems to be quite lavishly illustrated by Folio standards with 28 tipped-in colour illustrations and ‘numerous black & white line integrated illustrations’.

>71 cyber_naut:
Most of the illustrations are recycled...
690£ is crazy.... LoTR with 3 books was 1000£

I will just wait for the Harper Collins version in a year and accept moderately inferior binding/materials for 1/10 of the price.

It does feel like a rip-off, but of course it will work out for them since lots of people will want to add this to their LotR - and Tolkien sells anyway. The 90 Pounds extra for ROW is also nasty. The actual tax for Germany only amounts to 42 Pounds, and it's not like the exchange rate could lead to issues since we pay in Pounds. I really preferred it when I could just pay the tax on top of the regular UK price. Luckily, this really doesn't concern me in this case. If I needed another Hobbit, I'd wait for the Harper Collins version, too.

>74 SF-72: Re: the 90 GBP extra for ROW, in New Zealand our tax would be 15% or 103.50 GBP. I have to assume the ROW additional is arrived at as a mean of various international taxes.

I'm just glad it's not $1000 as I predicted (it's close, though).

Another reason why I'm glad I decided long ago to never buy an LE. $850 for a single fairly short book, when the entire Christmas release is $1230 if my math is correct (excluding the Folio Diary).

>65 assemblyman: I don't see the prices displayed anywhere. Also, typing 'hobbit' into the search field no longer displays 'Hobbit LE' but the pages are not dead:
https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/the-hobbit-limited-edition.html
https://www.foliosociety.com/row/the-hobbit-limited-edition.html
https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/the-hobbit-limited-edition.html

Since the book is printed and bound by L.E.G.O. in Vicenza, Italy; I wonder if US prices will go up if Trump is sworn in before '4pm (GMT) 19 November, 2024' :)

According to him, "...the most beautiful word in the dictionary is tariff. It's my favorite word. It needs a public relations firm."

>78 mr.philistine: After adding to my Wish List, the ROW price is shown as in >65 assemblyman: at £690.

>79 FitzJames: Thank you.

It seems the price was disclosed prematurely and Folio have realized the error; it’s disappeared from the page.

As I’m feeling a bit salty, I suspect Folio do not disclose prices in advance because that may lead to what Kahneman calls system 2 thinking (in this case ‘do I really want to spend all that money on this edition?’)

Disclosing the price at the same time as release probably contributes to the panic buying and FOMO Folio seems to promote these days.

>81 cyber_naut: Wise old hand folio_books sets himself a price for anything he is interested in and doesn't go over it.

It's a good strategy although I know how peer pressure (enablement?) can work.

>75 FitzJames:

I thought it was something like that. And please don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you if it saves you some money. But quite frankly, when I buy abroad, e. g. in the UK or the US, nobody else pays my tax for me. I don't see why I should when it comes to FS. Just go back to charging the actual tax buyers have to pay instead of adding to the purchase price like this.

>71 cyber_naut: I've seen the LOTR books in videos and I believe it also has art silk sides. Art silk is just a term used to describe the shiny, faux silk type of cloth.

>83 SF-72:

You're quite alright, I do not take what you say ill in any fashion. I was more than willing to pay my own precise tax, though I don't think Folio sees it in terms of one country subsidising another etc.

This is only assumption on my part, but when Folio whittled their website regions down to three blocs (UK, US, ROW), the very act of subsuming Australia into ROW is precisely why one tax-inclusive sum is now charged, the result of Australian legislation (I am a New Zealander with no in-depth knowledge on the subject) that displayed prices must already incorporate the tax (re: ACCC).

The mean 'additive' figure is such because so many countries (how many? I have no idea) have been included in the ROW bloc and since perforce tax must be included per Australia's legislation, it is included for everyone in ROW.

>83 SF-72:
Australia's goods and services tax is 10%, but the ROW surcharge is 15%. Some countries have a GST or VAT tax of 12%, 15% (New Zealand) or up to 27% (Hungary) on all products including books, while others exclude books from any tax.
I guess the FS surcharge covers all swings and roundabouts.

I wonder if they could have charged UK rates, and let everybody pay the actual tax rate of their country, claimed by the postal service upon receipt? More faff, perhaps, but also more fair?

>87 BorisG: You usually get a substantial custom fee on top of the tax with that approach.

>82 Cat_of_Ulthar: Wise old hand folio_books sets himself a price for anything he is interested in and doesn't go over it.
It's a good strategy although I know how peer pressure (enablement?) can work.

Old definitely, though I don't know about the rest. But yes, this is a fair description of what I do, and it has mostly worked for me up till now. These days I find myself seriously questioning the value I am getting for my investment. As a result, my consumption of LEs has declined dramatically this year, partially because of the cost, partially the content - it's not up to the standard of what I might describe as the classic Folio LEs. Sadly, prices of standard Folios have also risen steeply. £50 now gets me an unexceptional bottom-rung edition and prices around £100 are becoming the norm. As many have noted, the quantity of illustrations has declined steadily. So the value, for me, has decreased significantly.

What has kept me going through this year is the number of standard editions of at least typical Folio quality, representing excellent choices. I've bought 18 of those in 2024, and only two LEs. I imagine I'll still be buying Folios this time next year but if prices continue to outstrip inflation, not as many. That's maybe just as well. I have over 1950 Folio titles and my shelves are full!

>87 BorisG:

That's they way they used to do it, and I paid exactly 7% tax on the UK price including shipping then. I'd really prefer going back to that.

>85 FitzJames:

That might be the cause behind this once they included Australia in ROW. Interesting. In Germany, the tax also has to be shown in the price on a website, but our government doesn't put pressure on other countries in that regard. They way it used to work, I saw the price in Pounds, which was the same as for UK buyers, and the tax got added during checkout, clearly shown as such, too.

>89 folio_books: I have over 1950 Folio titles
You certainly earned your nickname. Which gets me to thinking, how complete is the FS archive of their own books? Do they have everything, and how many titles would that be?

$850 for a 200-page offset printed children's book. Hmmm. Would a better sales price be achieved for the matching LOTR set now or by waiting until The Hobbit is released? Asking for a friend...

>93 SDB2012: Ideally, one owner of a Hobbit LE wishes to acquire your friend's matching numbered LOTR LE price no bar! I spy 2 listings on eBay about 10 days old and about 20 watchers each with BIN prices £2666 and £2950. There is also one on Abebooks for £4495!

Since maximum profit is the primary motivation here, I say list with highest expectation (bid or BIN) and 'Make Offer' enabled in case your friend is willing to negotiate. I vote to list sooner than later. Who can predict the unintended consequences of any wonders president-elect Trump might enact after being sworn in? :)

This is a tough one. Lord of the Rings is one of the best trilogies ever written and a set of books I can go back to and reread every few years. The LE was too expensive for what I received but it's a set I'm not sure I can ever part with.

The Hobbit is essentially a children's story which lacks depth and complexity compared with LOTR. I've read it two or three times in my life - it's a fun story, incredibly easy to read, and quite simple. These aren't bad qualities but I'm not sure if I ever plan to ever reread The Hobbit ever again.

The completionist in me wants to buy it, however, $900+ is almost insulting for such a generic production. If it was the other way around and Folio first published The Hobbit and then vastly upcharged LOTR maybe I would bite. But I think I'm sitting this one out.

Also, maybe this is just me, but if Folio is willing to completely hose me on productions like then this I will have no future qualms to return anything Folio related that isn't perfect. I rarely ask for any returns or compensation but if they are will to screw me I will do likewise. Bitter maybe. Quid pro quo.

7 days until release and still no price?

>97 nau2002: Folio typically releases the pricing on the day of release. However, there was a price leak a week ago that suggested that it'll be £600 UK / £690 ROW / $850 USA.

