PAUL C in the War Room - And Pondering Who Should Rule Bohemia

The Thirty Year's War was between the Bourbons and the Hapsburgs and between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.

The Opening Words

I am reading Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy which has been longlisted for the Women's Prize and which I am fairly confident will be shortlisted next week.




"Well, Sailor. Here we are once more, you and me in one another's arms. The Earth rotates beneath us and all is well, for now. You don't understand yet that what we share is temporary. But I do. I close my eyes and I understand."

Interested........................?

Books Read

January

1. Dear Future Boyfriend by Cristin O'Keefe Aptowicz (2000) 90 pp Poetry / 150Y Challenge 15/150
2. Pax Romana by Adrian Goldsworthy (2016) 420 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 16/150
3. The Lantern Bearers by Rosemary Sutcliff (1959) 306 pp Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 17/150
4. Black Hearts in Battersea by Joan Aiken (1964) 286 pp Fiction / BAC / 150Y Challenge 18/150
5. Carthage Must Be Destroyed by Richard Miles (2010) 373 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 19/150
6. When We Were Warriors by Emma Carroll (2019) 248 pp Fiction / War Room / 150y Challenge 20/150
7. Double Indemnity by James M Cain (1936) 136 pp Thriller / 150Y Challenge 21/150
8. Persian Fire by Tom Holland (2005) 376 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 22/150

February

9. North Woods by Daniel Mason (2023) 369 pp Fiction 150Y Challenge 23/150
10. The African by JMG Le Clezio (2004) 106 pp Non-Fiction / 150Y Challenge 24/150
11. The British are Coming by Rick Atkinson (2019) 564 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
12. Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather (1927) 297 pp Fiction 150Y Challenge 25/150
13. Redcoat by Bernard Cornwell (1987) 405 pp Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 26/150

March

14. Fatal Colours by George Goodwin (2011) 239 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 27/150
15. R.S. Thomas : Selected Poems by R.S. Thomas (2003) 343 pp Poetry / BAC / 150Y Challenge 28/150
16. The Maiden by Kate Foster (2023) 370 pp Fiction
17. The Storm We Made by Vanessa Chan (2024) 334pp Fiction / Warm Room
18. The Wren, The Wren by Anne Enright (2023) 273 pp Fiction
19. The Brothers York : An English Tragedy by Thomas Penn (2019) 572 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
20. Pet by Catherine Chidgey (2023) 323 pp Fiction
21. Brotherless Night by VV Ganeshanathan (2023) 341 pp Fiction
22. Breakdown by Cathy Sweeney (2024) 217 pp Fiction
23. Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas (1954) 108 pp Drama / BAC / 150 Y Challenge 29/150
24. Bosworth: Psychology of a Battle by Michael Jones (2002) 220 pp Non-Fiction/ War Room / 150Y Challenge 30/150

Books Read 2nd Quarter

April

25. The Sweet Science by A.J. Liebling (1956) 232 pp Non-Fiction / AAC / 150Y Challenge 31/150
26. The Talented Mr. Ripley by Patricia Highsmith (1955) 249pp Thriller / 150Y Challenge 32/150 / 1001 Books
27. Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad (2023) 319 pp Fiction / War Room
28. Quartet in Autumn by Barbara Pym (1977) 186 pp Fiction / 150Y Challenge 33/150 / BAC/ 1001 Books
29. A History of the Crusades I by Steven Runciman (1951) 281 pp Non-Fiction / War Room / 150Y Challenge 34/150
30. Loot by Tania James (2023) 289 pp Fiction
31. Field Work by Seamus Heaney (1979) 56 pp Poetry / 150Y Challenge 35/150
32. A History of the Crusades II by Steven Runciman (1952) 385 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
33. A History of the Crusades III by Steven Runciman (1954) 401 pp Non-Fiction / War Room
34. Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy (2023) 233 pp Fiction
35. The People of Hemso by August Strindberg (1887) 152 pp Fiction / 1001 Books / 150Y Challenge 36/150
36. Five Children and It by E. Nesbit (1902) 237 pp Fiction / 150Y Challenge 37/150
37. The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope (1875) 766 pp Fiction / BAC / 150Y Challenge 38/150

Currently Reading

The War Room



JANUARY - Ancient Wars (Greeks/Romans/Persians/Carthage/Egyptians/Alexander, etc) https://www.librarything.com/topic/356820
1. Pax Romana by Adrian Goldsworthy
2. The Lantern Bearers by Rosemary Sutcliff
3. Carthage Must Be Destroyed by Richard Miles
4. Persian Fire by Tom Holland

FEBRUARY - The American War of Independence : https://www.librarything.com/topic/358097#n8402612
1. The British are Coming by Rick Atkinson
2. Redcoat by Bernard Cornwell

MARCH - The War of the Roses : https://www.librarything.com/topic/358941
1. Fatal Colours by George Goodwin
2. The Brothers York : An English Tragedy by Thomas Penn

APRIL - Wars of Religion
1. Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad
2. A History of the Crusades I by Steven Runciman
3. A History of the Crusade II by Steven Runciman

MAY - Napoleonic Wars
JUNE - English Civil War
JULY - Colonial Wars

AUGUST - WW2
1. When We Were Warriors by Emma Carroll
2. The Storm We Made by Vanessa Chan

SEPTEMBER - American Civil War
OCTOBER - American Follies (Korea, Vietnam, Gulf-War, Afghanistan)
NOVEMBER - WW1
DECEMBER - Spanish Civil War

WILDCARD - Pick your own fight

British Author Challenge (Hosted by my friend Amanda)



JANUARY - Joan Aiken & Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle : Black Hearts in Battersea
FEBRUARY - Emma Newman & Ronald Firbank
MARCH - Welsh Writers : Selected Poems R.S. Thomas; Under Milk Wood
APRIL - Barbara Pym & Anthony Trollope - Quartet in Autumn; The Way We Live Now

American Author Challenge (Hosted with occasional assistance this year by my friend Linda)



JANUARY - Mark Twain
FEBRUARY - Susan Sontag
MARCH - Truman Capote
APRIL - Non-Fiction - The Sweet Science by AJ Liebling

150 YEARS OF BOOKS

150 years; 150 books; 150 authors; 15 months

Done:
Row 1 : 1874, 1875, 1887


Row 2 : 1889, 1902


Row 3 : 1904, 1908, 1910, 1915


Row 4 : 1923, 1927


Row 5 : 1936, 1937, 1945


Row 6 : 1951, 1954, 1955 1956, 1958, 1959


Row 7 : 1964, 1966, 1977


Row 8 : 1979, 1987


Row 9 : 1994, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005


Row 10 : 2010, 2011, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2023

Women's Prize List



Current Ranking
1. Brotherless Night by V.V. Ganeshanathan READ
2. Western Lane by Chetna Maroo READ
3. Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy READ
3. The Maiden by Kate Foster READ
4. The Wren, The Wren by Anne Enright READ
5. Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad READ

A Trace of Sun by Pam Williams
Ordinary Human Failings by Megan Nolan
Hangman by Maya Binyam
8 Lives of a Century Old Trickster by Mirinae Lee owned
Nightbloom by Peace Adzo Medie owned
In Defence of the Act by Effie Black
Restless Dolly Maunder by Kate Grenville owned
River East, River West by Aube Rey Lescure owned
The Blue Beautiful World by Karen Lord owned
And Then She Fell by Alicia Elliott

Up next 8 Lives of a Century Old Trickster

Paul's Alternative Women's Prize Longlist

Current Ranking

1. Loot by Tania James READ
2. Pet by Catherine Chidgey READ
3. Tom Lake by Ann Patchett READ
4. The Storm We Made by Vanessa Chan READ
5. Breakdown by Cathy Sweeney READ

6. Night Wherever We Go by Tracey Rose Peyton owned
7. I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai owned
8. Julia by Sandra Newman owned
9. Let Us Descend by Jesmyn Ward owned
10. Stone Yard Devotional by Charlotte Wood owned
11. The Middle Daughter by Chika Unigwe owned
12. Absolution by Alice McDermott owned
13. The House of Broken Bricks by Fiona Williams owned
14. The Fraud by Zadie Smith owned
15. Penance by Eliza Clark owned
16. Land of Milk and Honey by E Pam Zhang owned

Next up The House of Broken Bricks

Books Added in 2024

January books 1-31
https://www.librarything.com/topic/357215#8360403

February books 32-73
https://www.librarything.com/topic/358698#8432568

March books 74-104
https://www.librarything.com/topic/359405#8476551

105. Rachel Ray by Anthony Trollope
106. He Knew He Was Right by Anthony Trollope
107. The Museum of Innocence by Orhan Pamuk
108. The Bookbinder of Jericho by Pip Williams
109. A Hero Born by Jin Yong
110. The Dream of Enlightenment by Anthony Gottlieb
111. A Short History of Decay by E.M. Cioran
112. Not a River by Selva Almada
113. Kairos by Jenny Erpenbeck
114. The Wager by David Grann
115. The Unwilling by John Hart
116. The Soulmate by Sally Hepworth
117. Ripley Under Ground by Patricia Highsmith
118. Justice : What's the Right Thing to Do? by Michael J Sandel
119. You Can't Stop the Sun from Shining by Sonny Bill Williams
120. Undiscovered by Gabriela Wiener
121. A Decent World by Ellen Hawley
122. The Ascent by Stefan Hertmans
123. Acts of Desperation by Megan Nolan
124. Crooked Plow by Itamar Vieira Junior
125. Sarn Helen by Tom Bullough
126. The World and All it Holds by Aleksandar Hemon
127. A Short History of Europe by Simon Jenkins
128. The Dark Tide by Simon McCleave
129. My Russia : War or Peace? by Mikhail Shishkin
130. The Need for Roots by Simone Weil

Book Stats

Books Read : 37
Pages Read in completed books : 11,012 pp

Longest book : The Way We Live Now : 766 pp
Shortest book : Field Work : 56 pp
Mean book length : 297.62 pp

Books written by men : 120
Books written by women : 17

Non-Fiction : 12
Fiction : 19
Poetry : 3
Thriller : 2
Drama : 1

1870's : 1 book
1880's : 1 book
1900's : 1 book
1920's : 1 book
1930's : 1 book
1950's : 7 books
1960's : 1 book
1970's : 2 books
1980's : 1 book
2000's : 5 books
2010's : 6 books
2020's : 10 books

UK Authors : 20
US Authors : 9
Ireland Authors : 4
France Authors : 1
Malaysia Authors : 1
New Zealand Authors : 1
Sweden Authors : 1

Nobel Winners : 1 (79/120)
Carnegie Medal Winners : 1 (6th overall)
1001 Books : 4

Read : 37 books
Added : 130 books

Change to TBR : +93

Welcome to my 11th thread.

