Wikidata:Property proposal/descriptive solubility

descriptive solubility

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

   Done: descriptive solubility (P8459) (Talk and documentation)

Description	(qualifier) term used to describe level of solubility, if an exact value is not available
Represents	solubility (Q170731)
Data type	Item
Domain	Q79529
Allowed values	set of new items: practically insoluble (Q87723625), very slightly soluble (Q87723632), slightly soluble (Q87723634), sparingly soluble (Q87723647), soluble (Q87723650), freely soluble (Q87723654), very soluble (Q87723656), miscible (Q87723658), reacts with a solvent (Q87723660)
Example 1	cetyl alcohol (Q161632) → somevalue with qualifier descriptive solubility = very soluble (Q87723656), solvent (P2178) = diethyl ether (Q202218), temperature (P2076) = somevalue
Example 2	benzyl alcohol (Q52353) → somevalue with qualifier descriptive solubility = soluble (Q87723650), solvent (P2178) = ethanol (Q153), temperature (P2076) = somevalue
Example 3	allyl alcohol (Q414553) → somevalue with qualifier descriptive solubility = miscible (Q87723658), solvent (P2178) = ethanol (Q153), temperature (P2076) = somevalue
Source	academic books, scientific articles, chemical databases
See also	solubility (P2177), solvent (P2178)

Motivation

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Hugo
Samuel Clark
Tris T7
Leiem
Christianhauck
SCIdude
Binter
Photocyte
Robert Giessmann
Cord Wiljes
Adriano Rutz
Jonathan Bisson
GrndStt
Ameisenigel
Charles Tapley Hoyt
ChemHobby
Peter Murray-Rust
Erfurth
TiagoLubiana
NadirSH
Matthias M.
S8321414
Peter F. Patel-Schneider

Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

• See also comments in Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/35#P2178.

In some cases there is no exact value of solubility in the reference, but a mere description. There are a few reasons for this qualifier:

• sometimes we don't have an exact value of solubility available (probably it is available in general, but we don't have time or resources to find it); however, the information if substance A is soluble in substance B — even without an exact value — may be important, even to quickly find out in which solvents the substance can dissolve, and then look for value for a specific solvent
• right now we don't have a way to tell that substance is practically insoluble – many sources state that substance is insoluble/practically insoluble without giving any value
• also, we don't have a way to tell that substance is miscible in other substance

This proposal is to create a qualifier for existing solubility (P2177), used only if there is no exact value for solubility of a specific substance in a specific solvent in WD. Such statement should be modified accordingly if someone have a source with value for this solvent – that means this qualifier in many cases should be used temporarily. This qualifier is meant to be item-datatype with only a few allowed values which would prevent from adding ambiguous comments.

1. proposal

new qualifier descriptive solubility as proposed above

solubility	somevalue edit solvent diethyl ether descriptive solubility very soluble temperature somevalue 2 references stated in CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (97th edition) page(s) 3-294 add reference
		add value

2. proposal

using sourcing circumstances (P1480)/nature of statement (P5102)

solubility	somevalue edit solvent diethyl ether sourcing circumstances/nature of statement very soluble temperature somevalue 2 references stated in CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (97th edition) page(s) 3-294 add reference
		add value

3. proposal (proposed by ArthurPSmith below)

using object named as (P1932) (see example below or example in Q312244)

solubility	somevalue edit solvent diethyl ether object named as (P1932) very soluble temperature somevalue 2 references stated in CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (97th edition) page(s) 3-294 add reference
		add value

However, object named as (P1932) is string-datatype, so it wouldn't be possible to use items like practically insoluble (Q87723625), only term in the source language. EDIT: Proposal #3 added: Wostr (talk) 23:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

---

But I'm not sure that this would be better, to use general qualifiers to such specific situation. Wostr (talk) 16:20, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

maybe object named as (P1932) with a string value could be used for this purpose? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's could be another option to achieve the same. Thanks for that. Wostr (talk) 21:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

• Arthur's "solution" sounds soluble to me. --99of9 (talk) 11:02, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

 Support sounds like a reasonable proposal to me. Of course, ideally we have exact data, but I think this is indeed quite useful. --Egon Willighagen (talk) 08:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

 Support This will be very useful for working chemists. Walkerma (talk) 20:43, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@Egon Willighagen, Walkerma: thanks for participating in this discussion; could you elaborate – are you supporting the creation of a new property or the method proposed by ArthurPSmith? Wostr (talk) 22:38, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Wostr: Mainly I'd like to see a way to include an inexact solubility in some way. I think #1 is the clearest, but if we are trying not to create new qualifiers then #3 seems OK. I found use of P805 (see below) rather a confusing solution, but I'm quite inexperienced on Wikidata so that may just be me. Walkerma (talk) 02:50, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Wostr, Walkerma: I also don't understand the P805 proposal below. I guess I can see the usefulness of having an item value for this property, so I'm not strongly pushing for my approach (#3 above now). ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:09, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

•  Oppose I think using statement is subject of (P805) as qualifier is the right way:

solubility	somevalue edit solvent diethyl ether statement is subject of very soluble temperature somevalue 2 references stated in CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (97th edition) page(s) 3-294 add reference
		add value

--Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 06:07, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

No - the "subject of the statement" is "solubility of cetyl alcohol in ethyl ether" which does not have an item.--GZWDer (talk) 16:42, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

• On second thought, I'll  Support a property like this that could work for any physical quantity, not just solubility. The property could be called 'quantity in scale' or 'descriptive quantity'. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 00:27, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

  @Wostr: what do you think about Tinker Bell thought? Would a "generic property" ("quantity in scale" or "descriptive quantity") satisfy you? Pamputt (talk) 21:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

  Pamputt, I have no opinion on this, I don't know if a more general qualifier would be useful in other situations; maybe you should ask other participants of this discussion. Wostr (talk) 01:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

  @ArthurPSmith, 99of9, Egon Willighagen, Walkerma: what do you think about Tinker Bell's proposal? Pamputt (talk) 11:19, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

  @Pamputt: "descriptive quantity" sounds good to me.  Support ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:18, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

  That change would make the number of possible values endless and one-of-constraints impossible or impractical. It's somewhat similar to Wikidata:Property proposal/quantification instruction --- Jura 20:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

• interesting approach.  Support --- Jura 11:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

@Wostr, ArthurPSmith, 99of9, Egon Willighagen, Walkerma, Jura1: finally, I've created descriptive solubility (P8459) in order to be able to apply strict constrains. Pamputt (talk) 10:49, 18 July 2020 (UTC)