Unboxing of a lettered copy from Part 1 of an interview with Alan Lee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QShEoavcQE&t=29m5s

Part 2 of the interview continued on the FS channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuWjHsqTubk

>97 nau2002: >98 HonorWulf: the price of £600 still shows if you search for the book on the Folio site. It is not displayed on the product page but can still be seen in the website code if you look under the hood.

>98 HonorWulf: Great, thanks. $850 is very steep! The LOTR was $1500 and that was 3 volumes!

Chocks away!

And we're live, four minutes before the hour.

$943 with tax and shipping to Illinois. Still bought it but sheesh…

577 left on the hour, good lord!

Edit: i.e. 423 sold in those four minutes pre-starting orders

577 left in 3 minutes

Website seems to be holding up so far (it struggled during the LOTR LE release).

187 left at 5 past the hour

4.09pm, 51 left, now 23 left

4.11pm, the counter has disappeared.

Is this a new record? Fortunately, I got a copy.

4.12pm, counter reappears, 4 remaining.

Sold out

I think 4.13pm was it. That, or when the counter disappeared at 4.11pm.

>110 podaniel: And indeed it is! Takes Zusak's The Book Thief's short-held title from September.

Ten minutes past the hour is when it showed out of stock for me. New record?

Probably not a record overall, but definitely a record for 1000 copies.

Already loads on ebay.

This was how I expected LOTR LE to sell out but that took like a week? Seems like my memory exaggerated.
A bit amusing to see the low stock alert flashing at 890/1000 copies.

>117 A.Godhelm: No sir! 34 hrs 15 mins. But an aeon next to The Hobbit.

Edit: wrong reply number.

Folio edited their last Instagram post to include '... now sold out.'

Screenshotted at 4.25pm, IG notes edit at 14 minutes ago, ergo, 4.11pm Folio edited to say sold out.

Per >114 What_What: it is then entirely possible it sold out at 4.10pm.

It has been pegged as going live (4) 7 minutes before the hour (some on Facebook noted 5 minutes, myself 4 minutes). Therefore, ~17 minutes to sell out, those first 7 minutes 'unofficial' but absolutely not inconsequential (423 gone before 4pm).

Edit: As per >125 antinous_in_london: a full 7 minutes before the hour was logged.

Well, that was fast!

>120 HonorWulf: Wasn't it just!

I had grave doubts it would so volant go, but how very wrong I was.

Once the statistics section for 'Fastest-selling Folio Society Books' is updated, 2024 will occupy the 1st, 2nd, 4th, & 5th positions.

>121 FitzJames: Apart from The Hobbit and The Book Thief, what are the other two ?

>122 Nerevarine: Neuromancer will take fourth, and Tales of Mystery & Imagination takes fifth position.

https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:BOOKS_PUBLISHED_BY_THE_FOLIO_SOCI...

Thanks :)

>102 FitzJames: I checked at 7 minutes before the hour & it was live for me (my order confirmation email came through at 15:55) - by the time I’d paid a minute later 99 were showing as sold. I’m sure it’s a ploy so they can claim a faster sell-out without counting the 7 minutes it was for sale pre the official launch 😂

>125 antinous_in_london: Thank you, I've edited >119 FitzJames: accordingly! Dashed odd how varied the times at which users find it changed from 'Coming Soon' to 'Add to Basket'.

And I fear I am cynical enough to subscribe to that line of thinking... I shall await any IG posts to see if Folio 'peg' a time as they did for the Zusak; I cannot imagine them not wanting to revel in this success.

Well, if you didn't get a copy...

>128 astropi: looks like 15 already sold on eBay too.

>129 EdmundRodriguez: Wow. I personally think $850 is too much for the book, but I guess never underestimate Tolkien's appeal.

>128 astropi: Flipping it before they even receive it. Bold.

Can we expect futures trading on the matching LE Silmarillion?

1000 copies sold. 1000 on ebay. If you were quick enough, with that 4 minute window you could have flipped it before 4pm.

It seems the early start may have varied between markets. Definitely three minutes early in Australia (1.57am in Brisbane), early still in some other places.

>133 wcarter: Was about 4-5 minutes early in NZ. I had my order confirmed at 04:57 and I farted around through checkout as my eyes were still a bit bleary. Definitely didn't show the 7 minutes early that some have reported.

>126 FitzJames: Not sure what country buyers are in, but Im in the UK so maybe the update bounces around a few satellites before it updates elsewhere ! The quicker the sale the more it helps them to build FOMO for any popular future LE’s. As i say , i was surprised that more than 5 minutes before the official launch at least 99 had already gone (probably more given that they don't update the counter in realtime) so people are learning to take the stated launch times with a pinch of salt !

>135 antinous_in_london:

I strongly suspect it was simply the UK site was updated a minute or two before the Rest of World site, so there were two start times. There are only two sites, so it wouldn't have updated differently between country, I don't think. Cacheing in cloudflare (or whatever) is possible, but I would have expected this content to be dynamic and non-cacheable.

I was showing 99 gone when my order was confirmed at 3:57 and all 1000 left at 3:55 when I added it to my ROW cart.

>136 stubedoo: Like you i fiddled around a bit at checkout as I’d forgotten they don’t take Amex anymore so i had to log-in & pay via paypal so that took me some extra time with paypal having to text me a security code before i could log-in ! After I’d purchased i looked again & it still said 99 gone so it hadn’t updated yet. I can’t imagine any future matching Silmarillion LE being as popular.

I got one for my nephew for a Christmas gift, but I found out from his parents that they had ordered it as well, so I guess I'll have an extra copy. Anyone want to arrange a trade if you have an extra LOTR LE? I missed that one completely.

>106 EdmundRodriguez: Looks like they had prior warning on FaceBook... :)

Nineteen copies for sale on Ebay now from £999 to £1600.

>140 wcarter: Seventeen copies coming up as sold on eBay.

Given that several of the flippers have flipped more than one copy, it seems that original buyers could get more than one. If so, it would really be nice if FS would have a one-per-household limit on LEs for a certain time period.

>142 A.Nobody: There was a limit to just one copy per account though. The flippers must have worked around this.

>143 santiamen: Flippers that have sold more than one copy on eBay:

1988memphis (x4)
ixth_legion_vault (x2)
thebookfather2 (x2)
vintagebookemporium (x2)

The other 16 sold are by individual flippers.

>142 A.Nobody: Not really sure how that would work - they could easily have FS accounts set up for themselves, a parent, brother , cousin, a work address etc & get them to order on their behalf - they would all be going to different people at different addresses & FS aren't detectives.
Technically if they wanted to FS could tie limitation numbers to a customer & by looking at the limitation numbers being listed for sale they could trace them back to whoever had bought them (though flippers usually don’t show the limitation number on the listing as they're usually listing before they even receive the item) - but I'm sure that currently LE’s are packed randomly so FS don’t even know which customer has received which number. Not that they really care as a sale is a sale.

>144 HonorWulf: But FS did limit the sales to one copy per account.
If they they ordered from different accounts or had relatives help out, you can't really prevent that.

This is where the old subscriber model works better - flippers would have to lay out £150 minimum for the off-chance of one limited edition coming out in that model year.

I've said it before, but I wonder if they're leaving money on the table by not insisting on more orders if you're a first time buyer. But I suppose the website isn't up to that sort of snuff.

>146 santiamen: Which is why I don't think it's a particularly high volume. If 5 or 10 percent of the run is flipped, it's probably all gravy in the end.