Happy new thread Paul!!!

Happy new thread!

>15 Owltherian: Thank you Lily

>16 amanda4242: And thanks too, dear Amanda

>17 PaulCranswick: You are very Welcome Paul!

Happy new thread, Paul!

...not The Winter Queen and her Freddie?

Enjoy the weekend-ahead's reads, PC.

>19 bell7: Thank you, Mary.

>20 richardderus: I was a little at odds with myself as how to introduce the Thirty Years War, RD.

Have a great weekend.

Happy new thread Paul!

>22 quondame: Thank you, dear Susan.

Obviously *I* should rule Bohemia. Or maybe Bookemia.

Happy new thread, Paul!

>24 ArlieS: Hahaha and why not, indeed, Arlie!

Happy new thread Paul.

>1 PaulCranswick: A reminder that animals are also innocent casualties of war.

>26 humouress: Yes and a fair bit of deforestation too by the look at all the timber pikes.

Nice to see you, neighbour.

>26 humouress:
It is estimated that almost as many horses died at the Battle of Gettysburg as did people. About 1,000 more people died than horses, but it is close.

>28 benitastrnad: The loss of life in battle cannot be limited to the combatants alone - often the habitats which formed the venues is virtually destroyed

>29 PaulCranswick:
Fortunately the number of civilians killed in that battle was quite low considering their proximity to the battle. It is the 20th century wars in which civilians became the main _targets.

>30 benitastrnad: I don't know about the main _targets although the blitzkreigs by Germany and our air assaults on Dresden etc is a case in point certainly where they largely were. The acceptance of that euphemism "collateral damage" needs to be explored more as the line between civilian and combatant is increasingly blurred. With the use of human shields being a pretty terrible development in Gaza and elsewhere.

Happy New Thread , Paul! I am interested in Soldier, Sailor and I own it since my library only has an e copy . I’m not sure if I will get to it next. I’m currently reading a non Women’s Long List book, and I think I will read Brotherless Night next . My current ranking of the Women’s Longlist is on my thread .

Happy new thread, Paul!

>32 vancouverdeb: Thanks Deb. I have been following your progress as well on the Women's Prize books and there is some agreement between us, I see. I do think that overall my own alternative selections are proving more to my own taste.

>33 FAMeulstee: Thank you, Anita

BOOK #34



Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy
Date of Publication : 2023
Origin of Author : Ireland
Gender of Author : Female
Pages : 233 pp
Challenges : Women's Prize Longlist 6/16

I don't often cope well with stream of consciousness narratives but this one is absorbing.

An extended ode to the travails of motherhood and how the woman oftentimes shoulder's the burden - serves up the milk whilst the father gets the cream.

Some of this is difficult reading and rather exaggerates the hysteria of coping to make its point - effective though that point is.

Recommended but not the most enjoyable of the longlist and not quite the best, although I do expect it to shortlist.

Well into The Way We Live Now. Thought it might be relatively light relief after finishing v long Balzac novel and The Kingdom of Acre but although of course written in Trollope’s customary flowing prose I find I need regular breaks from the cast of unappealing characters. Not quite “The best lack all conviction, while the worst/Are full of passionate intensity,” but close enough. I recall that I actually gave up entirely on The Duke’s Children when it became clear that Lady Mabel Grex was going to end up single, poor, and bitter because of decisions on her part that struck me as perverse.

Happy new one, Paul.

Happy New Thread, Paul. I hope you are enjoying your weekend.

Happy new thread, Paul!

Happy new thread, Paul! I requested Soldier Sailor from my library back when the long list was revealed. I'm still waiting. Now that I've read your comments, I'm not at all eager to read it.
Have a lovely weekend!

>36 booksaplenty1949: I am making slow progress with it myself as I am reading it around my other books. Whilst admiration for Trollope's lovely style abounds the story and its characters has not really gripped me yet.

>37 jessibud2: Thank you

>41 PaulCranswick: The outcome of the railway scheme is fairly predictable and the men involved in it all contemptible. We may have some sympathy for Paul Montague, but Roger Carbury, the only man of integrity in the novel so far other than a bishop, assures us that he has violated some sort of code where Henrietta Carbury is concerned. So with the investment disaster looming, and who cares? we look for some interest on the romantic side, but here we seem to have men unwilling to make the slightest effort and women with the apparent emotional IQs of a flock of hens. Frustrating.

>38 msf59: Thanks Mark. So far so good.

>39 Kristelh: Thank you, Kristel.

>40 Carmenere: I wouldn't be put off by my comments, Lynda, but it was not really my thing as I like to be told a story.

>42 booksaplenty1949: Yes, I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is as if he couldn't make up his mind as to exactly what he wanted to do with the novel.

>44 PaulCranswick: That seems to be his own assessment, in his Autobiography.

>45 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha that is gratifying to know that I was able to divine his own thoughts on his creation.

WAR = Men Kill Men over Property. Over and Over, the same murders.

^^^^

For more enlightening reading, try the eye-opening THE WOMAN'S BIBLE by Elizabeth Cody Stanton!

>46 PaulCranswick: As long as you don’t claim he’s communicating with you from the Beyond via your cat.

Happy new thread, Paul!

>47 m.belljackson: Not sure of the reference or relevance, Marianne, but the female of the species have been spared some of the horrors of combat and it isn't one of the issues that quite so many of them were steadfastly appealing for equality of opportunity for.

>48 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha, I don't believe in all that stuff and actually prefer dogs over cats!

>50 PaulCranswick: Thank you, Rhonda

I have read my 25th very close to 30!

>50 PaulCranswick: Historically it may have been true that the women on the winning side were spared the immediate horrors of war. For the women on losing sides, the horror often lasted the rest of their lives.

Happy new thread, Paul!

>50 PaulCranswick: Except for fundamentalist or brainwashed women, most women I know or have heard of, do not think war is a good solution:

here we are good friends again with Germany who nearly singled handedly destroyed the 20th century, with support from Japan and Italy.

Hiroshima.

Then the unredeemed horror of Vietnam.

^^^^^^^

No relevance or reference for The Woman's Bible, simply exciting new reading...

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/14592 Historically, when combat was more or less hand-to-hand, women were not of much use, and “co-ed” billeting arrangements would probably have produced a lot of problems. Women volunteered in arms factories etc on the “Home Front” and pinned white feathers on men who had not signed up. Now that technology is of more importance than physical strength in warfare many countries have women in combat roles. The idea that women are somehow pacifist by nature is unsupported by the historical record.

>52 Owltherian: So you are well on _target to the 75!

>53 quondame: Yes, certainly that is true.

>54 Familyhistorian: Thank you, Meg.

>55 m.belljackson: I think with respect that is a little sexist, Marianne. I don't think that I am in the minority as a man wholly abhorring war and its consequences. It isn't a female or male thing in my honest opinion.

>56 booksaplenty1949: Yes, I agree with that completely!

>58 PaulCranswick: How is it sexist to write that I do not know, nor have heard of any women, except the fundamentalist and brainwashed,

who do NOT think War is a good solution...? There is nothing in that statement about what any man thinks, pro or con.

>60 m.belljackson: No Marianne that was my point, you merely mention that women don't like war and don't mention men at all so the obvious implication being that war is a thing that is only sought by men. By omission that is the conclusion to be drawn otherwise what is the point?

At least at the start of The Great War, some British feminists were handing out white feathers to men who had not enlisted. I don't think women are less moved by jingoistic peer pressure, just less often brainwashed into thinking their value comes from putting their bodies on the fighting lines.

Gendered roles are surrounded with all sorts of emotional values,
Soldier or Princess, and assigned at birth gender is not always prophylactic against the appeals of any archetypal role.

I find high heel a bit less attractive than swords. But that might be because I've worn high heels and not had to swing my sword.

>62 quondame: I think the truth is that the vast majority of normal people irrespective of race, gender, sexuality, age and creed deplore war and its consequences - the fact that a significant minority can be whipped up by politicians and propaganda to set people against each other is a universal ill.

>61 PaulCranswick: So I can't make a statement about what women feel without implicating men = huh?

>64 m.belljackson: You are free to make whatever statements you want to make here, Marianne. Always welcome. But the reader will draw his/her own conclusions as to the point they think you were making.

Happy New Thread!

>66 SilverWolf28: Thank you, Silver.

,>64 m.belljackson: Wars exist because someone thinks they are good solutions to certain problems.
Women do not think wars are good solutions to certain problems.
Therefore wars exist because men think they are good solutions to certain problems.
This is the only logical conclusion to your statement in 55 above.
I do agree that on the personal level women rarely use physical force to achieve an end, because they don’t stand much chance of success. If physical force is the only reasonable option they generally look for someone bigger and stronger to exercise it on their behalf. It’s a practical reality, not moral superiority.

>68 booksaplenty1949: Warmongering is not something that is unique to the gender in my opinion. Mrs Thatcher was certainly a case in point and sent the flotilla off to the South Atlantic without any hesitation when most of the men around her would fain have paused. It is quite noticeable to me that the majority of the pro Hamas protestors shown on US campuses shout for Death to Israel and Death to the US appear to be female.

That said historically it cannot be sensibly argued that war and especially its conduct has been a male preserve.

Happy new thread Paul, it sure is zipping along and you have already passed my book numbers by. Well done to you!

>70 mdoris: Thank you, Mary. I am in a good place posting wise at the moment. xx

>61 PaulCranswick: Just weighing in:

'By omission that is the conclusion to be drawn' To be honest, while it is certainly an inference, it is not the only conclusion. If you said, for argument's sake, 'Muslims don't eat pork' it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else does. So, while her statement could have been worded better, her opinion isn't actually sexist.

