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Douglas Hofstadter's book is concerned directly with the nature of "maps' or links between formal systems. However, according to Hofstadter, the formal system that underlies all mental activity transcends the system that supports it. If life can grow out of the formal chemical substrate of the cell, if consciousness can emerge out of a formal system of firing neurons, then so too will computers attain human intelligence. Gödel, Escher, Bach is a wonderful exploration of fascinating ideas at the heart of cognitive science: meaning, reduction, recursion, and much more… (more)
Zaklog: Cryptonomicon strikes me as the kind of book that Hofstadter would write if he wrote fiction. Both books are complex, with discursive passages on mathematics and a positively weird sense of humor. If you enjoyed (rather than endured) the explanatory sections on cryptography and the charts of Waterhouse's love life (among other, rarely charted things) you should really like this book.… (more)
EerierIdyllMeme: An obvious suggestion (surprised it's not here already). Both are creative and fictional riffing off of formal logic and incompleteness.
heidialice: GEB is a thousand times as intense, but if you enjoyed the parts about self-referentiality it's worth a skim. Conversely, if GEB is just too much, Paulos' concise introduction to the theme is very accessible.
Lorem: Things in 4D I consider a more accessible version of GEB in its breadth and how it does get to complex topics. If you enjoyed the more complicated parts of 4D, definitely look at GEB and if GEB was a little too much, 4D might remind you why math(s) are never boring… (more)
P_S_Patrick: Arturo Perez-Reverte has recieved inspiration for his excellent mystery thriller from Hofstadter's Godel Escher Bach, even without some of the chapter introduciton quotes, that much is clear. He uses the bewildering Escherian theme of worlds within a world, Godels incompleteness theorum is alluded to in the monologue of one character, and Bach is discussed in relevance to the mystery too, along with a few miscellaneous paradoxes which are also slipped in, in a similar spirit in which they permeate the more complex non-fictional work. Non-fiction readers who have enjoyed GEB should be amused by the Flanders panel, and I think they should enjoy it even if they do not often dip into fiction. It would be harder to recommend GEB to fans of the Flanders Panel, due to its sheer length, but if you were intrigued by the themes in the story then it should at least be worth finding GEB in a library and dipping into it.… (more)
Стара мъдрост е, че някои глупости са толкова глупави, че само философ може да се занимава с тях. За безсмислието и откровената идиотщина на 99% от философията сме говорили и друг път, но Дъглас Хофстатър ни хвърля в нови дълбочини на безсмислието с момументалния си труд Гьодел, Ешер, Бах: една гирлянда към безкрайността…
Не, вие всъщност изобщо си нямате идея за какво става дума, затова си мислите, че прекалено злобно се изказвам за книгата. Идея си нямате, ама хич. Това е една огромна тухла, която струва 68 лв. и е пълна с размишленията на някакъв относно логическите връзки между музиката, рисуването и математиката, с цел да обясни живота, вселената и всичко останало. Не се ебавам – книгата представлява над 1000 страници логико-математически еквилибристики, формулки и плоски алгебрични трикчета, от които някак Дъглас Хофстатър извлича мъдростта на живота и намира нов смисъл във вселената , като се занимава… да де, с всичко останало.
Още описанието авторът казва, че книгата е „много личен опит дa paзкaжa кaк cтaвa тaкa, че от неодушевенa мaтеpия може дa cе получaт одушевени нещa„, което отдалеч намирисва на мистицизъм и окултизъм тип Кант и Хегел, а съдържанието тип „фуги и кaнони, логикa и иcтинa, геометpия, pекуpcия, cинтaктични cтpуктуpи, еcтеcтвото нa знaчението, дзен будизъм, пapaдокcи, мозък и paзум, pедукционизъм и xолизъм, колонии от мpaвки, понятия и ментaлни pепpезентaции, пpевод, компютpи и теxните езици, ДHК, белтъци, генетичният код, изкуcтвен интелект, твоpчеcки cпоcобноcти, cъзнaние и cвободнa воля“ показва много ясно за какъв безподобен гювеч от глупости става дума. ( )
I have been reading this book, a bite at a time, for more than four years. I'm quite nearly through it now, and I think I may mourn when I read the last pages.
I can wholeheartedly recommend this if you are a fan of Dan Dennett's work, of Zen koans, or of other writing which addresses questions wrongly asked. GEB masterfully breaks down common (or at least, my) preconceptions about abstraction and consciousness. ( )
A very dense book that still manages to have a sense of whimsy and humor. Best absorbed in chunks and then read again at a later date. And then yet again. You will certainly have your share of "homework" to do to get the most out of GEB.
At the risk of sounding snobbish, I have to wonder how accessible GEB is to those, even readers of other books on philosophy, who do not have at least some grounding in the diverse subject matter. While Hofstadter's enthusiasm for the material is infectious, the math alone in this book can be an exercise in frustration.
Still, the intersection of complex math, music, and art is hardly unheard of. GEB is less a book that you stumble upon, and more one that is passed down to you by a mentor or friend. An heirloom, in many ways.