All in all, I think the point is you can't underestimate Tolkien's appeal. I know the FS has released LoTR and The Hobbit for many years, and this is the second LE as far as I know from them. In 7 years The Hobbit becomes public domain here in the USA, so you can expect a flurry of fine press editions around that time. Perhaps, the FS is milking what money they can before then...

>149 astropi: Wouldn't worry too much about it - even when it becomes public domain, the Tolkien estate will still use trademark law to make it very difficult to publish as Disney has done over the years.

>150 HonorWulf: Disney with their influence screwed things up for most everyone and got the Mickey Mouse Protection Act passed -- which should be repealed. Regardless, Disney can't do a thing if today you want to use the Steamboat Willie Mikey Mouse in most anything. Create a game, movie, use it in a comic, it's now public domain. The Tolkien Estate can try to do whatever, but at least here in the States they have no control over the Hobbit come 2032.

https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/mickey/

>151 astropi:

Only the first edition Hobbit text would become available in 2032 in the US. And it is significantly different that the 1951- text(s).

All of Tolkien is already public domain in NZ. Small market, but no one has felt the need to release anything. I don't see a giant rush of production in 2032.

>150 HonorWulf:

Yep, 100%.

>151 astropi: With trademark law, the Tolkien estate would be able to block publishers from using the name "Hobbit" or "Tolkien" in the title or any of the marketing, which makes it hard to sell. The ERB estate is currently doing this quite successfully with "Tarzan". And as Disney has shown, the trademark lawsuits alone can take years to resolve and at more cost then they are worth publishing in the first place.

>154 HonorWulf: If it becomes public domain, how could the estate prevent someone from marketing a book without using the name or author of the book?

>155 What_What: Copyright and trademark are two separate things. So, while the copyrighted material becomes public domain, the trademarks can be extended indefinitely.

>156 HonorWulf: Gotcha.

>147 InVitrio: Yeah, I think they should go back to the subscription model. Or at least give long-term customers first dibs.

>158 nau2002:

They would likely go bust, just as they nearly did when they had the subscription model last. They exist as a business to make money, which they seem to be doing better at these days.

>159 stubedoo: No no no no no!
Because a company had a subscription model and they were struggling to make ends meet, doesn't mean that subscription models don't work, and secondly that a subscription model at FS couldn't work in the future.

There are a myriad of possibilities including hybrid models.

One possibility, for example is that members get first bite at LEs, before they go public.

>160 LesMiserables:

They are currently profitably selling books after a long period of not being profitable under a subscription model. They simply don't need a subscription model. There is no need for them to provide anyone first bite at LEs because it doesn't advantage them as a business. They have LEs that sell out in 11 minutes - it seems like they are doing what is right for the owners. Not everyone - especially those that remember the glory days - might like it, but their current model appears to be working for them. At the end of the day, they are a publisher that sells books for money. Expecting them to specifically care about the consumer beyond delivering the product they have advertised is probably unrealistic -- unless it stops working for them and they need to make a different pivot.

People always love to think they can run a business better than the people actually running it, but they are usually wrong and working on a lot less data that those running the business.

If people want to buy an LE that is likely to be popular, set the alarm and go to the website at the time of release and buy it. I got up at 4:50AM had the book bought by 4:57AM (3:57PM GMT). It wasn't really an issue, and let's be honest - most titles don't sell this rapidly.

>161 stubedoo: Don't really have an issue with most of what you are saying here. I was referring tou your comments in the previous post, specifically: They would likely go bust.

That is just speculative and not based on any modelling. It is also not relative to any old system that they had in place.

I felt you were making generalisations about business determinism and Folio outcomes on the one hand, and dismissive of the viability of membership models and those who were previously members.

I'd say that your not the only one who takes this view, and fair enough.

What problem is a subscription model going to solve for the FS, specifically?

>161 stubedoo: But with a subscription model or some kind of hybrid, you will know who your core and loyal customers are. It seems wise from a business standpoint to differentiate that customer segment from others who may be more fickle. I think their core members would enjoy feeling they are part of a "society" again, even if it means that FS has to provide a few perks.

>164 nau2002: the risk in that case is that less frequent customers feel excluded.

I’ve heard exactly the opposite complaints on the fine press forum with grumbles about rights holders getting private preorder access while everyone else has to wait for the public scrum.

Mine arrived this morning & thankfully none of the problems that the LOTR set had for some people.

Received my copy today. I was very quick off the mark ordering this time and received a very low number which leads me to believe they do ship out sequentially. I might be wrong on this though.

Having a low number doesn't particularly impress me but it does look quite pleasing the first time you open the book.

Overall impressions after a quick skim, having not ordered original LOTR LE, are very positive. It's a lovely edition.

>168 LT79: My copy was delivered today but frustratingly I’m away from home so won’t get hands on it until tomorrow.

I do know I have a number in the mid 500s as the label was visible on the photo I got for confirmation of delivery.

That’s about right for where I ordered based on the stock counter but equally I must have been one of the very last to order the Neuromancer LE and ended up with a limitation in the 30s. It’s possible Folio treat different editions differently but I’m still inclined to think it’s random!

Thoughts on leather quality? There were some earlier conflicting reports on the animal, let alone the grade used. I note folio didn’t even identify the paper used on the store page but it was just about readable on the photo of the colophon.

>156 HonorWulf: That's a good point. I suspect trademark-wise, the Tolkien estate will continue to have movie rights etc. along with Amazon etc. However, for our purposes in the fine press community, that shouldn't stop a publisher from publishing a beautiful edition of The Hobbit :)

>152 stubedoo: Ah, excellent point. Basically, what we need is to repeal the asinine Copyright Term Extension Act here in the USA. Also, we need a fine press publisher in New Zealand to produce a fine press Hobbit! Kickstart it, and you can watch the money flow in...

>170 astropi: The Tolkien Estate has trademarks to "Tolkien", "JRR Tolkien", and the titles to all of his books, among other things, so a Fine Press publisher would not be able to produce an unauthorized public domain version titled "The Hobbit" by "JRR Tolkien", nor use any of those terms in their marketing.

In theory, they would be able to publish it as "The Furry-Footed Person" by a "Famous Fantasy Writer", but they would still be immediately hit by a lawsuit from the Tolkien Estate that would would put a legal hold on the product for multiple years as the case worked its way through the various court systems.

The text itself would be public domain and accessible for free for anyone that wants to read it. But anyone trying to profit off of it without the authorization of the Tolkien Estate would very quickly find themselves in a quagmire.

>171 HonorWulf: Disagree. At least here in the USA it's not possible to copyright/trademark an author's name after work from that author has entered the public domain. That's beyond ridiculous. Now, what they could do is perhaps trademark Tolkien's distinctive style. So this could be trademarked --


But once The Hobbit hits public domain (or at least first edition of the work), The Tolkien Estate can try and sue, but any judge worth their salt, again here in the USA, would throw that out.

>172 astropi: It's not ridiculous. From the Tolkien website:

"The names TOLKIEN and JRR TOLKIEN, the JRRT Monogram and JRR Tolkien Signature and the titles of many Tolkien works are registered trademarks belonging to the Tolkien Estate. In addition, many character names, places, events and other elements from
The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, including the titles of those works, are trademarked by The Saul Zaentz Company."

There is already many legal precedents for this. Even though many of ERB's early works are now public domain, if anyone tries to publish anything with the word "Tarzan" in the title or any of their marketing, they will be sued into oblivion under trademark law.

No Fine Press publisher worth their salt is going to risk their business over this.

>169 cyber_naut: I'm no expert on leather quality. The nicest leather edition from FS I own is London New York. The leather on those two books feel lovely and soft and warm to the touch. The Hobbit is much firmer I think. Not saying that is a bad thing though. I like the embossed parts on the spine. The paper is reasonable quality, not super thick but not thin either. The illustrations look really nice quality and texture to me with sharp colours. I think the abundance of illustrations are what tipped me towards buying. They make the book for me. The black and white illustrations dispersed between the text look great to me too. Even the round letterpress signature sheet is large and pleasant to the touch. It's quite a hefty book and bigger than I expected. I like it.