>72 humouress: Ok, Nina, I can accept that but I do think that when an inference is made against men the benefit of doubt is offered more than when it is the other way round.

Marianne is my friend and will, I hope, always be so, but that doesn't mean that we are not going to have healthy differences of opinion oftentimes. It is one of the reasons I like her so much!

Happy new thread Paul, have a wonderful Sunday!

>72 humouress: Except that if something exists, and human beings are responsible for it, but not women, there’s only one logical conclusion: men are responsible. Not every man, but still—only men. And of course “Moslems don’t eat pork” is more accurately expressed as “Moslems are not supposed to eat pork,” because I am sure there are lots of exceptions to the first statement.
The moral superiority of women is a concept that arose in Victorian times, presumably to reconcile women to their restriction to the domestic sphere, where they could nevertheless, the idea went, exert great influence by exemplifying purity, self-sacrifice, patient endurance etc. etc. There were women leading Women’s Anti-Suffrage Leagues in many countries in the early 20thC, making the argument that women were superior to partisan politics.
Women’s contribution on the “Home Front” in WW I was a big factor in their ultimately being given the vote.

>74 SirThomas: Thank you dear fellow and the same to you.

>75 booksaplenty1949: You are certainly right on the "Moslems don't eat pork" bit. I don't partake myself but I know some who profess to the religion who do. Conversely I enjoy gin & tonic and single malt whiskey which many other Muslims would frown upon.

BOOK #35



The People of Hemso by August Strindberg
Date of Publication : 1877
Origin of Author : Sweden
Gender of Author : Male
Pages : 152 pp
Challenges : 1001 Books / 150Y Challenge 36/150

This is a tale of the land and the sea; of fishery and farm. But more of greed and petty treachery; of lust and belonging.

Set on the fictional island of Hemso and written at a time that Strindberg was enforced to be away from his native land this tells of the intrigues and jockeying when Carlsson arrives at the homestead to take up the reins of farm manager and seems hellbent on obtaining more than that for himself.

Mildly recommended.

>75 booksaplenty1949: The Cairo Trilogy certainly disabused me of the idea that one could make any blanket statement about Moslems and alcohol.

>78 booksaplenty1949: Certainly true in Egypt and amongst the Malays of my generation.

>79 PaulCranswick: I think that alcohol use is in the crosshairs generally, for health reasons. Every day I seem to see an article on the bad effects of even moderate alcohol consumption. Restaurant menus have “mocktails” and non-alcoholic beer. Alcohol sales are slowly declining, and younger people are less likely to drink. Those of us who remember when every living room, restaurant table, and doctor’s waiting room had an ashtray know how social trends can be reversed in a relatively brief space of time.

A "Why do Men like War" Search gives a variety of wise and wiseacre answers, from innate male aggression and onward...

ps - There IS a difference = try joining a Warrior Cult when you are 8 months pregnant.

>80 booksaplenty1949: There is still ample evidence to suggest that relatively small doses of alcoholic beverages can be beneficial to health (red wine especially) but the problem is that most people have proven incapable of controlling their intake.

>81 m.belljackson: This is an interesting article on misconceptions on women leaders and conflict:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2022/03/08/sheryl-sandberg-says-female-...

>82 m.belljackson: There is no possibility of this male joining a warrior cult even though my own stomach may suggest signs of advanced pregnancy.

>83 PaulCranswick: Got to wonder how many recent female heads of state were soldiers...

>84 PaulCranswick: Maybe a Vegetarian Warrior cult would reduce that tummy...

>85 m.belljackson: I don't think that there are many of either sexes with military experience these days, Marianne, in the West at least.

>86 m.belljackson: Hahaha sign me up!

>83 PaulCranswick: I think my approach is summed up in the joke about how you don’t actually live longer—-it just seems longer. “Ne quid nimis” is my motto, except for books, of course.

It seems to me that in the past, most wars were caused by, conducted by, and perpetuated by, men. That is because men were the power structure. Women were disenfranchised by men and had political power. This is true as far back as when Lysistrata when women had to use one of the few leverageable items they had in their arsenal to stop the fighting. Women and children were also the least mobile members of society and so, most often made up the bulk of the collateral damage in wars. In the 20th century they also became the main _targets of war, that they most often do not cause, because they are still not in positions of power politically. For these reasons, most of the time, the blame for war can be laid at the feet of men.

Earlier you mentioned Mrs. Thatcher. I think she went to war because she had to prove that she was one of the boys. She was always in a confrontational situation because she had to prove herself to the boys. They way you do that is to outboy the boys. It was a very different kind of political world for her than it will be for women in the future.

Would women nowadays do things differently? That is something that will be decided in the future. Probably a future that none of us will live to see, as women are so slowly being allowed into positions of political power.

In-the-meantime, I think that men need to accept the blame for being warmongers. If they don't like that title then they should do something about it.

>88 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha indeed.

>89 benitastrnad: Gender stereotypes are becoming a bit tired, Benita. There is no need for anyone to accept the blame for wrong done by previous generations - we are supposed to learn from the lessons of history not be bound and shamed by them. I am not a warmonger and I have absolutely nothing to do with anyone - man or woman - who in the past was.

>90 PaulCranswick: Hey, men can agree to be labelled war-mongers, and also claim the credit for virtually every advance in exploration, science, and scholarship. Or we can just agree to share praise and blame as fellow human beings.

Happy new thread, Paul!

>31 PaulCranswick: I’ve been reading about Holland’s Eighty Year War against Spain. Starting in 1568. Unfortunately there’s nothing new under the sun, when it comes to war. Lots of civilian casualties, whole cities being razed, looted, and people murdered as a weapon in the war.
It’s quite interesting to read about this conflict as it has been so important in forming our country. Also a war between Protestant and Catholic.

>91 booksaplenty1949: I would say the latter is more sustainable.

>92 EllaTim: Yes, I am just starting reading about the Thirty Year War too, Ella. Fascinating, I must say.

>90 PaulCranswick:
I don't think gender stereotypes are tired at all. I think that there is always truth in them, that's why they are alive and well. Just as there are always exceptions in them as well. But they are stereotypes because - in general they are true. That is why they are so easily recognized. The simple fact is that women aren't and weren't in a position to affect war. They simply didn't have the political power to do so. They might have been the objects of mob hatred or love, but that doesn't translate into being able to take a country to war. Nobody to blame for this one but the men. And maybe Catherine the Great and a few others. So few women leaders in the world until the modern era. Sad isn't it.

The issue, however, is whether when women have power, do they exercise it in a gentler, more pacific way? Lack of opportunity is not the same as moral superiority.

>94 benitastrnad: Of course you don't, Benita. If men are to blame for everything bad in the world because they have had all the power then ergo all the progress too must be credited to them. It isn't as simple as that and the world isn't as simple as that either. People have gone to war for many things including women (see the causes of the Trojan war for example). Boudicca, Maud and Queen Elizabeth I are examples of English leaders of their day who certainly didn't shy away from a fight. The Lancastrian side in the War of the Roses was lead ably in terms of strategy by the mother of the hapless Henry VI.
It isn't "nobody but the men", it is who was in power. The working class were disenfranchised as a group and the men of that group were sent to die in wars by their usually (but not always) male leaders. Historically it cannot be argued that men were by and large in power but that needn't be the case anymore.

>95 booksaplenty1949: 100% correct. And the answer based on imperfect and still insufficient data does not lead to a much different outcome.

*sigh* Two days away from LT and your new thread is at 100 messages. 😂

>98 drneutron: Sorry Jim!

I somehow missed you starting a new thread. Happy new one!

>100 figsfromthistle: Thank you, Anita. xx

>89 benitastrnad: 'outboy the boys' 😄 That's what I admired about Mrs T, that she held her own in such a male dominated field. (Paul, who is a bit older than me and from the North of England and thus more negatively affected by her political decisions, isn't a fan of hers.)

>102 humouress: Your assessment of my views of Mrs T is accurate, Nina. Not particularly with her jingoism to be fair but more in relation to the devastation she wrought upon the industrial base of the country especially in my Northern shires due to her antipathy to the unionised culture.

The Way We Live Now is picking up (I’m about a third of the way in). Also enjoying The Prince and the Page. Interesting to consider that Victorian writers did not make much distinction between “literary” and “popular” fiction; well-told stories were expected to draw in readers across the spectrum—-even non-readers, who heard weekly numbers read aloud by literate friends or family members. The Prince and the Page differs from Yonge’s adult novels more in its shorter length and focus on family rather than romantic relationships than in any stylistic alteration intended to make it “child-friendly.”

>96 PaulCranswick: Aside from Medicine and hospitals, what constitutes progress?

>83 PaulCranswick: Yet one more reason not yet mentioned why Men Like/Love War:

"BORED by peacetime army life in France, Leon Faye won a transfer to North Africa...

passed examination...to the highly competitive war college, the Ecole Superieure de Guerre."

>94 benitastrnad: I believe there are statistical tendencies in gender - some things that a random male is more likely to do than a random female, and vice versa. Some of these are perhaps in part innate rather than culturally learned.

There are also gender roles that are culturally enforced. Doing whatever while female while get you punished; doing it while male will get you praised, and vice versa.

Then there are gender stereotypes. That's when someone looks between my legs to determine my personality, talents, and preferences. In the extreme case, they forcefully treat me as if their beliefs were 100% correct, ignoring any claims I may make to the contrary. In the mild case, they harp on and on and on about my gender, as a class, reminding me incessantly about whatever trait they've determined we all have, regardless of whether or not I have it.

Finally, there's the case that makes me want to sing Gilbert and Sullivan's "For he himself has said it, and it's greatly to his credit, that he is an Englishman". Someone is taking credit for attributes ascribed to a category they belong to.

With regard to women causing or contributing to wars - in some places and times, they've been major forces in that direction.

Read e.g. the Norse sagas - part of the woman's gender roles of that time and place was to egg on her menfolk to take revenge for any past slight to the family. Sons were raised to attempt to avenge their fathers, even when everyone knew all they were going to succeed in doing was getting themselves killed. Men who didn't want to continue the feud were basically nagged into it.