Full of lively discussions about patterns, language, loops, paradoxes, systems, AI, the nature of consciousness... primarily using examples of mathematician Godel, artist M.C. Escher, and composer J.S.Bach, but also dipping into greek philosophy, Zen Buddhism, computer programming, and more.
Ultimately, recommended if you enjoy just... thinking about thinking. ( )
I started reading this book almost simultaneously with my application for an Artificial Intelligence master at my University. Honestly, I got a little frustrated with the one-sided approach to AI that I read about, the premise always seems to be 'artificial intelligence'=='machine learning'. So I was entirely happy during my read of this book. It gave me a playful introduction and a new look into first-order logic, a subject in which I was already pretty invested, as well as an endless supply of inspiration on which to draw in my further AI adventures. I loved this book for it and I cannot believe that no-one in my first few explorations with AI told me to stop what I was doing and read this tome first.
I did have some issues with the book. While I loved the first few dialoges and I was thoroughly impressed with the underlying themes of the dialogs, they did become somewhat stale and forced after a few of them. Also, the constant meta-ness that Hofstadter supplies is very interesting and part of what makes the book great, but at some times this also seemed a little forced and it undermined the credability of the story just a little.
Even so, writing (and reading for that matter) this book has been an amazing feat and I cannot imagine that I will not read it again some time and take even more insight away from it. This book should be mandatory reading for anyone doing something or another in the field of AI, or conciousness or anything related. ( )
Frederick the Great, King of Prussia, came to power in 1740. • • Introduction
One of the most central notions in this book is that of a formal system. • • Chapter 1 - The MU-puzzle
Quotations
In its absolute barest form, Gödel's discovery involves the translation of an ancient paradox in philosophy into mathematical terms. That paradox is the so-called Epimenides paradox, or liar paradox. Epimenides was a Cretan who made one immortal statement: “All Cretans are liars.”
Whereas the Epimenides statement creates a paradox since it is neither true nor false, the Gödel sentence G is unprovable (inside P.M.) but true. The grand conclusion? That the system of Principia Mathematica is “incomplete”—there are true statements of number theory which its methods of proof are too weak to demonstrate.
Last words
Tortoise: Reentering Introduction Creates Endlessly Rising Canon, After RICERCAR.
Douglas Hofstadter's book is concerned directly with the nature of "maps' or links between formal systems. However, according to Hofstadter, the formal system that underlies all mental activity transcends the system that supports it. If life can grow out of the formal chemical substrate of the cell, if consciousness can emerge out of a formal system of firing neurons, then so too will computers attain human intelligence. Gödel, Escher, Bach is a wonderful exploration of fascinating ideas at the heart of cognitive science: meaning, reduction, recursion, and much more
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Il libro che ha svelato a una immensa quantità di lettori, in tutto il mondo, gli incanti e le trappole di un’Eterna Ghirlanda Brillante i cui fili si chiamano intelligenza artificiale, macchina di Turing, teorema di Gödel. Una «fuga metaforica» nel variegato mondo che si dispiega fra la mente, il cervello e i computer.
«Ogni due o tre decenni un autore ignoto produce un libro di tale profondità, chiarezza, vastità, acume, bellezza e originalità che subito esso viene riconosciuto come un avvenimento di prima importanza: Gödel, Escher, Bach è un’opera di tal genere… La struttura di questo libro è satura di complicato contrappunto non meno di una composizione di Bach o dell’Ulisse di Joyce»
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Godel, Escher, Bach
Wikipedia in English (24)
Не, вие всъщност изобщо си нямате идея за какво става дума, затова си мислите, че прекалено злобно се изказвам за книгата. Идея си нямате, ама хич. Това е една огромна тухла, която струва 68 лв. и е пълна с размишленията на някакъв относно логическите връзки между музиката, рисуването и математиката, с цел да обясни живота, вселената и всичко останало. Не се ебавам – книгата представлява над 1000 страници логико-математически еквилибристики, формулки и плоски алгебрични трикчета, от които някак Дъглас Хофстатър извлича мъдростта на живота и намира нов смисъл във вселената , като се занимава… да де, с всичко останало.
Още описанието авторът казва, че книгата е „много личен опит дa paзкaжa кaк cтaвa тaкa, че от неодушевенa мaтеpия може дa cе получaт одушевени нещa„, което отдалеч намирисва на мистицизъм и окултизъм тип Кант и Хегел, а съдържанието тип „фуги и кaнони, логикa и иcтинa, геометpия, pекуpcия, cинтaктични cтpуктуpи, еcтеcтвото нa знaчението, дзен будизъм, пapaдокcи, мозък и paзум, pедукционизъм и xолизъм, колонии от мpaвки, понятия и ментaлни pепpезентaции, пpевод, компютpи и теxните езици, ДHК, белтъци, генетичният код, изкуcтвен интелект, твоpчеcки cпоcобноcти, cъзнaние и cвободнa воля“ показва много ясно за какъв безподобен гювеч от глупости става дума. (