I've only had a brief flick through so will need to look at it in more depth at the weekend.

>173 HonorWulf: I'm afraid you are mistaken about this. That means you can't use the name just to make money, so you can't make a Tolkien cereal, or a Tarzan coloring book without explicit permission. However, you can, by USA law, print and distribute material in the public domain without needing permission from the original creator or estates etc. So someone who publishes a Tolkien/ERB work that is in the public domain can certainly attribute the work to the author.

>175 astropi: To be clear, a publisher can publish the public domain material for profit and attribute it to the original author, but they have to do it in such a way that does not violate any existing trademarks, which includes using the trademarked terms in any marketing material (including the exterior packaging of the material). And even if you cross the t's and dot the i's, you'll still get sued anyway by the Disneys and Tolkiens of the world who use their deep pockets to suppress any perceived threats to their IP. But, agree or disagree, we'll certainly find out the extent of trademark law over the next decade as some of these high profile works enter the public domain.

Astropi already covered the question of an author's name, but it is also not allowed in the U.S. to copyright a title. My understanding (not a lawyer, but related to one who I have discussed this with) is that if you want to name your book The DaVinci Code, you can do it.

>177 coynedj: https://www.mekiplaw.com/how-to-trademark-a-book-title/

And, yes, the Tolkiens (and their associated companies) have trademarks on the book titles as well as the author name. Once again, this doesn't mean a public domain publication can't include these terms. You simply can't market them for profit.

According to that site, "To qualify for a U.S. trademark for your book title, you will need to show that no one else has already trademarked it and that it is the title or name of a series of books." The Hobbit is not a series, though.

>179 coynedj: The Tolkien Estate owns the trademarks for "Tolkien" and "Silmarillion" which includes "Printed publications, namely, books, magazines, newspapers and newsletters in the field of literature":

Tolkien
https://trademarks.justia.com/783/08/tolkien-78308460.html

The Silmarillion
https://trademarks.justia.com/786/51/silmarillion-78651794.html

The Saul Zaentz Company owns the trademarks for "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" which includes "books on fantasy, books on myths, song books" and "printed matter; bookbinding material":

The Hobbit
https://trademarks.justia.com/877/32/the-87732362.html

The Lord of the Rings
https://trademarks.justia.com/879/83/the-lord-of-the-87983279.html

They own literally dozens of other trademarks as well, but I believe these are the main ones that they use for protecting their print IP.

>173 HonorWulf: you might be right practically speaking, but I would certainly appreciate some public minded copyright crusader creating a special purpose LLC to test this plutocratic nonsense and hopefully get it thrown out.

You shouldn't be able to trademark basic descriptive metadata that further constitutes core literary history. We could get a nice fine press edition out of it too, maybe!

Also, the theory of trademark is supposed to protect consumers from confusion about producer/origin and to promote competition! The legitimate trademark here is obviously HarperCollins, not Tolkien.

Updated statistics for book flippers of The Hobbit LE on Ebay:-
30 sold (£1100 to £850)
22 for sale

Other copies for sale on Abe and private bookseller websites. Some traditional booksellers also bought copies for resale.

Could be close to 10% of the edition was bought for resale.

>182 wcarter: Thanks Warwick. And that will only grow, I believe.
I prefer to call them scalpers, rather than flippers. Flippers to me are folks who buy and add something material in terms of labour or substance e.g. house flippers/renovations, car flippers etc.

This is more akin to ticket scalpers.
Makes my skin crawl.

>182 wcarter: >183 LesMiserables:

If anywhere near September's The Book Thief is scalped, 16% might easily be expected, which, with a limitation of 1,000 copies is 160 copies...

I can currently see on eBay UK (keywords base minimum of: 'Hobbit' & 'Folio' | item location set to 'Worldwide')*:

35 for sale
33 sold (£850 to £1,190)

A further 3 on AbeBooks.

*These chaps really are the laziest blighters you might imagine, heaven forfend you should put 'Tolkien' in the listing title! Or 'signed'!

---

26.xi.24 Edit:

34 for sale
44 sold (£720 to £1,195)

A further 5 on AbeBooks (£1,100 to £2,050), for a total of 83.

Anyone get a matching number to their LOTR? Mine was only 3 out (as it happens my matching number is available on eBay).

My copy has a little patch of foil missing from the "J" of J R R on the spine. Not ideal, but don't think it bothers me enough to do anything about it.

>181 abysswalker: Why don't you all just settle this copyright, trademark, etc. discussion by one of you taking it upon themselves to contact an intellectual property attorney and asking if/when a publisher can publish LOTR without permission

>183 LesMiserables: Which is why a membership model is best. Member vs. customer. Think about tit. With membership it's a different ethos. People would buy the book because they wanted it. Maybe they would eventually sell if if they were downsizing or just decided they didn't want it anymore. There's loyalty and adherence to some basic "community" norms. Now you have scalpers taking advantage and just trying to turn a quick profit, which alienates long-time folio customers.

>165 cyber_naut: Better to have your core and loyal members grumble?

>186 nau2002: I have and the short answer I got was "good luck!". The long answer is that it's mostly unsettled by current case law, but since the corporations and estates have been awarded trademarks for book publication, it would require someone with deep pockets to challenge the validity of these trademarks if they were to be used for profit.

There is legal theory, though, to suggest that these trademarks are invalid based on the Supreme Court's rulings in "Dastar Corp. v. Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp" (2003). However, the Court limited the scope of their ruling to the "reverse passing off" clause of the Lanham Act, so it'll take a further challenge to establish settled case law one way or the other.

I have mine in hand now and have spent enough time with it to form an opinion, which is broadly positive.

The slipcase is nice and solid. Seems to be the same specs as the LOTR but feels sturdier due to smaller size. There was a good dusting of gilt when I opened the packing but that seems to have settled down and there are no missing patches to my eye. The internal printed illustration is neither here nor there for me. I’d prefer something more protective like suedel, especially given the binding material and exposed illustration on the front. Not the best work I’ve ever seen with a spot where the cloth hasn’t been smoothed perfectly flat so has a ridge in it. This is only about an inch long and on the part folded into the slipcase so not the end of the world but I’d expect better QC for the price.

It’s mildly displeasing that the slipcase seems sized to accommodate the ephemera (print) rather than this coming separate. I doubt I’ll keep it in there and would prefer a slightly snugger fit but that’s being very picky.

The separate map is nicely printed on textured paper. Not much more to say about this other than, when closed, the ends of my map booklet do not align well. As in the front board overhangs the back. Not sure if this is intentional and the same for others?

Onto the main event! The leather seems of decent quality and I don’t notice any of the small splits people have mentioned on LOTR. It certainly smells like leather but there’s not much of it! I’m not crazy about the silk-like material (described as cloth in the colophon). It’s fine but feels too artificial to me and I might prefer the rougher cloth covering of the slipcase. Some small dirty marks too - almost like liquid has been on it and dried but these are very faint and probably not enough to contact FS over.

Paper nice and thick with a smooth finish and printing seems excellent. Gilded top edge rather too sparkly/glittery for my taste and I expected something less so given the overall subdued design.

It’s my first book with tipped in plates so a bit of a novelty for me. I like them but there were some hair-raising moments where some pages had stuck together due to errant spots of adhesive from the tipping in. Luckily separated without any visible damage but I was getting ready to contact FS over that.