This is not to say that women were the major causes of wars, or of continued feuding, at any time in history. But I imagine someone skilled at cherry picking could make such a case. They certainly have individually caused lots of men to take part in conflicts that killed them. (Consider the "white feather" ladies in various relatively recent conflicts.)

In any case, it doesn't matter. Is Paul a bigger contributor to wars than you are? Are you a bigger contributor than he is? Or are both of you in fact in much the same position, in spite of presumably having different things between your legs.

>105 m.belljackson: Invention of the printing press. Universal free primary education. The end of legal slavery. For starters.

>104 booksaplenty1949: I need to get back to it as I have been looking to finish three other books I have on the go before contributing to it. I do think that the use of periodicals to serialize the novels tended towards a blurring of literary and popular and surely literary fiction could be exciting and plot driven.

>105 m.belljackson: Really Marianne? I have no intention of listing the contributions towards progress of the respective sexes - As the father of two daughters and one son and being equally proud of all three of them, I firmly believe that all three of them have no limitations placed upon them from preventing them from achieving whatever they want in life, other than themselves.

>106 m.belljackson: Gender roles historically were clearly more set in stone than they are today.

>107 ArlieS: That is a very fair and well reasoned post, Arlie. Hormonally the two sexes will tend towards different outcomes.

>108 booksaplenty1949: I can think of one or two more, too!

>108 booksaplenty1949:>110 In the interest of not clouding up Paul's thread, I will only list the start (of what could easily be expanded) to constitute
near zero progress:

1. Food and Agriculture (poisons)
2. Shelter (mansions vs tents and sidewalks)
3. Clothing (reduce and share)
4. Transportation (Gas and Poisons in place of Cures for diseases)
5. Rich vs Poor (way obvious)
6. People (overpopulation)
7. Illegal slavery (notably for women)
8. Animals (hideous cruelty)
9. ...

>112 m.belljackson: As someone who grew up as a committed socialist I can tell you that these issues have little or nothing to do with gender disparities but relate to the haves and have nots. Basically to issues of class. The poor against the monied classes.

>113 PaulCranswick: I could argue that nearly all of those has to do with Gender disparity, but it's your thread.

>114 m.belljackson: I have no problem with your espousing your opinions here, Marianne, as long as anyone has a right to respond with their own. Personally I believe that the wokeist obsession with trying to see everything through the lens of race and/or gender is a harmful development as it seeks or tends to divide rather than bring us together.

Another new thread, Paul? And already over 100 posts. Well, happy new one!

>116 atozgrl: Thank you, Irene. I think this will be the last one of April at least!

>111 PaulCranswick: The wheel has been very helpful. Also the match. And soap. Always amazed that the Romans, who were really good with roads and bridges, cleaned their bodies by pouring oil on their skin and scraping it off with a sort of blade. And their clothes by pounding them with rocks.

>118 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha yes and I find flint extremely awkward when I'm shaving.

>117 PaulCranswick: I think this will be the last one of April at least!

*snort*

And my current thread will be my last of 2024...possible but improbable absent disaster.

>120 richardderus: I'm more likely to be right than you are dear fellow.

>119 PaulCranswick: Off-topic, but I also gather that Romans (and Greeks), rather than knocking on a door with their knuckles for admission, kicked it. A strange choice for people who wore leather sandals. “Pallida mors aequo pulsat pede.”

>122 booksaplenty1949: That is true, I believe. Contrary bunch those Romans.

I have rechecked my 1001 Books lists and I think that my running number is now 368/1316 books.

>121 PaulCranswick: A week left in April...you average forty posts a day on your threads...you haven't had a four-hundred post thread because they get so cumbersome...so one more in April.

Betcha.

Checking in on you, brother.

Happy whatever!

>125 richardderus: Hahaha let's see dear fellow.

>126 alcottacre: Lovely to see you, Sis.

>109 PaulCranswick: I suspect Paul,idealism aside, that your children - especially your daughters - may encounter limitations out in the wide world. Let's hope not though.

>115 PaulCranswick: Oh my goodness, yes. I agree with you.

>120 richardderus: If you continue to post Jell-O pictures, it may well be.

>128 humouress: I am an optimistic person, Nina, who always looks for the best in people. My girls have thus far certainly been given an equal start in life with Kyran and all three are following their own paths without interference but with plenty of support still.

Paul, is it bad that I haven't eaten all day and it's about 5:51pm? I feel like it is

>130 Owltherian: Fasting is actually pretty good for health, Lily, but should be planned and not just a case of starving yourself.

It was not planned and i do it somewhat often

>132 Owltherian: Intermittent fasting serves me well to be honest. I will do two weeks of eating last at 8.00pm and I won't eat anything until 12.00 pm the following day. Water and unsugared tea/coffee allowed.

THE WOMEN'S PRIZE SHORTLIST HAS JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED

Interestingly I already own all the shortlist.
The two books I have placed lowest have made the list
The two book I liked the most have also made the list
Two of the shortlist I have still to read.

The Wren, The Wren by Anne Enright
Brotherless Night by V.V. Ganeshanathan
Restless Dolly Maunder by Kate Grenville
Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad
Soldier Sailor by Claire Kilroy
River East, River West by Aube Rey Lescure

>134 PaulCranswick: Still have not read any of them. . .*sigh* The last time I checked, my local library did not have a single title on the Longlist, yet alone the Shortlist.

I’ve read 1 of them, The Wren, The Wren. I did not like it much.

>135 alcottacre: I am surprised that they don't have any of them, Stasia.

>136 Kristelh: I didn't like it either. I have read four of the shortlist and would rate them in this order thus far, Kristel:

1. Brotherless Night
2. Soldier Sailor
3. The Wren, The Wren
4. Enter Ghost

So much for freedom of speech:

>138 PaulCranswick: Haha, thats kinda funny

>139 Owltherian: I think so. We should all stick up for broccoli.

>140 PaulCranswick: yeah, its quite good

Happy New Thread my Friend!!!

>138 PaulCranswick: Clearly unreasonable bias. Broccoli is delicious! My favorite veg!

The Wikipedia article on the famous New Yorker cartoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_say_it%27s_spinach (I say it’s spinach, and I say the hell with it) notes that at the time (1928) broccoli was a new addition to American tables, having been introduced by immigrant Italian growers. Perhaps this suggested “Matt”’s choice of vegetable.

>4 PaulCranswick: Happy new thread!

>141 Owltherian: We shouldn't allow any bullying by root vegetables!

>142 hredwards: Thank you, dear Harold.

>143 justchris: Belle, my youngest is with you Chris. My own favourite would be that old staple the humble carrot.

>144 booksaplenty1949: Quite possibly. I don't recall ever eating broccoli until I was an adult.

>145 ocgreg34: Thank you Greg. Always a pleasure to have you drop by.

>147 PaulCranswick: We recall the statement that the British only have three vegetables, and two of them are cabbage. I assume this was a reference to Brussels sprouts, a vegetable my father, stationed in England during WW II, came home determined never to let pass his lips again.

>149 booksaplenty1949: I am a village boy so our staples growing up were carrots, cauliflower, turnip, Brussels sprouts and yes cabbage. My brother loves sprouts and I don't but Hani stirfrys them with beef bacon and they become amazingly edible!

i have been making broccoli soup and it is a winner. Some onion/shallots, celery, potatoes, broccoli/chicken stock, cook and buzz with buzzer wand. Add a bit of cream and of course S&P. It's yummy! Hi Paul!

>150 PaulCranswick: I think that back in the day sprouts were allowed to reach the size of small cabbages and lost all their sweetness, especially when boiled within an inch of their lives. Walnut-sized and roasted or stir-fried they’re a whole different veg.

>151 mdoris: I take it a “buzzer wand” is some sort of portable blender and not a sex toy.

>153 booksaplenty1949: Weird question but answer is "yes".

>151 mdoris: I like the sound of that, Mary! I am a lover of soups. All except mushroom and cream of chicken.

>152 booksaplenty1949: Indeed they are. They seem to soak up the flavour of anything sauteed with them.

>153 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha the mind boggles! I just spat my coffee all over my laptop.

>154 mdoris: I knew what you meant, Mary!

>154 mdoris: Sorry. Anything for a cheap laugh. Unfortunately for you I received reinforcement from our Threadmeister.

I've also read three from the shortlist, Enter Ghost, and The Wren, Wren , which I didn't care for, but at least I have read them. I've started - barely - Brotherless Nights, and own the last two, so I will get to them.

>157 booksaplenty1949: No worries, I thought it was funny too!

>157 booksaplenty1949: Yes, but unlike the majority of my peers I have to admit to having a dirty mind!

>158 vancouverdeb: I am a little advanced this year, Deb, as I have already read four of the shortlist and have the other two waiting. I want to read one of them this month and the other early next month.
I agree with you on Enter Ghost and The Wren, The Wren, but we seem to be in the minority. My own view is that, in a year with less trouble in the Middle East, Hammad's book would not have been close to the shortlist.

>159 mdoris:

>159 mdoris: Sorry I can't see the image.

>162 mdoris: I can see it ok, Mary, but I will try to reload it. It is the face of a little boy smiling.

>150 PaulCranswick: I never liked Brussels sprouts for most of my life. Then we were visiting family over the holidays a few years ago, and my SiL served roasted Brussels sprouts with bacon, and it was delicious. Now I roast Brussels sprouts at home all the time, usually pan roasted. I don't often add the bacon, but they're still good.

>164 atozgrl: I agree, Irene. The method of cooking that humble sprout changes it from abhorrent to delicious.

I head into the last six days of April with a number of books on the go and to be started which gets my reading somewhat back on track.

The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope
Five Children and It by E Nesbit
The Thirty Years War by CV Wedgwood
The Details by Ia Genberg
Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger
River East, River West by Aube Rey Lescure
The House of Broken Bricks by Fiona Williams
War and Turpentine by Stefan Hertmans

8 books and I will struggle but hopefully my next few days will be productive. 5 books contribute to the 105Y challenge and 3 to the War Room Challenge.

>165 PaulCranswick: But....but... Brussel sprouts have been re-engineered to not taste nearly so bitter - or so much - in the last decades. This is not that sprout that had to be boiled/seamed and then fried up with butter and breadcrumbs to make a decent side dish. I like to think I liked them back in the day, but really they'd succumbed to some serious alchemy by the time I put them on my plate.

>167 quondame: They are now considered something of a delicacy over here along with asparagus!
My favourite vegetable nowadays is probably lady fingers or okra.

>146 PaulCranswick: Not at all!

>169 Owltherian: Good morning, Lily

>170 PaulCranswick: Good morning, Paul. How is your day going so far?

>170 PaulCranswick: Busy day almost over here, Lily. Went well though.

Thats nice, im waiting for lunch in which is at 11 something pm over here

Count me as a fan of both brussels sprouts and cabbage. Also many other vegetables, but not okra or asparagus.

I generally bake the brussels sprouts, often with some kind of onion and/or tahini. (Credit to an old friend's girlfriend for that recipe. She was German, IIRC, but who knows where she got her recipe.)

I pretty much love all of the cruciferous vegetables. Like Arlie, I am not a fan of okra - which is tantamount to a heinous crime since I am married to a Louisiana man.

I use my Instant Pot for cooking my Brussels sprouts.

Happy whatever, Paul!

Hi Paul, a belated Happy New Thread, mate. Not the result we wanted or possibly expected at Lords. The first round of matches back with the Dukes ball still produced some decent scores along with some good performances with the ball by the pace men.

>173 Owltherian: Lunch at 11 pm?

>174 ArlieS: Brussels Sprouts baked with tahini, Arlie? I must ask the boss to look into that.

>175 alcottacre: I don't know why but Okra fried in spicy sambal is wonderful.

>176 johnsimpson: So much, John, for having two of the world's best batsmen added to your line-up. Root in particular has been disappointing. Ben Coad has performed as he always does but the rest of the bowling doesn't look like bowling teams out twice.

>178 PaulCranswick: I have never had Spicy Sambal and likely never will as no one in my house is fond of spicy food at all. I would probably try it if I could ever find some to try as I like spicier foods more than the rest of my family :)

>179 alcottacre: One day, if and when we meet up, Stasia, I will make sure that Hani brings some for you.

I think Okra fried spicy is probably the only way to eat Okra. I also heard that okra is best eaten when it is hot and not allowed to cool. I really have spent mostly avoiding eating okra.

>181 Kristelh: Kristel could this not change your mind?

Hmm, not sure. The ones I ate were made by my daughter in law. She chopped them very fine and she fried them. They were very good. I think she said it was an Indian dish.

>183 Kristelh: Yes it is a staple in Indian cooking, they normally throw some eggs into the mix too.

>181 Kristelh: That's at least edible...but the very, very best okra on the planet is pickled Talk o' Texas brand.

Debate settled.

What an image! We’re finally all together in some congenial spot, and books are taking a back seat to okra vs Brussels sprouts.

>185 richardderus:, I would try that!

>187 Kristelh: You really should...so delish.

>185 richardderus: Yes please!

>186 booksaplenty1949: And all is well with the world.....well ok maybe not.

>187 Kristelh: Me too!

>188 richardderus: I'm already converted to the delights of okra and I am sure that those would be a crowning glory, RD.

>190 PaulCranswick: Very much so, in hot form; less so, mild, though still better than culinary preparations. Perfect snacktastic crunch.

>191 richardderus: Pretty healthy too I would hazard.

>192 PaulCranswick: If pickled, then hugely salty, but these are hardly alone in that dietary sin. Iodine makes my nose run and itch, but I soldier on...too tasty not to.

>193 richardderus: I used to say that the iodine in gin and tonic was an essential part of my tropical diet considering its protective qualities against malaria!

>194 PaulCranswick: I can see that, but Long Island's shores are, as yet, free from Aedes aegyptica. Long may this be so, I don't think I could survive malaria on top of the rest of my issues.

>194 PaulCranswick: You may be thinking of quinine, not iodine.

Here's the next readathon: https://www.librarything.com/topic/360348

Okra is another food where it makes a huge difference how it's prepared. The first time I ever had it was after I moved south, and I got it on a buffet line. I guess it was boiled. It was slimy and one of the worst things I ever ate. Later I had it fried, and it's delicious that way. It's also great in gumbo. And I agree about pickled okra >185 richardderus: , I love that too.

>185 richardderus: Brought to you by the man selling Jell-o with olives and cheese in it on his thread for all he's worth. 'Nuff said.

I grew up in Africa, just south of the Sahara where eating vegetables was ... an adventure. Moving to the UK in the eighties and discovering frozen baby peas - O.M.G! Life changing. And since then, most veggies are, at the very least, palatable. My kids love broccoli (but not cauliflower). Brussels sprouts I was introduced to at school where, of course, they were cooked to extinction. But if you make them at home, even boiled, they come out quite nicely (but maybe >167 quondame: Susan has something there). Okra, I like too. I prefer a Sri Lankan curry to >182 PaulCranswick: but they're also lovely thinly sliced crossways, tossed in salt and chilli powder and deep fried - people who don't like the 'sliminess' may prefer that. Treat bitter gourd (also thinly sliced) and aubergines (diced small) the same way - sinfully yummy! Of course, at the moment almost all veggies are banned to me :0(

ETA: for clarity

>150 PaulCranswick: I grew up with broccoli but not brussel sprouts or okra. I have learned to love brussel sprouts, especially braised. Haven't had enough exposure to okra and not willing to gamble with it at home, therefore my attempts at gumbo have lacked that certain something.

>168 PaulCranswick: Ooh! Asparagus! Another favorite. Morels and asparagus make spring a tasty time of year.

>199 humouress: I'm with your kids for favoring broccoli and not caring much for cauliflower. I've been trying more recipes with cauliflower, but more to try diversifying not because I am a fan. So many people have told me they don't like broccoli because it's bitter, but to me it's always a fairly sweet veg. So I think it must be a genetic taste receptor thing like the soap taste of cilantro for unfortunate people. Not for me. I love cilantro too.

Freshly steamed spinach was a revelation after a childhood of canned spinach (ick!). It's funny the differences between what we're exposed to as children vs what we come to love as adults. And then we have the foods that remain lifelong favorites.

I've liked brussel sprouts from my childhood, Paul, believe it or not. My sister in law makes the baked ones with bacon and I quite like those too. I like asparagus, even canned asparagus. My dad used to enjoy canned asparagus on toast - he had slightly British taste buds, as he also liked canned beans on toast and even- yuck! rice pudding. I never cook okra, but my same sister in law that bakes the brussel sprouts does, and I like it.

Whoa, I remember that my father had such a limited variety of vegetables he would eat, lettuce, carrots, celery, for uncooked and peas, green beans, and Brussels sprouts for cooked - well lima beans and potatoes & corn if you count them as vegetables and not starches. There was cooked cabbage, but I can't eat that at all. Spinach, broccoli, zucchini, and snow peas and more were all restaurant introductions.

>195 richardderus: Lucky RD. We have just had a bit of an issue here with an increase in dengue cases due to standing water.

>196 booksaplenty1949: Indeed so, quinine (iodine didn't quite look right when I typed it).

>197 SilverWolf28: Thank you Silver

>198 atozgrl: You are absolutely right in that the method of cooking makes a big difference.

>199 humouress: Yes to bitter gourd sliced thin and fried in spices.....fantastical!

Hahaha on the jell-o!

>200 justchris: I am another who doesn't much care for cauliflower and I don't care for melted cheese on top of vegetables either.

>201 vancouverdeb: Hey Deb, what's wrong with rice pudding?!! I don't dislike the Ambrosia tinned stuff but of course the real McCoy is a wonderful dish. My mum's oven baked rice pudding with nutmeg was a thing of beauty.

>202 quondame: For me it depends on the variety of cabbage. The Savoy is my favourite.

>177 PaulCranswick: omg i keep doing that i meant 11am T^T, its from 11:45am to 12:17pm

>207 Owltherian: I am attuned to times here, Lily, as I am usually around 12 hours ahead of you guys in North America.

>205 PaulCranswick:, >199 humouress: Nina is preaching the Gospel (so to speak) in eggplant/bitter gourd prep terms. Though I grew up eating eggplant/oyster casserole at Thanksgiving dinner, so that works for me, too.

There exists no cruciferous veg that I myownself won't eat, though I'd prefer not to be asked to eat kale unless it's been deep fried and salted as a chip.

I believe we should all bow down to the shrine of St. Clarence of Birdseye for the astonishing plethora of decent veg we can get year-round.

>209 richardderus: It is funny that the one veg that Belle simply refuses to tolerate is the humble garden pea. My sister in law will not touch onions and will not eat any food with onions in it.
Like RD there is very little plant food that I will not partake of, although I obviously have my favourites.

My last Friday of April in the bookstore this lunchtime:

125. Sarn Helen by Tom Bullough
126. The World and All it Holds by Aleksandar Hemon
127. A Short History of Europe by Simon Jenkins
128. The Dark Tide by Simon McCleave
129. My Russia : War or Peace? by Mikhail Shishkin
130. The Need for Roots by Simone Weil

Mixed bag:
Travel & history through Wales; a new-to-me crime series set on the Welsh island of Anglesey; a polemic on the state of Russia by one of its leading men of letters; an acclaimed novel by the Chicago residing Bosnian; a follow up to Simon Jenkins' brilliant A Short History of England and a work of philosophy from a groundbreaking French lady.

>208 PaulCranswick: Ah, yeah my dad right now is 7 hours ahead due to being in Romania.

>212 Owltherian: Not on the trail of the Count in his castle?

>213 PaulCranswick: He sent me a picture of the castle where Vlad The Impaler stayed!

>214 Owltherian: Hope he doesn't awake from his slumbers.

>215 PaulCranswick: haha, i hope not either. He's getting me and my two brothers some souvenirs

A little late to the vegetable talk, but a town near me, Lenexa, Kansas has a Spinach Festival every year. Apparently it was a big hub for spinach at one time. Don't know a lot about why. Just always thought it was interesting.

>216 Owltherian: At least he will definitely know your blood type!

>217 hredwards: I didn't realize that Popeye hailed from Kansas, Harold!

>218 PaulCranswick: Yep O+ or O- its either one lol, and he has killed plenty of people in his time.