All in all it’s a very nice edition. Is it value for money compared to a deluxe/numbered tier from some of the fine press publishers? Not really, but again they’re not publishing The Hobbit.

Interested to hear the thoughts of others who’ve received their copy! Especially about that misalignment of the boards for the map booklet!

One thing I really love about the edition is its size, perfect for enjoying in a comfy armchair. It's a sweet spot that a number of my favourite editions also occupy.



I also think the illustrations are great and the paper quality is decent (and as good as I'd bother with for offset printing).

The prior folio LE was a rebind of the standard edition, which never appealed to me. So I'm very glad they did these. Although the price of The hOBBIT is a tad ridiculous.

>190 cyber_naut: The image inside the slipcase is pointless but I think they did it purely to match the LOTR set.

You're correct about the misaligned edges on the map. Not sure if this is intentional for some reason. It doesn't particularly bother me. I hardly noticed it till you mentioned it. Is there any good reason for this?

I do think they should have gone full leather with this rather than the silk sides but I suppose the colour offers contrast to the leather and helps frame the central image.

This is why I like the three tier system of other publishers like CTP. They have the very top end option which has all the bells and whistles (full leather, letterpress, etc). Folio seem to stop short of this with their standard or limited. What's to stop them adding another tier and maybe utilising these top end versions for loyal customers and keeping the standard and limited a free for all?

I thought the end paper design was quite pleasant like you are stepping into an entrance to the story and exiting it on leaving the story. The images throughout are great.

Overall it's the best Hobbit around and will be for foreseeable future and it's signed by a great artist. But could be done better and probably will be further down the line.

Check all your illustrations are present. Chad over at TCG had 7 missing illustrations and I'm aware now of about 5 copies being returned because of serious production errors. Seems so far that the production and QA issues are just as bad as LotR.

>193 stubedoo: ohh, I’ll check that but there’s certainly no empty frames. Or do you mean entire pages missing?

What other kinds of production errors have you seen causing returns?

>194 cyber_naut:

Just the illustrations not tipped in, so the pages are present.

Cuts/scratches in the leather, scratches, glue smears, loose threads have all been problems. A friend of a friend ordered two copies (one for a family member) and both have had to be returned due to multiple defects.

I'm hoping mine will be OK. I had bad luck with the LotR, both with the original and the "fixed" set from Smith-Settle, so maybe I will do better this time around. I won't go the replacement/repair route this time though - burned by Folio last time.

>182 wcarter: Why are the individuals who bought them to sell on eBay called flippers, but in referring to the "traditional booksellers," you say they "also bought copies for resale"? Is there a practical difference in what they're doing? Just asking.

>196 What_What:
No difference.

>196 What_What:

No difference. I think people are getting unnecessarily upset about the flipping. I only ordered one copy (I doubt Folio will manage to supply me even ONE that is not faulty -- my replacement LoTR set is extremely mediocre, frankly+) but flipping these books is just capitalism. They were available for sale and there is a secondary market that will pay extra. Me NOT buying them to flip was probably stupid -- easy money.

+A big problem with these books is that they are being made with materials entirely unsuitable for book production. The cloth is totally unsuitable, so they can't even make it out of the bindery without scratches, rubs and scrapes. You then add in poor production practices with glue and you have a recipe for disaster. Hopefully next time around (if there is a next time around), more thought will be put into producing usable books.

The HarperCollins Super-deluxe CoH is what these should have been, really.

>189 HonorWulf: oh wow interesting.

>198 stubedoo: I've had no issues with my copy. I imagine most are in good condition. But I do agree that full leather would be much better for longevity than the silk sides.

Being artificial silk, I would imagine the sides would actually be quite durable.

>202 A.Nobody: I just imagine they will be easy to snag. Time will tell.

>177 coynedj: Yes indeed! Although The Hobbit is trademarked, so you can't use that in the title of your next play. However, you can certainly use it and Tolkien if you were writing something like this: A Brief Guide To J.R.R. Tolkien: The Unauthorized Guide To The Author Of The Hobbit And The Lord Of The Rings
https://www.amazon.com/Brief-Guide-J-R-R-Tolkien-Unauthorized/dp/1459672909
That was released back in 2013! Unauthorized means as it has nothing to do with the Tolkien estate.

I ordered mine from the USA at 3 mins before the hour on Tuesday and had my book in perfect shape Thursday morning. The shipping was impressive.

Did Folio produce an advertising brochure for this book? I have them for every book I have purchased the last being the London and New York in 2019. I assume no brochure but always worth checking.

No printed brochures for any book for two years.

>202 A.Nobody:

Gets marked really easily. The LoTRs were often marked during assembly.

>205 cu29640:

Glad you got a good one. I have my fingers crossed that I will have better luck this time!

Did you get tracking info? My dispatch email said I would get it from the carrier. Nothing so far (was dispatched Thursday).

>208 stubedoo: I got a FedEx tracking # on Wed morning and the last track showed it leaving the UK and boom the next day there it is on my deck. Quality is good. No marks, bends, etc. I am confused about the illustrations. It seems not all are original for this one version? Are all exclusive to Folio? What prior book would they have been used in? I assume the design elements throughout the book, from binding designs, vignettes, to the tipped in illustrations should all be exclusive to Folio which makes the Limited Edition unique.

There were some pages where the page stuck to the the glue on the edge of a tipped in illustration but with a careful tug it separates safely and does not restick. Some Easton Press Books have done the same.

>209 cu29640:

Only three (?) new illustrations in the books, I believe -- those on the covers. Plus the box liner and the art print. The majority of the illustrations have been used since 1997 in the HarperCollins Alan Lee releases, with a couple of illustration changes along the line. The chapter openers are also new. The sketches are not new.

So (like the LotR) the Folio has a little bit of new material, but not much. I imagine like with the LotR, there will be a HarperCollins release that includes the additional Folio material plus a couple of additional ones.

Interesting that you got a Fedex # - I've had nothing.

>192 LT79:

What’s the image inside the slipcase? Bilbo’s forgotten handkerchief?

>211 betaraybill: That's the issue in that it's hard to see. I just see Bilbo walking in the distance. I'm not even sure what the end papers represent. It will need a bigger Tolkien geek than me as I've, shockingly, never read the Hobbit. It's a Christmas read for me. I thought if I'm going to read it I'll get the best version I can find.

One thing I will say is the size of this book is a real plus and something it has over other editions. The font and images are large and there's plenty of space. The HC ones look more squeezed to me.

>211 betaraybill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QShEoavcQE&t=30m52s

>212 LT79:

The HC images are not smaller, though depends on the edition. The existing editions don’t have decorative borders or such large margins.

>214 stubedoo: I just have the four volume HC set with the illustrated book covers which I like although the images aren't the best quality. It's not the deluxe set though which might have better quality illustrations than that set.

>215 LT79:

The best quality images from
HC would be on the 1997- edition, which is now out of print (but a dime a dozen on eBay).

>213 mr.philistine: Thanks!

>212 LT79: Enjoy your first reading of this enchanting tale!

Really looking forward to receiving my HC LOTR 70AEd, and my 3v JRRT Poetry Works.

Thanks and appreciation for all the useful and informative comments.

I like the FS version but a little shocked that all of the illustrations are not exclusive to the edition. Might defeat the purpose of the premium LE. I haven't seen the Harper Collins versions but I assume they are not collector edition quality? Innocent assumption.

>220 cu29640:
I don't think there is an objective criteria for assessing whether or not something is worthy of being deemed qualitatively a collector edition, although I do get your point.

I bought the FS LotR LE, and recently bought the new 70th HC edition.

I’m honestly wondering if I should sell the Folio set. I honestly prefer handling the HC set (the cloth on the FS is damn too fragile), and the quality is quite good. Great value imo, especially considering there’s more artwork in it. I just love Alan Lee’s work though, so I kind of want to keep the FS for his signature.