>210 PaulCranswick: I love the onion and her family...but maize/corn in its cobbèd form shall ne'er pass my lips.

>211 PaulCranswick: Respectable haul for anyone else, but tiny by standards Cranswickian...is something wrong?

>219 Owltherian: I hope that you are referring to the Count and not your Dad!

>220 richardderus: RD, I am also a fan of onions, shallots and garlic and like you don't care for corn and the like.

About to move apartments (up 15 or so floors) which explains the annoyance of Hani with my weekly purchases, even of the more prosaic kind.

>221 PaulCranswick: My dad wouldnt hurt a fly, well unless needed and of course I'm talking about the count and not my father

>222 Owltherian: That is a relief.

>223 PaulCranswick: Yeah, he is one of the kindest souls i know

>221 PaulCranswick: OIC

There *had* to be a reason...at least this one makes sense! Though it's not like you and Hani and a couple buddies will be doin' the schleppin' so, really, what's the diff....

>224 Owltherian: I hope my kids sing my praises just as well, Lily.

>225 richardderus: I know dear fellow but I want an easy life so I must pacify her.

>226 PaulCranswick: I would hope so.

>218 PaulCranswick: Strange place for a sailor to hail from!

>206 PaulCranswick: I agree on the delights of good rice pudding.

>228 hredwards: I don't recall too many of his cartoons, Harold where he is actually on board any vessel.

>229 ArlieS: Deb managed to bring my late mum to my mind this morning and I could almost smell that wonderfully creamy dessert fresh from the oven. The canned one was a pale imitation but I'm glad, Arlie, that we both have savoured the real thing.

>230 PaulCranswick: Rice pudding is the one family recipe handed down in the oral tradition that I have, no measurements needed. Favorite comfort food when I'm feeling poorly, though tapioca pudding is a close second. I even have the crock and stand from childhood to make it in. I've stolen so many kitchen items from my mom over the years...

>231 justchris: Good to see another member of the Rice Pudding Appreciation Society, Chris!

Is this a cooking thread or a reading thread? It was all good, count me as a Brussel spout appreciator, but then you brought in rice pudding - that's almost as bad as the jello on Richard's thread.

I just don't like rice pudding, Paul. I am quite sure only my dad liked it. I don't care for raisins and the whole dish is not appealing. My mom cooked it for him specially when he was battling cancer, which he did succumb too. I think my mom made because he liked it and it had some nutrition to it, and it was something he would eat as he felt less well.

>233 Familyhistorian: I'm with you, Meg! No thanks to rice pudding.

Hi Paul - I just saw you checked in on me a couple of weeks ago, perhaps to see if I'd fallen into the looking glass, or some such thing. 😁 Still alive, just very busy with getting one house ready to sell, finishing the house we're building, and stitching when not doing the other two... although I've been obsessively listening to The Mists of Avalon while stitching (and driving, and mowing the yard), so there's one good book in there! Thanks for stopping by - hope you are well!

>138 PaulCranswick: Ha!

Well behind you in acquisitions this year (40) and my floor is grateful.

Have a lovely weekend Paul.

Good Morning/Afternoon Paul! Hope your day is going great i got more pictures from Romania (From my father) and i may post some.

>185 richardderus: I would try those because I love pickled vegetables, lol.

>211 PaulCranswick: Nice, Juan! My only pick ups this week are 2 of the 3 volumes of Stephen Runciman's History of the Crusades - volumes I and III - because evidently volume II cannot be found on this side of the pond. I had to order volume II from England in order to get a reasonably priced copy.

Happy whatever!

I hope you are having a good week end, Paul. Your thread has informed and entertained me for the past 20 minutes or so. I will try to keep up with your new one on a more frequent basis. ;-)

A. A. Milne weighs in https://allpoetry.com/Rice-Pudding

>166 PaulCranswick: Almost through the first vol (of two) in The Way We Live Now. Love/courtship plots gaining interest as they became more complicated. Three very different women displaying considerably more initiative and pertinacity than any of the men so far.

The May BAC thread is up!

https://www.librarything.com/topic/360372

>233 Familyhistorian: I'm not sure that I ever could describe my thread, Meg! Now salad jello is a step too far!

>234 vancouverdeb: I am shocked Deb! I have never had raisins in rice pudding. My mum's home made recipe involved dessert rice, cream/milk and nutmeg.

>235 PlatinumWarlock: Lovely to see you here, Lavinia, and I am always relieved to see my friends back posting.

>236 Caroline_McElwee: The Scottish First Minister could well fall because of his "hate crime bill" by all accounts. Your additions are still at 10 per month Caroline which few mortals will manage to read in a month.

>237 Owltherian: I had a pretty tiring day yesterday to be honest, Lily. I took Hani to Johor Bahru (about 180 miles South of KL) because she wanted to visit siblings, go to her Dad's grave and visit a sick relative. The traffic was awful going down and it took me six hours to get there and four to come back. I do feel ten hours of driving at my age!

Romanian photos would be interesting.

>238 alcottacre: You and I both on the pickled veg.

I am sure that you will like Runciman's books.

>239 Donna828: Lovely to see you here, Donna.

I always enjoy your thread too, dear lady. xx

>240 booksaplenty1949: What's the matter with Mary Jane?! I would give half the world to try my late mother's rice pudding once again.

>241 booksaplenty1949: I certainly feel that Trollope's female characters are better rounded usually than were Mr. Dickens'.

>242 amanda4242: I will head on off to have a look, Amanda. Thank you. x

BOOK #36



Five Children and It by E. Nesbit
Date of Publication : 1902
Origin of Author : UK
Gender of Author : Female
Pages : 237 pp
Challenges : 150Y Challenge 37/150

Back to more softer days. Days before two world wars. Days when Britain sat complacently in its self-appointed position at the top of the tree. Days when (in fiction of the day at least) even the poor were genteel.

Charming but dated as the five children meet a sand fairy and learn that you don't always get exactly what you wish for.

Mildly recommended as a period piece.

>243 PaulCranswick: I feel so betrayed, Paul! Rice definitely includes raisins! At least over here. In my family.

>249 justchris: Sorry Chris but I would have probably been in Deb's camp had raisins been thrown into the mix.

I can stomach them a little nowadays but it was a pet peeve when I was a kid.

>245 PaulCranswick: My phone is being a piece of crap and not letting me post them to the point i cant post them on here :/ ugh. Oh wow- that's a lot of driving. My dad is coming home tonight, and its about 5am there and he wont be back until late.

>205 PaulCranswick: No cauliflower? Oven roasted cauliflower, in olive oil and salted, is one of my all-time favorite things. Absolutely heavenly! But I'm with you on the melted cheese on top of vegetables. No thanks.

>246 PaulCranswick: I think the key word in the poem is “again.” And of course Mary Jane has no idea that one day this will be an irretrievable childhood pleasure.

>250 PaulCranswick: A family member calls them “grape carcasses” and shuns any dish containing them.

>247 PaulCranswick: As we know from Dickens’ bio he had some personal hang-ups where women were concerned.

>251 Owltherian: I'm hopeless with my own phone, Lily, so I am not best placed to give you advice.

>252 atozgrl: I don't know why but cauliflower was never a particular favourite of mine. I preferred it to turnip but the thought of cauliflower cheese was always a stomach turner. Hani also said the same as you - depends how it is cooked.

>253 booksaplenty1949: Yes, that sort of wholesome home cooked food is becoming a rarity. I am so thankful I have Hani who really believes in the value of home cooking.

>254 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha that is a very good description of the horrid little things. Belle loves them by the way and will often take them as a snack.

>255 booksaplenty1949: At the very least an emotionally abusive husband and a ladies man in its unfashionable sense of the word. His sentimentality can be best seen in the idealistic way he portrays most of the heroines in his fiction.

>256 PaulCranswick: My phone is locked because of parental control anyways, and I'm going to fill up my water bottle.

>259 Owltherian: I see. At least the water bottle isn't locked.

>260 PaulCranswick: Haha, if it was that would suck.

>150 PaulCranswick: I'm also in the 'no raisins' in my rice pudding please camp. I think my mum started leaving them out when all four of us left them on the plate. I make a mildly delicious rice pudding in the slow cooker once in a blue moon.
I became a fan of mango sticky rice when in Bangkok last year though making it at home does not compare.
I'm a fan of bread and butter pudding but hated it as a kid.

>262 avatiakh: Hani would definitely be flavour of the month if you visited here, Kerry. She makes wonderful bread and butter pudding as well as mango sticky rice being probably her go to dessert.
Raisins are awful.

>262 avatiakh: Mango sticky rice is the best! Unfortunately the restaurant that did the best, only served in season, closed not long after I was introduced to the dish.

Raisin aren't the worst, but I won't have them in cookies. Golden raisins baked in challah, I do like.

>264 quondame: Good mango sticky rice is something to behold.

>263 PaulCranswick: >264 quondame: The other Thai dessert that got us was the Thai dough sticks with pandan custard. I always got a double helping of the custard as we liked it so much. We bought from street hawkers in Chinatown, Bangkok. They had Michelin stars on their carts!

Raisins no, but I like currants. I've always loved rock cakes, my grandma used to make them until I took over.

>147 PaulCranswick: My own favourite would be that old staple the humble carrot.
Well I am truly shocked. Unless roasted and encased in caramalised honey, I'll generally leave carrots alone. (actually, grated is OK in a wrap or sandwich).

I'd generally go for a mushroom (technically fungi, but more vege than fruit imo)over most else.

>174 ArlieS: Brussels Sprouts baked with tahini - gets my approval! As does broccoli with crumbled blue cheese on top, roasted potato (or any type of potato really), and asparagus. YUM

>245 PaulCranswick: that is a massive drive!!! I felt over-cooked with my recent "long" drive Thursday and Friday! 2.5 hours each way of free-flowing traffic... that got me deep into the mountains.

>266 avatiakh: I love pandan, Kerry so I am sure to like that, although Hani told me she doesn't really care for that one.
My Gran used to love rock cakes.

>267 LovingLit: Carrot mashed with plenty of pepper and coriander is a delight, Megan.
Blue cheese on veggie.....mmm perhaps!
I love roast potatoes!