I didn’t buy The Hobbit LE, knowing there’ll most likely be a HC edition with possibly more new artwork.

>220 cu29640: The recent Hobbits aren't. There were two almost identical "super-deluxe" limited editions of 600 copies (UK), 250 each for Canada and Australia back in 1997, which were collector quality binding wise (and frankly better looking). The page blocks were just trade, though that isn't a bad thing as it was an oversize trade with decent paper. These books sell for a lot more than the new Folio these days (and are more desirable at this point to most collectors). Anybody's guess which will be the most in-demand in another 20 years, though.

>222 Nerevarine:

I'm considering getting rid of the LotR as well. I'm primarily a Hobbit collector and the LotR as you say as absurdly fragile. The cloth just isn't suitable. I have the 70th HC, but is at my folks place in the UK. If I really like it, the Folio will likely go. I'll keep the Hobbit assuming I get a decently finished one.

>220 cu29640: I think the point is that the Alan Lee illustrations are themselves a classic (though not being that old, originally released in the early 90s). Additionally, Peter Jackson based the look of his movies on Alan Lee's work, which also makes it "Tolkien" for a vast swath of the population.

Another point: many of the finest of fine press releases involve high quality facsimiles (or recuttings) of classic illustrations (Botticelli for the Nonesuch Dante and many Officina Bodoni releases come immediately to mind). Illustrations "exclusive to" is a modern marketing gimmick.

>225 abysswalker: Good points. I can appreciate the original illustrations. The Hobbit is a keeper. Thought there are plenty of cool EP and FS Limited Deluxe Editions with exclusive illustrations that I am pleased with as well. Same can be said for the reproductions. I wish Folio would return to some of the bird plates books and the illuminated manuscripts.

Honestly, if they did an LotR with the original Grathmer illustrations, rather than the Eric Foster re-drawings, I'd be all in. They are lovely illustrations and the world is a lesser place for them having never actually been seen in an LotR. I like EFs re-interpretation (as used by Folio in the standard editions), but they are very different.

>225 abysswalker: Not sure it's a gimmick so much as having become a big part of the value proposition. You can see that thread running through the discussion on LOTR LE and Hobbit LE; a lack of exclusivity dampens interest - even the "new" illustrations became part of widely available sets. As with a lot of luxury products half the battle is making people see a value in what you're offering and to that end offering illustrations not seen elsewhere is a more immediate argument than making new customers appreciate the handcrafts of letterpress, binding styles and paper quality levels.
Similarly I suspect the (perceived) value of high quality facsimiles has dropped as the ease of access to high quality reproductions online became ubiquitous.

>228 A.Godhelm: 'Similarly I suspect the (perceived) value of high quality facsimiles has dropped as the ease of access to high quality reproductions online became ubiquitous.'

You might be on to something there. One of my workmates has a daughter who claims she doesn't need to ever read a book because she has a phone. Mind you, I don't think she would be interested in Folio's LEs whatever format they came in so she's probably not a representative sample.

I grew up pre-internet so I find it hard to think that an online reproduction, no matter how high quality, captures anything like the same experience of actually holding (touching, feeling, smelling) a physical thing; younger internet natives might well feel differently. Perhaps Folio could digitise all their content for the full 3D VR experience?

>228 A.Godhelm:

Online access to scans doesn't live up to having a facsimile to me. It's a completely different experience. But I can imagine that not everyone is willing to pay for something they might also be able to see for free online, which is the case with some libraries and their rare editions.

>230 SF-72: I was just speaking with the wifey about this topic -- the "greatly exaggerated death of books" which was supposed to have happened by now. Decades ago (some) people were certain that with the internet as well as new technology such as Kindle, books were certain to be obsolete in the upcoming decade or two. Well, stop by a Barnes & Noble now and chances are it will be decently full! The soothsayers apparently neglected to take this into account:

*People like shopping for books.
*People like drinking coffee and reading actual books.
*People like the tactile feel of a book.
*People like reading books more than looking at screens.

And so, even if some rare books are scanned online, I agree it's a completely different experience which explains the longevity of the book and why it will continue to remain with us. Of course, substantially higher-quality books are a niche market, but at least with respect to truly fine press (letterpress) I believe we're in a renaissance and I'm all for it!

>231 astropi:

I agree about the Renaissance, especially of nicer editions, which is great. I remember the theory that within years, printed books would be on the verge of dying out. It's quite the opposite, at least when you stay away from certain niches, especially self-publishing or some small publishers, where ebooks really are the norm by now.

Fyi - according to the Facebook group, Folio has reached a deal with the printer to produce a replacement run for the high amount of damaged copies that have been reported. No idea how this impacts the limitation numbers, but contact Folio Customer Support if you're one of the impacted buyers for more information.

There have been a lot of comments on Facebook about the quality of the Hobbit LE, complaining about very minor issues, but virtually none here. My copy arrived in pristine and perfect condition. Maybe only the complainers make posts.

>234 wcarter: mine not only arrived in perfect condition but a mere two days after I ordered it and I didn’t pay for expedited shipping to the US. Random limitation number generator still at work given that I purchased it at 9:53 am (website opened for orders a few minutes before the advertised local time of 10 am) and received number 336.

It took me nearly 35 min after the on sale time for LOTR order to finally go through and yet I received number 54 for that set.

Rather overpriced for its length and in comparison to the three-volume LOTR, but it is gorgeous and the illustrations are beyond generous and I have no regrets!

>234 wcarter: my copy had a chunk of the gilding missing, so I’m part of the group waiting for them to print and bind new copies. Interestingly, unlike every other time I’ve had issues with Folio books, they indicated they’re going to arrange for a return of the damaged copy, which I’m glad they’re doing. I ask them to do that every time I’ve had to return something, and they always say no - I guess transoceanic shipping costs make it not feasible most of the time.

As mentioned up the thread, mine also has some foiling issues on the spine. I've not contacted folio about it, but I'll probably let them know about it (so they have the data about numbers of defective copies), but I'm not sure I can be bothered with a replacement.

>236 jsg1976:
Nice, so you can sell your damaged copy for half the price and keep the Fine one.
Sounds like a splendid steal 😁

What type of defects are buyers seeing on the Hobbit? Thus far I only see an issue where the foiling on the slipcase weakens around the corners but that is to be expected when a soft cloth surface is foiled around a crease. Can photos of live purchases no longer be shown? Copyright law doesn't extend to one showing a product I don't believe. Applies to box opening videos too. One is not holding the content out as one's own product or selling it en masse.

>239 cu29640: There's pictures in the Facebook, Reddit and Tolkien Collector's forums. The issues seem to boil down to three areas: 1. Missing or damaged tip-ins (definitely double check them if you haven't already); 2. Foil flaking (some minor, some major); and 3. Scratch marks on the book or case (again some minor, some major). Personally speaking, some of the complaints are more legitimate than others, but I imagine people's sensitivity is increased due to the price of the book.

One positive is that some of the more audacious flippers may have been burned. Especially the ones that sold them on ebay even before they had received them. I'd imagine the desperation buyers on ebay were even more fussy about the book they received because of the mark up.

My copy had unsightly marks on the rear board when you look at it at the right angle. It’s weird, because full on it looks fine, but when you move around it looks almost like dark grey water splashes. It’s ridiculous really. I’ve reached out and I’m waiting for a response.

I’ve also seen more than a few other complaints about flaws of this nature.

I do feel bad about, but it’s an expensive book, it should be perfect. I imagine all these returns will eat away at their profit on this edition, but so be it.

>234 wcarter:

Nah, some of them (probably a small number) have had *major* faults. Just because yours was pristine doesn't mean they all were. Same as the LotR, there were perfectly good copies and train-wrecks.

>233 HonorWulf:

I imagine they will just write in the limitation number as each faulty copy is returned / swapped, so LEGO will supply them without the number. Can't see any other way of doing it.

>239 cu29640:

Ones I've heard of - entirely missing illustrations, smudged illustrations/illustrations with ink runs, illustrations stuck to the opposing page, scratches/cuts in cloth and leather, glue smudges on cloth, loosely bound in page block, missing sections of gilt.

Mine just arrived. The back board is a mess of marks and a couple of significant scratches 3" long. Will be returned. Boards were also slightly bowed (minor) and stamping was imperfect (but not enough to worry about). No issues with the front and all the illustrations appear to be present. The slipcase has no issues, nor do the maps.

Basically, it had exactly the problems reported elsewhere.

I believe the illustrations stuck to prior page can be resolved as the glue is not that aggressive. EP copies have had the same issue. Are the illustrations printed litho or giclee?

>245 stubedoo: All the more reason for checking every book you buy from Folio.
I have in the past been a wee bit remiss in this myself, even shelving a book with shrink wrap still on.
Never again. The books are not cheap.
There is more than enough of a representative sample here to demonstrate that quality control is not what it should be.

>248 LesMiserables:

Honestly, quality is really poor from a lot of publishers at the moment. I check everything thoroughly as soon as I receive it, and I have a high return rate. The last 5 years or so, quality has plummeted (sadly prices have not plummeted correspondingly!)

At £600 + shipping and taxes, these Hobbits are extraordinarily expensive, and the quality is simply not there. Like many of the LotRs that got sent out, they should not have left the bindery. Presumably either Folio isn't paying enough for LEGO to make them properly or LEGO has gotten greedy on margins or simply doesn't have access to the skilled labour to put these books together.

>247 cu29640: I was able to remove the adhesive that had oozed over the top of tipped in plates by careful and light rubbing with a soft eraser.

Illustrations are all litho, other than the separate print which is giclee.

I hope people sent the books backs until all of the 1000 pieces of limitation are perfect. For that price the book should be pristine.
Folio Societies lack of quality control is getting disastrous. They have it with their SE as well.

>242 What_What: My copy looks good overall, I've had no serious issues but I've just had a look turning it at the angle you suggested and I can see marks that are not visible when it's straight on. This just appears on the back. Not sure what to do now as really this shouldn't be the case with a book of that price. What do you think that is on the back? I've never needed to return any book in the past. I usually let minor things go. I could live with it but at the same time it's not ideal is it?

>252 LT79: LEGO did something during their production process that ruined the back boards for these books - in all the instances I’ve seen the fronts are fine.

If I were you I’d complain, but I’ve already said that’s what I’ve done; waiting to hear from them. I don’t think it’s acceptable on a book that costs this much.

>253 What_What: that's fair enough. I think, when they've been working on the book, they have been sliding it on its back across a surface without lifting it. This might be ok with more robust materials but ends up marking materials like this.

>252 LT79:

If the marks are only barely visible, I
might personally not worry too much. Pretty much every copy of LotR is like this. My Hobbit is far worse. Grubby marks and long scrapes visible from any angle.

Lego are making a new batch of books which will be ready in a few weeks. Hopefully they get their processes fixed well enough to work with this unsuitable cloth.

The faulty books will be collected (and then presumably destroyed).

Thankfully my copy arrived fine, just the slipcase I'm having to replace. Top and bottom boards aren't bonded at all to the sides and are just floppy. Not sure the cloth is meant to be structural but that's what it's doing.

>255 stubedoo: "The faulty books will be collected (and then presumably destroyed)."

Yes, I sincerely hope none find their way to ebay.

>255 stubedoo: Your edition does sound much worse. I'll have another look at mine tomorrow in daylight and make a decision.

It would be unfair to have duplicate numbered copies swimming around so you would hope they. would remove them from circulation.

I imagine we will find the returned copies at the popup next year.

>259 anthonyfawkes: At these pop ups, with returned LEs, do they remove the signed and numbered part?

The back board fabric on my volume does have some minor rub marks in certain light angles no doubt due to the movement allowed inside the slipcase. Perhaps additional paper protectors were needed. But I don't see the marks any worse than say those paper bounded limited editions have like the Alice in Wonderland. Hence hesitance to give up an otherwise perfect book (I checked every page) for a replacement.

>261 cu29640:

You can see my copy here for comparison with yours.

https://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=60103#forumpost...

Definitely not from rubbing during transport, IMHO. These are issues caused during assembly.

>259 anthonyfawkes:

How does that work, given their claim of a limited edition of 1,025 if they subsequently supply hundreds of returns to the market?

>263 stubedoo: I do hope they make it to their “seconds” sale or whatever it’s called. They strike through the old limitation and stamp it as returned, not for resale, and sell it at a discount as out of series copies. I am supportive as it’ll offset the costs of replacing all these copies.

>264 What_What:

It beats wasting them, but it does make a mockery of the limitation if we are talking about large numbers (possibly hundreds).

>264 What_What: "offset the costs of replacing all these copies"

The chargeback should land on the supplier unless Folio is not so skilled writing contracts.

They shouldn't do any more books at LEGO. Mayor problems. Wasn't the LotR the same messy release ?

>267 Ragnaroekk:

Yes it was. I got a dud for that one also. My replacement was better in some ways, worse in others.

>266 abysswalker:

I’d imagine the books are at Lego’s expense, but shipping costs are likely at Folio’s.

I have now read numerous damning reviews of the new LOTR and Hobbit on places like Reddit and your dedicated Tolien fan pages.

The FS via LEGO is clearly falling down in meeting customer recommendations.

>270 LesMiserables:

To be fair, plenty of people seem to be happy with them. There are clearly a lot of quality problems, but some buyers seem to have received copies of both that they are really happy with. Seems like pot luck. My luck with Folio and HarperCollins seems to be below average!

>270 LesMiserables: my experience is LEGO has been good with standard editions. I think the issues here (and with the LotR before) is more based on design and materials choice.

I saw people on the Tolkien fans forum also criticizing the Hobbit LE paper in comparison to the LotR, which if true is also unfortunate, given a shorter work should be a better candidate for thicker paper without becoming unwieldy.

>273 abysswalker:

I think design and materials are at the heart of the problems. LEGO have definitely made some excellent deluxe books in the past. I think the lack of durability of the cloth is making it hard to make these on commercial scales.

>273 abysswalker: I agree that LEGO do a fine job on standard Folio titles, I haven't had any problems with any of the ones I've purchased.

>273 abysswalker: As far as I can tell the paper is the same.

They have tweaked the leather and its stamping (which caused splits on LOTR because it was too sharp and close to the edges. The hobbit blind stamping is less sharp and further in from the edges).

>276 EdmundRodriguez:

It felt less smooth to me, but I wasn’t checking back to back with them both open. I’ll have another look tomorrow. Maybe I’m remembering the LotR paper more nostalgically.

My LotR has splits in the stamping. Sent them back and got them back with worse splits (including on Two Towers which had previously no issues). Sigh. They fixed the front of Fellowship which was really bad in terms of the cloth, but the replacement had a slight bit of loss to the cover illustration. I was over it at that point and just accepted it wasn’t 100%. They had no materials to make any new ones by then (smith-settle had made the new Fellowship using materials provided by Lego).

Hopefully the replacement Hobbits are properly QCd this time.

>276 EdmundRodriguez:

Just to show what I mean:

Leather is a little thicker on the Hobbit (below, The Two Towers above).


The stamping is also changed, Hobbit on the left (I assume to further reduce the risk of the leather splits seen in LOTR).