I got us home safely yesterday but today took its toll a wee bit. Hani wanted to eat dim sum (not a favourite of mine although I can have the sichuan soup) but afterwards wanted to buy headscarves for the birthdays of two of her friends. I hate shopping (other than in the bookstore) at the best of times but there is a sofa in the salon she was choosing them and needless to say I fast asleep in a matter of a moment.

More food commentaries
No “raisins” Love the apt description, yellow raisins are slightly better than the traditional raisin. Yes to currents.
Yes to cauliflower roasted or raw. No cheese, please.
Yes to Mango Sticky Rice!!!
Potatoes yes, Carrots yes.

>258 PaulCranswick: If Mrs Nickleby is an accurate picture of his mother one would not have to be a convinced Freudian to think that this may have been where the problems started. I can recommend Claire Tomalin’s Charles Dickens: A Life on this subject, and generally.
BTW, the egregious Flora Finching in Little Dorrit is apparently a real later-life portrait of the woman who was also the model for Dora in David Copperfield. Reality evidently broke through there.

>257 PaulCranswick: I think home cooking is going the way of home dress-making, knitting, etc. A hobby for those so inclined, but by no means a required skill.

>269 Kristelh: For me :
No to raisins; no to currants (but less so).
Cauliflower roasted maybe (drizzled with blue cheese I will try), raw no.

>270 booksaplenty1949: I have Tomalin's book on the shelves and will get to it soon.

>271 booksaplenty1949: I am really proud of Hani that she taught all three of my kids to fend for themselves in the kitchen / culinary arts.

I have a great recipe for cauliflower.( broken into florets, steamed and then sauteed with ginger, tomatoes and cumin, tumeric, and corriander seeds)

Hi Paul. I love that you have added "books completed" the posting league. It's kind of cool to track both stats. :-)

Chuckling at the conversation about home cooking. We do a fair bit of it (Prudence does the lion's share but I have my specialties). We have good friends who say "we don't cook," and we sometimes wonder "what do they eat, then?" Frozen dinners? Takeout? Chips and salsa? Maybe all of the above....

>274 torontoc: Ooh- i'll have to see if my dad will make that and let me help.

I generally love cooking and know how to make bread that everyone loves. I think i enjoy baking a little more though.

>243 PaulCranswick: Try your rice pudding with maple syrup...

>268 PaulCranswick: Cumin and carrots can be magic. Not mashed, but thick slices. An eastern Mediterranean preparation.

You've almost made it to May on this thread...but it will be a solid three-fifty before the first....

>275 EBT1002: Yes, I certainly know families where every meal is nuked, or takeaway food.

>274 torontoc: I do notice that when the cauliflower is broken into small florets it improves exponentially.

>275 EBT1002: It was essential for me that my life partner was a foodie. My Gran and then my mum were both wonderful cooks so someone who can do the same was always important for me. I can cook reasonably well but I do make an awful mess in doing so.

>276 Owltherian: I will also ask Erni / Hani to put it on our menu.

>277 m.belljackson: It isn't so readily available in Malaysia but I will have a look for maple syrup to try it out.

>278 quondame: Yes they are near magical bedfellows, Susan.

>279 richardderus: Don't forget, RD, I am half a day ahead of you but we will most probably pass 300 handily. Still on course for a 1 May new thread.

>280 booksaplenty1949: That is of course the new definition of the nuclear family!

>281 PaulCranswick: Yes, exactly! Cut the cauliflower into slices or break off the florets, toss with olive oil and some salt, then roast. One of the best things ever.

What a difference an Ocean makes!

Kids in Wisconsin and Vermont learn how to tap Maple Trees to safely take the sap,
which is boiled down to make syrup.

It then goes on to make Everything, from 100% Maple Candy, to pour over pancakes and waffles,
then on into salad dressings, marinades...ice cream!

I assume that for every gifted cook there are a dozen with no talent and/or interest in this household chore.

>285 atozgrl: Will try it, Irene. x

>286 m.belljackson: I do like maple syrup, Marianne, but I have rarely seen it in the shops here.

>287 booksaplenty1949: I'm not sure what the ratio is, but you are clearly on the right path there!

>289 PaulCranswick: I recall reading about a bakery which offered shoppers a choice of “apple pie like Mum used to make” and “apple pie like Mum wanted to make but couldn’t.” Latter outsold former by a considerable multiple.

>290 booksaplenty1949: Hahaha I don't know taste can be so subjective but I wouldn't swap certain dishes of my Gran, my Mum or Hani for anyone else's.

>282 PaulCranswick: Heh, its just a simple bread recipe, i also know how to make Naan bread, which i burnt my pinkie making (got 2nd degree burn) and now i just so happen to be crying due to breaking my headphones after not even having them a full year

>292 Owltherian: I really like Naan bread, Lily. Chapati too - perfect with a good Indian curry.

>293 PaulCranswick: Naan is easy to make, well as long as you don't burn your fingers making it.

>288 PaulCranswick: I'm glad to hear it! You won't be sorry.

>294 Owltherian: I would sooner keep my fingers safe and watch Hani make it, Lily. Much safer and more tasty for both of us. My comments are not intended as misogynistic merely practical. I make much better drinks than she does and happily take that role.

>295 atozgrl: I will provide feedback here within the week!

All this talk of vegetables and no one has mentioned my favorite: artichokes. Just steam them and dip the leaves in butter and they are divine.

BOOK #37



The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope
Date of Publication : 1875
Origin of Author : UK
Gender of Author : Male
Pages : 776 pp
Challenges : BAC / 150Y Challenge : 38/150

Trollope said that "I by no means look upon the book as one of my failures", which is his understated way of expressing his pride in an ultimately impressive piece of work.

Took some time in inveigle itself in my psyche but the parody of greed and financial impropriety is worth the effort of concentration. The reader is rewarded with memorable characters of dissolution and immorality.

Felix and Melmotte are well drawn and Trollope puts colour into his female characters in a way that Dickens would have been envious of.

Not as easy as The Warden or Barchester Towers but more depth certainly.

>297 amanda4242: I like them Amanda, but they were considered posh when I was younger!

>291 PaulCranswick: As you ponted out, you grew up with good home-cooked food and looked forward to having that in your own household.

>300 booksaplenty1949: I don't think I could have sustained a relationship with a lady whose food I couldn't stomach!

I am another lover of rice pudding! And it was Jacob’s favourite dish when my mother used to cook.

When I was growing up (in the sixties and seventies) the vegetables (excluding salad things) were peas, broad beans (which I hated but everyone else loved), runner beans, parsnips, carrots, cabbage, brussel sprouts, kale, cauliflower, swede, turnip (in stews), beetroot, leeks, onions and potatoes (of course). I’m pretty sure that these were the ones my Mum grew up with as well, as my grandpa did a lot of vegetable growing. No aubergines, squash, broccoli, sweet potatoes or peppers and courgettes (although the last two came in in the seventies in our house).

>302 SandDune: Jacob is a man after my heart. My favourite childhood food bar none.

Runner beans, yes, I should have added them to my list of staples from the time.
For some reason we rarely had parsnips although I presume that they were available. Swedes and turnips I sort of lumped together even though I am aware they are not exactly the same - I am not sure what the difference is. I must admit I was a bit excited when Mediterranean type vegetables such as courgettes, aubergines and peppers became more available.

We occasionally had blue peas which I've not eaten since childhood but on investigation I see are marrowfat peas and used to make 'mushy peas'. I can't remember if what I ate were mushy peas or not, but not something I would ever seek out nowadays.

>304 avatiakh: We would occasionally eat tinned marrowfat peas, Kerry. Not a fan.

>304 avatiakh: Back in the day British grocers sold tins of peas which had been dried and then cooked. In the drying process peas lost colour so dye was added to the cooking water. These were cheaper than tinned fresh peas. Never tried them, I have to say.
PS Maybe we’re talking about the same thing. I looked up “marrowfat peas” and I see that they are ordinary green peas that have been allowed to fully ripen and harden before being harvested.

>306 booksaplenty1949: They sound lovely....not!

>296 PaulCranswick: Yep, i made my father some on fathers day and lets just say my pinkie hurt for the next few days

>297 amanda4242: My dad loves artichokes, me i think they are okay.

>308 Owltherian: Whoever thought making Indian bread was a dangerous occupation?!

>309 Owltherian: They are not my favourite vegetable but I certainly wouldn't push them off my plate.

>303 PaulCranswick: Swedes are much nicer than turnips generally, although little baby turnips are quite nice. Swede is nice as long as it's not watery. Parsnips are a favourite in our house but they have to be roasted. It's funny how many things that are normal just weren't around. I would miss fresh mango if I couldn't get it now I think. I remember having very occasional melon, when I was a child and very very occasional fresh pineapple but definitely no mango.

>310 PaulCranswick: Not many people

I would say they are good and i will eat them, but not always

>248 PaulCranswick: I have several of Nesbit's books here yet to read. I agree with your mild recommendation although I probably enjoyed reading that one for the first time as an adult more than you did :)

>298 PaulCranswick: I really need to get to that one at some point. It has been in the BlackHole for a good long while now.

Happy whatever, Paul!

>311 SandDune: In the frozen North I remember my father thinking he was very advanced because he liked eating bananas!
Roasted parsnips are delightful aren't they?
I also figured I liked swedes better than turnips but I wasn't sure.

>312 Owltherian: I wouldn't go out of my way to buy them but I will happily eat them. That is only because I am not really au fait with how to cook them (Amanda I will pay attention).

>313 alcottacre: To be honest it does take some getting into, Stasia, but once you are there it is pretty compelling.

I love The Railway Children and I think that I will measure all her work against that one.

>314 PaulCranswick: Ive seen my father cook them before, and we have jars of artichoke hearts in the fridge

>316 Owltherian: I was thinking about how to cook the fresh vegetable, Lily, The bottled hearts are apparently fine roasted with some olive oil and then sprinkled with parmesan or feta. (Hani).

>315 PaulCranswick: I have not read The Railway Children so I will have to get it ordered some time. It is unlikely that I will find any of Nesbit's books close to here.

Over 300 posts, and no new thread...hmmm

>317 PaulCranswick: He's also steamed the whole thing, but i think the best part is the heart of it.

>307 PaulCranswick: But cheap and filling. Guess that’s why we associate “mushy peas” with Scotland, home of the deep-fried Mars bar.

>318 alcottacre: I would recommend it for sure, Stasia.

>319 richardderus: Only another day and a half, RD.

>320 Owltherian: I'm not an expert on all types of veggies but I did hear that artichoke hearts are the best part of it.

>321 booksaplenty1949: Yeah the Scots have brought us haggis and oatmeal and whiskey too so I'll allow them the deep fried Mars bars!

>323 PaulCranswick: It does take a lot of work going through all the leaves to get through it though.

>324 Owltherian: Hence why people like to buy them in cans!

>325 PaulCranswick: hah, yep!

Hi Paul. We had visitors from Philadelphia yesterday and they brought some iconic Philly food. Homemade meatballs, Italian rolls and Philly soft pretzels.

>283 PaulCranswick: My plan starting the year was to once again start both my second and third threads on Labour Day - May 1 for European Labour Day, and Sep 1 for North American Labo(u)r Day. I set up my first thread accordingly, with no space for books read in May 2024.

The May thread switch looks like being a bit premature, based on number of posts - I'm only at 161 - so perhaps you could send some of your excess posts my way ;-)

Happy May Day, whatever it means to you. (At least one of my friends is happily celebrating Beltane, and another mentioned Walpurgis Night.)

>284 PaulCranswick: An appreciative *groan* for that little pun.

>297 amanda4242: I'm a huge fan of artichokes & am happy to see someone who understands that butter is the proper dip for the leaves. My wife thinks it's supposed to be mayonnaise (gasp).

>299 PaulCranswick: I'm lucky enough to live near-ish to where they're grown, so they're more of a seasonal treat than an extravagance.

>329 ChrisG1: *whispers*I also enjoy them with mayo.

>329 ChrisG1: Butter is a requirement. I add lemon.

Thanks for visiting my thread! I hope all is well and I will try to get more involved in the next thread.

>326 Owltherian: I must admit though that I have never eaten tinned artichokes.

>327 dianeham: Sounds delicious Diane. I love homemade meatballs especially if the maker is gifted in the culinary arts. Nice to see you able to get to one or two threads, dear lady. I have been thinking quite a lot about you and Michael and pulling for the both of you.

>328 ArlieS: I can certainly guarantee you another post before the month end, Arlie. To be fair many of the group renew their threads at 150 posts so it wouldn't be strange to do so then.
I do celebrate the 1 May especially as we get a Public holiday.

>329 ChrisG1: I actively dislike mayo especially when it is not homemade.

>330 amanda4242: They are extremely expensive here, Amanda.

>331 quondame: I can certainly get the lemon, Susan

>332 witchyrichy: You are most welcome, Karen. It is always a pleasure to see you here.

>333 PaulCranswick: I certainly appreciate it.

>337 dianeham: Thank you, Diane. Your warmth and stoicism has been a feature of the group for me this year. xx

>329 ChrisG1: Ooh! I love artichokes too. Steamed artichokes used to be a rare treat between me and my mom! Butter and lemon is the only proper artichoke dip. What even is mayo with artichokes. Or rice pudding without raisins. So many food heretics here!

>339 justchris: Good wishes from a food heretic.

>339 justchris: >340 PaulCranswick: I maintain that you cannot be heretical on your own thread. Here the truth is that raisins are not good eats.

>340 PaulCranswick: Heh.
>341 quondame: A man's thread is his castle, as it were. I dunno. Paul's theme is war, and food as quasi-religious dispute seems on topic. Guess that makes me the infidel...

>333 PaulCranswick: Neither have i Paul.

>341 quondame: Heretical or not, Susan, I must concede that I do not like raisins.

>342 justchris: This is a place of tolerance, Chris in all things spiritual, bibliographical and gastronomical!

>343 Owltherian: I have just been informed by the lady of the manor that we actually have a tin of artichokes in the house.

>345 PaulCranswick: Oh wow- it really doesn't look that appetizing not fresh, most canned things taste a little weird, it just depends on how long it was canned for.

>346 Owltherian: I didn't check, Lily.

>347 PaulCranswick: Although canned things are way better for apocalypses, if they ever happen lol.

>348 Owltherian: Just have to keep the politicians out of everyone's lives and then we don't have to worry about such things. The world has not felt as dangerous as it does now since I was your age, Lily.

>349 PaulCranswick: The world isn't dangerous, well except if you count the numerous school shootings and such.

>350 Owltherian: The world isn't dangerous? Try telling that to the people of Syria, Yemen, Israel, Gaza, Iraq, Congo, Burma, Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Latin America.

I guess its clear i wasnt thinking when i was typing

>352 Owltherian: No problem, Lily. I sometimes feel unduly safe here in Malaysia.

>353 PaulCranswick: Yeah, Ohio feels safe but i guess that's just me.

There are religious sects that require members to keep a year’s worth of preserved food on hand at all times in case of some sort of quasi-apocalyptic event. I am amusing myself imagining Mr Cranswick hunkered down, supplies running low, debating between the tinned artichoke hearts, no butter on hand, or the big box of raisins.
PS Then eyes light up as the jar of pickled okra is pulled from the back of the shelf.

>344 PaulCranswick: I see the bear I was poking was a teddy bear!

>348 Owltherian: Or twinkies, as the common wisdom says. Actually, I'd rather spend the apocalypse foraging for fresh food. There's a lot of edible stuff all around us. And I do love cooking over fire.

>356 justchris: I would too, and canned food does have an exploration date as well.

Oh my goodness I recently concocted a puff pastry (pizza like dinner) with cut up canned artichokes, green onions, a goat cheese sauce made also with a bit of peppered cream cheese, shallots and sour cream. Cook and eat! It was yummy. I love artichokes! I love this food talk! Hi Paul!

Well, with canned artichokes, one can chop them, mix them with an equal amount of mayonnaise! and grated Parmesan cheese, bake and eat as a dip. It is one of the 3 authorized uses of mayo. It works best with the large flat disc version, but it's the flavor, really.

>354 Owltherian: On most indices, Ohio is regarded as being in the top half when to comes to the safest states to live in the USA.

According to https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/crime-and-corrections/public-sa...

it ranks at #19.

>355 booksaplenty1949: At least I would have enough books to read until the worst of the radiation abates! Must get some of that pickled okra!

>360 PaulCranswick: Oh wow!

>356 justchris: I have always been a Teddy Bear, Chris.

>357 Owltherian: That is a lovely linguistic slip, Lily. It probably should be called an exploration date as you often don't know what you'll find in there.

>362 PaulCranswick: Seems like it, although we have to work on our home crimes, and some have actually happened near me at one of my best friends homes.

>358 mdoris: I was lapping it up, Mary, until you got to sour cream which is a pet hate of mine.

>359 quondame: The mayo would have to be homemade, Susan as the stuff in jars is uniformly disgusting.

>361 Owltherian: Glad you like that.

>363 Owltherian: Actually crime statistics would make us in this part of the world cringe and we probably would be too scared to venture out.

>365 PaulCranswick: Yeah, and i feel bad for my friend because her uncle was killed, and she had to move so i cant really contact her.

>364 PaulCranswick: Best Foods/Hellman's is tolerable. A very slightly tart oily moisture that does better toning down much stronger flavors than displaying itself.

>367 quondame: I will only take mayo, Susan, if the good lady wife makes it fresh for us.

>357 Owltherian: That is a best buy date, not an expiration date. It only means that after that date some of the taste and nutritive value MAY BE less. However, it has by no means expired.

>368 PaulCranswick: I agree Paul, can't eat it any other way!

>369 Tess_W: I think it is "best by", Tess, but otherwise you are right of course. I don't pay a huge amount of notice to those things which I suspect are just as geared to insist upon a larger turnover of goods than on food safety.

>370 Tess_W: We cross posted, Tess, but some things don't go great in jars and, for me, one of those is definitely mayo.

>369 Tess_W: Ahhhh, that makes more sense.

>371 PaulCranswick: It is 'by', of course! We have a store here, called 'Best Buy'......and well you know, I'm claiming brain fog as I taught 102 teenagers today!

Another "only freshly made" thing--is any "cream of soups"....can't stand that jellied stuff in a jar, I make my own with real cream (cream of mushroom, cream of chicken, etc.)

>373 Owltherian: This video considers which canned food can be kept up to thirty years!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGbxTNHtx3M

>374 Tess_W: Gosh, Tess our tastes in certain foods are eerily similar. I would never eat canned creamed soups - I think the taste is deplorable.

>375 PaulCranswick: Oh wow- thats a bit crazy!

>377 Owltherian: Definitely, Lily, I would be comfortable with tinned food after about 5 years. 30 is pushing it a bit.

>378 PaulCranswick: 30 is way too much

>379 Owltherian: It doesn't seem quite as much from the vantage point of my own age!

>380 PaulCranswick: Hah, thats some really old cans for sure

>381 Owltherian: I am indeed

>360 PaulCranswick: When judging safety, I think we should possibly consider all causes of death and injury, not just crime.

>383 ArlieS: I wouldn't disagree with that, Arlie. Even more reason to feel safe here. No tectonic plates converging, no extreme colds, plenty of rainwater to fill our reservoirs, no forest fires, no extreme poverty or malnourishment, slightly high obesity rate from the rich food but manageable and self induced.

I seem to have missed a bit here. Raisins in rice pudding? Different. I could see it with sultanas (I believe they're called 'golden raisins' in the States but they're much juicier and - importantly - seedless), I suppose, but I can see why it would put people off rice pudding. Our school used to serve it with strawberry jam.

I did try cooking artichokes not long ago but, as I'd not really eaten them before, I don't think I prepared them properly and left a lot of the woody 'leaves' on.

>382 PaulCranswick: Wow, and im one of the youngest people on this group, busy but seeming to always be online hah

>385 humouress: I also remember that blob of strawberry jam in the school dinners, Nina. Definitely no raisins.

>386 Owltherian: Age is just a number, Lily, but my number is getting pretty damned bug!

>387 PaulCranswick: Yep, seems like it!