You can also see the imperfect foiling on my copy.

>278 EdmundRodriguez:

The stamping on your LotR is way closer to the edges than on any of my volumes. Hard to be sure from your image, but your Hobbit looks less deeply stamped than mine.

I spent some time this morning looking through my copy in detail. All is good except that back board.

But if I'm being honest I think it's the nature of blue material which is going to get marked over time, will probably obtain scratches when pulling in and out of the slipcase and where the material meets the leather it will potentially slightly fray in places over time. So to me it's clear cut. Either come to terms with the material or do a full return and refund. Absolutely no point in returning to have it touched up only to have similar issues down the line. I'm still within the return period so this is what I'm debating. Everything is fine but I'm just not a fan of that blue material.

>280 LT79: When you’ve had a car for a few years, it has all sorts of little scrapes - brushing against it in tight spaces, debris on the highway, kids, whatever. That doesn’t mean you should accept it from the dealer brand new with any wear though.

Similarly, if the Folio Society wanted to sell us used books, that’s fine, but don’t charge us the price of a new book. If you’re charging £600, you have to deliver a brand new item, free from flaws, and we’ll add the character ourselves.

>281 What_What: that's fair enough. I'm not disagreeing with you. Makes total sense. I'm just saying it's inevitable that it will be marked in future with that material. It's just something to consider if you want to keep the book long term.

To me, if I return it, then it's for good. I don't want a replacement.

>282 LT79: I understand. Lots of people will fall in both of our camps I’m sure.

>282 LT79:

Depends on the kinds of marks. A copy in normal very careful use would never get the scratches some of these are arriving with. My copy looks awful from all angles. The rubs aren’t super onvious at 90 degrees though.

The light rubbing, I’d agree with - if you take it out of the slipcase a few dozen times the material is probably going to get some shiny spots. It is just an unsuitable material - appears to have been chosen on the assumption no one would ever look at these books closely except perhaps once or twice (which is probably true for 90% of them).

>262 stubedoo: Ahh yes that is horrendous. Definitely worthy of a return. Mine shows only the slightest contact marks only visible with a close look under light. Similar rub marks show on those books bound with the same paper as the Alice in Wonderland. Folio should have bound these Tolkien books in the same cover material as The Wanderer.

>285 cu29640:

Pretty bad, isn’t! Hard to see how it was considered acceptable to pack and send out. Not a hidden flaw, that is for sure! I swore when I took it out of the slipcase as I knew from early reports it was going to a 50:50 lottery at best.

>240 HonorWulf: Where on Facebook is this book being discussed? Would like to find the proper forum mainly out of interest in reading about this book and other limited editions.

>287 cu29640: Fans of the Folio Society is the main page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/60943174501/

It's independently run and has over 9000 members. It's private, so you'll need to submit a join request.

Despite not purchasing either, I'm disappointed for all on here who have received below par copies.

The only consolation I can see is the hassle the scalpers will be getting.

>289 LesMiserables:

Ha Ha. Yeah, the scalpers will be having to deal with eBay returns and then their own returns.

I got my Hobbit LE. It was in great condition! No problems here.

>291 nau2002:

Good to hear it! I know of a few people personally that have received them and seems about 50:50 between no issues and one or more significant issues. It proves LEGO *can* make them and that quality control at the various stages of production is the killer here.

If you have bought the Hobbit LE please vote in the poll at >272 wcarter:

>293 wcarter:

Seems to be sitting at around a third damaged/faulty at the moment, though I can see that shifting further in favour of undamaged, just because people with damaged copies tend to be paying more initial attention to threads like this than people with fine copies.

>260 LT79: I'm actually not sure what they do in that regard, there weren't enormous amounts of LEs at the popup this year (the only one I've been to) and while I had a large stack of books in my hands by the time I left, none of them were LEs so I didnt browse through any of them. It would be weird to see 300 copies of The Hobbit LE at the next popup.

I believe some of the other forum members were there this year and maybe bought some of the LEs so maybe they would know.

>295 anthonyfawkes: In the past, returned LE's have been stamped "Returned Imperfect Stock" clearly on the limitation page in bright red letters. However, we don't know what Folio's agreement is with the printer in the case of The Hobbit in terms of whether they're keeping the damaged copies, destroying them or returning them to the printer.

I think 300 copies of the Hobbit at a pop up would be hilarious.

Is there likely to be another LE this year? It's becoming quite the spectacle!

>276 EdmundRodriguez:

The paper is definitely not the same, at least on my copies. Whilst both Munken Pure, the LotR paper is visibly smoother when you put the books side-by-side. You can also feel the difference. Likely the paper specifications have simply changed in two years.

Still 18 Hobbit LE for sale on Ebay.

>299 wcarter:

They seem to be selling fairly consistently though, one or two a day. Not at the initial silly markups though.

>299 wcarter:
The prices of those 18 Hobbit LE are hilarious.
If those sell for this prices we don't need to wonder, if Folio increases the LE prices again.

>300 stubedoo:
That's insane...

>302 Ragnaroekk:

For the materials and general finish on offer here, even the RRP is a bit nuts, tbh. Paying beyond that is just batshit crazy.

>303 stubedoo:
Agreed.
I will wait for the HC edition, as I anticipate it might include some additional features. If this edition matches the quality of the last Lord of the Rings set from HC—which I own and deeply admire—there’s potential to have it rebound in full leather (or another premium material) by Ludlow.
Even with a custom rebind and a slipcase, the total cost together with the HC edition would likely be far more reasonable than the current eBay prices for the Folio Society Limited Edition.
I bet it won't exceed 800€.

Isn't it with everything? The brand is the most important...

>304 Ragnaroekk:

Books like this sell primarily on the perceived exclusivity associated with the artificial limitation. It would be impossible for someone with reasonable exposure to quality books to look at The Hobbit LE in person and examine it closely with a relatively open mind and come to the conclusion that £600 is a sensible price for what is on offer. The page block is pretty good (though simply not as good as the LotR), but when you consider how much is being paid for a small strip of leather and some rayon glued onto some boards with less care than necessary it is obvious that most of the consumer's money is going towards "big" and "I have one, but you don't". This book almost perfectly represents the human condition in modern capitalist societies.

>305 stubedoo: The FS also had to pay the estate for the rights, which we have no idea how much it costs. Also, every one of those pieces of artwork had to be ripped in by hand, which can’t be cheap.

Not that I disagree with you, but these are a couple of the less obvious things that are built in.

>306 What_What: I wonder whether FS really had to pay the estate directly or if there is some agreement with Harper Collins? There has to be some reason the design language of LOTR LE and the recent HC deluxe editions are so similar.

>307 cyber_naut:

It would be via HarperCollins who have the publishing rights.

>278 EdmundRodriguez: Leather is a little thicker on the Hobbit...

I would guess thicker boards, else it would mean thicker cloth (art silk) sides as well.

Reminder to anyone who received one of these, wcarter has a poll for "was it damaged on receipt?".

>272 wcarter:

As of writing:
Yes: 9
No: 14
Undecided: 1

I'm the one who voted undecided. There were some minor marks on the back and some slight fraying in some places where the blue cloth meets the leather. These I gently cut off with no major harm. The marks, although not ideal, were not enough for me to push it into a yes vote. Most FS books I purchase have been fine. Most of the Hobbit was fine except these things on the back. I think the issue is that blue material really. I doubt FS will use it again. Overall I agree though that a £600 book should be flawless.

This has to be the cheapest Hobbit LE on eBay - BIN $50, and 'For the true fans of The Lord of the Rings franchise...'
https://www.ebay.com/itm/186534622861

>312 mr.philistine:
😀🤪😁